Australian Politics Forum - Religion: force for good or evil?

Mr Hammer

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Re: Religion: force for good or evil?
Reply #45 - Dec 5^th, 2016 at 2:06pm

Governments love religion because it keeps people on the straight and narrow. Atheists realise it doesn't matter what you do, you won't be judged in the afterlife. It makes one more free thinking. Personally I'm a non believer but if religion is kept personal and doesn't have issues and don't care. When it becomes a problem I'd rather it gone.

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Mr Hammer

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Re: Religion: force for good or evil?
Reply #46 - Dec 5^th, 2016 at 2:07pm

John Smith wrote on Dec 5^th, 2016 at 2:03pm:

Postmodern Trendoid III wrote on Dec 5^th, 2016 at 2:00pm:

those in power are bad because they have power

No one said those in power are bad ... some are, some aren't , but that's irrelevant anyway. Those in power (within the church) only have power because they have found a way through the use of religion to manipulate people .

What about in Islam?

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Postmodern Trendoid III

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Re: Religion: force for good or evil?
Reply #47 - Dec 5^th, 2016 at 2:10pm

John Smith wrote on Dec 5^th, 2016 at 2:03pm:

Postmodern Trendoid III wrote on Dec 5^th, 2016 at 2:00pm:

those in power are bad because they have power

No one said those in power are bad ... some are, some aren't , but that's irrelevant anyway. Those in power (within the church) only have power because they have found a way through the use of religion to manipulate people .

Okay, so now they're bad because they manipulate. Kind of like university lecturers, politicians, opinion makers, columnists, socialists, greenies, and "progressives" who manipulate by omitting alternative perspectives. Gothcha.

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Gnads

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Re: Religion: force for good or evil?
Reply #48 - Dec 5^th, 2016 at 2:48pm

John Smith wrote on Dec 5^th, 2016 at 9:48am:

Mistress Nicole wrote on Dec 5^th, 2016 at 9:45am:

Private schools are run more like businesses. Teachers are paid more in private schools, so you get a better cut of teacher.

rubbish ..... every study ever done shows there is little to no difference in the level of education kids experience between public and private education. The ONLY real advantage one gains from private schools is the circle of friends their kids surround themselves with. Societies business leaders generally send their kids to private schools, and as those kids grow up they take over their families businesses .... it makes for good contacts later in life when you need a job.

Correct Smithy. Many non religious people send their children to private run and or religious schools ...

not for the better education ... because they don't get any better education

but because they think this puts their kids on the ladder of social climbing wannabes .....

funny thing is there are just as many drop outs or students doing drugs, being sexually active, bullying etc etc

and in fact I'd say some of the biggest ratbag boys & promiscuous females went to private Catholic Schools.

As far as the quality of teachers & the pay they receive .... they don't get paid anymore ....

that's totally agin the private business mantra.

Their motto is pay less work more hours.

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"When you are dead, you do not know you are dead. It's only painful and difficult for others. The same applies when you are stupid." ~ Ricky Gervais

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NorthOfNorth

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Re: Religion: force for good or evil?
Reply #49 - Dec 5^th, 2016 at 2:55pm

Postmodern Trendoid III wrote on Dec 5^th, 2016 at 12:04pm:

Valkie wrote on Dec 5^th, 2016 at 11:55am:

There are two religions that have caused more problems, more hatred, more death and more torment than anything since the dawn of time.

The worship of MONEY

The worship of POWER

I'd say the biggest killer of the modern era (since the French Revolution) has been the idea of equality. Millions killed, jailed, exiled. French Revolution, all socialist revolutions - Soviet Union, Cambodia, China, Cuba, South America, Vietnam ...

But then again, from that same ideology, many more millions elevated above their ancestral caste and out of poverty...

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Conviction is the art of being certain

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Yadda

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Re: Religion: force for good or evil?
Reply #50 - Dec 5^th, 2016 at 3:51pm

Raven wrote on Dec 5^th, 2016 at 10:38am:

To quote an old friend

A good man will always try to do good and an evil man will always aspire to evil.

There is [among many men and women who 'believe'], a common misconception about our creator, the God of the Bible.

And that misconception is that God, our creator, intends to forgive every man and woman,
...'coz we are only human'.

THAT, is not his purpose.

His purpose for mankind has been plainly stated, ....again, and again, and again.

Matthew 12:35
A good man out of the good treasure of the heart bringeth forth good things: and an evil man out of the evil treasure bringeth forth evil things.

Matthew 12:33
Either make the tree good, and his fruit good; or else make the tree corrupt, and his fruit corrupt: for the tree is known by his fruit.

Matthew 7:19
Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.

.

Isaiah 48:10
Behold, I have refined thee, but not with silver; I have chosen thee in the furnace of affliction.

Daniel 12:10
Many shall be purified, and made white, and tried; but the wicked shall do wickedly: and none of the wicked shall understand; but the wise shall understand.

Revelation 21:7
He that overcometh shall inherit all things; and I will be his God, and he shall be my son.
8 But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.

.

Raven wrote on Dec 5^th, 2016 at 10:38am:

But to make a good man do evil things, all that takes religion.

No Raven.

Just an inherent HATRED for truth.

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« Last Edit: Dec 5^th, 2016 at 4:50pm by Yadda »

"....And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead."
Luke 16:31

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aquascoot

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Re: Religion: force for good or evil?
Reply #51 - Dec 5^th, 2016 at 3:57pm

the most important thing in life is to have some "purpose in life", some "passion", some "north star".

Then you can easily align all your thoughts words and actions with this purpose.

If they help you towards the north star, they are in. if they dont, they are out.

Too many people are just in a fog, they are in an emotional soup where they are either just trying to pleasure themselves or to cope...both are leading to a personal disaster.

Having a set purpose gets rid of the 3 main "fatigues " which destroy peoples happiness and beat them down.

1 decision making fatigue... going round in circles if you dont have a purpose
2 persona fatigue...managing an impression , seeking validation, people pleasing, supplicating
3 outcome fatigue...getting all butt-hirt when things dont go your way.

If you have a direction in life, (if you know it very well), you wont waste time on these "handbrakes".

So for some people, an "off the shelf" religious belief will give them direction. They will be happier, achieve more and it will help them move up.
Its not neccessary for all people but a lot of people in the Durrrr state of taker mentality and mediocrity would do well to pick a religion, any religion and try to have a bigger view of the world then their own "pleasure" and "coping"

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Yadda

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Re: Religion: force for good or evil?
Reply #52 - Dec 5^th, 2016 at 4:07pm

Postmodern Trendoid III wrote on Dec 5^th, 2016 at 12:04pm:

Valkie wrote on Dec 5^th, 2016 at 11:55am:

There are two religions that have caused more problems, more hatred, more death and more torment than anything since the dawn of time.

The worship of MONEY

The worship of POWER

I'd say the biggest killer of the modern era (since the French Revolution) has been the idea of equality.

Millions killed, jailed, exiled.

French Revolution, all socialist revolutions - Soviet Union, Cambodia, China, Cuba, South America, Vietnam ...

Comment.....

Yadda said....
http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1458861531/0#0
Quote:

The lesson(s) of the original, French Revolution of !!

Our recent history is, a cautionary tale!

'What is old, is new again.' ....or can be!!

When we look at the justifications given by the French Revolutionaries [for their ruthless political violence], .....we can say with some confidence, imo, that the French Revolution, was probably the first significant public 'outing' [exposure ???] of the 'virtues' and of the 'high moral purpose', of rampant atheists, political progressives, and leftists [i.e. in the French Revolutionaries] !

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"....And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead."
Luke 16:31

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John Smith

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Re: Religion: force for good or evil?
Reply #53 - Dec 5^th, 2016 at 4:14pm

Postmodern Trendoid III wrote on Dec 5^th, 2016 at 2:10pm:

John Smith wrote on Dec 5^th, 2016 at 2:03pm:

Postmodern Trendoid III wrote on Dec 5^th, 2016 at 2:00pm:

those in power are bad because they have power

No one said those in power are bad ... some are, some aren't , but that's irrelevant anyway. Those in power (within the church) only have power because they have found a way through the use of religion to manipulate people .

Okay, so now they're bad because they manipulate. Kind of like university lecturers, politicians, opinion makers, columnists, socialists, greenies, and "progressives" who manipulate by omitting alternative perspectives. Gothcha.

except you're the only one going on about them being bad. Cheesy

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Our esteemed leader:
I hope that bitch who was running their brothels for them gets raped with a cactus.

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Yadda

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Re: Religion: force for good or evil?
Reply #54 - Dec 5^th, 2016 at 4:15pm

John Smith wrote on Dec 5^th, 2016 at 2:03pm:

Postmodern Trendoid III wrote on Dec 5^th, 2016 at 2:00pm:

those in power are bad because they have power

No one said those in power are bad ... some are, some aren't , but that's irrelevant anyway. Those in power (within the church) only have power because they have found a way through the use of religion to manipulate people .

"....have found a way through the use of religion to manipulate people."

Or through the use of 'philosophy' and political argument. ......i.e. deceivers, using words, to deceive others.

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"....And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead."
Luke 16:31

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John Smith Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 72425 Gender:	Re: Religion: force for good or evil? Reply #55 - Dec 5^th, 2016 at 4:20pm Yadda wrote on Dec 5^th, 2016 at 4:15pm: Or through the use of 'philosophy' and political argument. no, I'll stick to religion .
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Yadda

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Re: Religion: force for good or evil?
Reply #56 - Dec 5^th, 2016 at 4:24pm

aquascoot wrote on Dec 5^th, 2016 at 3:57pm:

the most important thing in life is to have some "purpose in life", some "passion", some "north star".

Then you can easily align all your thoughts words and actions with this purpose.

If they help you towards the north star, they are in. if they dont, they are out.

Too many people are just in a fog, they are in an emotional soup where they are either just trying to pleasure themselves or to cope...both are leading to a personal disaster.

Having a set purpose gets rid of the 3 main "fatigues " which destroy peoples happiness and beat them down.

1 decision making fatigue... going round in circles if you dont have a purpose
2 persona fatigue...managing an impression , seeking validation, people pleasing, supplicating
3 outcome fatigue...getting all butt-hirt when things dont go your way.

If you have a direction in life, (if you know it very well), you wont waste time on these "handbrakes".

So for some people, an "off the shelf" religious belief will give them direction. They will be happier, achieve more and it will help them move up.
Its not neccessary for all people but a lot of people in the Durrrr state of taker mentality and mediocrity would do well to pick a religion, any religion and try to have a bigger view of the world then their own "pleasure" and "coping"

Good post aquascoot.

I've found my "purpose in life". Wink

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"....And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead."
Luke 16:31

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Yadda Gold Member Offline Posts: 20992 A cat with a view	Re: Religion: force for good or evil? Reply #57 - Dec 5^th, 2016 at 4:28pm John Smith wrote on Dec 5^th, 2016 at 4:20pm: Yadda wrote on Dec 5^th, 2016 at 4:15pm: Or through the use of 'philosophy' and political argument. no, I'll stick to [blaming] religion . John_Smith, You [and those like you] live in, and experience, such a small 'universe', imo. And that is your choice.
Back to top	"....And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead." Luke 16:31 IP Logged

longweekend58

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Re: Religion: force for good or evil?
Reply #58 - Dec 5^th, 2016 at 4:57pm

Lord Herbert wrote on Dec 5^th, 2016 at 9:35am:

John Smith wrote on Dec 5^th, 2016 at 9:30am:

Religion developed as a way to control the masses. From witch doctors, to voodoo priests, to catholicism and Islam, it was all about controlling the masses and giving authority to someone who was to weak to take that authority by force (as was the way leaders were chosen in the old days).

It is still about controlling the masses.

Longy's church managed to sucker $500,000 in donations from the laity from which they could skim a goodly amount off the top for their own institutional sustainability whilst at the same time receiving annual 'grants' from the government to the tune of millions.

When you resort to simply making up crap, what do you think you look like? COmplete tosser? loser? liar? simpleton?

It takes a special kind of retard to criticise people who raise a half million dollars for World Vision, Kids with Cancer and Cambodian kids.

And let me guess... your total outlay for the poor and hurting is... $0?

hypocrite.

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AUSSIE: "Speaking for myself, I could not care less about 298 human beings having their life snuffed out in a nano-second, or what impact that loss has on Members of their family, their parents..."

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Mistress Nicole

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Re: Religion: force for good or evil?
Reply #59 - Dec 5^th, 2016 at 4:58pm

NorthOfNorth wrote on Dec 5^th, 2016 at 11:30am:

Mistress Nicole wrote on Dec 5^th, 2016 at 11:19am:

NorthOfNorth wrote on Dec 5^th, 2016 at 11:05am:

Mistress Nicole wrote on Dec 5^th, 2016 at 10:56am:

I've never actually spoken to my son about his religion or lack thereof. His father is trying to raise him to be a good Lutheran - I don't want to split the boy apart.

But I'm teaching him to think for himself. It's the best antidote to religion you can get.

So you send him to a religious school because of his relationship with father then covertly teach him to reject the principle upon which the school is founded ?

Don't you think that's dishonest (not to mention hypocritical) ?

Wow you put a lot of words in my mouth. I do not send him to a private religious school because of his relationship with his father. I send him there because it gives him the best education my money can buy. Please don't ask me to explain that to you a third time.

Teaching him to think for himself, question everything, and explore issues from all angles is neither dishonest or covert, unless free thinkers worry you?

You mentioned his father (in reference to religion). That possibly implied (by way of Freudian slip) that religion may have been part your decision to send him there.

I'm more than OK with free thinking... I don't hold religious beliefs myself but I would say that I'm culturally of Irish/European Catholic descent and - by inheritance - sensibility.

But I would say that to send someone to an institution whose philosophy and beliefs I could not tolerate would, for me, be an act of hypocrisy... As hypocritical as sending them to an Islamic school.

Big difference between chapel once-a-fortnight Anglican light, and Islam. They're miles apart. There should be no Islamic schools allowed in Australia.

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