Australian Politics Forum - Religion: force for good or evil?

longweekend58

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Re: Religion: force for good or evil?
Reply #60 - Dec 5^th, 2016 at 4:59pm

Mistress Nicole wrote on Dec 5^th, 2016 at 9:45am:

NorthOfNorth wrote on Dec 5^th, 2016 at 8:03am:

Mistress Nicole wrote on Dec 5^th, 2016 at 5:41am:

I send my son to a private Anglican school. Not for the religion, but because it provides a solid education.

Ironically you may have answered your own question...

Ask yourself (and post back) What is it about the religious school that you believe provides your son a solid education over that which can be provided by a secular one?

I marched myself on tours through several public schools. Then I took a look at two private schools. By comparison, the public schools were like zoos. I take it from your question that this is due to the chapel my son attends on a fort nightly basis?

You may be right, but that's not my view. My view is as follows:

Private schools are run more like businesses. Teachers are paid more in private schools, so you get a better cut of teacher. Private schools need to maintain enrolments. Parents don't fork out big bucks to schools that don't perform. This means that teachers who don't cut the mustard will be sacked - something that simply doesn't happen in government schools. And because private schools need to entice parents to pay, things like NAPLAN tests are taken seriously. So are Year 12 results.

So, because user pays, a lot of government fat, burecracy, and ineptitude is scuttled. Private schools are employed by parents to do a job - educate.

I fork out $14,000 per year. I expect my pound of flesh. The school works for me. That's the deal.

My point is that while you rail against religion, the best schools in the land are run by the Church and the worst by the secular government. You might even ask why and then maybe you will answer your own questions. And why didnt you choose a SECULAR private school? We both know the reason for that.

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AUSSIE: "Speaking for myself, I could not care less about 298 human beings having their life snuffed out in a nano-second, or what impact that loss has on Members of their family, their parents..."

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longweekend58

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Re: Religion: force for good or evil?
Reply #61 - Dec 5^th, 2016 at 5:00pm

John Smith wrote on Dec 5^th, 2016 at 9:48am:

Mistress Nicole wrote on Dec 5^th, 2016 at 9:45am:

Private schools are run more like businesses. Teachers are paid more in private schools, so you get a better cut of teacher.

rubbish ..... every study ever done shows there is little to no difference in the level of education kids experience between public and private education. The ONLY real advantage one gains from private schools is the circle of friends their kids surround themselves with. Societies business leaders generally send their kids to private schools, and as those kids grow up they take over their families businesses .... it makes for good contacts later in life when you need a job.

And yet you cannot find links to credible studies that confirm this. The fact that a significant majority of those that qualify for university entry are privately educated hasnt clued you in.

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AUSSIE: "Speaking for myself, I could not care less about 298 human beings having their life snuffed out in a nano-second, or what impact that loss has on Members of their family, their parents..."

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NorthOfNorth

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Re: Religion: force for good or evil?
Reply #62 - Dec 5^th, 2016 at 5:04pm

longweekend58 wrote on Dec 5^th, 2016 at 4:59pm:

My point is that while you rail against religion, the best schools in the land are run by the Church and the worst by the secular government. You might even ask why and then maybe you will answer your own questions. And why didnt you choose a SECULAR private school? We both know the reason for that.

Moreover, it seems grossly unfair in its arrogance towards those educators, to presume that the quality of the education they provide is not maintained and enhanced as a direct result of their faith.

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Conviction is the art of being certain

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Lord Herbert Gold Member Offline Posts: 34441 Gender:	Re: Religion: force for good or evil? Reply #63 - Dec 5^th, 2016 at 5:04pm Mistress Nicole wrote on Dec 5^th, 2016 at 4:58pm: Big difference between chapel once-a-fortnight Anglican light, and Islam. They're miles apart. There should be no Islamic schools allowed in Australia. x2
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Gordon

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Re: Religion: force for good or evil?
Reply #64 - Dec 5^th, 2016 at 5:04pm

Mistress Nicole wrote on Dec 5^th, 2016 at 4:58pm:

NorthOfNorth wrote on Dec 5^th, 2016 at 11:30am:

Mistress Nicole wrote on Dec 5^th, 2016 at 11:19am:

NorthOfNorth wrote on Dec 5^th, 2016 at 11:05am:

Mistress Nicole wrote on Dec 5^th, 2016 at 10:56am:

I've never actually spoken to my son about his religion or lack thereof. His father is trying to raise him to be a good Lutheran - I don't want to split the boy apart.

But I'm teaching him to think for himself. It's the best antidote to religion you can get.

So you send him to a religious school because of his relationship with father then covertly teach him to reject the principle upon which the school is founded ?

Don't you think that's dishonest (not to mention hypocritical) ?

Wow you put a lot of words in my mouth. I do not send him to a private religious school because of his relationship with his father. I send him there because it gives him the best education my money can buy. Please don't ask me to explain that to you a third time.

Teaching him to think for himself, question everything, and explore issues from all angles is neither dishonest or covert, unless free thinkers worry you?

You mentioned his father (in reference to religion). That possibly implied (by way of Freudian slip) that religion may have been part your decision to send him there.

I'm more than OK with free thinking... I don't hold religious beliefs myself but I would say that I'm culturally of Irish/European Catholic descent and - by inheritance - sensibility.

But I would say that to send someone to an institution whose philosophy and beliefs I could not tolerate would, for me, be an act of hypocrisy... As hypocritical as sending them to an Islamic school.

Big difference between chapel once-a-fortnight Anglican light, and Islam. They're miles apart. There should be no Islamic schools allowed in Australia.

In principle I'm ok with Islamic schools, but then I read stuff like this and take the same opinion as you.

Educated at Islamic schools, Bee says she was taught not to mix with other Australian children.

“It was very religious. It did not feel like I lived in Australia at all," she remembers.

"Every child there was also Arab or from a Muslim background. The day started with praying, it ended with praying. We had Islamic classes as well. It was very religious based, I guess. Even the teachers spoke Arabic to us. They wore the scarf. It just really didn't feel like it was in Australia at all."
http://www.abc.net.au/triplej/programs/hack/escaping-child-marriage-in-western-s...

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longweekend58

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Re: Religion: force for good or evil?
Reply #65 - Dec 5^th, 2016 at 5:05pm

It's funny/sad that the loudest voices on a thread about Church and Christian Schools are mainly people who have no connection with either - ever. Most of the 'claims' made here are manifest nonsense but happily accepted by the remaining buffoons because they dont know it is nonsense and it supports their own preconceptions.

Its not a good look for most of you to parade your ignorance and narrow-minded thinking as some kind of virtue.

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AUSSIE: "Speaking for myself, I could not care less about 298 human beings having their life snuffed out in a nano-second, or what impact that loss has on Members of their family, their parents..."

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miketrees

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Re: Religion: force for good or evil?
Reply #66 - Dec 5^th, 2016 at 5:07pm

The fact that a significant majority of those that qualify for university entry are privately educated hasnt clued you in.

I cant be arsed finding it but there is a study somewhere that shows once in UNI the private school leavers do not do as well as the publicly educated students.

Probably because they are like hothouse flowers put out in the cold

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Aussie Gold Member Offline OzPolitic Posts: 37683 Gender:	Re: Religion: force for good or evil? Reply #67 - Dec 5^th, 2016 at 5:11pm Lord Herbert wrote on Dec 5^th, 2016 at 5:04pm: Mistress Nicole wrote on Dec 5^th, 2016 at 4:58pm: Big difference between chapel once-a-fortnight Anglican light, and Islam. They're miles apart. There should be no Islamic schools allowed in Australia. x2 - 4.
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Lord Herbert

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Re: Religion: force for good or evil?
Reply #68 - Dec 5^th, 2016 at 5:13pm

longweekend58 wrote on Dec 5^th, 2016 at 5:00pm:

The fact that a significant majority of those that qualify for university entry are privately educated hasn't clued you in.

This could simply mean nothing more than that the children of parents who can afford to pay the fees demanded, are mostly professionals who passed on a better set of genes to their kids - and has nothing to do with the quality of education they received at a private school.

I myself went to a very expensive private school but ended up nothing more than a factory worker.

Go figure.

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Lord Herbert Gold Member Offline Posts: 34441 Gender:	Re: Religion: force for good or evil? Reply #69 - Dec 5^th, 2016 at 5:13pm Aussie wrote on Dec 5^th, 2016 at 5:11pm: Lord Herbert wrote on Dec 5^th, 2016 at 5:04pm: Mistress Nicole wrote on Dec 5^th, 2016 at 4:58pm: Big difference between chapel once-a-fortnight Anglican light, and Islam. They're miles apart. There should be no Islamic schools allowed in Australia. x2 - 4. + 5
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Lord Herbert

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Re: Religion: force for good or evil?
Reply #70 - Dec 5^th, 2016 at 5:16pm

miketrees wrote on Dec 5^th, 2016 at 5:07pm:

The fact that a significant majority of those that qualify for university entry are privately educated hasnt clued you in.

I cant be arsed finding it but there is a study somewhere that shows once in UNI the private school leavers do not do as well as the publicly educated students.

Probably because they are like hothouse flowers put out in the cold

Good one.

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Aussie

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Re: Religion: force for good or evil?
Reply #71 - Dec 5^th, 2016 at 5:18pm

Lord Herbert wrote on Dec 5^th, 2016 at 5:13pm:

Aussie wrote on Dec 5^th, 2016 at 5:11pm:

Lord Herbert wrote on Dec 5^th, 2016 at 5:04pm:

Mistress Nicole wrote on Dec 5^th, 2016 at 4:58pm:

Big difference between chapel once-a-fortnight Anglican light, and Islam. They're miles apart. There should be no Islamic schools allowed in Australia.

x2

- 4.

+ 5

Best thing you and Nicole Page 2016 can do for the entire Forum is get a Room and work it out. The sycophancy is just spewish.

Blah!

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Ajax

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Re: Religion: force for good or evil?
Reply #72 - Dec 5^th, 2016 at 5:20pm

Mistress Nicole wrote on Dec 5^th, 2016 at 5:41am:

I was raised a heathen.

I send my son to a private Anglican school. Not for the religion, but because it provides a solid education.

Personally, I am an agnostic. And I have no problem with spiritual people - those that march to the beat of their own drum that is, and don't follow a religion.

I have an American friend who was raised a Mormon. He still believes in God, but he doesn't do religion. He doesn't bash religion either - he says there are lots of people living clean lives in Utah as a result of their faith. Fair point.

But I just can't swallow religion. Ridiculous things written in ridiculous old books by ridiculous old men. I don't think God has endorsed Donald Trump, and I sure as poo don't think some sky pixie is looking after me. But if there is a real God, he would have let my atheist grandfather into heaven. Of that I am sure.

In your view, is religion a force for good or evil? I urr on the side of evil.

If there is a God, I suspect She's mighty pissed off at what's been done in her name.

I think religion is force for good, ten commandments is a good morality check for the whole world.

I am not religious but I believe in God, the only times I go to church are Christmas and Easter, I try to uphold love your neighbour as yourself but as we all know sometimes it is a hard thing to do.

Both my kids went to a catholic school and they turned out all right, I have no complaints, generally they can tell what is right and what is wrong.

Without religion and all the donots, I think we would live in a jungle, in other words who can eat who.

The way things are going religion is on the skids, in a hundred years religion will be practiced by a minority in the west anyway.

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1. There has never been a more serious assault on our standard of living than Anthropogenic Global Warming..Ajax
2. "One hour of freedom is worth more than 40 years of slavery & prison" Regas Feraeos

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Gordon

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Re: Religion: force for good or evil?
Reply #73 - Dec 5^th, 2016 at 5:22pm

Aussie wrote on Dec 5^th, 2016 at 5:11pm:

Lord Herbert wrote on Dec 5^th, 2016 at 5:04pm:

Mistress Nicole wrote on Dec 5^th, 2016 at 4:58pm:

Big difference between chapel once-a-fortnight Anglican light, and Islam. They're miles apart. There should be no Islamic schools allowed in Australia.

x2

- 4.

Explain this then.

Educated at Islamic schools, Bee says she was taught not to mix with other Australian children.

“It was very religious. It did not feel like I lived in Australia at all," she remembers.

"Every child there was also Arab or from a Muslim background. The day started with praying, it ended with praying. We had Islamic classes as well. It was very religious based, I guess. Even the teachers spoke Arabic to us. They wore the scarf. It just really didn't feel like it was in Australia at all."
http://www.abc.net.au/triplej/programs/hack/escaping-child-marriage-in-western-s...

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Mistress Nicole

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Re: Religion: force for good or evil?
Reply #74 - Dec 5^th, 2016 at 5:30pm

Gordon wrote on Dec 5^th, 2016 at 5:04pm:

Mistress Nicole wrote on Dec 5^th, 2016 at 4:58pm:

NorthOfNorth wrote on Dec 5^th, 2016 at 11:30am:

Mistress Nicole wrote on Dec 5^th, 2016 at 11:19am:

NorthOfNorth wrote on Dec 5^th, 2016 at 11:05am:

Mistress Nicole wrote on Dec 5^th, 2016 at 10:56am:

I've never actually spoken to my son about his religion or lack thereof. His father is trying to raise him to be a good Lutheran - I don't want to split the boy apart.

But I'm teaching him to think for himself. It's the best antidote to religion you can get.

So you send him to a religious school because of his relationship with father then covertly teach him to reject the principle upon which the school is founded ?

Don't you think that's dishonest (not to mention hypocritical) ?

Wow you put a lot of words in my mouth. I do not send him to a private religious school because of his relationship with his father. I send him there because it gives him the best education my money can buy. Please don't ask me to explain that to you a third time.

Teaching him to think for himself, question everything, and explore issues from all angles is neither dishonest or covert, unless free thinkers worry you?

You mentioned his father (in reference to religion). That possibly implied (by way of Freudian slip) that religion may have been part your decision to send him there.

I'm more than OK with free thinking... I don't hold religious beliefs myself but I would say that I'm culturally of Irish/European Catholic descent and - by inheritance - sensibility.

But I would say that to send someone to an institution whose philosophy and beliefs I could not tolerate would, for me, be an act of hypocrisy... As hypocritical as sending them to an Islamic school.

Big difference between chapel once-a-fortnight Anglican light, and Islam. They're miles apart. There should be no Islamic schools allowed in Australia.

In principle I'm ok with Islamic schools, but then I read stuff like this and take the same opinion as you.

Educated at Islamic schools, Bee says she was taught not to mix with other Australian children.

“It was very religious. It did not feel like I lived in Australia at all," she remembers.

"Every child there was also Arab or from a Muslim background. The day started with praying, it ended with praying. We had Islamic classes as well. It was very religious based, I guess. Even the teachers spoke Arabic to us. They wore the scarf. It just really didn't feel like it was in Australia at all."
http://www.abc.net.au/triplej/programs/hack/escaping-child-marriage-in-western-s...

With all that face planting towards Mecca, I suppose they don't get time for irrelevant subjects like maths and Science. And that heathen tongue - English.

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