Australian Politics Forum - Religion: force for good or evil?

Lord Herbert

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Re: Religion: force for good or evil?
Reply #15 - Dec 5^th, 2016 at 9:24am

issuevoter wrote on Dec 5^th, 2016 at 8:56am:

No one can explain what they mean by God, so they fall back on such bogus concepts as Faith. Trying to sell your particular religion, is a sure sign that you need verification from others, and are looking for safety in numbers. Both of which you try to sell for the good of the unconverted.

The number of people who fall for this stuff, is a perfect example of why there is no hope for humanity.

I totally agree.

As I was walking down the street thinking about nothing in particular the other day, this hit me straight between the eyes like a one-punch fatality.

It seems that for the next 4 billion years of sustainable life on Earth, the human brain will always have a part of it where the neural connections and synapses are unable to directly communicate with the brain's Centre of Commonsense and Reasoning - the cerebral cortex.

It's a wanky little section of the brain that sees otherwise well-educated, intelligent, and reasonable people who work in the field of science and medicine - going about their day with big black beards, towels wrapped around their heads, hijabs, red dots on the forehead, and sundry other public confessions of insanity.i

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Mistress Nicole

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Re: Religion: force for good or evil?
Reply #16 - Dec 5^th, 2016 at 9:29am

Valkie wrote on Dec 5^th, 2016 at 7:41am:

It all depends on how one approaches it.

For some religion is a crucial part in their lives, they look to God to help them get by.

For others it is a security blanket that they use to try and hide their fears and insecurities.

Some use it as a mask to hide behind and

Some use it to excuse abhorrent behavior.

I am a believer, but I also believe that God does not truly want us to devote our lives to an intangible, but to live well, just and honestly, treat people fairly and with love.

It is said, All things in moderation this includes religion.
Sure believe, and be honest in your belief, but do not be obsessive.

Above all, we must remember that ALL holy books be it the Bible, Koran or Tora were all written by MEN.

Men who are imperfect and prone to misunderstanding, and above all, caught in a time and place where things differ greatly from today.

These books have some truth in them (God influence) but are also open to interpretation.
We should live our lives as our morals dictate, that little voice in our heads (Gods) that reminds us. "That's not right."

If we follow this simple rule, the world would be a better, nicer place.

Peace to all and Merry Xmas

Valkie, a reasonable post. I do wonder however whether Jesus would have condoned your reference to women as "sluts"?

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John Smith Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 72209 Gender:	Re: Religion: force for good or evil? Reply #17 - Dec 5^th, 2016 at 9:30am Religion developed as a way to control the masses. From witch doctors, to voodoo priests, to catholicism and Islam, it was all about controlling the masses and giving authority to someone who was to weak to take that authority by force (as was the way leaders were chosen in the old days).
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Lord Herbert

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Re: Religion: force for good or evil?
Reply #18 - Dec 5^th, 2016 at 9:35am

John Smith wrote on Dec 5^th, 2016 at 9:30am:

Religion developed as a way to control the masses. From witch doctors, to voodoo priests, to catholicism and Islam, it was all about controlling the masses and giving authority to someone who was to weak to take that authority by force (as was the way leaders were chosen in the old days).

It is still about controlling the masses.

Longy's church managed to sucker $500,000 in donations from the laity from which they could skim a goodly amount off the top for their own institutional sustainability whilst at the same time receiving annual 'grants' from the government to the tune of millions.

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John Smith Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 72209 Gender:	Re: Religion: force for good or evil? Reply #19 - Dec 5^th, 2016 at 9:38am Lord Herbert wrote on Dec 5^th, 2016 at 9:35am: It is still about controlling the masses. yes and no ... for some religions, like Islam, yes. Definitely, but for others, like Scientology, it's all about money.
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Lord Herbert

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Re: Religion: force for good or evil?
Reply #20 - Dec 5^th, 2016 at 9:42am

John Smith wrote on Dec 5^th, 2016 at 9:38am:

Lord Herbert wrote on Dec 5^th, 2016 at 9:35am:

It is still about controlling the masses.

yes and no ... for some religions, like Islam, yes. Definitely, but for others, like Scientology, it's all about money.

Oh yes.

I think we're finally singing from the same Hymn book, John. Cool

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John Smith Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 72209 Gender:	Re: Religion: force for good or evil? Reply #21 - Dec 5^th, 2016 at 9:44am Lord Herbert wrote on Dec 5^th, 2016 at 9:42am: Oh yes. I think we're finally singing from the same Hymn book, John. Cool about time you finally figured out what the right tune was .....
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Mistress Nicole

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Re: Religion: force for good or evil?
Reply #22 - Dec 5^th, 2016 at 9:45am

NorthOfNorth wrote on Dec 5^th, 2016 at 8:03am:

Mistress Nicole wrote on Dec 5^th, 2016 at 5:41am:

I send my son to a private Anglican school. Not for the religion, but because it provides a solid education.

Ironically you may have answered your own question...

Ask yourself (and post back) What is it about the religious school that you believe provides your son a solid education over that which can be provided by a secular one?

I marched myself on tours through several public schools. Then I took a look at two private schools. By comparison, the public schools were like zoos. I take it from your question that this is due to the chapel my son attends on a fort nightly basis?

You may be right, but that's not my view. My view is as follows:

Private schools are run more like businesses. Teachers are paid more in private schools, so you get a better cut of teacher. Private schools need to maintain enrolments. Parents don't fork out big bucks to schools that don't perform. This means that teachers who don't cut the mustard will be sacked - something that simply doesn't happen in government schools. And because private schools need to entice parents to pay, things like NAPLAN tests are taken seriously. So are Year 12 results.

So, because user pays, a lot of government fat, burecracy, and ineptitude is scuttled. Private schools are employed by parents to do a job - educate.

I fork out $14,000 per year. I expect my pound of flesh. The school works for me. That's the deal.

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John Smith

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Re: Religion: force for good or evil?
Reply #23 - Dec 5^th, 2016 at 9:48am

Mistress Nicole wrote on Dec 5^th, 2016 at 9:45am:

Private schools are run more like businesses. Teachers are paid more in private schools, so you get a better cut of teacher.

rubbish ..... every study ever done shows there is little to no difference in the level of education kids experience between public and private education. The ONLY real advantage one gains from private schools is the circle of friends their kids surround themselves with. Societies business leaders generally send their kids to private schools, and as those kids grow up they take over their families businesses .... it makes for good contacts later in life when you need a job.

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Lord Herbert

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Re: Religion: force for good or evil?
Reply #24 - Dec 5^th, 2016 at 9:56am

Mistress Nicole wrote on Dec 5^th, 2016 at 9:45am:

NorthOfNorth wrote on Dec 5^th, 2016 at 8:03am:

Mistress Nicole wrote on Dec 5^th, 2016 at 5:41am:

I send my son to a private Anglican school. Not for the religion, but because it provides a solid education.

Ironically you may have answered your own question...

Ask yourself (and post back) What is it about the religious school that you believe provides your son a solid education over that which can be provided by a secular one?

I marched myself on tours through several public schools. Then I took a look at two private schools. By comparison, the public schools were like zoos. I take it from your question that this is due to the chapel my son attends on a fort nightly basis?

You may be right, but that's not my view. My view is as follows:

Private schools are run more like businesses. Teachers are paid more in private schools, so you get a better cut of teacher. Private schools need to maintain enrolments. Parents don't fork out big bucks to schools that don't perform. This means that teachers who don't cut the mustard will be sacked - something that simply doesn't happen in government schools. And because private schools need to entice parents to pay, things like NAPLAN tests are taken seriously. So are Year 12 results.

So, because user pays, a lot of government fat, burecracy, and ineptitude is scuttled. Private schools are employed by parents to do a job - educate.

I fork out $14,000 per year. I expect my pound of flesh. The school works for me. That's the deal.

Brilliant.

My niece had 8 years in a public school before moving to teach in a non-religious private school.

Chalk and cheese.

Not the vaguest similarity between the two.

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Lord Herbert

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Re: Religion: force for good or evil?
Reply #25 - Dec 5^th, 2016 at 9:58am

John Smith wrote on Dec 5^th, 2016 at 9:48am:

Mistress Nicole wrote on Dec 5^th, 2016 at 9:45am:

Private schools are run more like businesses. Teachers are paid more in private schools, so you get a better cut of teacher.

rubbish ..... every study ever done shows there is little to no difference in the level of education kids experience between public and private education. The ONLY real advantage one gains from private schools is the circle of friends their kids surround themselves with. Societies business leaders generally send their kids to private schools, and as those kids grow up they take over their families businesses .... it makes for good contacts later in life when you need a job.

That's all true, but there's much MUCH more to that.

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John Smith

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Re: Religion: force for good or evil?
Reply #26 - Dec 5^th, 2016 at 10:05am

Lord Herbert wrote on Dec 5^th, 2016 at 9:58am:

John Smith wrote on Dec 5^th, 2016 at 9:48am:

Mistress Nicole wrote on Dec 5^th, 2016 at 9:45am:

Private schools are run more like businesses. Teachers are paid more in private schools, so you get a better cut of teacher.

rubbish ..... every study ever done shows there is little to no difference in the level of education kids experience between public and private education. The ONLY real advantage one gains from private schools is the circle of friends their kids surround themselves with. Societies business leaders generally send their kids to private schools, and as those kids grow up they take over their families businesses .... it makes for good contacts later in life when you need a job.

That's all true, but there's much MUCH more to that.

yes, your kids are also more likely to get molested at private schools, especially those run by a church

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Postmodern Trendoid III

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Re: Religion: force for good or evil?
Reply #27 - Dec 5^th, 2016 at 10:10am

John Smith wrote on Dec 5^th, 2016 at 9:30am:

Religion developed as a way to control the masses. From witch doctors, to voodoo priests, to catholicism and Islam, it was all about controlling the masses and giving authority to someone who was to weak to take that authority by force (as was the way leaders were chosen in the old days).

Reducing it to power ignores the reasons and ideas that 'the powers that be' implemented. This is the hangover of Foucault, who reduced everything to power, but put in little effort to explain the ideas in amongst those powers.

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Lord Herbert Gold Member Offline Posts: 34441 Gender:	Re: Religion: force for good or evil? Reply #28 - Dec 5^th, 2016 at 10:14am John Smith wrote on Dec 5^th, 2016 at 10:05am: yes, your kids are also more likely to get molested at private schools, especially those run by a church I think you might be right there.
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NorthOfNorth

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Re: Religion: force for good or evil?
Reply #29 - Dec 5^th, 2016 at 10:26am

Mistress Nicole wrote on Dec 5^th, 2016 at 9:45am:

NorthOfNorth wrote on Dec 5^th, 2016 at 8:03am:

Mistress Nicole wrote on Dec 5^th, 2016 at 5:41am:

I send my son to a private Anglican school. Not for the religion, but because it provides a solid education.

Ironically you may have answered your own question...

Ask yourself (and post back) What is it about the religious school that you believe provides your son a solid education over that which can be provided by a secular one?

I marched myself on tours through several public schools. Then I took a look at two private schools. By comparison, the public schools were like zoos. I take it from your question that this is due to the chapel my son attends on a fort nightly basis?

You may be right, but that's not my view.

It should be your view (or at least you should hold to another view) given that you:

and don't follow a religion

Or is it that you think your son must suffer what you claim is insufferable?

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Conviction is the art of being certain

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