Australian Politics Forum - What is a Conservative?

Frank

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Re: What is a Conservative?
Reply #45 - Feb 18^th, 2018 at 10:30pm

Gay is now normalised. You will be persecuted if you say gay 'marriage' is bollocks. It's all about normalising perversion.

You have to like it now.

Soon it will be a perversion to have kids - environmental pressures and all that. Arse banging, for it's very dead-end nature, will be valorised in about 2-3 years as the environmentally responsible relationship. You will have to bee gay to be PC.

Heteros will be branded polar-bear killers and destroyers of the Earth.

And of course all the third worlders who don't buy into any of this crap will flood in and throw all the gays off the top of tall buildings and rule for the next few centuries.
Decadence has no future.

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Grappler Truth Teller Feller

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Re: What is a Conservative?
Reply #46 - Feb 19^th, 2018 at 12:55am

Frank wrote on Feb 18^th, 2018 at 10:30pm:

Gay is now normalised. You will be persecuted if you say gay 'marriage' is bollocks. It's all about normalising perversion.

You have to like it now.

Soon it will be a perversion to have kids - environmental pressures and all that. Arse banging, for it's very dead-end nature, will be valorised in about 2-3 years as the environmentally responsible relationship. You will have to bee gay to be PC.

Heteros will be branded polar-bear killers and destroyers of the Earth.

And of course all the third worlders who don't buy into any of this crap will flood in and throw all the gays off the top of tall buildings and rule for the next few centuries.
Decadence has no future.

You should read 'The Forever War', by Joe Haldeman... in the third segment, as a survivor of the first two as a private and then a sergeant, he is a Captain of Infantry aboard a star ship, and has a problem with gays. At that point gay/lesbian is the norm, and he is viewed as a pervert for being hetero.... that situation nearly causes disaster for the mission....

Anyway - just saying... some people are very prescient....

"Should've thrown 'em out of the airlock the first time they caused trouble...... now it's too late...."

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Mattyfisk

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Re: What is a Conservative?
Reply #47 - Feb 19^th, 2018 at 8:49am

Frank wrote on Feb 18^th, 2018 at 10:30pm:

Gay is now normalised. You will be persecuted if you say gay 'marriage' is bollocks. It's all about normalising perversion.

You have to like it now.

Soon it will be a perversion to have kids - environmental pressures and all that. Arse banging, for it's very dead-end nature, will be valorised in about 2-3 years as the environmentally responsible relationship. You will have to bee gay to be PC.

Heteros will be branded polar-bear killers and destroyers of the Earth.

And of course all the third worlders who don't buy into any of this crap will flood in and throw all the gays off the top of tall buildings and rule for the next few centuries.
Decadence has no future.

He's onto it.

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Prime Minister for Canyons

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Re: What is a Conservative?
Reply #48 - Feb 19^th, 2018 at 8:52am

Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on Feb 19^th, 2018 at 12:55am:

Frank wrote on Feb 18^th, 2018 at 10:30pm:

Gay is now normalised. You will be persecuted if you say gay 'marriage' is bollocks. It's all about normalising perversion.

You have to like it now.

Soon it will be a perversion to have kids - environmental pressures and all that. Arse banging, for it's very dead-end nature, will be valorised in about 2-3 years as the environmentally responsible relationship. You will have to bee gay to be PC.

Heteros will be branded polar-bear killers and destroyers of the Earth.

And of course all the third worlders who don't buy into any of this crap will flood in and throw all the gays off the top of tall buildings and rule for the next few centuries.
Decadence has no future.

You should read 'The Forever War', by Joe Haldeman... in the third segment, as a survivor of the first two as a private and then a sergeant, he is a Captain of Infantry aboard a star ship, and has a problem with gays. At that point gay/lesbian is the norm, and he is viewed as a pervert for being hetero.... that situation nearly causes disaster for the mission....

Anyway - just saying... some people are very prescient....

"Should've thrown 'em out of the airlock the first time they caused trouble...... now it's too late...."

Well he's a major and its more a point about how the vietnam vets came back to a country that changed and they hadn't.

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Auggie

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Re: What is a Conservative?
Reply #49 - Feb 19^th, 2018 at 9:28am

Frank wrote on Feb 18^th, 2018 at 10:30pm:

Gay is now normalised. You will be persecuted if you say gay 'marriage' is bollocks. It's all about normalising perversion.

You have to like it now.

Soon it will be a perversion to have kids - environmental pressures and all that. Arse banging, for it's very dead-end nature, will be valorised in about 2-3 years as the environmentally responsible relationship. You will have to bee gay to be PC.

Heteros will be branded polar-bear killers and destroyers of the Earth.

And of course all the third worlders who don't buy into any of this crap will flood in and throw all the gays off the top of tall buildings and rule for the next few centuries.
Decadence has no future.

Frank, this is where I disagree with you. There's nothing perverse about homosexuality or homosexual sex. What people do in the privacy of their own homes is no business or yours or mine.

The argument for same-sex marriage that I'm considering is that it's in the interest of the state to recognize heterosexual marriages in unique way, compared with same-sex couples. By all means, have a specific civil union partnership which confers the same rights and privileges as marriage, but just don't call it marriage.

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Auggie

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Re: What is a Conservative?
Reply #50 - Feb 19^th, 2018 at 9:29am

Mattyfisk wrote on Feb 18^th, 2018 at 9:57pm:

Auggie wrote on Feb 18^th, 2018 at 9:43pm:

Mattyfisk wrote on Feb 18^th, 2018 at 9:41pm:

Auggie wrote on Feb 18^th, 2018 at 9:24pm:

Mattyfisk wrote on Feb 18^th, 2018 at 9:00pm:

Auggie wrote on Feb 18^th, 2018 at 6:03pm:

So, would be conservative to repeal SSM or reactionary?

You're missing the point. SSM means nothing because of previous laws, such as no-fault divorce, the sole-parenting payment, de-facto marriage, equal rights for gay partnerships.

The gay marriage thing was all about symbolism. It meant nothing, just as it would mean nothing today if we changed our head of state's title to president.

Abbott learned from one referendum to bring on his stalling plebiscite tactic. It worked for Howard, it didn't for Abbott.

Neither of them mean anything structurally.

So, if it doesn't mean anything, then why not repeal it?

So, essentially what you're saying is that we already live in a post-family society, and if we really wanted to preserve marriage, then we'd have to repeal no-fault divorce, jail husbands for abandoning their family, etc.

The fact that you can repeal it is hardly a conservative issue. Burkean conservatism is predominantly constitutional.

If the marriage act, prior to Howard repealing it, was so enduring, then how could it be repealed at all?

I'm not sure what you mean by being able to repeal it is hardly a conservative issue???

Howard didn't repeal the Marriage Act; he had amended it to make clear what had been practised at that time. As far as I'm aware, we never had same-sex marriages before such amendment??

No, it was left to the states, who run births, death and marriage under the constitution.

The ACT had just changed its marriage act, which Howard gazzumped with his federal law.

State's rights, you see - a conservative stalwart in our country. Cunning, no?

Yes and no. Marriage is a power conferred to the Commonwealth under section 51 so in that sense yes. But, he could've abolished federal marriage laws entirely and left the states to have their own.

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Frank

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Re: What is a Conservative?
Reply #51 - Feb 19^th, 2018 at 7:33pm

Auggie wrote on Feb 19^th, 2018 at 9:28am:

Frank wrote on Feb 18^th, 2018 at 10:30pm:

Gay is now normalised. You will be persecuted if you say gay 'marriage' is bollocks. It's all about normalising perversion.

You have to like it now.

Soon it will be a perversion to have kids - environmental pressures and all that. Arse banging, for it's very dead-end nature, will be valorised in about 2-3 years as the environmentally responsible relationship. You will have to bee gay to be PC.

Heteros will be branded polar-bear killers and destroyers of the Earth.

And of course all the third worlders who don't buy into any of this crap will flood in and throw all the gays off the top of tall buildings and rule for the next few centuries.
Decadence has no future.

Frank, this is where I disagree with you. There's nothing perverse about homosexuality or homosexual sex. What people do in the privacy of their own homes is no business or yours or mine.

The argument for same-sex marriage that I'm considering is that it's in the interest of the state to recognize heterosexual marriages in unique way, compared with same-sex couples. By all means, have a specific civil union partnership which confers the same rights and privileges as marriage, but just don't call it marriage.

Marriage is about heterosexual sex because that is the ONLY basis of societal survival.
Marriage is not about sex, not about love. If it was you could marry your fapping hand, your sheep, etc.

Heterosexual sex is the only bridge between generations. And so it is the only sex any society regulates. They call it marriage.

Gays cant get married because they have a dead end relationship as far generations past and future are concerned.

Gay marriage is a sinister eyewash.

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Auggie

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Re: What is a Conservative?
Reply #52 - Feb 19^th, 2018 at 7:48pm

Frank wrote on Feb 19^th, 2018 at 7:33pm:

Auggie wrote on Feb 19^th, 2018 at 9:28am:

Frank wrote on Feb 18^th, 2018 at 10:30pm:

Gay is now normalised. You will be persecuted if you say gay 'marriage' is bollocks. It's all about normalising perversion.

You have to like it now.

Soon it will be a perversion to have kids - environmental pressures and all that. Arse banging, for it's very dead-end nature, will be valorised in about 2-3 years as the environmentally responsible relationship. You will have to bee gay to be PC.

Heteros will be branded polar-bear killers and destroyers of the Earth.

And of course all the third worlders who don't buy into any of this crap will flood in and throw all the gays off the top of tall buildings and rule for the next few centuries.
Decadence has no future.

Frank, this is where I disagree with you. There's nothing perverse about homosexuality or homosexual sex. What people do in the privacy of their own homes is no business or yours or mine.

The argument for same-sex marriage that I'm considering is that it's in the interest of the state to recognize heterosexual marriages in unique way, compared with same-sex couples. By all means, have a specific civil union partnership which confers the same rights and privileges as marriage, but just don't call it marriage.

Marriage is about heterosexual sex because that is the ONLY basis of societal survival.
Marriage is not about sex, not about love. If it was you could marry your fapping hand, your sheep, etc.

Heterosexual sex is the only bridge between generations. And so it is the only sex any society regulates. They call it marriage.

Gays cant get married because they have a dead end relationship as far generations past and future are concerned.

Gay marriage is a sinister eyewash.

Don't you think though that we're living in a post-family society anyway have been for so long now that same-sex marriage doesn't really mean anything???

Do you think we should repeal no-fault divorce or jail fathers who abandon their children?

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Frank

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Re: What is a Conservative?
Reply #53 - Feb 19^th, 2018 at 8:01pm

Auggie wrote on Feb 19^th, 2018 at 7:48pm:

Frank wrote on Feb 19^th, 2018 at 7:33pm:

Auggie wrote on Feb 19^th, 2018 at 9:28am:

Frank wrote on Feb 18^th, 2018 at 10:30pm:

Gay is now normalised. You will be persecuted if you say gay 'marriage' is bollocks. It's all about normalising perversion.

You have to like it now.

Soon it will be a perversion to have kids - environmental pressures and all that. Arse banging, for it's very dead-end nature, will be valorised in about 2-3 years as the environmentally responsible relationship. You will have to bee gay to be PC.

Heteros will be branded polar-bear killers and destroyers of the Earth.

And of course all the third worlders who don't buy into any of this crap will flood in and throw all the gays off the top of tall buildings and rule for the next few centuries.
Decadence has no future.

Frank, this is where I disagree with you. There's nothing perverse about homosexuality or homosexual sex. What people do in the privacy of their own homes is no business or yours or mine.

The argument for same-sex marriage that I'm considering is that it's in the interest of the state to recognize heterosexual marriages in unique way, compared with same-sex couples. By all means, have a specific civil union partnership which confers the same rights and privileges as marriage, but just don't call it marriage.

Marriage is about heterosexual sex because that is the ONLY basis of societal survival.
Marriage is not about sex, not about love. If it was you could marry your fapping hand, your sheep, etc.

Heterosexual sex is the only bridge between generations. And so it is the only sex any society regulates. They call it marriage.

Gays cant get married because they have a dead end relationship as far generations past and future are concerned.

Gay marriage is a sinister eyewash.

Don't you think though that we're living in a post-family society anyway have been for so long now that same-sex marriage doesn't really mean anything???

Do you think we should repeal no-fault divorce or jail fathers who abandon their children?

No.

There is no post family society.

In a litigous society no fault divorce is a lie. Its excusing fault divorce.

We should not all8w people to get married unl ess they could be expected to make a go of it. No marriage if you are unamployed, no social security for unmaried mothers.

Society picks up the tab for way too many bastards, wastrels, layabouts.

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Auggie

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Re: What is a Conservative?
Reply #54 - Feb 19^th, 2018 at 8:04pm

Frank wrote on Feb 19^th, 2018 at 8:01pm:

Auggie wrote on Feb 19^th, 2018 at 7:48pm:

Frank wrote on Feb 19^th, 2018 at 7:33pm:

Auggie wrote on Feb 19^th, 2018 at 9:28am:

Frank wrote on Feb 18^th, 2018 at 10:30pm:

Gay is now normalised. You will be persecuted if you say gay 'marriage' is bollocks. It's all about normalising perversion.

You have to like it now.

Soon it will be a perversion to have kids - environmental pressures and all that. Arse banging, for it's very dead-end nature, will be valorised in about 2-3 years as the environmentally responsible relationship. You will have to bee gay to be PC.

Heteros will be branded polar-bear killers and destroyers of the Earth.

And of course all the third worlders who don't buy into any of this crap will flood in and throw all the gays off the top of tall buildings and rule for the next few centuries.
Decadence has no future.

Frank, this is where I disagree with you. There's nothing perverse about homosexuality or homosexual sex. What people do in the privacy of their own homes is no business or yours or mine.

The argument for same-sex marriage that I'm considering is that it's in the interest of the state to recognize heterosexual marriages in unique way, compared with same-sex couples. By all means, have a specific civil union partnership which confers the same rights and privileges as marriage, but just don't call it marriage.

Marriage is about heterosexual sex because that is the ONLY basis of societal survival.
Marriage is not about sex, not about love. If it was you could marry your fapping hand, your sheep, etc.

Heterosexual sex is the only bridge between generations. And so it is the only sex any society regulates. They call it marriage.

Gays cant get married because they have a dead end relationship as far generations past and future are concerned.

Gay marriage is a sinister eyewash.

Don't you think though that we're living in a post-family society anyway have been for so long now that same-sex marriage doesn't really mean anything???

Do you think we should repeal no-fault divorce or jail fathers who abandon their children?

No.

There is no post family society.

In a litigous society no fault divorce is a lie. Its excusing fault divorce.

We should not all8w people to get married unl ess they could be expected to make a go of it. No marriage if you are unamployed, no social security for unmaried mothers.

Society picks up the tab for way too many bastards, wastrels, layabouts.

I see your point, but in order to implement your suggestions it would involve more government intervention and intrusion.

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Mattyfisk

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Re: What is a Conservative?
Reply #55 - Feb 19^th, 2018 at 8:18pm

Frank wrote on Feb 19^th, 2018 at 8:01pm:

Auggie wrote on Feb 19^th, 2018 at 7:48pm:

Frank wrote on Feb 19^th, 2018 at 7:33pm:

Auggie wrote on Feb 19^th, 2018 at 9:28am:

Frank wrote on Feb 18^th, 2018 at 10:30pm:

Gay is now normalised. You will be persecuted if you say gay 'marriage' is bollocks. It's all about normalising perversion.

You have to like it now.

Soon it will be a perversion to have kids - environmental pressures and all that. Arse banging, for it's very dead-end nature, will be valorised in about 2-3 years as the environmentally responsible relationship. You will have to bee gay to be PC.

Heteros will be branded polar-bear killers and destroyers of the Earth.

And of course all the third worlders who don't buy into any of this crap will flood in and throw all the gays off the top of tall buildings and rule for the next few centuries.
Decadence has no future.

Frank, this is where I disagree with you. There's nothing perverse about homosexuality or homosexual sex. What people do in the privacy of their own homes is no business or yours or mine.

The argument for same-sex marriage that I'm considering is that it's in the interest of the state to recognize heterosexual marriages in unique way, compared with same-sex couples. By all means, have a specific civil union partnership which confers the same rights and privileges as marriage, but just don't call it marriage.

Marriage is about heterosexual sex because that is the ONLY basis of societal survival.
Marriage is not about sex, not about love. If it was you could marry your fapping hand, your sheep, etc.

Heterosexual sex is the only bridge between generations. And so it is the only sex any society regulates. They call it marriage.

Gays cant get married because they have a dead end relationship as far generations past and future are concerned.

Gay marriage is a sinister eyewash.

Don't you think though that we're living in a post-family society anyway have been for so long now that same-sex marriage doesn't really mean anything???

Do you think we should repeal no-fault divorce or jail fathers who abandon their children?

No.

There is no post family society.

In a litigous society no fault divorce is a lie. Its excusing fault divorce.

We should not all8w people to get married unl ess they could be expected to make a go of it. No marriage if you are unamployed, no social security for unmaried mothers.

Society picks up the tab for way too many bastards, wastrels, layabouts.

We certainly pick up the tab for you, old boy. We grew here, you flew here. We're quite happy to pay for your life support. You're now one of us.

Where there's life there's hope, no?

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Frank

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Re: What is a Conservative?
Reply #56 - Feb 19^th, 2018 at 8:35pm

Mattyfisk wrote on Feb 19^th, 2018 at 8:18pm:

Frank wrote on Feb 19^th, 2018 at 8:01pm:

Auggie wrote on Feb 19^th, 2018 at 7:48pm:

Frank wrote on Feb 19^th, 2018 at 7:33pm:

Auggie wrote on Feb 19^th, 2018 at 9:28am:

Frank wrote on Feb 18^th, 2018 at 10:30pm:

Gay is now normalised. You will be persecuted if you say gay 'marriage' is bollocks. It's all about normalising perversion.

You have to like it now.

Soon it will be a perversion to have kids - environmental pressures and all that. Arse banging, for it's very dead-end nature, will be valorised in about 2-3 years as the environmentally responsible relationship. You will have to bee gay to be PC.

Heteros will be branded polar-bear killers and destroyers of the Earth.

And of course all the third worlders who don't buy into any of this crap will flood in and throw all the gays off the top of tall buildings and rule for the next few centuries.
Decadence has no future.

Frank, this is where I disagree with you. There's nothing perverse about homosexuality or homosexual sex. What people do in the privacy of their own homes is no business or yours or mine.

The argument for same-sex marriage that I'm considering is that it's in the interest of the state to recognize heterosexual marriages in unique way, compared with same-sex couples. By all means, have a specific civil union partnership which confers the same rights and privileges as marriage, but just don't call it marriage.

Marriage is about heterosexual sex because that is the ONLY basis of societal survival.
Marriage is not about sex, not about love. If it was you could marry your fapping hand, your sheep, etc.

Heterosexual sex is the only bridge between generations. And so it is the only sex any society regulates. They call it marriage.

Gays cant get married because they have a dead end relationship as far generations past and future are concerned.

Gay marriage is a sinister eyewash.

Don't you think though that we're living in a post-family society anyway have been for so long now that same-sex marriage doesn't really mean anything???

Do you think we should repeal no-fault divorce or jail fathers who abandon their children?

No.

There is no post family society.

In a litigous society no fault divorce is a lie. Its excusing fault divorce.

We should not all8w people to get married unl ess they could be expected to make a go of it. No marriage if you are unamployed, no social security for unmaried mothers.

Society picks up the tab for way too many bastards, wastrels, layabouts.

We certainly pick up the tab for you, old boy. We grew here, you flew here. We're quite happy to pay for your life support. You're now one of us.

Where there's life there's hope, no?

We? You are a paki arse bandit.

I have no tab. I am a net payer, arse bandit.

I carry your perversions through my taxes. I earn too much so my sons get nothing in support while they are at uni or school. And i think this is right. We earn enought not to put our hands out.

Thats the kind of migrant you would want, you idiotic arse burglar.

But unfortunately I am blonde and blue eyed so it's bad and oppressive and slave tradie. Get some tinted swarthie welfare dependants in here, otherwise it would be wacist.

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goldkam

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Re: What is a Conservative?
Reply #57 - Feb 19^th, 2018 at 8:59pm

[/quote]
Marriage is about heterosexual sex because that is the ONLY basis of societal survival.
Marriage is not about sex, not about love. If it was you could marry your fapping hand, your sheep, etc.

Heterosexual sex is the only bridge between generations. And so it is the only sex any society regulates. They call it marriage.

Gays cant get married because they have a dead end relationship as far generations past and future are concerned.

Gay marriage is a sinister eyewash.

[/quote]

So they cannot coexist together. The definition of marriage was amended by the Howard Government in 2004, thus who were they to define marriage. From that it can be said marriage was defined by a conservative group of politicians, with no real interaction with the country. Rather it should be defined by Australia, the community, which is highlighted by the recent (might I add expensive and utterly ridiculous plebiscite).

However I do somewhat agree that Heterosexuality is the bridges between and to other generations but adoption, surrogacy are all alternative options for homosexuals.

You form the basis of this view off what??? that they cannot reproduce. This is incredibly narrow minded and ignorant. It is not as if the homosexual individuals are stealing straight men persay, which leads to less individuals reproducing. If anything we have a population crisis and less people need to be reproducing.

To add onto your notion of "Gays cant get married because they have a dead end relationship as far generations past and future". So you are saying if an individual is gay they no longer can have a relationship with their family, they are someone secluded due to sexual orientation. Please.

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Auggie

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Re: What is a Conservative?
Reply #58 - Feb 19^th, 2018 at 9:39pm

goldkam wrote on Feb 19^th, 2018 at 8:59pm:

o they cannot coexist together. The definition of marriage was amended by the Howard Government in 2004, thus who were they to define marriage. From that it can be said marriage was defined by a conservative group of politicians, with no real interaction with the country. Rather it should be defined by Australia, the community, which is highlighted by the recent (might I add expensive and utterly ridiculous plebiscite).

However I do somewhat agree that Heterosexuality is the bridges between and to other generations but adoption, surrogacy are all alternative options for homosexuals.

You form the basis of this view off what??? that they cannot reproduce. This is incredibly narrow minded and ignorant. It is not as if the homosexual individuals are stealing straight men persay, which leads to less individuals reproducing. If anything we have a population crisis and less people need to be reproducing.

To add onto your notion of "Gays cant get married because they have a dead end relationship as far generations past and future". So you are saying if an individual is gay they no longer can have a relationship with their family, they are someone secluded due to sexual orientation. Please.

One view is that same-sex marriage is prioritizing the individual over the family. Now, this is a question as to what type of society we want: do we want individuals are more valued or where families are more valued? As it is, we live in a post-family society, so why should we erode the family even more by de-prioritizing marriage?

Another view is that marriage is about the union of man and woman, the two genders in harmony, which if you think about it, is quite egalitarian. Should we recognise a same-sex relationship over a relationship which represents both genders, both man and woman?

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goldkam

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Re: What is a Conservative?
Reply #59 - Feb 19^th, 2018 at 10:12pm

Auggie wrote on Feb 19^th, 2018 at 9:39pm:

goldkam wrote on Feb 19^th, 2018 at 8:59pm:

o they cannot coexist together. The definition of marriage was amended by the Howard Government in 2004, thus who were they to define marriage. From that it can be said marriage was defined by a conservative group of politicians, with no real interaction with the country. Rather it should be defined by Australia, the community, which is highlighted by the recent (might I add expensive and utterly ridiculous plebiscite).

However I do somewhat agree that Heterosexuality is the bridges between and to other generations but adoption, surrogacy are all alternative options for homosexuals.

You form the basis of this view off what??? that they cannot reproduce. This is incredibly narrow minded and ignorant. It is not as if the homosexual individuals are stealing straight men persay, which leads to less individuals reproducing. If anything we have a population crisis and less people need to be reproducing.

To add onto your notion of "Gays cant get married because they have a dead end relationship as far generations past and future". So you are saying if an individual is gay they no longer can have a relationship with their family, they are someone secluded due to sexual orientation. Please.

One view is that same-sex marriage is prioritizing the individual over the family. Now, this is a question as to what type of society we want: do we want individuals are more valued or where families are more valued? As it is, we live in a post-family society, so why should we erode the family even more by de-prioritizing marriage?

Another view is that marriage is about the union of man and woman, the two genders in harmony, which if you think about it, is quite egalitarian. Should we recognise a same-sex relationship over a relationship which represents both genders, both man and woman?

Both views I respectfully disagree with.

Your first point. A gay marriage (if passed) follows the same notions and conditions as a heterosexual marriage. So is this implying that those single heterosexual couples who are getting married are just individualising themselves and prioritising individualism. That point is up to the individual, society doesn't get to dictate that.

To your second point. The union between a man and woman was actually dictated by the Howard Government with little consultation with the country. Thus this view is from an older generation of Liberal Conservatives. When ever will gay marriage somehow override heterosexual marriage, it is not a competition or power struggle, it is about equality and justice.

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