Auggie wrote on Feb 18
th, 2018 at 11:29am:
Mattyfisk wrote on Feb 17
th, 2018 at 3:32pm:
But by the same token, when a critical mass happens, change is inevitable. Gay marriage was one such issue. It was pointless preserving some outdated ideal of marriage, which serves no social purpose in the developed world anymore.
Regarding same-sex marriage, don't you think that society has an interest in recognising the importance of a mother-father family structure over a father-father or mother-mother one? Shouldn't we be prioritizing the family over the individual?
Mattyfisk wrote on Feb 17
th, 2018 at 3:32pm:
When the tree changes, you need to go with it. This is conservative too.
But, isn't conservatism also about trying to preserve the best type of society? Even if it means going back to the
status quo ante?
Yes, but would you endure bad kings to preserve a monarchy?
I would say that the conservative position is: if it's bad, then it's need to change. In the case of our monarchy, it isn't bad and produced good results, so there's not reason to change it.
Take Egypt - should they have avoided a military coup to keep a useless and unpopular constitutionally elected president? Take America - should they keep giving Trump chances?
That is a question for an American conservative to answer. They will need to look at their institutions and traditions and make that determination. From my perspective, it comes down to whether or not the existing institutions are good.
On gay marriage, it doesn't threaten mother-father families. With the exception of royal bloodlines, when has the role of the state been to preserve any sort of family at all?
It doesn't threaten mother-father families; I think it shows that society is prioritizing the individual over the family. We can all agree that the family is basic unit of society. Should we become even more post-family than what we already are?
Conservatism isn't about promoting values from the pulpit, it's about cultivating an enduring model of government - a stronger one that doesn't tinker with fads and trivialities.
Homosexuality has become so powerful that gay marriage naysayers were being seen as faddish and trivial - and hysterical. The French aristocracy couldn't get past this, nor could the Romanovs. The paradigm shift had already happened.
When it comes to this tipping point, the system itself has effectively changed without a law being written.