Australian Politics Forum - Unions create unemployment

Gnads

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Re: Unions create unemployment
Reply #150 - Sep 27^th, 2021 at 6:37am

NorthOfNorth wrote on Sep 26^th, 2021 at 10:48pm:

freediver wrote on Sep 26^th, 2021 at 9:22pm:

NorthOfNorth wrote on Sep 26^th, 2021 at 7:14pm:

freediver wrote on Sep 26^th, 2021 at 7:13pm:

Forget about your misunderstanding of other people's economic interest. What does this mean?

Quote:

Well, if there are no laws about how hard you can drive your workforce, then, ultimately they'll be driven to collapse.

Slavery existed because there were no legal limits on how hard you could work your enslaved workforce... Even to the point of collapse from exhaustion and death.

No, that is not why slavery existed. It does not even make sense. Throughout history there have been all sorts of laws governing the treatment of slaves, none of which impacted the existence of slavery.

Would you mind explaining your first absurd theory before inventing another one?

Quote:

Well, if there are no laws about how hard you can drive your workforce, then, ultimately they'll be driven to collapse.

What does this mean?

No, there were no laws prohibiting slavery throughout human history in all cultures (up until the end of the 18th century) and only moral reasons for treating slaves well...

Some cultures kept slaves until it was time to eat them.

However, slaveowners did have to be concerned about being attacked by mistreated slaves.

You shouldn't have responded to FD bumping this thread back into view.

Unions wouldn't exist if it weren't for the attitudes, the greed & arrogance of those employers who choose to exploit the labour of others.

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NorthOfNorth

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Re: Unions create unemployment
Reply #151 - Sep 27^th, 2021 at 7:01am

Gnads wrote on Sep 27^th, 2021 at 6:37am:

Unions wouldn't exist if it weren't for the attitudes, the greed & arrogance of those employers who choose to exploit the labour of others.

Yes.

The propensity towards exploitation of others for economic gain is an unfortunate part of human nature which only legal and economic penalties can constrain and mitigate.

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freediver

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Re: Unions create unemployment
Reply #152 - Sep 27^th, 2021 at 4:55pm

NorthOfNorth wrote on Sep 26^th, 2021 at 10:48pm:

freediver wrote on Sep 26^th, 2021 at 9:22pm:

NorthOfNorth wrote on Sep 26^th, 2021 at 7:14pm:

freediver wrote on Sep 26^th, 2021 at 7:13pm:

Forget about your misunderstanding of other people's economic interest. What does this mean?

Quote:

Well, if there are no laws about how hard you can drive your workforce, then, ultimately they'll be driven to collapse.

Slavery existed because there were no legal limits on how hard you could work your enslaved workforce... Even to the point of collapse from exhaustion and death.

No, that is not why slavery existed. It does not even make sense. Throughout history there have been all sorts of laws governing the treatment of slaves, none of which impacted the existence of slavery.

Would you mind explaining your first absurd theory before inventing another one?

Quote:

Well, if there are no laws about how hard you can drive your workforce, then, ultimately they'll be driven to collapse.

What does this mean?

No, there were no laws prohibiting slavery throughout human history in all cultures (up until the end of the 18th century) and only moral reasons for treating slaves well...

Some cultures kept slaves until it was time to eat them.

However, slaveowners did have to be concerned about being attacked by mistreated slaves.

Again, your naïve acceptance of socialist propaganda has blinded you to the reality. There is no shortage of examples of slave retaliation from history.

Quote:

Well, if there are no laws about how hard you can drive your workforce, then, ultimately they'll be driven to collapse.

Can you spell out for us what you mean by this?

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NorthOfNorth

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Re: Unions create unemployment
Reply #153 - Sep 27^th, 2021 at 5:17pm

freediver wrote on Sep 27^th, 2021 at 4:55pm:

Quote:

Well, if there are no laws about how hard you can drive your workforce, then, ultimately they'll be driven to collapse.

Can you spell out for us what you mean by this?

It is only the threat of unendurable consequence that protects the exploitable from the exploitative.

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freediver

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Re: Unions create unemployment
Reply #154 - Sep 27^th, 2021 at 5:22pm

NorthOfNorth wrote on Sep 27^th, 2021 at 5:17pm:

freediver wrote on Sep 27^th, 2021 at 4:55pm:

Quote:

Well, if there are no laws about how hard you can drive your workforce, then, ultimately they'll be driven to collapse.

Can you spell out for us what you mean by this?

It is only the threat of unendurable consequence that protects the exploitable from the exploitative.

I meant specifics, not even vaguer generalisations.

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NorthOfNorth

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Re: Unions create unemployment
Reply #155 - Sep 27^th, 2021 at 5:23pm

freediver wrote on Sep 27^th, 2021 at 5:22pm:

NorthOfNorth wrote on Sep 27^th, 2021 at 5:17pm:

freediver wrote on Sep 27^th, 2021 at 4:55pm:

Quote:

Well, if there are no laws about how hard you can drive your workforce, then, ultimately they'll be driven to collapse.

Can you spell out for us what you mean by this?

It is only the threat of unendurable consequence that protects the exploitable from the exploitative.

I meant specifics, not even vaguer generalisations.

No you don't.

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freediver

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Re: Unions create unemployment
Reply #156 - Sep 27^th, 2021 at 5:37pm

NorthOfNorth wrote on Sep 27^th, 2021 at 5:23pm:

freediver wrote on Sep 27^th, 2021 at 5:22pm:

NorthOfNorth wrote on Sep 27^th, 2021 at 5:17pm:

freediver wrote on Sep 27^th, 2021 at 4:55pm:

Quote:

Well, if there are no laws about how hard you can drive your workforce, then, ultimately they'll be driven to collapse.

Can you spell out for us what you mean by this?

It is only the threat of unendurable consequence that protects the exploitable from the exploitative.

I meant specifics, not even vaguer generalisations.

No you don't.

Are you afraid of how ridiculous you will sound when you actually say what you mean?

Is it the unions or the local socialist club that is responsible for the constant stream of garbage and lies that you post?

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NorthOfNorth

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Re: Unions create unemployment
Reply #157 - Sep 27^th, 2021 at 5:41pm

freediver wrote on Sep 27^th, 2021 at 5:37pm:

NorthOfNorth wrote on Sep 27^th, 2021 at 5:23pm:

freediver wrote on Sep 27^th, 2021 at 5:22pm:

NorthOfNorth wrote on Sep 27^th, 2021 at 5:17pm:

freediver wrote on Sep 27^th, 2021 at 4:55pm:

Quote:

Well, if there are no laws about how hard you can drive your workforce, then, ultimately they'll be driven to collapse.

Can you spell out for us what you mean by this?

It is only the threat of unendurable consequence that protects the exploitable from the exploitative.

I meant specifics, not even vaguer generalisations.

No you don't.

Are you afraid of how ridiculous you will sound when you actually say what you mean?

Is it the unions or the local socialist club that is responsible for the constant stream of garbage and lies that you post?

Awww.... Bitchy, bitchy...

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freediver Gold Member Online www.ozpolitic.com Posts: 47536 At my desk.	Re: Unions create unemployment Reply #158 - Sep 27^th, 2021 at 5:45pm It's a perfectly reasonable question North. Who is feeding you this crap? Or do you just make it up as you go along?
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Gnads

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Re: Unions create unemployment
Reply #159 - Sep 27^th, 2021 at 5:54pm

freediver wrote on Sep 27^th, 2021 at 5:45pm:

It's a perfectly reasonable question North. Who is feeding you this crap? Or do you just make it up as you go along?

The only crap is that which fall s from your finger tips when you type in this thread.

You can not & do not address the issue as to why Labour Unions exist.

They only came about because of the exploitive nature of employers & in some cases extreme exploitive nature to suppress others in servitude for SFA by those that had the control & money to do so.

You're the one generalising ... if you have an alternate theory you should express it here so as it can be pulled apart for the BS that it will be.

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NorthOfNorth

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Re: Unions create unemployment
Reply #160 - Sep 27^th, 2021 at 5:59pm

Gnads wrote on Sep 27^th, 2021 at 5:54pm:

They only came about because of the exploitive nature of employers & in some cases extreme exploitive nature to suppress others in servitude for SFA by those that had the control & money to do so.

Yes. Niall Ferguson discussed this in his recent book 'Doom: The Politics of Catastrophe', where he suggested that Marx's bleak outlook for Britain and his proposed extreme measures required to address the gross injustice and exploitation of the worker was that he did not anticipate (nor live to witness) the rise of unionism, which saved Britain from his (wrongly) predicted communist revolution.

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aquascoot

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Re: Unions create unemployment
Reply #161 - Sep 27^th, 2021 at 6:12pm

the worlds richest man, the owner of amazon, the washington times and the huffington post (2 EXTREME left wing , woke publications) will not allow a single member of his workforce to be in a union.

the left have abandoned the working class.

the smug, self satisfied urban intellectual elite (the elite of the left nowadays) have not only abandoned working class people, they actively hate them

they see them as producers of carbon emmisions and uneducated racists.

the leftie elite are truly the enemy of collective labour.

the battlers should form an alliance with the noble capitalist employers.
we have their best interests at heart

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NorthOfNorth

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Re: Unions create unemployment
Reply #162 - Sep 27^th, 2021 at 6:21pm

aquascoot wrote on Sep 27^th, 2021 at 6:12pm:

the worlds richest man, the owner of amazon, the washington times and the huffington post (2 EXTREME left wing , woke publications) will not allow a single member of his workforce to be in a union.

the left have abandoned the working class.

the smug, self satisfied urban intellectual elite (the elite of the left nowadays) have not only abandoned working class people, they actively hate them

they see them as producers of carbon emmisions and uneducated racists.

the leftie elite are truly the enemy of collective labour.

the battlers should form an alliance with the noble capitalist employers.
we have their best interests at heart

No. It's highly unlikely employers would hold the torch for the underclasses in the way unionists did at the turn of the 20th century.

If 'the left' have indeed turned on the worker, George Orwell (as Eric Blair) would have thought of this as bitterly ironic (yet an attitude he would have understood).

As part of the upper-middle-class, he confessed an innate visceral contempt for the working class about which he felt deeply ashamed.

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freediver

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Re: Unions create unemployment
Reply #163 - Sep 27^th, 2021 at 8:11pm

Gnads wrote on Sep 27^th, 2021 at 5:54pm:

freediver wrote on Sep 27^th, 2021 at 5:45pm:

It's a perfectly reasonable question North. Who is feeding you this crap? Or do you just make it up as you go along?

The only crap is that which fall s from your finger tips when you type in this thread.

You can not & do not address the issue as to why Labour Unions exist.

They only came about because of the exploitive nature of employers & in some cases extreme exploitive nature to suppress others in servitude for SFA by those that had the control & money to do so.

You're the one generalising ... if you have an alternate theory you should express it here so as it can be pulled apart for the BS that it will be.

Do you agree with what North wrote? Do you know what he is trying to say?

Well, if there are no laws about how hard you can drive your workforce, then, ultimately they'll be driven to collapse.

Quote:

If 'the left' have indeed turned on the worker

They have not turned on the worker. Rather, both left and right have turned on the unions, on account of the inescapable fact that they create unemployment.

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Bobby.

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Re: Unions create unemployment
Reply #164 - Sep 27^th, 2021 at 8:28pm

freediver wrote on Sep 27^th, 2021 at 8:11pm:

They have not turned on the worker. Rather, both left and right have turned on the unions, on account of the inescapable fact that they create unemployment.

The struggle of the urban proletariat is only
won by joining their forces in strong unions.
Without them people would be working for a bowl of rice per day.

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