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Poll Poll
Question: Should taxpayers money pay for private education ?

Yes    
  11 (35.5%)
No    
  20 (64.5%)




Total votes: 31
« Created by: Sir lastnail on: May 7th, 2012 at 11:47am »

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Should taxpayer pay for private education? (Read 18655 times)
Sir Spot of Borg
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Re: Should taxpayer pay for private education?
Reply #255 - May 13th, 2012 at 8:21am
 
longweekend58 wrote on May 12th, 2012 at 7:57pm:
Your link is worthless because it comes from the education union which is - to put it mildly - hopelessly left-wing and terribly biased against private ANYTHING. everytime this debate comes out they trot out the same old arguments which are routinely destroyed by every quater of the industry and politics. the union always claims that priavet schools get more funding than public schools because they conveniently ignored state govt funding (which is where the bulk of funding comes from).

yes SOB, you are an idiot and 18 pages of min-numbing stupidity has only confirmed that you make even less sense that lastnail and frankly, few would have thought that possible.


LOL. you dont like my link huh?

SOB
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Soren
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Re: Should taxpayer pay for private education?
Reply #256 - May 13th, 2012 at 8:29am
 
Sir Spot of Borg wrote on May 13th, 2012 at 8:20am:
Did you read it? Obviously not. There is MORE funding in private schools than public schools. This makes them public schools really doesnt it. Take the funding and stick it in public schools where it should be. simple.

SOB



Of course they receive more money! What would be the point of the parents paying fees if that didn't lead to more money??  Your report says so but you obviously missed it:

How do private and public schools compare in their overall resources? The latest research shows that because of their high levels of federal funding
and fee income
, independent private schools receive from all funding sources around $15,000 per student a year.

That compares to around $11,000 per student in public and Catholic schools.
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Sir Spot of Borg
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Re: Should taxpayer pay for private education?
Reply #257 - May 13th, 2012 at 8:33am
 
Soren wrote on May 13th, 2012 at 8:29am:
Sir Spot of Borg wrote on May 13th, 2012 at 8:20am:
Did you read it? Obviously not. There is MORE funding in private schools than public schools. This makes them public schools really doesnt it. Take the funding and stick it in public schools where it should be. simple.

SOB



Of course they receive more money! What would be the point of the parents paying fees if that didn't lead to more money??  Your report says so but you obviously missed it:

How do private and public schools compare in their overall resources? The latest research shows that because of their high levels of federal funding
and fee income
, independent private schools receive from all funding sources around $15,000 per student a year.

That compares to around $11,000 per student in public and Catholic schools.


Yup. I dont dispute most of that. That is how it is.

Your statement about money leading to more money is BS though. What does it even mean? Why should it lead to more money? You pay for a service you get a service you dont get money.

I just dont think that is how it should be. If ppl want to pay extra for private schools then the private schools should be private. Why fund them more than public schools - effectively making them exclusive public schools? If you want to go to a private school you should have to pay for it. If you go to public school you have to pay too but public schools dont get enough funding which they are entitled to.

SOB
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Soren
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Re: Should taxpayer pay for private education?
Reply #258 - May 13th, 2012 at 10:02am
 
1. Private schools do not get more money from the government than public schools.
2. Private schools have more money per pupil because of the fee income they have from the parents.


3. You suggest that there should be zero government funding for pupils whose parents pay fees for them in private schools. If so, such parent's tax bill should  also reduced. Private school fees should also be fully tax deductible and there should be no compulsory government curriculum in private schools.

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Sir Spot of Borg
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Re: Should taxpayer pay for private education?
Reply #259 - May 13th, 2012 at 10:13am
 
Soren wrote on May 13th, 2012 at 10:02am:
1. Private schools do not get more money from the government than public schools.
2. Private schools have more money per pupil because of the fee income they have from the parents.


3. You suggest that there should be zero government funding for pupils whose parents pay fees for them in private schools. If so, such parent's tax bill should  also reduced. Private school fees should also be fully tax deductible and there should be no compulsory government curriculum in private schools.



1) My link says they do
2) yes more income from fees but public schools charge money too just not as much

3) Do we have to go through this again?

yes I suggest there should be no funding for private schools. Why would the parents tax bill be reduced? If they want to take advantage of their tax dollars they can go to public schools. If parents want to put their kids in private schools they can pay for it.

IF there is no govt fudning for private schools THEN maybe they can have a different curriculum. Though its not very nice for parents to not give their kids a fair education to get by in the world. A religious education isnt really very useful is it. If parents pay for a private education thats not very educational then thats thier choice. If the govt pays for it then it should be standardised.

SOB
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Soren
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Re: Should taxpayer pay for private education?
Reply #260 - May 13th, 2012 at 12:17pm
 
Sir Spot of Borg wrote on May 13th, 2012 at 10:13am:
[quote author=342835222975470 link=1336295437/258#258 date=1336867352]1. Private schools do not get more money from the government than public schools.
2. Private schools have more money per pupil because of the fee income they have from the parents.


3. You suggest that there should be zero government funding for pupils whose parents pay fees for them in private schools. If so, such parent's tax bill should  also reduced. Private school fees should also be fully tax deductible and there should be no compulsory government curriculum in private schools.



1) My link says they do -
does it? where?

2) yes more income from fees but public schools charge money too just not as much

3) Do we have to go through this again?

yes I suggest there should be no funding for private schools. Why would the parents tax bill be reduced?
Why should they pay taxes towards public schools they don't use?






Soren, son of Holger Danske
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Sir Spot of Borg
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Re: Should taxpayer pay for private education?
Reply #261 - May 13th, 2012 at 12:43pm
 
Soren wrote on May 13th, 2012 at 12:17pm:
Sir Spot of Borg wrote on May 13th, 2012 at 10:13am:
[quote author=342835222975470 link=1336295437/258#258 date=1336867352]1. Private schools do not get more money from the government than public schools.
2. Private schools have more money per pupil because of the fee income they have from the parents.


3. You suggest that there should be zero government funding for pupils whose parents pay fees for them in private schools. If so, such parent's tax bill should  also reduced. Private school fees should also be fully tax deductible and there should be no compulsory government curriculum in private schools.



1) My link says they do -
does it? where?

2) yes more income from fees but public schools charge money too just not as much

3) Do we have to go through this again?

yes I suggest there should be no funding for private schools. Why would the parents tax bill be reduced?
Why should they pay taxes towards public schools they don't use?






Soren, son of Holger Danske



Quote:
According to a report by funding expert Jim McMorrow government schools will have received $35 billion in total from the Labor Government by 2013 – an increase of 81 per cent.

But over the same period private schools will receive $47 billion in total – an increase of 50 per cent.


didnt you read it? You didnt did you.

why should I pay taxes towards schools when I dont go to school or have any kids?

SOB
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« Last Edit: May 13th, 2012 at 12:50pm by Sir Spot of Borg »  

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nairbe
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Re: Should taxpayer pay for private education?
Reply #262 - May 13th, 2012 at 1:01pm
 
Soren wrote on May 12th, 2012 at 11:31pm:
nairbe wrote on May 12th, 2012 at 12:13pm:
Soren wrote on May 11th, 2012 at 10:51pm:
nairbe wrote on May 11th, 2012 at 8:23pm:
Why would i pay tax so someone can send their child to Kings. we pay for public education if you want different pay for it.


They are paying more tax than you do, so they are not using any of your tax. PLUS they pay the fees for Kings.
What's your problem then?



They have freely chosen to move outside of the public system. Free country i am glad they have the choice and the wealth to pay for it. but they have chosen to be outside the public system so don't expect it to be paid for. Large sums of tax payers money goes to prop up what are predominately church schools, how about the church pay.



SO their proportion of tax money is not available to them because they chose not to spend it in the government shop, sorry, government school?

How about making private school fees tax deductible then? They pay tax, the tax is not paid by the government to the private schools - give it back to the parents then. Only fair. Why should their tax money be spent on the public schools if they do not send their own kids to those schools.

Make school fees tax deductible, at least.


There seems to be a fundamental problem in the way you reason this out. You are centred around the "ME" mentality. As i previously said;

Quote:
they have chosen to be outside the public system so don't expect it to be paid for.


We all pay tax, that tax is paid to the benefit of the community as a whole, not individually. Taxes go to build roads, hospitals, schools, defence and some other stuff that politicians like to feel important about. These things are then available to us all and in so doing help to create a healthy, educated and secure community that is to the advantage of all. When you choose of your own free will to use, create or advantage from a service that is outside of that system then why do you expect to be paid for that. We do have exceptions in Health through Medicare where it is a service based fee but do you see the teachers agreeing to that Grin Grin Grin Grin
As for the Private health insurance rebate, i have a fundamental objection to it, as i do to the FTB bonus, bb bonus and any other handout or cash payment. You want private you pay for it, but by having it you do not absolve yourself of your responsibility to the community as a whole. That is a short road to social disaster and so typical of the "ME" generations selfish thinking, as is the current entitlement mentality that seems to think they should get a bonus payment for everything. Government is for services not to supplement your income.
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Sir Spot of Borg
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Re: Should taxpayer pay for private education?
Reply #263 - May 13th, 2012 at 1:05pm
 
nairbe wrote on May 13th, 2012 at 1:01pm:
Soren wrote on May 12th, 2012 at 11:31pm:
nairbe wrote on May 12th, 2012 at 12:13pm:
Soren wrote on May 11th, 2012 at 10:51pm:
nairbe wrote on May 11th, 2012 at 8:23pm:
Why would i pay tax so someone can send their child to Kings. we pay for public education if you want different pay for it.


They are paying more tax than you do, so they are not using any of your tax. PLUS they pay the fees for Kings.
What's your problem then?



They have freely chosen to move outside of the public system. Free country i am glad they have the choice and the wealth to pay for it. but they have chosen to be outside the public system so don't expect it to be paid for. Large sums of tax payers money goes to prop up what are predominately church schools, how about the church pay.



SO their proportion of tax money is not available to them because they chose not to spend it in the government shop, sorry, government school?

How about making private school fees tax deductible then? They pay tax, the tax is not paid by the government to the private schools - give it back to the parents then. Only fair. Why should their tax money be spent on the public schools if they do not send their own kids to those schools.

Make school fees tax deductible, at least.


There seems to be a fundamental problem in the way you reason this out. You are centred around the "ME" mentality. As i previously said;

Quote:
they have chosen to be outside the public system so don't expect it to be paid for.


We all pay tax, that tax is paid to the benefit of the community as a whole, not individually. Taxes go to build roads, hospitals, schools, defence and some other stuff that politicians like to feel important about. These things are then available to us all and in so doing help to create a healthy, educated and secure community that is to the advantage of all. When you choose of your own free will to use, create or advantage from a service that is outside of that system then why do you expect to be paid for that. We do have exceptions in Health through Medicare where it is a service based fee but do you see the teachers agreeing to that Grin Grin Grin Grin
As for the Private health insurance rebate, i have a fundamental objection to it, as i do to the FTB bonus, bb bonus and any other handout or cash payment. You want private you pay for it, but by having it you do not absolve yourself of your responsibility to the community as a whole. That is a short road to social disaster and so typical of the "ME" generations selfish thinking, as is the current entitlement mentality that seems to think they should get a bonus payment for everything. Government is for services not to supplement your income.


Well said nairbe

SOB
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Dooley
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Re: Should taxpayer pay for private education?
Reply #264 - May 13th, 2012 at 1:39pm
 
There is a direct relationship between the fall in standards of building and their overall state in disrepair and the increase in government funding of private school infrastructure. Federal, State and Local government funding once mainly directed at public schools is now fragmented across many schooling types. This results in a specific lacl of ability for governments of all levels to deliever the sort of funding to public schools in the past.

All the BS about tax payers not subsidising middle-class private schools is just smoke screen.

If it is really just a matter of choice - then lets go ALL the way down that path and just divide the total amount spent on students by the number of students and give an equal amount to each child to submit to the school of their parents choice?

The reason ALL private school advocates don't agree with this fair and just method of dividing the education funding pie, is because it is just that - fair and just and that would mean private schools wouldn't be able to gouge funding allocatons through the various shady dealings and corrupt methods they use to acquire the extra funding they now do.
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longweekend58
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Re: Should taxpayer pay for private education?
Reply #265 - May 13th, 2012 at 4:48pm
 
nairbe wrote on May 13th, 2012 at 1:01pm:
Soren wrote on May 12th, 2012 at 11:31pm:
nairbe wrote on May 12th, 2012 at 12:13pm:
Soren wrote on May 11th, 2012 at 10:51pm:
nairbe wrote on May 11th, 2012 at 8:23pm:
Why would i pay tax so someone can send their child to Kings. we pay for public education if you want different pay for it.


They are paying more tax than you do, so they are not using any of your tax. PLUS they pay the fees for Kings.
What's your problem then?



They have freely chosen to move outside of the public system. Free country i am glad they have the choice and the wealth to pay for it. but they have chosen to be outside the public system so don't expect it to be paid for. Large sums of tax payers money goes to prop up what are predominately church schools, how about the church pay.



SO their proportion of tax money is not available to them because they chose not to spend it in the government shop, sorry, government school?

How about making private school fees tax deductible then? They pay tax, the tax is not paid by the government to the private schools - give it back to the parents then. Only fair. Why should their tax money be spent on the public schools if they do not send their own kids to those schools.

Make school fees tax deductible, at least.


There seems to be a fundamental problem in the way you reason this out. You are centred around the "ME" mentality. As i previously said;

Quote:
they have chosen to be outside the public system so don't expect it to be paid for.


We all pay tax, that tax is paid to the benefit of the community as a whole, not individually. Taxes go to build roads, hospitals, schools, defence and some other stuff that politicians like to feel important about. These things are then available to us all and in so doing help to create a healthy, educated and secure community that is to the advantage of all. When you choose of your own free will to use, create or advantage from a service that is outside of that system then why do you expect to be paid for that. We do have exceptions in Health through Medicare where it is a service based fee but do you see the teachers agreeing to that Grin Grin Grin Grin
As for the Private health insurance rebate, i have a fundamental objection to it, as i do to the FTB bonus, bb bonus and any other handout or cash payment. You want private you pay for it, but by having it you do not absolve yourself of your responsibility to the community as a whole. That is a short road to social disaster and so typical of the "ME" generations selfish thinking, as is the current entitlement mentality that seems to think they should get a bonus payment for everything. Government is for services not to supplement your income.


Why do you think that? Do you think it is intrinsicallyfair to demand people pay high taxes to support a lousy public system and then punish them for using the private route and creating more space for public users? It is a terrible argument built entirely upon envy. The argument of 'if you want private pay for it' isnt correct. it is 'if you want private pay for it plus pay for MY publci services as well'. Nothing fair about that at all.

The argument is a complex oine that is usually reduced to nothing more than ideology. And system that seeks to remove choice thru penatlies is inherently bad.
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longweekend58
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Re: Should taxpayer pay for private education?
Reply #266 - May 13th, 2012 at 4:49pm
 
Dooley wrote on May 13th, 2012 at 1:39pm:
There is a direct relationship between the fall in standards of building and their overall state in disrepair and the increase in government funding of private school infrastructure. Federal, State and Local government funding once mainly directed at public schools is now fragmented across many schooling types. This results in a specific lacl of ability for governments of all levels to deliever the sort of funding to public schools in the past.

All the BS about tax payers not subsidising middle-class private schools is just smoke screen.

If it is really just a matter of choice - then lets go ALL the way down that path and just divide the total amount spent on students by the number of students and give an equal amount to each child to submit to the school of their parents choice?
The reason ALL private school advocates don't agree with this fair and just method of dividing the education funding pie, is because it is just that - fair and just and that would mean private schools wouldn't be able to gouge funding allocatons through the various shady dealings and corrupt methods they use to acquire the extra funding they now do.


this would mean that public shools would receive less and private schools more. I dont know what you intended with your post but you very effectively destroyed your own positino. well done!
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AUSSIE: "Speaking for myself, I could not care less about 298 human beings having their life snuffed out in a nano-second, or what impact that loss has on Members of their family, their parents..."
 
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hawil
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Re: Should taxpayer pay for private education?
Reply #267 - May 13th, 2012 at 6:27pm
 
longweekend58 wrote on May 12th, 2012 at 7:57pm:
Your link is worthless because it comes from the education union which is - to put it mildly - hopelessly left-wing and terribly biased against private ANYTHING. everytime this debate comes out they trot out the same old arguments which are routinely destroyed by every quater of the industry and politics. the union always claims that priavet schools get more funding than public schools because they conveniently ignored state govt funding (which is where the bulk of funding comes from).

yes SOB, you are an idiot and 18 pages of min-numbing stupidity has only confirmed that you make even less sense that lastnail and frankly, few would have thought that possible.


Rather rude, and you either don't bother to check your spelling, or are not able to write correctly, and I don't think that that is the case.
You and freediver still have not made any comment on my last comment about "Elitism"
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nairbe
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Re: Should taxpayer pay for private education?
Reply #268 - May 13th, 2012 at 6:31pm
 
longweekend58 wrote on May 13th, 2012 at 4:48pm:
nairbe wrote on May 13th, 2012 at 1:01pm:
Soren wrote on May 12th, 2012 at 11:31pm:
nairbe wrote on May 12th, 2012 at 12:13pm:
Soren wrote on May 11th, 2012 at 10:51pm:
nairbe wrote on May 11th, 2012 at 8:23pm:
Why would i pay tax so someone can send their child to Kings. we pay for public education if you want different pay for it.


They are paying more tax than you do, so they are not using any of your tax. PLUS they pay the fees for Kings.
What's your problem then?



They have freely chosen to move outside of the public system. Free country i am glad they have the choice and the wealth to pay for it. but they have chosen to be outside the public system so don't expect it to be paid for. Large sums of tax payers money goes to prop up what are predominately church schools, how about the church pay.



SO their proportion of tax money is not available to them because they chose not to spend it in the government shop, sorry, government school?

How about making private school fees tax deductible then? They pay tax, the tax is not paid by the government to the private schools - give it back to the parents then. Only fair. Why should their tax money be spent on the public schools if they do not send their own kids to those schools.

Make school fees tax deductible, at least.


There seems to be a fundamental problem in the way you reason this out. You are centred around the "ME" mentality. As i previously said;

Quote:
they have chosen to be outside the public system so don't expect it to be paid for.


We all pay tax, that tax is paid to the benefit of the community as a whole, not individually. Taxes go to build roads, hospitals, schools, defence and some other stuff that politicians like to feel important about. These things are then available to us all and in so doing help to create a healthy, educated and secure community that is to the advantage of all. When you choose of your own free will to use, create or advantage from a service that is outside of that system then why do you expect to be paid for that. We do have exceptions in Health through Medicare where it is a service based fee but do you see the teachers agreeing to that Grin Grin Grin Grin
As for the Private health insurance rebate, i have a fundamental objection to it, as i do to the FTB bonus, bb bonus and any other handout or cash payment. You want private you pay for it, but by having it you do not absolve yourself of your responsibility to the community as a whole. That is a short road to social disaster and so typical of the "ME" generations selfish thinking, as is the current entitlement mentality that seems to think they should get a bonus payment for everything. Government is for services not to supplement your income.


Why do you think that? Do you think it is intrinsicallyfair to demand people pay high taxes to support a lousy public system and then punish them for using the private route and creating more space for public users? It is a terrible argument built entirely upon envy. The argument of 'if you want private pay for it' isnt correct. it is 'if you want private pay for it plus pay for MY publci services as well'. Nothing fair about that at all.

The argument is a complex oine that is usually reduced to nothing more than ideology. And system that seeks to remove choice thru penatlies is inherently bad.


Oh you are a sad and pathetic individual, don't you even know an outright Liberal policy when it hits you? spose not as the liberal party don't use them either anymore, Menzies must be rolling in his grave. It is simple and basic, has been the way and worked for eons but i don't expect the ignorant extreme to understand as they would object to anything to stay to the right of common sense.
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Soren
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Re: Should taxpayer pay for private education?
Reply #269 - May 13th, 2012 at 6:46pm
 
Annie Anthrax wrote on May 12th, 2012 at 3:28pm:
Soren wrote on May 12th, 2012 at 12:30pm:
Annie Anthrax wrote on May 12th, 2012 at 11:58am:


Quote:
As for Muslims in education -I asked you to look around in your circle of Lebanese high achievers , like everyone else should look in their own circles, and tell me if anyone has been held back by lack of 'adequate resources' for state schools.


No. They've all been very lucky and they're doing their best to reach their potential.



Lucky??
Are you Chinese/Malaysian?



You know I'm not. What has it to do with luck?


You introduced the notion, you silly bint.

SO if not Chinese, are you are Malay or Bumiputera? Or Indian?



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