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Falah: Jews are 'parasites' (Read 35415 times)
freediver
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Falah: Jews are 'parasites'
Jan 25th, 2012 at 7:27pm
 
Please don't accuse Falah of antisemitism (or hating Jews for that matter) or Abu will be forced to delete this thread - again. Still not exactly sure why the first one was deleted.



Does this come with the territory if you revert to Islam?

Love the Merchant of Venice reference. It really adds validity to your views LOL.

falah wrote on Jan 24th, 2012 at 6:39pm:
In more than 2000 years, the Jews have never really had a great civilisation have they?

What is it that parasites do? They suck the resources out of their host with little regard for the well-being of the host.

Some might say that the Jewish religion enables this type of activity with the idea of gentiles being sub-humans wo are legitimate targets of Jewish harm. Jews allowed themselves to offer interest-based loans to non-Jews and grew rich in the process.

This mainly occured when Europeans monarchies -desparate for resource to finance their wars - began allowing the Jews to offer interest-based loans.

....

William Shakespeare's book The Merchant of Venice demonstrates how medieval Europeans viewed the Jews and their money-lending practices.

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Re: Falah: Jews are 'parasites'
Reply #1 - Jan 25th, 2012 at 8:21pm
 
What you have written is a lie. I didn't actually say "Jews are parasites".

But does the Jewish religion itself encourage parasticism? Does not Judaism encourage parasitic behaviour if it teaches that it is OK to steal from and cheat non-Jews?

Not every Jew is a parasite. But is it their religion which has prevented them from having established an empire in the last 2000+ years? 

The Merchant of Venice is a Christian British portrayal of medieval Jews...and pretty tame compared to some of the stories about Jews drinking children's blood that were common in Europe at the time.

I raised the issue of the Merchant of Venice to illustrate that there was a time when Christian Europeans disapproved of usury-based money lending. It is only since it has become widely accepted in Europe that Jews have managed togain influence.

If you have an issue with The Merchant of Venice, then I suggest you take it up with William Shakespeare.
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« Last Edit: Jan 25th, 2012 at 8:33pm by falah »  

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Re: Falah: Jews are 'parasites'
Reply #2 - Jan 25th, 2012 at 9:48pm
 
Quote:
Not every Jew is a parasite.


You are too generous Falah.

Quote:
The Merchant of Venice is a Christian British portrayal of medieval Jews...and pretty tame compared to some of the stories about Jews drinking children's blood that were common in Europe at the time.


Nice of you to hold back like that. You could have really proven your point about Jews with a less polite portrayal.

Quote:
If you have an issue with The Merchant of Venice, then I suggest you take it up with William Shakespeare.


I don't think Bill ever pretended to have written an historical piece.
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Re: Falah: Jews are 'parasites'
Reply #3 - Jan 25th, 2012 at 10:27pm
 
fd, do you mind to recant your false claims about Falah's view of Jews?

In fact, if you were a decent chap, you'd go one step further and apologise to him.
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Re: Falah: Jews are 'parasites'
Reply #4 - Jan 25th, 2012 at 10:40pm
 
Which claims would that be?
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Re: Falah: Jews are 'parasites'
Reply #5 - Jan 26th, 2012 at 12:24pm
 
abu_rashid wrote on Jan 25th, 2012 at 10:27pm:

fd, do you mind to recant your false claims about Falah's view of Jews?

In fact, if you were a decent chap, you'd go one step further and apologise to him.




Abu,

Didn't falah  vilify all Jewish people ???


falah.....
Quote:

In more than 2000 years, the Jews have never really had a great civilisation have they?
What is it that parasites do? They suck the resources out of their host with little regard for the well-being of the host.


http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1327261577/28#28


Abu,
Aren't there laws in Australia against the vilification of ethnic groups ???

While Jewish people are also a religious group, the Jewish people are mostly recognised as being an ethnic group.

And isn't that the context in which falah made the comments which he did, the context of ethnicity?




Abu,
Shouldn't it be falah who makes an apology, to the Jewish people ???





+++

Hey falah, this would be a good forum, for you to apologise in.


......Yadda, waiting for falah's response.



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"....And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead." Luke 16:31
 
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Re: Falah: Jews are 'parasites'
Reply #6 - Jan 26th, 2012 at 12:37pm
 
falah wrote on Jan 25th, 2012 at 8:21pm:
What you have written is a lie. I didn't actually say "Jews are parasites".

But does the Jewish religion itself encourage parasticism?




falah,

As you well know, not all Jews are religious.

But you did not make any distinction, about which Jews you were referring to.

falah.....
Quote:

In more than 2000 years, the Jews have never really had a great civilisation have they?
What is it that parasites do? They suck the resources out of their host with little regard for the well-being of the host.


http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1327261577/28#28






+++

falah wrote on Jan 25th, 2012 at 8:21pm:

Does not Judaism encourage parasitic behaviour if it teaches that it is OK to steal from and cheat non-Jews?





No.

No.

No.

e.g.
The RELIGIOUS LAWS of Judaism state.....

Exodus 12:49
One law shall be to him that is homeborn, and unto the stranger that sojourneth among you.

Exodus 22:21
Thou shalt neither vex a stranger, nor oppress him...

Exodus 23:9
Also thou shalt not oppress a stranger...

Leviticus 19:33
And if a stranger sojourn with thee in your land, ye shall not vex him.
34  But the stranger that dwelleth with you shall be unto you as one born among you, and thou shalt love him as thyself...


n.b.
.....and thou shalt love him as thyself

Deuteronomy 1:16
And I charged your judges at that time, saying, Hear the causes between your brethren, and judge righteously between every man and his brother, and the stranger that is with him.

Deuteronomy 10:17-19
For the LORD your God... loveth the stranger, ...Love ye therefore the stranger:
for ye were strangers in the land of Egypt.

Deuteronomy 24:17
Thou shalt not pervert the judgment of the stranger, nor of the fatherless; nor take a widow's raiment to pledge:
18  But thou shalt remember that thou wast a bondman in Egypt, and the LORD thy God redeemed thee thence: therefore I command thee to do this thing.

Deuteronomy 27:19
Cursed be he that perverteth the judgment of the stranger...


falah.....
"Does not Judaism encourage parasitic behaviour if it teaches that it is OK to steal from and cheat non-Jews?"


Duh ???

No.





falah wrote on Jan 25th, 2012 at 8:21pm:
Not every Jew is a parasite. But is it their religion which has prevented them from having established an empire in the last 2000+ years? 

The Merchant of Venice is a Christian British portrayal of medieval Jews...and pretty tame compared to some of the stories about Jews drinking children's blood that were common in Europe at the time.

I raised the issue of the Merchant of Venice to illustrate that there was a time when Christian Europeans disapproved of usury-based money lending. It is only since it has become widely accepted in Europe that Jews have managed togain influence.

If you have an issue with The Merchant of Venice, then I suggest you take it up with William Shakespeare.

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"....And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead." Luke 16:31
 
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Re: Falah: Jews are 'parasites'
Reply #7 - Jan 26th, 2012 at 8:30pm
 
Yadda,

I'm thoroughly amazed that every time something about the Bible is shown to you, you thrust your fingers into your ears and quote the verse about not vexing people. When it's clearly shown to you the Bible commanded to vex people, you come up with the excuse of them being people who deserved to be vexed....

Yet when you read 1 passage from the Qur'an completely out of context, you instantly hold it up as proof Islam is supposedly an oppressive and evil religion, and refuse to even read the verses around it which give it context.

You are the epitome of hypocrisy.
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Re: Falah: Jews are 'parasites'
Reply #8 - Jan 26th, 2012 at 8:56pm
 
abu_rashid wrote on Jan 26th, 2012 at 8:30pm:
Yadda,

I'm thoroughly amazed that every time something about the Bible is shown to you, you thrust your fingers into your ears and quote the verse about not vexing people. When it's clearly shown to you the Bible commanded to vex people, you come up with the excuse of them being people who deserved to be vexed....



Yet when you read 1 passage from the Qur'an completely out of context, you instantly hold it up as proof Islam is supposedly an oppressive and evil religion, and refuse to even read the verses around it which give it context.




You are the epitome of hypocrisy.





Abu,

As you well know, the Koran is set out by 'topic', and has almost no context presented within its verses.

The Koran is set out in an unstructured format, without any narrative, sequential structure, to present context.




This is unlike most of the books of the OT Bible.

Almost all of the books of the OT Bible have a sequential, narrative, structure.






+++

A FEW VERSES FROM THE THE KORAN, AS AN EXAMPLE OF THE NARRATIVE-LESS 'STRUCTURE' OF THE KORAN......



".....and [you] refuse to even read the verses around it which give it context...."


Where is the narrative structure, which reveals the context Abu ???


003.104
YUSUFALI: Let there arise out of you a band of people inviting to all that is good, enjoining what is right, and forbidding what is wrong: They are the ones to attain felicity.

003.105
YUSUFALI: Be not like those who are divided amongst themselves and fall into disputations after receiving Clear Signs: For them is a dreadful penalty,-

003.106
YUSUFALI: On the Day when some faces will be (lit up with) white, and some faces will be (in the gloom of) black: To those whose faces will be black, (will be said): "Did ye reject Faith after accepting it? Taste then the penalty for rejecting Faith."

003.107
YUSUFALI: But those whose faces will be (lit with) white,- they will be in (the light of) Allah's mercy: therein to dwell (for ever).

003.108
YUSUFALI: These are the Signs of Allah: We rehearse them to thee in Truth: And Allah means no injustice to any of His creatures.

003.109
YUSUFALI: To Allah belongs all that is in the heavens and on earth: To Him do all questions go back (for decision).

003.110
YUSUFALI: Ye are the best of peoples, evolved for mankind, enjoining what is right, forbidding what is wrong, and believing in Allah. If only the People of the Book had faith, it were best for them: among them are some who have faith, but most of them are perverted transgressors.

003.111
YUSUFALI: They will do you no harm, barring a trifling annoyance; if they come out to fight you, they will show you their backs, and no help shall they get.




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"....And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead." Luke 16:31
 
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Re: Falah: Jews are 'parasites'
Reply #9 - Jan 26th, 2012 at 9:14pm
 
Abu, have you changed your mind about me apologising to Falah?
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Re: Falah: Jews are 'parasites'
Reply #10 - Jan 26th, 2012 at 9:18pm
 

A FEW MORE VERSES FROM THE THE KORAN, AS AN EXAMPLE OF THE NARRATIVE-LESS 'STRUCTURE' OF THE KORAN......



".....and [you] refuse to even read the verses around it which give it context...."


Allah says......

"O ye who believe! take not the Jews and the Christians for your friends......And he amongst you that turns to them (for friendship) is of them."


Where is the narrative structure, which reveals the context Abu ???


005.046
YUSUFALI: And in their footsteps We sent Jesus the son of Mary, confirming the Law that had come before him: We sent him the Gospel: therein was guidance and light, and confirmation of the Law that had come before him: a guidance and an admonition to those who fear Allah.

005.047
YUSUFALI: Let the people of the Gospel judge by what Allah hath revealed therein. If any do fail to judge by (the light of) what Allah hath revealed, they are (no better than) those who rebel.

005.048
YUSUFALI: To thee We sent the Scripture in truth, confirming the scripture that came before it, and guarding it in safety: so judge between them by what Allah hath revealed, and follow not their vain desires, diverging from the Truth that hath come to thee. To each among you have we prescribed a law and an open way. If Allah had so willed, He would have made you a single people, but (His plan is) to test you in what He hath given you: so strive as in a race in all virtues. The goal of you all is to Allah; it is He that will show you the truth of the matters in which ye dispute;

005.049
YUSUFALI: And this (He commands): Judge thou between them by what Allah hath revealed, and follow not their vain desires, but beware of them lest they beguile thee from any of that (teaching) which Allah hath sent down to thee. And if they turn away, be assured that for some of their crime it is Allah's purpose to punish them. And truly most men are rebellious.

005.050
YUSUFALI: Do they then seek after a judgment of (the days of) ignorance? But who, for a people whose faith is assured, can give better judgment than Allah?

005.051
YUSUFALI: O ye who believe! take not the Jews and the Christians for your friends and protectors: They are but friends and protectors to each other. And he amongst you that turns to them (for friendship) is of them. Verily Allah guideth not a people unjust.

005.052
YUSUFALI: Those in whose hearts is a disease - thou seest how eagerly they run about amongst them, saying: "We do fear lest a change of fortune bring us disaster." Ah! perhaps Allah will give (thee) victory, or a decision according to His will. Then will they repent of the thoughts which they secretly harboured in their hearts.

005.053
YUSUFALI: And those who believe will say: "Are these the men who swore their strongest oaths by Allah, that they were with you?" All that they do will be in vain, and they will fall into (nothing but) ruin.

005.054
YUSUFALI: O ye who believe! if any from among you turn back from his Faith, soon will Allah produce a people whom He will love as they will love Him,- lowly with the believers, mighty against the rejecters, fighting in the way of Allah, and never afraid of the reproaches of such as find fault. That is the grace of Allah, which He will bestow on whom He pleaseth. And Allah encompasseth all, and He knoweth all things.

005.055
YUSUFALI: Your (real) friends are (no less than) Allah, His Messenger, and the (fellowship of) believers,- those who establish regular prayers and regular charity, and they bow down humbly (in worship).


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Re: Falah: Jews are 'parasites'
Reply #11 - Jan 27th, 2012 at 9:35am
 
I'm pretty sure I have pointed out to you before that the word translated here as "friends" does not mean friends in the sense that we understand it in English.

There are several words in Arabic that overlap semantically to some degree with the English word "friend", and this is one of them, but it refers to a relationship that is more aptly described as a protector, ally, guardian. It is not a symmetric peer-based friendship as you are perceiving it to be.

The word in question is wali (plural awliya) and one would NEVER in Arabic say "Hey mum I am going to hang out  with my awliya", it makes no sense at all.

Here is a better translation:

"O you who believe! Take not the Jews and the Christians as Auliya' (friends, protectors, helpers), they are but Auliya' of each other. And if any amongst you takes them (as Auliya'), then surely he is one of them. Verily, Allah guides not those people who are the Zalimun (polytheists and wrong-doers and unjust)."

If we look at the French translation we find also:

Ô les croyants! Ne prenez pas pour alliés les Juifs et les Chrétiens; ils sont alliés les uns des autres. Et celui d'entre vous qui les prend pour alliés, devient un des leurs. Allah ne guide certes pas les gens injustes.

I'm sure you can work out what that word means, even if you don't speak French.

In Indonesian the word "pemimpin" is used, which basically means "leaders".
In German the word "Beschützern" is used, which means "protectors".
In Bosnian the word "zaštitnici" is used, which means "protectors".

Quite clearly the English word "friends" does not accurately capture the meaning of the word "awliya".

And anyway even if it did, I don't see what your problem with that is? Tell me, how many Muslims have you befriended?
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Re: Falah: Jews are 'parasites'
Reply #12 - Jan 27th, 2012 at 12:48pm
 
Abu, how come sometimes you say that the arabic word has subtly different meanings to the English, whereas other times (eg treason) you insist that the Islamic meaning is the one true meaning, so for example treason and apostasy are actually the same thing and you cannot tell the difference any more, even when it comes to non-Muslim Americans committing treason.

Do you just go with whatever saves you the trouble of coming up with a rational argument?
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Re: Falah: Jews are 'parasites'
Reply #13 - Jan 27th, 2012 at 1:51pm
 
abu_rashid wrote on Jan 27th, 2012 at 9:35am:
I'm pretty sure I have pointed out to you before that the word translated here as "friends" does not mean friends in the sense that we understand it in English.....

.....Quite clearly the English word "friends" does not accurately capture the meaning of the word "awliya".

And anyway even if it did, I don't see what your problem with that is?

Tell me, how many Muslims have you befriended?






What do i know of moslems, personally ?

In the past, i have met and talked with [only a few] moslems, and i have been a guest in the home of a moslem.

But where i live today, i have no 'opportunity' to come into personal contact with moslems.



But regarding my opinion of ISLAM/moslems Abu, shouldn't i legitimately be allowed to form my opinion of moslems [to form my opinion of their 'society'], based upon my understanding of their examined philosophy ?

And to form my opinion of 'moslem society', based upon how moslems themselves present themselves, in the world ?


+++

Abu,

I would trust moslems, if i did not know that moslems are 'openly' a deceitful people.

Personally, i am convinced that moslems typically, only tell the truth, about their relationship with infidels,
...when moslems talk among themselves.


It is my opinion, that moslems typically, ARE LIARS, and will blatantly, and intentionally, and deceitfully misrepresent ISLAM to infidels, whenever they are talking to infidels.




Abu,
Why would i hold such an opinion about moslems?

e.g.
Google;
undercover mosque


Google;
taqiyya - the muslim doctrine of deceit


Google;
we smile to the face "while our hearts curse them"




How Taqiyya Alters Islams Rules of War

http://www.meforum.org/2538/taqiyya-islam-rules-of-war


+++

DECEIT EXAMPLE #1,
GOOD MOSLEM SPEAKS TO NON-MOSLEM AUDIENCE - blatant deceit
A UK moslem *community leader*, speaking in the wake of the London 7/7 bombing;
"We condemn the killing of all innocent civilians."


#1,
THE VERY SAME GOOD MOSLEM SPEAKS TO A *MOSLEM* AUDIENCE
"...Later when he addressed his own followers he explained that he had in fact been referring only to Muslims as only they were innocent: "Yes I condemn killing any innocent people, but not any kuffar." "
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/article552594.ece




DECEIT EXAMPLE #2,
GOOD MOSLEM SPEAKS TO NON-MOSLEM AUDIENCE - blatant deceit
"The Undercover Mosque: The return"
"A group of Christians visiting the mosque and the preacher and the Women's Circle treat [the Christians] kindly and talk about,
'We're all people of the book and we all come from the same history'."


#2,
SAME GOOD MOSLEM SPEAKS TO A *MOSLEM* AUDIENCE
"Just as soon as that group of visitors [the Christians] leaves, the language changes completely. 'CHRISTIANITY IS VILE', the preacher says....."

Source;
ABC Radio National Religion interview transcript  - "The Undercover Mosque: The return"
".....Stephen Crittenden: .....your program highlights a certain kind of duplicity. When they're caught out, individuals don't miss a [beat], they just say they've been taken out of context....
David Henshaw: ......Regent's Park Mosque is officially committed to inter-faith dialogue....."
http://www.abc.net.au/rn/religionreport/stories/2008/2360820.htm#transcript

IMO, what 'religious' non-moslems need to realise, is that the intentional, blatant deceit, coming from the lips of moslems, lies about a 'tolerant', 'peaceful' ISLAM, is often delivered as part of a moslem 'inter-faith dialogue', with people of other faiths.




DECEIT EXAMPLE #3,
GOOD MOSLEM SPEAKS TO A *MOSLEM* AUDIENCE
Use children as troops, says cleric [Sheik Feiz Mohammed]
January 18, 2007
..."We want to have children and offer them as soldiers...Teach them this: There is nothing more beloved to me than wanting to die as a mujahid (holy warrior). Put in their soft, tender hearts the zeal of jihad and a love of martyrdom."
......"The peak, the pinnacle, the crest, the highest point, the pivot, the summit of Islam is jihad," he declares in the film, before denouncing "kaffirs" (non-Muslims).
"Kaffir is the worst word ever written, a sign of infidelity, disbelief, filth, a sign of dirt."
http://news.ninemsn.com.au/article.aspx?id=94224
http://www.jihadwatch.org/archives/014863.php

#3,
SAME GOOD MOSLEM SPEAKS TO NON-MOSLEM AUDIENCE - blatant deceit
Fiery Australian cleric claims jihad remarks were misunderstood
"The jihad I speak of is not one of violence,"...
"I don't believe in suicide bombing. I don't believe in violence against others," he said. "We denounce that. This is not Islamic law and it is not moral."

http://www.jihadwatch.org/2007/01/fiery-australian-cleric-claims-jihad-remarks-w...

Sheik Feiz declares;
"....violence against others,..This is not Islamic law and it is not moral.";


In the face of this open declaration in the Koran.....

"O ye who believe! Fight those of the disbelievers who are near to you, and let them find harshness in you, and know that Allah is with those who keep their duty (unto Him)."
Koran 9.123





Raymond Ibrahim: How Circumstance Dictates Islamic Behavior

[in dealings with infidels, moslems should....] Preach peace when weak, wage war when strong.

http://www.jihadwatch.org/2012/01/raymond-ibrahim-how-circumstance-dictates-isla...


And there are lots, lots, more examples available of the moslem deceit and duplicity, in their everyday 'conversation' with non-moslems.



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Re: Falah: Jews are 'parasites'
Reply #14 - Jan 27th, 2012 at 3:11pm
 
freediver wrote on Jan 27th, 2012 at 12:48pm:
Abu, how come sometimes you say that the arabic word has subtly different meanings to the English, whereas other times (eg treason) you insist that the Islamic meaning is the one true meaning, so for example treason and apostasy are actually the same thing and you cannot tell the difference any more, even when it comes to non-Muslim Americans committing treason.


First and foremost the Qur'an is in Arabic, the meanings of the words are not beholden to a "rough translation" into English. You can't seem to fathom this one.

In Arabic the word wali simply does not mean friend as we understand it in English. As an example, the governor of a province is also called a wali... can the English word "friend" also be used in this context? Definitely not. It's also the word for "saint", can the English word "friend" be used in this context? Again, definitely not. If you cannot comprehend that semantic mappings do not identically map over between languages, then I'm afraid I'm banging my head against a brick wall. The Arabic word that most accurately resembles the English "friend" is either sadiq or sahib, and even then it's still a little different. But wali is nothing like the English word at all.

That has nothing to do with the word for apostasy and treason in Islam though, so please don't try to confuse the two because you obviously don't understand either.

Now onto apostasy.

The Islamic word translated as apostasy is riddah, and it's meanings are: defection, desertion, backsliding, apostasy, lapse. As you can see it could quite easily cover both the meanings of apostasy and treason in English.

What is more important though is that the Islamic texts which describe riddah describe it as an act of defection, desertion and treason.

"The blood of a man who is a Muslim is not lawful (i.e. cannot be lawfully shed), save if he belongs to one of three (classes): a married man who is an adulterer; life for a life (i.e. for murder); one who is a deserter of his religion, abandoning the community.”
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