Forum

 
  Back to OzPolitic.com   Welcome, Guest. Please Login or Register
  Forum Home Album HelpSearch Recent Rules LoginRegister  
 

Pages: 1 2 3 4 5 6 
Send Topic Print
Electric Vehicle take-up/transition. (Read 8326 times)
lee
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Australian Politics

Posts: 21068
Gender: male
Re: Electric Vehicle take-up/transition.
Reply #45 - Feb 2nd, 2021 at 2:28pm
 
Prime Minister for Canyons wrote on Feb 2nd, 2021 at 2:03pm:
Jesus christ. With.



So they have fixed the problem and coyly just haven't said so. Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin
Back to top
 
 
IP Logged
 
Prime Minister for Canyons
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Australian Politics

Posts: 26906
Canberra
Gender: male
Re: Electric Vehicle take-up/transition.
Reply #46 - Feb 2nd, 2021 at 2:29pm
 
lee wrote on Feb 2nd, 2021 at 2:28pm:
Prime Minister for Canyons wrote on Feb 2nd, 2021 at 2:03pm:
Jesus christ. With.



So they have fixed the problem and coyly just haven't said so. Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin



Or they didn't feel the need to say they did and instyead just decided building a prototype that works would show they fixed it. FMD.
Back to top
 

In a time of universal deceit — telling the truth is a revolutionary act.

No evidence whatsoever it can be attributed to George Orwell or Eric Arthur Blair (in fact the same guy)
 
IP Logged
 
lee
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Australian Politics

Posts: 21068
Gender: male
Re: Electric Vehicle take-up/transition.
Reply #47 - Feb 2nd, 2021 at 2:36pm
 
Prime Minister for Canyons wrote on Feb 2nd, 2021 at 2:29pm:
Or they didn't feel the need to say they did and instyead just decided building a prototype that works would show they fixed it.



Wow. And I thought Toyota was a successful company. And would trumpet its wins. Wink
Back to top
 
 
IP Logged
 
Prime Minister for Canyons
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Australian Politics

Posts: 26906
Canberra
Gender: male
Re: Electric Vehicle take-up/transition.
Reply #48 - Feb 2nd, 2021 at 2:37pm
 
lee wrote on Feb 2nd, 2021 at 2:36pm:
Prime Minister for Canyons wrote on Feb 2nd, 2021 at 2:29pm:
Or they didn't feel the need to say they did and instyead just decided building a prototype that works would show they fixed it.



Wow. And I thought Toyota was a successful company. And would trumpet its wins. Wink




Yeah, usually by actually just winning. E.g. building a working prototype.

Back to top
 

In a time of universal deceit — telling the truth is a revolutionary act.

No evidence whatsoever it can be attributed to George Orwell or Eric Arthur Blair (in fact the same guy)
 
IP Logged
 
Frank
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Australian Politics

Posts: 58838
Gender: male
Re: Electric Vehicle take-up/transition.
Reply #49 - Feb 2nd, 2021 at 5:29pm
 
lee wrote on Jan 4th, 2021 at 4:08pm:
Mix_Master wrote on Jan 4th, 2021 at 4:04pm:
Makes me wonder just "when" is the right time to get rid of the petrol vehicles (while some money can still be had for them), and to get into an electric vehicle (again, presumably when they aren't as damnably expensive to "get into", and there is sufficient charging infrastructure around for longer distance driving etc.)



As well as "sufficient charging infrastructure" the grid will need far more power.



Indeed, Lee.

My supplementary questions to all the Al Gore'blimeys: and where will that extra power come from, to recharge all those electric cars?


Back to top
 

Estragon: I can’t go on like this.
Vladimir: That’s what you think.
 
IP Logged
 
aquascoot
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Australian Politics

Posts: 37902
Gender: male
Re: Electric Vehicle take-up/transition.
Reply #50 - Feb 2nd, 2021 at 6:42pm
 
its a confusing field but i trust musk

he is a steve jobs type figure

he is the paradigm shift.
Back to top
 
 
IP Logged
 
Prime Minister for Canyons
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Australian Politics

Posts: 26906
Canberra
Gender: male
Re: Electric Vehicle take-up/transition.
Reply #51 - Feb 2nd, 2021 at 8:20pm
 
Frank wrote on Feb 2nd, 2021 at 5:29pm:
lee wrote on Jan 4th, 2021 at 4:08pm:
Mix_Master wrote on Jan 4th, 2021 at 4:04pm:
Makes me wonder just "when" is the right time to get rid of the petrol vehicles (while some money can still be had for them), and to get into an electric vehicle (again, presumably when they aren't as damnably expensive to "get into", and there is sufficient charging infrastructure around for longer distance driving etc.)



As well as "sufficient charging infrastructure" the grid will need far more power.



Indeed, Lee.

My supplementary questions to all the Al Gore'blimeys: and where will that extra power come from, to recharge all those electric cars?




Where will any of our power needs com e from
Back to top
 

In a time of universal deceit — telling the truth is a revolutionary act.

No evidence whatsoever it can be attributed to George Orwell or Eric Arthur Blair (in fact the same guy)
 
IP Logged
 
Mix_Master
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Australian Politics

Posts: 999
Gender: male
Re: Electric Vehicle take-up/transition.
Reply #52 - Feb 3rd, 2021 at 7:29am
 
Prime Minister for Canyons wrote on Feb 2nd, 2021 at 11:36am:
https://www.news.com.au/technology/motoring/hitech/toyota-to-showcase-new-solid-...

There are signs things are looking up for 2021.

COVID-19 stalled a groundbreaking advancements in the development of electric cars, Toyota’s solid-state battery.

The Japanese giant was due to unveil a working prototype of its new electric-car tech at the 2020 Tokyo Olympic Games, which was cancelled due to the pandemic. But according to Asian business publication, the Nikkei, this is now due some next year.

A solid state battery is a huge advancement over the current lithium-ion batteries used in electric cars.

Toyota is preparing to show off game-changing electric car tech in 2021.

In simple terms, a solid-state battery is smaller, faster to charge, more energy dense and less likely to catch fire than current batteries. The main reason is because the battery uses a solid electrolyte instead of a liquid or gel.

Estimates put range at more than 800km and up to 1000km, with the ability to charge in under 10 minutes.

These advancements would enable electric cars to be more practical than most petrol- or diesel-powered cars.

The batteries provide other benefits such as a roomier cabin and greater efficiency due to a lower vehicle weight.

Toyota is aiming for its next-generation batteries to hold about 90 per cent of their charge for up to 30 years, much longer than lithium-ion examples.


"If" that battery tech stacks up in the plethora of what might be termed "normal" usage scenarios (including fixing any of the original issues re: cold climate use/longevity), then yes, it would be very much a game changer.

The next step is getting them to market at a price point similar to comparably equipped ICE vehicles.

Back to top
 
 
IP Logged
 
lee
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Australian Politics

Posts: 21068
Gender: male
Re: Electric Vehicle take-up/transition.
Reply #53 - Feb 3rd, 2021 at 12:23pm
 
Prime Minister for Canyons wrote on Feb 2nd, 2021 at 8:20pm:
Where will any of our power needs com e from



Probably not from renewables. And hen of course there is the back up. Fossil fuels, large batteries. 1200Mw/hours largest battery.

Adelaide -
"It said the battery would be built in stages and have an eventual power capacity of up to 250 megawatts - greater than an existing battery at Hornsdale in South Australia, but less than a 300MW facility planned for a site near Geelong.

"The AGL development differs markedly from existing and other proposed Australian batteries in having a storage capacity of 1,000 megawatt-hours, which equates to a duration of up to four hours."

https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2020/nov/16/agl-long-duration-battery...

So that would seem it will be about 275MW. And the ability to supply 4 hours is dependent on load.
Back to top
 
 
IP Logged
 
Captain Nemo
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Australian Politics

Posts: 15717
Melbourne
Gender: male
Re: Electric Vehicle take-up/transition.
Reply #54 - Feb 5th, 2021 at 10:34am
 
Hmm ... subsidising fleet sales of EVs ... then having those vehicles reach the used car market at a much lower price to help private owners afford an EV.

Not a bad idea actually.  Cool

Australian businesses will be encouraged to invest in plug-in hybrid and electric car fleets in an attempt to increase private uptake by flooding the second-hand market with new vehicle technologies at lower prices.

The Morrison government has ruled out offering taxpayer subsidies for the private uptake of plug-in hybrids and battery electric cars, arguing in its long-awaited strategy that subsidies would not represent value for money in efforts to drive down carbon emissions.


...
The Morrison government has ruled out subsidies for electric vehicles, and is prioritising transition of commercial fleets.CREDIT:BLOOMBERG

Energy Minister Angus Taylor will argue a “fleet first” strategy for new technology passenger vehicles is the smartest way to help Australia’s “planned and managed” transition to low-emission cars, while ensuring charging infrastructure and the national energy grid can support a switch.

Low-emissions vehicles are a key plank in the government’s technology road map, which it will rely on if it is to meet both its Paris emission targets and a potential commitment to net zero by 2050.

Releasing a discussion paper informing the development of Australia’s Future Fuels Strategy, the federal government has identified five priority initiatives it says will make the most impact, including commercial fleets, essential infrastructure and improving information to motorists.

The strategy argues subsidising cars for private sales would cost taxpayers $195 to $747 per tonne of carbon dioxide equivalent, depending on the vehicle type and usage. It said that figure did not present value-for-money when compared to the Emissions Reduction Fund price of $16 per tonne of carbon emitted.

...
Energy Minister Angus Taylor says a “fleet first” strategy was the smartest way to help the transition to low-emission cars.CREDIT:LOUIE DOUVIS

Mr Taylor said it was clear the future of road transport in Australia would be a mix of vehicle technologies and fuels and that Australians were already making the choice to switch to new vehicle technologies where it made economic sense.

“We are optimistic about how quickly the technology cost will reduce for other electric vehicles compared to traditional cars, making it an easier choice for consumers,” Mr Taylor said.

Hybrid sales almost doubled in Australia in the past year, increasing from 31,191 vehicles in 2019 to 60,417. Hybrids made up about 70 per cent of Toyota’s Camry and Rav4 sales, and about half of all Corolla sales in 2020.

Industry experts have criticised the federal government outlook for electric vehicle uptake over the next decade. They argue projections of 26 per cent in December’s Australian greenhouse gas emissions trends to 2030 were overly optimistic because it assumed numbers would spike despite a lack of policy and new state taxes slugging clean cars.

Several car manufacturers, including General Motors, have pledged to end production of petrol engine vehicles within the next decade while Britain has set a 2030 target to ban combustion engines.

The EV sector has also claimed the decisions by Victoria and South Australia to aim road-user taxes at drivers of electric vehicles would prevent the states from reaching their goal of net-zero greenhouse gas emissions by 2050.

The plan justifies a focus on fleets because business vehicles generally travel greater distances than private vehicles, delivering better value-for-money through fuel and maintenance savings from new technologies and offsetting the price premium of buying the new technology.

In 2020, 40 per cent of light vehicles in Australia were sold to businesses.

“Supporting commercial fleet investment in new vehicle technologies will also drive uptake from private users, as fleet vehicles are generally replaced more regularly than private vehicles,” it says.

“This benefits the second-hand market and provides private consumers with second-hand vehicles at lower prices.”

Mr Taylor said the strategy would be underpinned by “significant” government investment, including the $74.5 million Future Fuels Package to invest in charging infrastructure at workplaces and in regional “blackspots”.

A move to electrify Australia’s passenger vehicle fleet was a centrepiece of the 2019 federal election campaign as the Morrison government aggressively criticised Labor’s election pledge that half of all new cars sold in 2030 would be electric.

Mr Taylor said the Coalition’s policy was focused on enabling consumer choice and supporting natural uptake, with government modelling showing Labor’s EV policy would have increased the price of cars by up to $4863 to “force people out of the cars they love and into EVs”.

The transport sector makes up 18 per cent of Australia’s carbon pollution with passenger vehicle emissions projected to drop 1.2 per cent every year to 2030 amid greater uptake of hybrid, electric and fuel-cell vehicles in the national fleet.

...

https://www.theage.com.au/politics/federal/morrison-government-rules-out-subsidi...
Back to top
 

Fire the LIAR in 2028!
WWW  
IP Logged
 
aquascoot
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Australian Politics

Posts: 37902
Gender: male
Re: Electric Vehicle take-up/transition.
Reply #55 - Feb 5th, 2021 at 12:55pm
 
good post captain,

but i dont know about "flooding the market with cheap second hand electric vehicles' unless they can get the cost of batteries way way down.

who wants to buy a second hand electric car at 7 years old if the battery is about to fail and a new one is 10 k
Back to top
 
 
IP Logged
 
Frank
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Australian Politics

Posts: 58838
Gender: male
Re: Electric Vehicle take-up/transition.
Reply #56 - Feb 5th, 2021 at 12:59pm
 
So we will need fossil fuels to generate electricity for the electric cars to go 200 kms, rather than put the fossil fuel directly into the car to go 800-1000 kms.



The solar panels should go into the roads from which electric cars could access it.

In  a few decades....
Back to top
 

Estragon: I can’t go on like this.
Vladimir: That’s what you think.
 
IP Logged
 
Mix_Master
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Australian Politics

Posts: 999
Gender: male
Re: Electric Vehicle take-up/transition.
Reply #57 - Feb 5th, 2021 at 1:14pm
 
I can't help wondering if (when) vehicle manufacturers will start producing vehicles with thin-film solar panels "imprinted" on the upper most surfaces (bonnet, boot and roof) to ostensibly charge the vehicle when at rest/in sunlight. Or possibly even while on the move (to some extent, as a "range extender").

Granted, the technology probably has a way to go before it would be a reliably quick charging method, but I'd be very surprised if it doesn't become a "thing" down the track.

Perhaps Tesla will prototype something like that?
Back to top
 
 
IP Logged
 
Prime Minister for Canyons
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Australian Politics

Posts: 26906
Canberra
Gender: male
Re: Electric Vehicle take-up/transition.
Reply #58 - Feb 5th, 2021 at 1:24pm
 
Pretty sure it had been done in the Prius.
Back to top
 

In a time of universal deceit — telling the truth is a revolutionary act.

No evidence whatsoever it can be attributed to George Orwell or Eric Arthur Blair (in fact the same guy)
 
IP Logged
 
Prime Minister for Canyons
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Australian Politics

Posts: 26906
Canberra
Gender: male
Re: Electric Vehicle take-up/transition.
Reply #59 - Feb 5th, 2021 at 1:25pm
 
Back to top
 

In a time of universal deceit — telling the truth is a revolutionary act.

No evidence whatsoever it can be attributed to George Orwell or Eric Arthur Blair (in fact the same guy)
 
IP Logged
 
Pages: 1 2 3 4 5 6 
Send Topic Print