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Electric Vehicle take-up/transition. (Read 7654 times)
Mix_Master
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Electric Vehicle take-up/transition.
Jan 4th, 2021 at 4:04pm
 
Reading yet another article in The Age, talking about the mooted take-up of EVs (presumably, to "count" as part of a reduced transport sector emissions target).

https://www.theage.com.au/politics/federal/energy-chiefs-accused-of-unjustified-...

Makes me wonder just "when" is the right time to get rid of the petrol vehicles (while some money can still be had for them), and to get into an electric vehicle (again, presumably when they aren't as damnably expensive to "get into", and there is sufficient charging infrastructure around for longer distance driving etc.)

One other question I had was "What happens to the batteries in EVs when they reach end of service life"?

The following is a (necessarily long-winded) discussion of through and post-life use, decommissioning and recycling of Li-ion batteries from EVs.

https://www.nature.com/articles/s41586-019-1682-5

Naturally, questions also arise in respect of the "total" environmental cost of the production, use and ultimate disposal of the batteries.

Are we "trading" one form of environmental damage (fossil fuel emissions), for others?
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« Last Edit: Jan 4th, 2021 at 4:58pm by Mix_Master »  
 
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lee
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Re: Electric Vehicle take-up/transition.
Reply #1 - Jan 4th, 2021 at 4:08pm
 
Mix_Master wrote on Jan 4th, 2021 at 4:04pm:
Makes me wonder just "when" is the right time to get rid of the petrol vehicles (while some money can still be had for them), and to get into an electric vehicle (again, presumably when they aren't as damnably expensive to "get into", and there is sufficient charging infrastructure around for longer distance driving etc.)



As well as "sufficient charging infrastructure" the grid will need far more power.
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Mix_Master
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Re: Electric Vehicle take-up/transition.
Reply #2 - Jan 4th, 2021 at 5:01pm
 
lee wrote on Jan 4th, 2021 at 4:08pm:
Mix_Master wrote on Jan 4th, 2021 at 4:04pm:
Makes me wonder just "when" is the right time to get rid of the petrol vehicles (while some money can still be had for them), and to get into an electric vehicle (again, presumably when they aren't as damnably expensive to "get into", and there is sufficient charging infrastructure around for longer distance driving etc.)



As well as "sufficient charging infrastructure" the grid will need far more power.


Perhaps some of the excess power being produced by roof top solar during the day - the same power the generators are now complaining about and considering charging home solar producers to feed into the grid - could be used to cover some of this extra requirement?
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lee
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Re: Electric Vehicle take-up/transition.
Reply #3 - Jan 4th, 2021 at 5:38pm
 
Mix_Master wrote on Jan 4th, 2021 at 5:01pm:
Perhaps some of the excess power being produced by roof top solar during the day - the same power the generators are now complaining about and considering charging home solar producers to feed into the grid - could be used to cover some of this extra requirement?



Only if you have batteries. At work during the day charge at home at night. Providing the batteries are big enough to give a full charge.
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Re: Electric Vehicle take-up/transition.
Reply #4 - Jan 4th, 2021 at 5:52pm
 
This map is interesting. There are 23 charging stations between Adelaide and Perth. They should get you there, especially as someone drove from Perth to Broome and back, in a Tesla, and there were no charging stations then.


...
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John Smith
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Re: Electric Vehicle take-up/transition.
Reply #5 - Jan 4th, 2021 at 5:54pm
 
lee wrote on Jan 4th, 2021 at 5:38pm:
At work during the day charge at home at night.



Several places I visit have tesla charge stations in their carpark for the staff and mgmt. That will only increase as electric becomes more and more common
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lee
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Re: Electric Vehicle take-up/transition.
Reply #6 - Jan 4th, 2021 at 6:40pm
 
John Smith wrote on Jan 4th, 2021 at 5:54pm:
Several places I visit have tesla charge stations in their carpark for the staff and mgmt. That will only increase as electric becomes more and more common



And that puts extra strain on the grid. Unless of course people use less electricity in their daily lives. But the uptake on things electrical shows no sign of stopping. Wink
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John Smith
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Re: Electric Vehicle take-up/transition.
Reply #7 - Jan 4th, 2021 at 6:53pm
 
lee wrote on Jan 4th, 2021 at 6:40pm:
John Smith wrote on Jan 4th, 2021 at 5:54pm:
Several places I visit have tesla charge stations in their carpark for the staff and mgmt. That will only increase as electric becomes more and more common



And that puts extra strain on the grid. Unless of course people use less electricity in their daily lives. But the uptake on things electrical shows no sign of stopping. Wink



there's a surplus of energy on the grid during the day ...
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lee
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Re: Electric Vehicle take-up/transition.
Reply #8 - Jan 4th, 2021 at 7:02pm
 
John Smith wrote on Jan 4th, 2021 at 6:53pm:
there's a surplus of energy on the grid during the day ...



That must be why AEMO warns of outages. Wink

And with less coal fired power and more solar and wind turbine it can't get better.
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John Smith
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Re: Electric Vehicle take-up/transition.
Reply #9 - Jan 4th, 2021 at 7:10pm
 
lee wrote on Jan 4th, 2021 at 7:02pm:
John Smith wrote on Jan 4th, 2021 at 6:53pm:
there's a surplus of energy on the grid during the day ...



That must be why AEMO warns of outages. Wink

And with less coal fired power and more solar and wind turbine it can't get better.


no, it's why the govt.is giving energy companies the power to remotely switch off your solar panels

https://www.afr.com/companies/energy/operators-get-power-to-switch-off-solar-pan...
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lee
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Re: Electric Vehicle take-up/transition.
Reply #10 - Jan 4th, 2021 at 7:25pm
 
John Smith wrote on Jan 4th, 2021 at 7:10pm:
no, it's why the govt.is giving energy companies the power to remotely switch off your solar panels


Did you read the story?

"The 275,000 solar households in South Australia face periods where power authorities will switch off their rooftop panels remotely under measures designed to improve electricity grid stability."

That is the trouble with renewables. Te power it goes up, it goes down. And the grid gets destabilised.

Meanwhile -

AEMO warns hot summer weather could see blackouts in Victoria

https://www.abc.net.au/radio/programs/am/aemo-warns-hot-summer-weather-could-see...

AEMO warns of increased outages from ageing coal generators

https://reneweconomy.com.au/aemo-warns-of-increased-outages-from-ageing-coal-gen...
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Re: Electric Vehicle take-up/transition.
Reply #11 - Jan 4th, 2021 at 7:33pm
 
Mix_Master wrote on Jan 4th, 2021 at 4:04pm:
Reading yet another article in The Age, talking about the mooted take-up of EVs (presumably, to "count" as part of a reduced transport sector emissions target).

Makes me wonder just "when" is the right time to get rid of the petrol vehicles (while some money can still be had for them), and to get into an electric vehicle (again, presumably when they aren't as damnably expensive to "get into", and there is sufficient charging infrastructure around for longer distance driving etc.)

One other question I had was "What happens to the batteries in EVs when they reach end of service life"?

The following is a (necessarily long-winded) discussion of through and post-life use, decommissioning and recycling of Li-ion batteries from EVs.

https://www.nature.com/articles/s41586-019-1682-5

Naturally, questions also arise in respect of the "total" environmental cost of the production, use and ultimate disposal of the batteries.

Are we "trading" one form of environmental damage (fossil fuel emissions), for others?



' ...............  Makes me wonder just "when" is the right time to get rid of the petrol vehicles (while some money can still be had for them), and to get into an electric vehicle ......... '

Good question.

Maybe when your driving can be catered to by an electric car?

Perhaps some 2 car households could be 1 petrol and one electric ?

In our future I am looking at one car and using bikes for may day to day trips, ie, when retired.

As the economic difference may not be really huge, not a big call so far.
Electric cars do cost money to run.
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John Smith
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Re: Electric Vehicle take-up/transition.
Reply #12 - Jan 4th, 2021 at 8:48pm
 
lee wrote on Jan 4th, 2021 at 7:25pm:
John Smith wrote on Jan 4th, 2021 at 7:10pm:
no, it's why the govt.is giving energy companies the power to remotely switch off your solar panels


Did you read the story?

"The 275,000 solar households in South Australia face periods where power authorities will switch off their rooftop panels remotely under measures designed to improve electricity grid stability."

That is the trouble with renewables. Te power it goes up, it goes down. And the grid gets destabilised.

Meanwhile -

AEMO warns hot summer weather could see blackouts in Victoria

https://www.abc.net.au/radio/programs/am/aemo-warns-hot-summer-weather-could-see...

AEMO warns of increased outages from ageing coal generators

https://reneweconomy.com.au/aemo-warns-of-increased-outages-from-ageing-coal-gen...


you could have saved yourself the embarrassment and shut up .
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lee
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Re: Electric Vehicle take-up/transition.
Reply #13 - Jan 4th, 2021 at 9:04pm
 
John Smith wrote on Jan 4th, 2021 at 8:48pm:
you could have saved yourself the embarrassment and shut up .


Embarrassment? When you hadn't even read the article you linked? Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin

Renewables are intermittent, they not only vary seasonally but can vary by the minute or part thereof.

Weather Dependent Renewables is what they should be called. Wink
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Re: Electric Vehicle take-up/transition.
Reply #14 - Jan 4th, 2021 at 10:54pm
 
I am convinced. Having read all the condemnations of renewable energy and electric vehicles by the pundits on Ozpolitic, I realise neither will ever get over their immense teething problems. This proves that coal and petrol are better options. Anyway, it was all just a conspiracy by the Left in support of the Great Reset of the world economy.
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