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Busting the Anzac myth (Read 1473 times)
Brian Ross
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Re: Busting the Anzac myth
Reply #30 - Apr 29th, 2019 at 7:43pm
 
Mr Hammer wrote on Apr 29th, 2019 at 6:41pm:
[quote
Good chance? We'd get obliterated Brian. China is dredging up the bottom and making sand islands with bases and them. The tyranny of distance is shrinking by the day. I'll tell you why China would love Australia- space. Lebensraum. People in China are living like caged chickens on top of each other. If the US had a civil war we'd be defenceless and other countries would start making their move. The stability of the US is our stability. It's just a fact.


You really do live in a different reality, don't you, Hammer?

China would not "obliterate" us.  Why would they bother?  They would need us as slaves, now wouldn't they?

In reality, China lacks the need to attack Australia.   Lebensraum?  Australia lacks the soils to support a large population.  Our soils are the oldest on the planet and lack the nutrients to sustain massive cropping.  China is well aware of this fact, Hammer.   China is largely empty, despite your belief otherwise.  Most of it's population is on the coast and inland from there.  There is plenty of room further west, in Xinjiang and Tibet.   Why undertake a risky invasion when you already control large areas that are not being used?   Wars occur because of a need for a political outcome which cannot be achieved peacefully.  As Clausewitz put it, "War is but politics by a different means."   Sane politicians don't wage war unnecessarily.   China has no necessity to wage war on Australia.  None at all.  It also lacks the means.   It's navy is not equipped or trained for long range operations.   To build an island takes years and years and years, Hammer, it does not happen overnight.   You don't think we'd notice them building islands just to the north of our continent?   Roll Eyes

You really need to stop with your Yellow Peril stories, Hammer.  Your Sinophobia is showing.   Roll Eyes Roll Eyes
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Mr Hammer
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Re: Busting the Anzac myth
Reply #31 - Apr 29th, 2019 at 7:46pm
 
I can't believe you are arguing with me about this. My fathers uncle blew his head off in a oven about 20 years after coming home from a Japanese POW camp. My mates uncle shot himself in the head. My pop was a smoker and bad drinker because he was in New Guinea. He died early.  My mates father was a bad drinker and smoker because of his service. They chopped off both of his legs before he died. Across the road when I lived in Blacktown was a Vietnam veteran who had a steel plate in his head from a booby trap. Every Saturday morning the whole street erupted from his domestic abuse. My father went around to his house one time and all the fibro walls were smashed in. His two kids were traumatised. The ones who witnessed combat were all damaged in some way. And it was years after Vietnam when they finally started diagnosing combat trauma. They weren't treated properly Brian. You know that.
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Mr Hammer
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Re: Busting the Anzac myth
Reply #32 - Apr 29th, 2019 at 7:48pm
 
Brian Ross wrote on Apr 29th, 2019 at 7:43pm:
Mr Hammer wrote on Apr 29th, 2019 at 6:41pm:
[quote
Good chance? We'd get obliterated Brian. China is dredging up the bottom and making sand islands with bases and them. The tyranny of distance is shrinking by the day. I'll tell you why China would love Australia- space. Lebensraum. People in China are living like caged chickens on top of each other. If the US had a civil war we'd be defenceless and other countries would start making their move. The stability of the US is our stability. It's just a fact.


You really do live in a different reality, don't you, Hammer?

China would not "obliterate" us.  Why would they bother?  They would need us as slaves, now wouldn't they?

In reality, China lacks the need to attack Australia.   Lebensraum?  Australia lacks the soils to support a large population.  Our soils are the oldest on the planet and lack the nutrients to sustain massive cropping.  China is well aware of this fact, Hammer.   China is largely empty, despite your belief otherwise.  Most of it's population is on the coast and inland from there.  There is plenty of room further west, in Xinjiang and Tibet.   Why undertake a risky invasion when you already control large areas that are not being used?   Wars occur because of a need for a political outcome which cannot be achieved peacefully.  As Clausewitz put it, "War is but politics by a different means."   Sane politicians don't wage war unnecessarily.   China has no necessity to wage war on Australia.  None at all.  It also lacks the means.   It's navy is not equipped or trained for long range operations.   To build an island takes years and years and years, Hammer, it does not happen overnight.   You don't think we'd notice them building islands just to the north of our continent?   Roll Eyes

You really need to stop with your Yellow Peril stories, Hammer.  Your Sinophobia is showing.   Roll Eyes Roll Eyes

China is developing close relationships throughout the Pacific. Fiji loves China. China is making moves Brian. PNG is another one. You are in denial.
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Re: Busting the Anzac myth
Reply #33 - Apr 29th, 2019 at 7:58pm
 
Australia has neglected her friends whilst being important and saying in the media she "pinches above her weight and kicks you in the balls".
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Re: Busting the Anzac myth
Reply #34 - Apr 29th, 2019 at 9:44pm
 
Brian Ross wrote on Apr 29th, 2019 at 5:30pm:
So, until 1920, everybody in Australia was British subjects.  However it was not until 1948 that they become officially Australian citizens.  So your argument is really rather nonsensical.


You perform better when you are not sober Brian.

So the expression Anzac was bogus because the military personnel from Australia were British subjects?

The toadys in 'Australian' government on both sides still kneel in the presence of UK politicians and royalty. "The idea that there was such a thing as an Australian nationality as distinct from a British one was considered by the High Court of Australia in 1906 to be a "novel idea" to which it was "not disposed to give any countenance".

From Brian Ross's source.

Quote:
... The idea that there was such a thing as an Australian nationality as distinct from a British one was considered by the High Court of Australia in 1906 to be a "novel idea" to which it was "not disposed to give any countenance". ...

... 1984: The Australian Citizenship (Amendment) Act 1984 became effective on 22 November 1984 and made significant changes, including that Australian law would no longer regard Australians as "British subjects". British subjects in Australia who were not Australian citizens became permanent residents.[7] Australian passports are only to be issued to Australian citizens. ...
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Please don't thank me. Effusive fawning and obeisance of disciples, mendicants, and foot-kissers embarrass me.
 
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Brian Ross
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Re: Busting the Anzac myth
Reply #35 - Apr 29th, 2019 at 11:06pm
 
Laugh till you cry wrote on Apr 29th, 2019 at 9:44pm:
Brian Ross wrote on Apr 29th, 2019 at 5:30pm:
So, until 1920, everybody in Australia was British subjects.  However it was not until 1948 that they become officially Australian citizens.  So your argument is really rather nonsensical.


You perform better when you are not sober Brian.

So the expression Anzac was bogus because the military personnel from Australia were British subjects?


Nope.  They came from Australia and New Zealand.   They were enlisted in the Australian and New Zealand Armies, not the British Army.   We were an independent, self-governing dominion.   We were still working our way though many issues, citizenship was just one of them.   We got it right in the end.   Menzies once declared in Parliament that he believed he was "British to his bootstraps!"   He was but he was also an Australian.

Quote:
The toadys in 'Australian' government on both sides still kneel in the presence of UK politicians and royalty. "The idea that there was such a thing as an Australian nationality as distinct from a British one was considered by the High Court of Australia in 1906 to be a "novel idea" to which it was "not disposed to give any countenance".

From Brian Ross's source.


I've never seen an Australia politician "kneel" before British Royalty or a British politician.   You appear to live in an alternative reality if you believe that is commonplace.   Roll Eyes


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Brian Ross
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Re: Busting the Anzac myth
Reply #36 - Apr 29th, 2019 at 11:08pm
 
Mr Hammer wrote on Apr 29th, 2019 at 7:48pm:
Brian Ross wrote on Apr 29th, 2019 at 7:43pm:
Mr Hammer wrote on Apr 29th, 2019 at 6:41pm:
[quote
Good chance? We'd get obliterated Brian. China is dredging up the bottom and making sand islands with bases and them. The tyranny of distance is shrinking by the day. I'll tell you why China would love Australia- space. Lebensraum. People in China are living like caged chickens on top of each other. If the US had a civil war we'd be defenceless and other countries would start making their move. The stability of the US is our stability. It's just a fact.


You really do live in a different reality, don't you, Hammer?

China would not "obliterate" us.  Why would they bother?  They would need us as slaves, now wouldn't they?

In reality, China lacks the need to attack Australia.   Lebensraum?  Australia lacks the soils to support a large population.  Our soils are the oldest on the planet and lack the nutrients to sustain massive cropping.  China is well aware of this fact, Hammer.   China is largely empty, despite your belief otherwise.  Most of it's population is on the coast and inland from there.  There is plenty of room further west, in Xinjiang and Tibet.   Why undertake a risky invasion when you already control large areas that are not being used?   Wars occur because of a need for a political outcome which cannot be achieved peacefully.  As Clausewitz put it, "War is but politics by a different means."   Sane politicians don't wage war unnecessarily.   China has no necessity to wage war on Australia.  None at all.  It also lacks the means.   It's navy is not equipped or trained for long range operations.   To build an island takes years and years and years, Hammer, it does not happen overnight.   You don't think we'd notice them building islands just to the north of our continent?   Roll Eyes

You really need to stop with your Yellow Peril stories, Hammer.  Your Sinophobia is showing.   Roll Eyes Roll Eyes


China is developing close relationships throughout the Pacific. Fiji loves China. China is making moves Brian. PNG is another one. You are in denial.


Closer relationships don't mean they are developing military bases, Hammer.  They are funding development, they are promoting Tourism and so on.  You need, as I have suggested to stop with your Yellow Peril stories.    Roll Eyes
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Brian Ross
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Re: Busting the Anzac myth
Reply #37 - Apr 29th, 2019 at 11:12pm
 
Mr Hammer wrote on Apr 29th, 2019 at 7:46pm:
I can't believe you are arguing with me about this. My fathers uncle blew his head off in a oven about 20 years after coming home from a Japanese POW camp. My mates uncle shot himself in the head. My pop was a smoker and bad drinker because he was in New Guinea. He died early.  My mates father was a bad drinker and smoker because of his service. They chopped off both of his legs before he died. Across the road when I lived in Blacktown was a Vietnam veteran who had a steel plate in his head from a booby trap. Every Saturday morning the whole street erupted from his domestic abuse. My father went around to his house one time and all the fibro walls were smashed in. His two kids were traumatised. The ones who witnessed combat were all damaged in some way. And it was years after Vietnam when they finally started diagnosing combat trauma. They weren't treated properly Brian. You know that.



You are talking about a relative minority of former Australian service people, Hammer.   Only 22,000 Australians became Pow(J), out of a total of nearly 1 million Australians who served.  That is a tiny minority.

As I've said, the Vietnam Veterans had a rough time but not all of them suffered from "combat trauma", Hammer.  I've served with and lived across the road, from Vietnam Veterans and they were perfectly normal people.  No violence, no problems, nothing to differentiate between them and other Australians except they served in Vietnam.   Roll Eyes
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Re: Busting the Anzac myth
Reply #38 - Apr 29th, 2019 at 11:29pm
 
God you talk Turd Brian.v Roll Eyes
But you have my vote - as this place needs somebody like you to reflect what Australian Military is all about.  Grin
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Re: Busting the Anzac myth
Reply #39 - May 2nd, 2019 at 12:46am
 
.JaSin. wrote on Apr 29th, 2019 at 11:29pm:
God you talk Turd Brian.v Roll Eyes
But you have my vote - as this place needs somebody like you to reflect what Australian Military is all about.  Grin


Posers who pretend they are war heroes but spent their time counting stores in a warehouse because they were too chickenshit to face the enemy?
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Brian Ross
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Re: Busting the Anzac myth
Reply #40 - May 2nd, 2019 at 1:59pm
 
Spatchcock wrote on May 2nd, 2019 at 12:46am:
.JaSin. wrote on Apr 29th, 2019 at 11:29pm:
God you talk Turd Brian.v Roll Eyes
But you have my vote - as this place needs somebody like you to reflect what Australian Military is all about.  Grin


Posers who pretend they are war heroes but spent their time counting stores in a warehouse because they were too chickenshit to face the enemy?


...

Oh, dearie, dearie, me.  You really crack me up, little chicken.  I went where I was sent by the Army.  I once was an infantry man until I cracked up my knee in a motorcycle accident.  Unlike you, I have never denigrated another service person's military life.   Little chicken, you are exactly what you claim you hate about Australian life so much.  Run along, back to your little kiddies' playground.  It is where you belong.    Roll Eyes
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Spatchcock
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Re: Busting the Anzac myth
Reply #41 - May 2nd, 2019 at 3:31pm
 
Brian Ross wrote on May 2nd, 2019 at 1:59pm:
Spatchcock wrote on May 2nd, 2019 at 12:46am:
.JaSin. wrote on Apr 29th, 2019 at 11:29pm:
God you talk Turd Brian.v Roll Eyes
But you have my vote - as this place needs somebody like you to reflect what Australian Military is all about.  Grin


Posers who pretend they are war heroes but spent their time counting stores in a warehouse because they were too chickenshit to face the enemy?


http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/12/128170/2467911-yawn_20smiley.jpg

Oh, dearie, dearie, me.  You really crack me up, little chicken.  I went where I was sent by the Army.  I once was an infantry man until I cracked up my knee in a motorcycle accident.  Unlike you, I have never denigrated another service person's military life.   Little chicken, you are exactly what you claim you hate about Australian life so much.  Run along, back to your little kiddies' playground.  It is where you belong.    Roll Eyes


If you've never denigrated another service member you were never in the infantry. That is all the infantry do.
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Brian Ross
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Re: Busting the Anzac myth
Reply #42 - May 2nd, 2019 at 4:58pm
 
Spatchcock wrote on May 2nd, 2019 at 3:31pm:
Brian Ross wrote on May 2nd, 2019 at 1:59pm:
Spatchcock wrote on May 2nd, 2019 at 12:46am:
.JaSin. wrote on Apr 29th, 2019 at 11:29pm:
God you talk Turd Brian.v Roll Eyes
But you have my vote - as this place needs somebody like you to reflect what Australian Military is all about.  Grin


Posers who pretend they are war heroes but spent their time counting stores in a warehouse because they were too chickenshit to face the enemy?


http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/12/128170/2467911-yawn_20smiley.jpg

Oh, dearie, dearie, me.  You really crack me up, little chicken.  I went where I was sent by the Army.  I once was an infantry man until I cracked up my knee in a motorcycle accident.  Unlike you, I have never denigrated another service person's military life.   Little chicken, you are exactly what you claim you hate about Australian life so much.  Run along, back to your little kiddies' playground.  It is where you belong.    Roll Eyes


If you've never denigrated another service member you were never in the infantry. That is all the infantry do.


...

Oh, dearie, dearie, me, just won't learn will you, little chicken?  You just keep on digging your hole deeper and deeper.   You remind me of a digger I knew on my IET Course as an Infantryman.   We were told to dig down to "Stage 3" defences.   Stage 3 is three foot six inches deep (ie approximately 1 metre).   He dug down to about 5 feet and was still going when he was told to stop by the platoon sergeant.    Roll Eyes

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Mr Hammer
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Re: Busting the Anzac myth
Reply #43 - May 2nd, 2019 at 5:04pm
 
Brian Ross wrote on Apr 29th, 2019 at 11:12pm:
Mr Hammer wrote on Apr 29th, 2019 at 7:46pm:
I can't believe you are arguing with me about this. My fathers uncle blew his head off in a oven about 20 years after coming home from a Japanese POW camp. My mates uncle shot himself in the head. My pop was a smoker and bad drinker because he was in New Guinea. He died early.  My mates father was a bad drinker and smoker because of his service. They chopped off both of his legs before he died. Across the road when I lived in Blacktown was a Vietnam veteran who had a steel plate in his head from a booby trap. Every Saturday morning the whole street erupted from his domestic abuse. My father went around to his house one time and all the fibro walls were smashed in. His two kids were traumatised. The ones who witnessed combat were all damaged in some way. And it was years after Vietnam when they finally started diagnosing combat trauma. They weren't treated properly Brian. You know that.



You are talking about a relative minority of former Australian service people, Hammer.   Only 22,000 Australians became Pow(J), out of a total of nearly 1 million Australians who served.  That is a tiny minority.

As I've said, the Vietnam Veterans had a rough time but not all of them suffered from "combat trauma", Hammer.  I've served with and lived across the road, from Vietnam Veterans and they were perfectly normal people.  No violence, no problems, nothing to differentiate between them and other Australians except they served in Vietnam.   Roll Eyes

My observation is mostly aimed at ww1 and ww2 veterans who witnessed combat. I'm not talking about REMF's Brian. Most came home damaged. Especially the ww1 veterans. They did have a roster but went through some truly terrible battles and constant shelling.
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Brian Ross
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Re: Busting the Anzac myth
Reply #44 - May 2nd, 2019 at 7:51pm
 
Mr Hammer wrote on May 2nd, 2019 at 5:04pm:
Brian Ross wrote on Apr 29th, 2019 at 11:12pm:
Mr Hammer wrote on Apr 29th, 2019 at 7:46pm:
I can't believe you are arguing with me about this. My fathers uncle blew his head off in a oven about 20 years after coming home from a Japanese POW camp. My mates uncle shot himself in the head. My pop was a smoker and bad drinker because he was in New Guinea. He died early.  My mates father was a bad drinker and smoker because of his service. They chopped off both of his legs before he died. Across the road when I lived in Blacktown was a Vietnam veteran who had a steel plate in his head from a booby trap. Every Saturday morning the whole street erupted from his domestic abuse. My father went around to his house one time and all the fibro walls were smashed in. His two kids were traumatised. The ones who witnessed combat were all damaged in some way. And it was years after Vietnam when they finally started diagnosing combat trauma. They weren't treated properly Brian. You know that.



You are talking about a relative minority of former Australian service people, Hammer.   Only 22,000 Australians became Pow(J), out of a total of nearly 1 million Australians who served.  That is a tiny minority.

As I've said, the Vietnam Veterans had a rough time but not all of them suffered from "combat trauma", Hammer.  I've served with and lived across the road, from Vietnam Veterans and they were perfectly normal people.  No violence, no problems, nothing to differentiate between them and other Australians except they served in Vietnam.   Roll Eyes

My observation is mostly aimed at ww1 and ww2 veterans who witnessed combat. I'm not talking about REMF's Brian. Most came home damaged. Especially the ww1 veterans. They did have a roster but went through some truly terrible battles and constant shelling.


No, shelling was directed primarily at the Trenches and then the artillery positions and form up sites behind the lines.   Ammunition was precious, particularly in the early part of the war, so it wasn't wasted.   Yes, many, but not all WWI veterans came home damaged, Hammer.  Many in WWII were similar.  Some from Korea and some from Vietnam.   Not all soldiers were "REMFs".    Roll Eyes

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