Forum

 
  Back to OzPolitic.com   Welcome, Guest. Please Login or Register
  Forum Home Album HelpSearch Recent Rules LoginRegister  
 

Pages: 1 ... 12 13 14 15 16 ... 28
Send Topic Print
climate skeptics derailing threads (Read 10380 times)
lee
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Australian Politics

Posts: 21379
Gender: male
Re: carbon taxes are the best
Reply #195 - Apr 19th, 2019 at 8:43pm
 
freediver wrote on Apr 19th, 2019 at 8:41pm:
It has been determined.


Another one of your fact free zones. Grin Grin Grin Grin

You could try giving us this science. Or a newspaper that references the science. Wink
Back to top
 
 
IP Logged
 
Dnarever
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Australian Politics

Posts: 62103
Here
Gender: male
Re: carbon taxes are the best
Reply #196 - Apr 19th, 2019 at 8:59pm
 
lee wrote on Apr 19th, 2019 at 7:52pm:
freediver wrote on Apr 19th, 2019 at 7:11pm:
You provided the stats that support AGW.



Really? Exactly how much AGW is supported by the stats?

We have  an hypothesis, we have the effect of CO2 being logarithmically reduced, - just how much AGW is that?

Then we have natural variation. Recently reported is the fact of the North Atlantic Oscillation overturning. it has been reported that this is causing cooling off Greenland and slowing glacier calving. So that natural variation has in some small part overcome any AGW.

They do say that AGW will resume when the NAO is overturned again.

Seeing as the periodicity of the NAO is given as 60-80 years, that is some way off. And we know what the IPCC said about the climate models it the Third Assessment report -

"In climate research and modeling, we should recognize that we are dealing with a coupled non-linear chaotic system, and therefore that the long-term prediction of future climate states is not possible."

Now 60 - 80 years is long term no matter how much you slice it and dice it.

So how much of the warming is from AGW?

That is what needs to be determined. If it is not catastrophic why do anything?



We are going through a cooling period and it is still getting warmer, what do you think happens when we go into a warming period ?
Back to top
 
 
IP Logged
 
freediver
Gold Member
*****
Offline


www.ozpolitic.com

Posts: 53324
At my desk.
Re: carbon taxes are the best
Reply #197 - Apr 19th, 2019 at 9:11pm
 
lee wrote on Apr 19th, 2019 at 8:43pm:
freediver wrote on Apr 19th, 2019 at 8:41pm:
It has been determined.


Another one of your fact free zones. Grin Grin Grin Grin

You could try giving us this science. Or a newspaper that references the science. Wink


Just check the latest IPCC report. It has everything you need to know. Unless of curse you'd rather go after Walrus documentaries.
Back to top
 

People who can't distinguish between etymology and entomology bug me in ways I cannot put into words.
WWW  
IP Logged
 
lee
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Australian Politics

Posts: 21379
Gender: male
Re: carbon taxes are the best
Reply #198 - Apr 19th, 2019 at 9:20pm
 
Dnarever wrote on Apr 19th, 2019 at 8:59pm:
We are going through a cooling period and it is still getting warmer, what do you think happens when we go into a warming period ?



ohh long term predictions. exactly what the IPCC says can't be done. Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin
Back to top
 
 
IP Logged
 
Paki gob on a stick
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Australian Politics

Posts: 103732
Re: carbon taxes are the best
Reply #199 - Apr 19th, 2019 at 9:23pm
 
lee wrote on Apr 19th, 2019 at 8:43pm:
freediver wrote on Apr 19th, 2019 at 8:41pm:
It has been determined.


Another one of your fact free zones. Grin Grin Grin Grin

You could try giving us this science. Or a newspaper that references the science. Wink


Yes, but I think FD's trying to make your case for you, Lee.
Back to top
 
 
IP Logged
 
Paki gob on a stick
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Australian Politics

Posts: 103732
Re: carbon taxes are the best
Reply #200 - Apr 19th, 2019 at 9:24pm
 
freediver wrote on Apr 19th, 2019 at 9:11pm:
lee wrote on Apr 19th, 2019 at 8:43pm:
freediver wrote on Apr 19th, 2019 at 8:41pm:
It has been determined.


Another one of your fact free zones. Grin Grin Grin Grin

You could try giving us this science. Or a newspaper that references the science. Wink


Just check the latest IPCC report. It has everything you need to know. Unless of curse you'd rather go after Walrus documentaries.


Do you think it might be useful to post it, FD? Lee and I might like to have a little look-see.
Back to top
 
 
IP Logged
 
Paki gob on a stick
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Australian Politics

Posts: 103732
Re: carbon taxes are the best
Reply #201 - Apr 19th, 2019 at 9:29pm
 
Dnarever wrote on Apr 19th, 2019 at 8:59pm:
lee wrote on Apr 19th, 2019 at 7:52pm:
freediver wrote on Apr 19th, 2019 at 7:11pm:
You provided the stats that support AGW.



Really? Exactly how much AGW is supported by the stats?

We have  an hypothesis, we have the effect of CO2 being logarithmically reduced, - just how much AGW is that?

Then we have natural variation. Recently reported is the fact of the North Atlantic Oscillation overturning. it has been reported that this is causing cooling off Greenland and slowing glacier calving. So that natural variation has in some small part overcome any AGW.

They do say that AGW will resume when the NAO is overturned again.

Seeing as the periodicity of the NAO is given as 60-80 years, that is some way off. And we know what the IPCC said about the climate models it the Third Assessment report -

"In climate research and modeling, we should recognize that we are dealing with a coupled non-linear chaotic system, and therefore that the long-term prediction of future climate states is not possible."

Now 60 - 80 years is long term no matter how much you slice it and dice it.

So how much of the warming is from AGW?

That is what needs to be determined. If it is not catastrophic why do anything?



We are going through a cooling period and it is still getting warmer, what do you think happens when we go into a warming period ?


To date, over the last few years, Lee has argued 4 things. 

1. It's getting cooler.

2. It's getting warmer.

3. There's no proof it's getting warmer.

4. And there's no proof humans are making it get warmer or cooler.

In other words, Lee's saying nothing - or anything - is happening. A bit of this, and a bit of that. Just don't think about it.

Carry on.
Back to top
 
 
IP Logged
 
lee
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Australian Politics

Posts: 21379
Gender: male
Re: carbon taxes are the best
Reply #202 - Apr 19th, 2019 at 9:33pm
 
freediver wrote on Apr 19th, 2019 at 9:11pm:
Just check the latest IPCC report. It has everything you need to know.



Oh you mean the new IPCC special report that used RCP 8.5 as its basis? The RCP 8.5 that even climate scientists say isn't feasible? That report? Those projections?

Or do you mean where they actually stated what has happened?

About extreme weather -

"Floods

"There was low confidence due to limited evidence, however, that anthropogenic climate change has affected the frequency and magnitude of floods. WGII AR5 also concluded that there is no evidence that surface water and groundwater drought
frequency has changed over the last few decades, although impacts of drought have increased mostly owing to increased water demand (Jiménez Cisneros et al., 2014)"

Drought

"The IPCC AR5 assessed that there was low confidence in the sign of drought trends since 1950 at the global scale, but that there was high confidence in observed trends in some regions of the world, including drought increases in the Mediterranean and West Africa and drought decreases in central North America and northwest Australia (Hartmann et al., 2013; Stocker et al., 2013). AR5 assessed that there was low confidence in the attribution of global changes in droughts and did not provide assessments for the attribution of regional changes in droughts (Bindoff et al., 2013a).

The recent literature does not suggest that the SREX and AR5 assessment of drought trends should be revised, except in the Mediterranean region. "

Cyclones

"Numerous studies leading up to and after AR5 have reported a decreasing trend in the global number of tropical cyclones and/or the globally accumulated cyclonic energy (Emanuel, 2005; Elsner et al., 2008; Knutson et al., 2010; Holland and Bruyère, 2014; Klotzbach and Landsea, 2015; Walsh et al., 2016). A theoretical physical basis for such a decrease to occur under global warming was recently provided by Kang and Elsner (2015). However, using a relatively short (20 year) and relatively homogeneous remotely sensed record, Klotzbach (2006) reported no significant trends in global cyclonic activity, consistent with more recent findings of Holland and Bruyère (2014). Such contradictions, in combination with the fact that the almost fourdecade-long period of remotely sensed observations remains relatively short to distinguish anthropogenically induced trends from decadal and multi-decadal variability, implies that there is only low confidencev regarding changes in global tropical cyclone numbers under global warming over the last four decades."

Precipitation

"Observed global changes in the water cycle, including precipitation, are more uncertain than observed changes in temperature (Hartmann et al., 2013; Stocker et al., 2013). There is high confidence that mean precipitation over the mid-latitude land areas of the Northern Hemisphere has increased since 1951 (Hartmann et al., 2013). For other latitudinal zones, area-averaged long-term positive or negative trends have low confidence because of poor data quality, incomplete data or disagreement amongst available estimates (Hartmann et al., 2013). There is, in particular, low confidence regarding observed trends in precipitation in monsoon regions, according to the SREX report (Seneviratne et al., 2012) and AR5 (Hartmann et al., 2013), as well as more recent publications (Singh et al., 2014; Taylor et al., 2017; Bichet and Diedhiou, 2018; see Supplementary Material 3.SM.2)."

https://www.ipcc.ch/sr15/chapter/chapter-3/

SR5 also had projections for wildfires but no reference for observations. So I found a scientific paper on wildfires from 2017.

QUOTE
Fire is an essential Earth system process that alters ecosystem and atmospheric composition. Here we assessed long-term fire trends using multiple satellite data sets. We found that global burned area declined by 24.3 ± 8.8% over the past 18 years. The estimated decrease in burned area remained robust after adjusting for precipitation variability and was largest in savannas. Agricultural expansion and intensification were primary drivers of declining fire activity. Fewer and smaller fires reduced aerosol concentrations, modified vegetation structure, and increased the magnitude of the terrestrial carbon sink. Fire models were unable to reproduce the pattern and magnitude of observed declines, suggesting that they may overestimate fire emissions in future projections. Using economic and demographic variables, we developed a conceptual model for predicting fire in human-dominated landscapes.


http://science.sciencemag.org/content/356/6345/1356

But tell us what you think the report says if you think it says something different.


Back to top
 
 
IP Logged
 
lee
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Australian Politics

Posts: 21379
Gender: male
Re: carbon taxes are the best
Reply #203 - Apr 19th, 2019 at 9:34pm
 
Paki gob on a stick wrote on Apr 19th, 2019 at 9:29pm:
o date, over the last few years, Lee has argued 4 things. 

1. It's getting cooler.

2. It's getting warmer.

3. There's no proof it's getting warmer.

4. And there's no proof humans are making it get warmer or cooler.

In other words, Lee's saying nothing - or anything - is happening. A bit of this, and a bit of that. Just don't think about it.

Carry on.


Thank you petal. Now all you have to do is substantiate that instead of making assertions. Grin Grin Grin Grin
Back to top
 
 
IP Logged
 
Paki gob on a stick
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Australian Politics

Posts: 103732
Re: carbon taxes are the best
Reply #204 - Apr 19th, 2019 at 10:19pm
 
lee wrote on Apr 19th, 2019 at 9:34pm:
Paki gob on a stick wrote on Apr 19th, 2019 at 9:29pm:
o date, over the last few years, Lee has argued 4 things. 

1. It's getting cooler.

2. It's getting warmer.

3. There's no proof it's getting warmer.

4. And there's no proof humans are making it get warmer or cooler.

In other words, Lee's saying nothing - or anything - is happening. A bit of this, and a bit of that. Just don't think about it.

Carry on.


Thank you petal. Now all you have to do is substantiate that instead of making assertions. Grin Grin Grin Grin


Do I?

Which part do you disagree with?
Back to top
 
 
IP Logged
 
lee
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Australian Politics

Posts: 21379
Gender: male
Re: carbon taxes are the best
Reply #205 - Apr 20th, 2019 at 12:12pm
 
Paki gob on a stick wrote on Apr 19th, 2019 at 10:19pm:
Which part do you disagree with?



You are the one making the claims. Can't back them up? Why am I not surprised?
Back to top
 
 
IP Logged
 
Paki gob on a stick
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Australian Politics

Posts: 103732
Re: carbon taxes are the best
Reply #206 - Apr 20th, 2019 at 12:17pm
 
lee wrote on Apr 19th, 2019 at 9:34pm:
Paki gob on a stick wrote on Apr 19th, 2019 at 9:29pm:
o date, over the last few years, Lee has argued 4 things. 

1. It's getting cooler.

2. It's getting warmer.

3. There's no proof it's getting warmer.

4. And there's no proof humans are making it get warmer or cooler.

In other words, Lee's saying nothing - or anything - is happening. A bit of this, and a bit of that. Just don't think about it.

Carry on.


Thank you petal. Now all you have to do is substantiate that instead of making assertions. Grin Grin Grin Grin


Which part do you disagree with, dear?
Back to top
 
 
IP Logged
 
Paki gob on a stick
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Australian Politics

Posts: 103732
Re: carbon taxes are the best
Reply #207 - Apr 20th, 2019 at 12:18pm
 
Paki gob on a stick wrote on Apr 20th, 2019 at 12:17pm:
lee wrote on Apr 19th, 2019 at 9:34pm:
[quote author=Karnal link=1553553295/212#212 date=1555673359]o date, over the last few years, Lee has argued 4 things. 

1. It's getting cooler.

2. It's getting warmer.

3. There's no proof it's getting warmer.

4. And there's no proof humans are making it get warmer or cooler.

In other words, Lee's saying nothing - or anything - is happening. A bit of this, and a bit of that. Just don't think about it.

Carry on.


Thank you petal. Now all you have to do is substantiate that instead of making assertions. Grin Grin Grin ;


Why? You agree, no?
Back to top
 
 
IP Logged
 
lee
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Australian Politics

Posts: 21379
Gender: male
Re: carbon taxes are the best
Reply #208 - Apr 20th, 2019 at 12:20pm
 
Paki gob on a stick wrote on Apr 20th, 2019 at 12:18pm:
Paki gob on a stick wrote on Apr 20th, 2019 at 12:17pm:
lee wrote on Apr 19th, 2019 at 9:34pm:
[quote author=Karnal link=1553553295/212#212 date=1555673359]o date, over the last few years, Lee has argued 4 things. 

1. It's getting cooler.

2. It's getting warmer.

3. There's no proof it's getting warmer.

4. And there's no proof humans are making it get warmer or cooler.

In other words, Lee's saying nothing - or anything - is happening. A bit of this, and a bit of that. Just don't think about it.

Carry on.


Thank you petal. Now all you have to do is substantiate that instead of making assertions. Grin Grin Grin ;


Why? You agree, no?



You agree with yourself? too funny.
Back to top
 
 
IP Logged
 
Paki gob on a stick
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Australian Politics

Posts: 103732
Re: carbon taxes are the best
Reply #209 - Apr 20th, 2019 at 12:22pm
 
lee wrote on Apr 20th, 2019 at 12:20pm:
Paki gob on a stick wrote on Apr 20th, 2019 at 12:18pm:
Paki gob on a stick wrote on Apr 20th, 2019 at 12:17pm:
lee wrote on Apr 19th, 2019 at 9:34pm:
[quote author=Karnal link=1553553295/212#212 date=1555673359]o date, over the last few years, Lee has argued 4 things. 

1. It's getting cooler.

2. It's getting warmer.

3. There's no proof it's getting warmer.

4. And there's no proof humans are making it get warmer or cooler.

In other words, Lee's saying nothing - or anything - is happening. A bit of this, and a bit of that. Just don't think about it.

Carry on.


Thank you petal. Now all you have to do is substantiate that instead of making assertions. Grin Grin Grin ;


Why? You agree, no?



You agree with yourself? too funny.


I most certainly do. And you agree too, no?

You have to. You said it, dear.
Back to top
 
 
IP Logged
 
Pages: 1 ... 12 13 14 15 16 ... 28
Send Topic Print