Australian Politics Forum - climate skeptics derailing threads

Ajax

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climate skeptics derailing threads
Mar 27^th, 2019 at 4:21pm

freediver wrote on Mar 26^th, 2019 at 8:34am:

Putting a price on greenhouse gas (GHG) emissions is the cheapest, most economically efficient way to reduce emissions. Here is a statement of consensus from economists saying the same thing:

http://www.ozpolitic.com/green-tax-shift/economics-hopeful-science.html

Carbon taxes overcome the two primary reasons for opposition to action on climate change:

1) The huge cost. Reducing GHG emissions is very cheap. What makes it expensive is government micromanagement (eg, MRETs, subsidies etc) - which makes about as much sense as asking the government to make and sell computers to us. There are simple ways to reduce emissions that people understand, the government can implement, and which have popular support. But they are the most expensive options. The cheap ways to reduce emissions are technically complex and beyond the reach of direct government intervention.

2) International cooperation. The currently preferred global mechanism is an emissions permit trading scheme. However this requires the creation of what is essentially a global currency, and it requires trust that all foreign governments will manage it correctly. That is a huge, and largely undeserved leap of faith. It also requires massive direct transfers of money between countries, which makes negotiations impossible. The alternative is a minimum agreed tax on GHG emissions. This is far simpler. Each country keeps it's own revenue, raised internally, and gets to "spend" it internally, for example by reducing other taxes.

All it takes is for people to get over their emotional over-reaction to the T word.

More info:

http://www.ozpolitic.com/green-tax-shift/green-tax-shift.html

I will be giving my first preference votes in both houses in the upcoming federal election to whichever party has the balls to publicly support carbon taxes. Malcolm Turnbull, Julia Gillard and Bob Brown have all publicly supported carbon taxes in the past. John Howard has supported and emissions trading scheme, which is the next best option from an economic perspective.

Well maybe if the theory of Anthropogenic Global Warming (AGW) was true.

Facts are the theory is wrong.

So then only an nincompoop would pay for something that doesn't exist.

You see the computer models that predicted AGW in 1990 and its devastating effects said That by end of this century

Temperature would rise by 2.78°C end of this century

Empirical data the last 28 years predicts a warming by end of this century of

Empirical Data last 28 years predicts warming end of this century of 1°C

Empirical data = Data gathered by observing nature.

We don't have to spend billions to keep the temperature below 2°C.

This will happen all by itself................... Cool

Has the world lost its mind, blindly following bullsh!t rhetoric.

Its in plain English, don't know how else to say it.

If the computer models were right we should have been at a certain plateau by now, but we haven't reached it.

So WTFU.

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« Last Edit: May 5^th, 2019 at 1:29pm by freediver »

1. There has never been a more serious assault on our standard of living than Anthropogenic Global Warming..Ajax
2. "One hour of freedom is worth more than 40 years of slavery & prison" Regas Feraeos

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Ajax Gold Member Offline CO2 has never controlled temperature on Earth Posts: 10958 Australia Gender:	Re: carbon taxes are the best Reply #1 - Mar 27^th, 2019 at 4:25pm If theory doesn't match observations in nature then the theory is wrong. AGW theory is not were it should be in accordance with computer models. Time to turf out this ridiculous theory once and for all.
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Ajax

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Re: carbon taxes are the best
Reply #2 - Mar 27^th, 2019 at 4:28pm

Clean up pollution - Yeah sure lets do it.

Switch to green energy - Yeah sure lets do it.

But don't be conned into paying for the air that we all breathe.

After all it is free fro now...... Cool

Dishonest information is staring you in the face.

It's your choice.......!

Medieval warm period warmer than today.

Dahl_Jensen et al 1998
Wagner & Melles 2001
Kaplan et al 2002
Jiang et al 2002
Moore et al 2001
Grudd et al 2002
Seppa & Birks 2002
Dansgaard et al 1975
Korhola et al 2000
Naurzbaev et al 2002
Vaganov et el 1996
Briffa et al 1998
Scweingruber & Briffa 1996
Knudsen et al 2004
Grinsted et al 2006
Besonen et al 2008
Wagner et al 2008
Vare et al 2009
Norgaard-Pedersen & Mikkelsen 2009
Andresen et al 2004
Vinther et al 2010
Kobashi et al 2010
Kobashi et al 2008
Stuiver et al 1995
Dansgaard et al 1975
Jenings & Weiner 1996
Johnsen et al 2001
Vinther et al 2010
Larsen et al 2011
Hill et al 2001
Joynt & Wolfe 2001
Hantemirov & Shiyatov 2002
Andersson et al 2003
Helama et al 2005
Mazepa 2005
Weckstrom et al 2006
Jiang et al 2007
Zabenski & Gajewski 2007
Grudd 2008
Justwan et al 2008
Scire et al 2008
Axford et al 2009
Bjune et al 2009
Cook et al 2009
Fortin & Gajewski 2010
Buntgen et al 2011
Divine et al 2011
Ran et al 2011
Velle et al 2011
D’Andrea et al 2012
Esper et al 2012

Don't forget a while back the consensus was that the Earth was flat and the sun rotated around the earth.

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« Last Edit: Mar 27^th, 2019 at 4:59pm by Ajax »

1. There has never been a more serious assault on our standard of living than Anthropogenic Global Warming..Ajax
2. "One hour of freedom is worth more than 40 years of slavery & prison" Regas Feraeos

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lee

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Re: carbon taxes are the best
Reply #3 - Mar 27^th, 2019 at 6:04pm

• ...civilization will end within 15 or 30 years unless immediate action is taken against problems facing mankind,” biologist George Wald, Harvard University, April 19, 1970.

• By 1995, “...somewhere between 75 and 85 percent of all the species of living animals will be extinct.” Sen. Gaylord Nelson, quoting Dr. S. Dillon Ripley, Look magazine, April 1970.

• Because of increased dust, cloud cover and water vapor “...the planet will cool, the water vapor will fall and freeze, and a new Ice Age will be born,” Newsweek magazine, January 26, 1970.
• The world will be “...eleven degrees colder in the year 2000. This is about twice what it would take to put us into an ice age,” Kenneth Watt, speaking at Swarthmore University, April 19, 1970.

• “By 1985, air pollution will have reduced the amount of sunlight reaching earth by one half...” Life magazine, January 1970.
• “Population will inevitably and completely outstrip whatever small increases in food supplies we make,” Paul Ehrlich, interview in Mademoiselle magazine, April 1970.
• “...air pollution...is certainly going to take hundreds of thousands of lives in the next few years alone,” Paul Ehrlich, interview in Mademoiselle magazine, April 1970.
• Ehrlich also predicted that in 1973, 200,000 Americans would die from air pollution, and that by 1980 the life expectancy of Americans would be 42 years.
• “It is already too late to avoid mass starvation,” Earth Day organizer Denis Hayes, The Living Wilderness, Spring 1970.
• “By the year 2000...the entire world, with the exception of Western Europe, North America and Australia, will be in famine,” Peter Gunter, North Texas State University, The Living Wilderness, Spring 1970.

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freediver Gold Member Offline www.ozpolitic.com Posts: 47453 At my desk.	Re: carbon taxes are the best Reply #4 - Apr 5^th, 2019 at 5:48pm Lee can you explain why you think that is relevant?
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lee Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 16428 Gender:	Re: carbon taxes are the best Reply #5 - Apr 5^th, 2019 at 6:24pm freediver wrote on Apr 5^th, 2019 at 5:48pm: Lee can you explain why you think that is relevant? Because according to the alarmists we're "all gunna die".
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freediver Gold Member Offline www.ozpolitic.com Posts: 47453 At my desk.	Re: carbon taxes are the best Reply #6 - Apr 5^th, 2019 at 6:32pm Would you describe the vast majority of climate scientists who agree with AGW, and the economic consensus on pricing mechanisms, and the bipartisan support for action on climate change as "alarmist"? Or were you just trying to change the topic?
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lee

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Re: carbon taxes are the best
Reply #7 - Apr 5^th, 2019 at 7:40pm

freediver wrote on Apr 5^th, 2019 at 6:32pm:

Would you describe the vast majority of climate scientists who agree with AGW, and the economic consensus on pricing mechanisms, and the bipartisan support for action on climate change as "alarmist"?

First you would need to define "the vast majority of climate scientists who agree with AGW. The American Meteorological Society is one of the few Societies that actually surveyed their members rather than making a decision by diktat. Their survey? 53% agreed with AGW. Not necessarily that it was catastrophic, just that it was occurring.

But please refer me to your preferred "vast majority" report.

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Ajax

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Re: carbon taxes are the best
Reply #8 - Apr 6^th, 2019 at 9:49am

freediver wrote on Apr 5^th, 2019 at 6:32pm:

Would you describe the vast majority of climate scientists who agree with AGW, and the economic consensus on pricing mechanisms, and the bipartisan support for action on climate change as "alarmist"?

Or were you just trying to change the topic?

My goodness man, you may have a degree you might be a star amongst your colleagues at your work place and generally in business BUT when it come to Anthropogenic Global Warming you’re in the sheeple class.

Too lazy to research both sides you prefer to sit back and listen to the so called experts and their stupid consensus.

Experts who not so long ago believed that the Earth was flat and killed anyone who disagreed.

What about today, experts sent home a baby girl three times from hospital even though the parents knew there was something wrong with her, she died after she was sent home the third time, turns out she had swallowed a button battery.

Experts are nothing more than trained monkeys in a certain field taken them out of that environment and they’re like everyone else.

Wake up and smell the CO2 a good starting point would be here (read below) to REALLY find out where this bullshit rhetoric about the 97% came from.

How can people be so dull, when the information is right in front of them and then claim to be so smart……… Roll Eyes

https://www.forbes.com/sites/alexepstein/2015/01/06/97-of-climate-scientists-agr...

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1. There has never been a more serious assault on our standard of living than Anthropogenic Global Warming..Ajax
2. "One hour of freedom is worth more than 40 years of slavery & prison" Regas Feraeos

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Ajax

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Re: carbon taxes are the best
Reply #9 - Apr 6^th, 2019 at 10:02am

An example:

David Suzuki believes in AGW because the experts said so, he has no idea where the 97% consensus came from BUT believes it.

His knowledge on climate change is no different to the average Joe or Jacinta on the street.

How do I know, well I saw him on Q&A......... Cheesy

David Suzuki is a Canadian academic, science broadcaster and environmental activist.

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1. There has never been a more serious assault on our standard of living than Anthropogenic Global Warming..Ajax
2. "One hour of freedom is worth more than 40 years of slavery & prison" Regas Feraeos

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freediver

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At my desk.

Re: carbon taxes are the best
Reply #10 - Apr 6^th, 2019 at 2:38pm

Quote:

Too lazy to research both sides you prefer to sit back and listen to the so called experts and their stupid consensus.

Experts who not so long ago believed that the Earth was flat and killed anyone who disagreed.

Can you give an example? Is this really the level of debate the climate critics are stooping to? And what is the point of looking like an idiot?

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Dnarever

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Re: carbon taxes are the best
Reply #11 - Apr 6^th, 2019 at 2:55pm

lee wrote on Apr 5^th, 2019 at 6:24pm:

freediver wrote on Apr 5^th, 2019 at 5:48pm:

Lee can you explain why you think that is relevant?

Because according to the alarmists we're "all gunna die". Wink

Nobody is saying we will all die. I would be making a list of the names of people with your view who are blocking action and if the science turns out to be true your descendants would be the ones at risk and going without.

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lee

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Re: carbon taxes are the best
Reply #12 - Apr 6^th, 2019 at 7:47pm

Dnarever wrote on Apr 6^th, 2019 at 2:55pm:

Nobody is saying we will all die.

"As newly anointed Democratic thought-leader Rep. Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez, D-N.Y., once reminded us, "like, the world is gonna end in 12 years if we don’t address climate change."

https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/opinion/spend-93-trillion-on-the-green-new-deal-or-well-all-die-in-like-12-years[/url]

[url]Dnarever wrote on Apr 6^th, 2019 at 2:55pm:

I would be making a list of the names of people with your view who are blocking action and if the science turns out to be true your descendants would be the ones at risk and going without.

Oh. Only IF it turns out to be true. That means there is some likelihood of it not being true. Who knew? Grin

What are the statistics for those scientists who believe in AGW to the 95% confidence level? Wink

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lee Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 16428 Gender:	Re: carbon taxes are the best Reply #13 - Apr 6^th, 2019 at 7:49pm freediver wrote on Apr 6^th, 2019 at 2:38pm: Can you give an example? Is this really the level of debate the climate critics are stooping to? And what is the point of looking like an idiot? So just who is on your list of approved papers?
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Dnarever

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Re: carbon taxes are the best
Reply #14 - Apr 6^th, 2019 at 10:54pm

lee wrote on Apr 6^th, 2019 at 7:47pm:

Dnarever wrote on Apr 6^th, 2019 at 2:55pm:

Nobody is saying we will all die.

"As newly anointed Democratic thought-leader Rep. Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez, D-N.Y., once reminded us, "like, the world is gonna end in 12 years if we don’t address climate change."

https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/opinion/spend-93-trillion-on-the-green-new-deal-or-well-all-die-in-like-12-years[/url]

[url]Dnarever wrote on Apr 6^th, 2019 at 2:55pm:

I would be making a list of the names of people with your view who are blocking action and if the science turns out to be true your descendants would be the ones at risk and going without.

Oh. Only IF it turns out to be true. That means there is some likelihood of it not being true. Who knew? Grin

What are the statistics for those scientists who believe in AGW to the 95% confidence level? Wink

Of course there is a chance that the dominant scientific view could be wrong, I would think that they are only at about 95% probability. If you want to risk the life of your descendants on that other 5% go ahead.

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