Australian Politics Forum - comparison of Christianity and Islam

issuevoter

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Re: comparison of Christianity and Islam
Reply #45 - Mar 27^th, 2018 at 9:51pm

freediver wrote on Mar 26^th, 2018 at 9:28pm:

issuevoter wrote on Mar 26^th, 2018 at 12:28pm:

The subject of religion tends to get lumped in with the belief in God. ( I have never seen a description of God that was not pathetic.) However, "religion" means way of life, the natives of Rapa Nui had a religion even without those stone images, so its important to make that distinction.

The big three religions, that are said to originate with someone named Abraham, have a conceited claim that one of these Gods is a better idea than the several they replaced. Of course you cannot use math or logic to support this notion, but for the average person's use, it probably seemed more convenient to have the Cosmos run by a king than a committee, back when Abraham assured his surrounding tribe that he alone was on intimate terms with this "King." Fortunately, for us all, social progress and public education have led to the spread of critical-thinking, so on average, people are not as easily convinced as they once were.

The two main types of Abrahmic God proponents are the "lay down the law" by what previous zealots wrote, and the glassy-eyed self-appointed representatives of God on Earth.
The human psyche, as exhibited so far, seems to have a penchant this second type of "God" fixation. To the average, rather uncomplicated person, these people seem charismatic, and I would guess they include Abraham, Jesus, Mohamed, Joseph"Mormon" Smith, and Jim "Kool-Aid" Jones.

Another parallel theme in the Big Three is that you cannot be a "good" or moral person unless you agree with them. That demand is used by all the Zealots, Prophets and assorted Holy men. Just how they pursue that claim is where Christianity and Mohammedanism diverge, and without making this comparison anymore long-winded, the differences are cultural. Its like real estate, its location, location, location. The tribes of the Islamic world are primitive and avoid progress. Christians, for what they have become, are heavily influence by 500 years of evolving Western social progress and attitudes.

Do you think Christianity itself may have influenced that "500 years of evolving Western social progress and attitudes"?

Do you think it was progressive 2000 years ago?

First question: I have to generalise with such a big subject. Yes, I would say there are Christian influences on Western social progress, but in my view of history, the narrow-mindedness of Christians, and its negative influence, cannot be discounted.

However, it was Christianity that led to the end of canabalism in the South Pacific. It was Christians who first clamoured for the end of the WEST African slave trade. One hundred years later the East Atrican slave trade out of Zanzibar was still going well for the Muzlims. They believe Africans were fair game, because (you guessed it) they were infidels. The trade was carried on until the first world war, and still exists today in Muzlim Africa.

Second Question: Was Christianity progressive 2000 years ago? That would be Christs time, and I would have to say, "No". But it may have later, although life remained pretty grim and getting large populations under control is what Christianity was used for.

So it ends up being a mixed bag. Too many people think of Christianity as it appears in cosy BBC vicarage dramas. I don't. When Christ died, they had to come up with something fast to keep it going. I also don't believe Christ would condone much of it. The spread of Christianity was a convenient medium for the powerful to gain control of vast territories and wealth. To them, the love thigh neighbour stuff was the sugar coating. There were a number of ways to get people to swallow it. The threat of pain, self-interest, and here's a real doozie: Guilt. You are responsible for the death of the son of God. Everything about you is evil, from your disgusting body to your inner-most thoughts. This is how the assertion Christianity came from God was enforced: from death at the stake for the unbeliever, right down to the sanctimonious schoolmaster with his cane. So, I don't believe Christians can claim too much in the way of Western social progress. What it did, has been paid for time and time again, in blood, sweat and tears.

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« Last Edit: Mar 27^th, 2018 at 9:57pm by issuevoter »

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freediver Gold Member Offline www.ozpolitic.com Posts: 47531 At my desk.	Re: comparison of Christianity and Islam Reply #46 - Mar 28^th, 2018 at 6:19am So Christianity was not progressive 2000 years ago because the 'love thy neighbor' stuff was not what it was really about? Do you think it had anything to do with the ending of slavery in Europe?
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freediver

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Re: comparison of Christianity and Islam
Reply #47 - Apr 20^th, 2018 at 12:22pm

Goldkam attempting to argue that the Bible instructs priests to rape children the way Islam instructs Muslims to slaughter innocent people:

freediver wrote on Apr 20^th, 2018 at 12:15pm:

goldkam wrote on Apr 19^th, 2018 at 10:16pm:

Lfreediver wrote on Apr 19^th, 2018 at 8:55pm:

goldkam wrote on Apr 19^th, 2018 at 8:47pm:

freediver wrote on Apr 19^th, 2018 at 8:18pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Apr 19^th, 2018 at 3:54pm:

goldkam wrote on Apr 19^th, 2018 at 3:16pm:

Just to confirm your statistics are coming from an Anti-Islamic website, which already had an intrinsic hate towards the faith. Now in many cases this is extremist Islam, in which most Muslims do not associate themselves with. Classing it as just Islam is like classing the molesting of children by the Catholic church just Catholic. They are outcasted and sick human beings who are not associated with the Catholic Church any more.

Nailed it.

There are no instructions in the Bible to rape children.

There are explicit instructions in the Quran to terrorise the infidel.

Here is the problem with religion in general. Absolutely anything can be interpreted within any framework and within any part of the bible. I am not religious and thus have no favouritism towards any. What needs to be understood is Christianity was created in a time (1st century) where war, conflict etc. was not as prevalent compared to the highly volatile war filled environment Islam was conceived in. Additionally the Sunni and Shi'a divide aided in this futility. Don't agree but understand the differences.

Or (another similitude) is that of a rain-laden cloud from the sky: In it are zones of darkness, and thunder and lightning: They press their fingers in their ears to keep out the stunning thunder-clap, the while they are in terror of death. But Allah is ever round the rejecters of Faith!

Soon shall We cast terror into the hearts of the Unbelievers, for that they joined companions with Allah, for which He had sent no authority: their abode will be the Fire: And evil is the home of the wrong-doers!

Remember thy Lord inspired the angels (with the message): "I am with you: give firmness to the Believers: I will instil terror into the hearts of the Unbelievers: smite ye above their necks and smite all their finger-tips off them."

Against them make ready your strength to the utmost of your power, including steeds of war, to strike terror into (the hearts of) the enemies, of Allah and your enemies, and others besides, whom ye may not know, but whom Allah doth know. Whatever ye shall spend in the cause of Allah, shall be repaid unto you, and ye shall not be treated unjustly.

And We refrain from sending the signs, only because the men of former generations treated them as false: We sent the she-camel to the Thamud to open their eyes, but they treated her wrongfully: We only send the Signs by way of terror (and warning from evil).

Behold! We told thee that thy Lord doth encompass mankind round about: We granted the vision which We showed thee, but as a trial for men,- as also the Cursed Tree (mentioned) in the Qur'an: We put terror (and warning) into them, but it only increases their inordinate transgression!

All just a terrorball misunderstanding eh?

Now quote all those verses from the Bible telling priests to rape children.

Lets just clarify something before I go any further, since you have manipulated what I originally stated. I never stated that the actions of one from a particular religion were taken from their scripture source, thus your question is one that is separate to the premise of mine. To answer your question no, there is no specific reference to the rape of children in the bible (that I interpret anyway)

To the passage you cited, yes it is confronting and quite violent. But there is no specific reference to death or killing rather just instilling fear in the lives of those who don't believe. Nothing Christianity didn't do throughout the 1900's and even today (if you don't believe you are a bad person and will go to hell) Once again my point is proven further, the whole passage is completely up to interpretation whether that be literal or metaphorical.

I quoted some of the verses with the word terror in them. You are incorrect that they do not specifically mention death. Did you not read them? I did a bit more highlighting for you.

All just a terrorball misunderstanding eh?

Now quote all those verses from the Bible telling priests to rape children.

If you want specific references to killing, there are plenty of them. For example:

http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1469837313

5. Then when the Sacred Months (the Ist, 7th, 11th, and 12th months of the Islamic calendar) have passed, then kill the Mushrikun wherever you find them, and capture them and besiege them, and prepare for them each and every ambush. But if they repent and perform As-Salat (Iqamat-as-Salat), and give Zakat, then leave their way free.

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Jasin

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Re: comparison of Christianity and Islam
Reply #48 - Apr 20^th, 2018 at 12:31pm

issuevoter wrote on Mar 27^th, 2018 at 9:51pm:

freediver wrote on Mar 26^th, 2018 at 9:28pm:

issuevoter wrote on Mar 26^th, 2018 at 12:28pm:

The subject of religion tends to get lumped in with the belief in God. ( I have never seen a description of God that was not pathetic.) However, "religion" means way of life, the natives of Rapa Nui had a religion even without those stone images, so its important to make that distinction.

The big three religions, that are said to originate with someone named Abraham, have a conceited claim that one of these Gods is a better idea than the several they replaced. Of course you cannot use math or logic to support this notion, but for the average person's use, it probably seemed more convenient to have the Cosmos run by a king than a committee, back when Abraham assured his surrounding tribe that he alone was on intimate terms with this "King." Fortunately, for us all, social progress and public education have led to the spread of critical-thinking, so on average, people are not as easily convinced as they once were.

The two main types of Abrahmic God proponents are the "lay down the law" by what previous zealots wrote, and the glassy-eyed self-appointed representatives of God on Earth.
The human psyche, as exhibited so far, seems to have a penchant this second type of "God" fixation. To the average, rather uncomplicated person, these people seem charismatic, and I would guess they include Abraham, Jesus, Mohamed, Joseph"Mormon" Smith, and Jim "Kool-Aid" Jones.

Another parallel theme in the Big Three is that you cannot be a "good" or moral person unless you agree with them. That demand is used by all the Zealots, Prophets and assorted Holy men. Just how they pursue that claim is where Christianity and Mohammedanism diverge, and without making this comparison anymore long-winded, the differences are cultural. Its like real estate, its location, location, location. The tribes of the Islamic world are primitive and avoid progress. Christians, for what they have become, are heavily influence by 500 years of evolving Western social progress and attitudes.

Do you think Christianity itself may have influenced that "500 years of evolving Western social progress and attitudes"?

Do you think it was progressive 2000 years ago?

First question: I have to generalise with such a big subject. Yes, I would say there are Christian influences on Western social progress, but in my view of history, the narrow-mindedness of Christians, and its negative influence, cannot be discounted.

However, it was Christianity that led to the end of canabalism in the South Pacific. It was Christians who first clamoured for the end of the WEST African slave trade. One hundred years later the East Atrican slave trade out of Zanzibar was still going well for the Muzlims. They believe Africans were fair game, because (you guessed it) they were infidels. The trade was carried on until the first world war, and still exists today in Muzlim Africa.

Second Question: Was Christianity progressive 2000 years ago? That would be Christs time, and I would have to say, "No". But it may have later, although life remained pretty grim and getting large populations under control is what Christianity was used for.

So it ends up being a mixed bag. Too many people think of Christianity as it appears in cosy BBC vicarage dramas. I don't. When Christ died, they had to come up with something fast to keep it going. I also don't believe Christ would condone much of it. The spread of Christianity was a convenient medium for the powerful to gain control of vast territories and wealth. To them, the love thigh neighbour stuff was the sugar coating. There were a number of ways to get people to swallow it. The threat of pain, self-interest, and here's a real doozie: Guilt. You are responsible for the death of the son of God. Everything about you is evil, from your disgusting body to your inner-most thoughts. This is how the assertion Christianity came from God was enforced: from death at the stake for the unbeliever, right down to the sanctimonious schoolmaster with his cane. So, I don't believe Christians can claim too much in the way of Western social progress. What it did, has been paid for time and time again, in blood, sweat and tears.

Close but no cigar.
It was the WEST AFRICANS who INVENTED/INNOVATED the concept of SLAVERY itself. Way long before the Arabs formulated together as a people and way long before Islam brought the Arabs together as one.
The Egyptians learned Slavery from the 'black' Africans and only used it in small doses. Yep - all those pyramid builders were mostly 'paid' workers and that's how Ramses 2nd defeated all his military enemies around Egypt. He couldn't 'fight', so he pumped up the Mass Artworks, created Economy and Growth and the people came and the enemies had the rug taken out from beneath them.
Art:1
Military: 0

So not only did 'blacks' invent 'racism' via the Indian CASTE system.
They also invented 'Slavery'.

...what goes around, comes around. Wink

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mozzaok

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Re: comparison of Christianity and Islam
Reply #49 - Apr 20^th, 2018 at 5:34pm

Islam is behind the 8 ball, because their book is supposedly the divine, unalterable, last word from God.
That's it, I am sick to death of you pricks, stop asking frickin' questions, this is IT!!!! (sorta ting)

However, the OLDEST copy ever known, the one the real quran bashers supposedly learn off by heart, was recently superceded by an earlier copy.

Guess what, NOT a perfect match, Oh Oh!

Well that fricks their first theory into a cocked hat, God, got it wrong, Mo got it wrong, or they all got it wrong.

Strong evidence would suggest all of the above.

At least the christians know their book is shite made up by money grubbing prigs at conferences fro crooks, like that nice to seeya tingo.

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Gordon Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 20234 Gordon Gender:	Re: comparison of Christianity and Islam Reply #50 - Apr 20^th, 2018 at 5:40pm Does it really matter which religion is better or worse? The simple fact is the way Islam is practice and the things they dwell on make it the worst religion. When Mormons start strapping nail bombs to themselves in the name of Joseph Smith, I'll ramp up my critique of them.
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TheFunPolice

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Re: comparison of Christianity and Islam
Reply #51 - Apr 20^th, 2018 at 5:40pm

issuevoter wrote on Mar 27^th, 2018 at 9:51pm:

freediver wrote on Mar 26^th, 2018 at 9:28pm:

issuevoter wrote on Mar 26^th, 2018 at 12:28pm:

The subject of religion tends to get lumped in with the belief in God. ( I have never seen a description of God that was not pathetic.) However, "religion" means way of life, the natives of Rapa Nui had a religion even without those stone images, so its important to make that distinction.

The big three religions, that are said to originate with someone named Abraham, have a conceited claim that one of these Gods is a better idea than the several they replaced. Of course you cannot use math or logic to support this notion, but for the average person's use, it probably seemed more convenient to have the Cosmos run by a king than a committee, back when Abraham assured his surrounding tribe that he alone was on intimate terms with this "King." Fortunately, for us all, social progress and public education have led to the spread of critical-thinking, so on average, people are not as easily convinced as they once were.

The two main types of Abrahmic God proponents are the "lay down the law" by what previous zealots wrote, and the glassy-eyed self-appointed representatives of God on Earth.
The human psyche, as exhibited so far, seems to have a penchant this second type of "God" fixation. To the average, rather uncomplicated person, these people seem charismatic, and I would guess they include Abraham, Jesus, Mohamed, Joseph"Mormon" Smith, and Jim "Kool-Aid" Jones.

Another parallel theme in the Big Three is that you cannot be a "good" or moral person unless you agree with them. That demand is used by all the Zealots, Prophets and assorted Holy men. Just how they pursue that claim is where Christianity and Mohammedanism diverge, and without making this comparison anymore long-winded, the differences are cultural. Its like real estate, its location, location, location. The tribes of the Islamic world are primitive and avoid progress. Christians, for what they have become, are heavily influence by 500 years of evolving Western social progress and attitudes.

Do you think Christianity itself may have influenced that "500 years of evolving Western social progress and attitudes"?

Do you think it was progressive 2000 years ago?

First question: I have to generalise with such a big subject. Yes, I would say there are Christian influences on Western social progress, but in my view of history, the narrow-mindedness of Christians, and its negative influence, cannot be discounted.

However, it was Christianity that led to the end of canabalism in the South Pacific. It was Christians who first clamoured for the end of the WEST African slave trade. One hundred years later the East Atrican slave trade out of Zanzibar was still going well for the Muzlims. They believe Africans were fair game, because (you guessed it) they were infidels. The trade was carried on until the first world war, and still exists today in Muzlim Africa.

Second Question: Was Christianity progressive 2000 years ago? That would be Christs time, and I would have to say, "No". But it may have later, although life remained pretty grim and getting large populations under control is what Christianity was used for.

So it ends up being a mixed bag. Too many people think of Christianity as it appears in cosy BBC vicarage dramas. I don't. When Christ died, they had to come up with something fast to keep it going. I also don't believe Christ would condone much of it. The spread of Christianity was a convenient medium for the powerful to gain control of vast territories and wealth. To them, the love thigh neighbour stuff was the sugar coating. There were a number of ways to get people to swallow it. The threat of pain, self-interest, and here's a real doozie: Guilt. You are responsible for the death of the son of God. Everything about you is evil, from your disgusting body to your inner-most thoughts. This is how the assertion Christianity came from God was enforced: from death at the stake for the unbeliever, right down to the sanctimonious schoolmaster with his cane. So, I don't believe Christians can claim too much in the way of Western social progress. What it did, has been paid for time and time again, in blood, sweat and tears.

Christianity is just the belief that Jesus was the son of God!

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TheFunPolice Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 9009 waggawagga Gender:	Re: comparison of Christianity and Islam Reply #52 - Apr 20^th, 2018 at 5:44pm freediver wrote on Mar 26^th, 2018 at 10:11pm: Jasin are you playing a word association game that you forgot to tell us about? Classic!
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goldkam

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Re: comparison of Christianity and Islam
Reply #53 - Apr 20^th, 2018 at 5:56pm

Gordon wrote on Apr 20^th, 2018 at 5:40pm:

Does it really matter which religion is better or worse?

The simple fact is the way Islam is practice and the things they dwell on make it the worst religion.

When Mormons start strapping nail bombs to themselves in the name of Joseph Smith, I'll ramp up my critique of them.

I think a distinction needs to be drawn between Muslim and Islamic extremists. Just like one has to be drawn between Christians and Christian priests who molest Children.

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goldkam

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Re: comparison of Christianity and Islam
Reply #54 - Apr 20^th, 2018 at 5:58pm

freediver wrote on Apr 20^th, 2018 at 12:22pm:

Goldkam attempting to argue that the Bible instructs priests to rape children the way Islam instructs Muslims to slaughter innocent people:

freediver wrote on Apr 20^th, 2018 at 12:15pm:

[quote author=goldkam link=1516791683/379#379 date=1524140162]L[quote author=freediver link=1516791683/378#378 date=1524135357][quote author=goldkam link=1516791683/377#377 date=1524134875][quote author=freediver link=1516791683/376#376 date=1524133124][quote author=greggerypeccary link=1516791683/374#374 date=1524117249][quote author=goldkam link=1516791683/373#373 date=1524114987]

Just to confirm your statistics are coming from an Anti-Islamic website, which already had an intrinsic hate towards the faith. Now in many cases this is extremist Islam, in which most Muslims do not associate themselves with. Classing it as just Islam is like classing the molesting of children by the Catholic church just Catholic. They are outcasted and sick human beings who are not associated with the Catholic Church any more.

Nailed it.

Where did I state that, you sure do like to draw stretching implications for your own premise.

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freediver

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Re: comparison of Christianity and Islam
Reply #55 - Apr 20^th, 2018 at 6:31pm

goldkam wrote on Apr 20^th, 2018 at 5:56pm:

Gordon wrote on Apr 20^th, 2018 at 5:40pm:

Does it really matter which religion is better or worse?

The simple fact is the way Islam is practice and the things they dwell on make it the worst religion.

When Mormons start strapping nail bombs to themselves in the name of Joseph Smith, I'll ramp up my critique of them.

I think a distinction needs to be drawn between Muslim and Islamic extremists. Just like one has to be drawn between Christians and Christian priests who molest Children.

Can you elaborate on this distinction?

For example, if a Muslim justified a historical genocide of Jews by insisting they were literally a mindless collective out to undermine the country, would that make them an extremist?

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Gordon

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Re: comparison of Christianity and Islam
Reply #56 - Apr 20^th, 2018 at 6:46pm

goldkam wrote on Apr 20^th, 2018 at 5:56pm:

Gordon wrote on Apr 20^th, 2018 at 5:40pm:

Does it really matter which religion is better or worse?

The simple fact is the way Islam is practice and the things they dwell on make it the worst religion.

When Mormons start strapping nail bombs to themselves in the name of Joseph Smith, I'll ramp up my critique of them.

I think a distinction needs to be drawn between Muslim and Islamic extremists. Just like one has to be drawn between Christians and Christian priests who molest Children.

Not a good example.

Christians (particularly Catholics) should be blamed for not taking action against priests. Just about every catholic knew the rumours and they should have boycotted the church until abuse was stamped out. It can be said they are guilty of being a member of the church, but of course they don't agree child molestation is good.

The goals (not necessarily the methods) of Muslim extremists are widely shared by many Muslims and there is little distinction between jihadists and conservative Muslims apart from the violence.

We allow Islamists to immigrate to Australia every day and we're told to shut up because unless the commit violence, there's nothing wrong with them.

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Valkie Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 16098 Central Coast Gender:	Re: comparison of Christianity and Islam Reply #57 - Apr 20^th, 2018 at 6:52pm But, but, but Moderate muzzos love to protest They love to carry placards and give their kids placards to carry The placards pronounce Death to any who insult the CULT Behead this who insult the CULT They tell us that they will kill the infidels THIS IS MODERATE ISLAM
Back to top	I HAVE A DREAM A WONDERFUL, PEACEFUL, BEAUTIFUL DREAM. A DREAM OF A WORLD THAT HAS NEVER KNOWN ISLAM A DREAM OF A WORLD FREE FROM THE HORRORS OF ISLAM. SUCH A WONDERFUL DREAM O HOW I WISH IT WERE TRU IP Logged

TheFunPolice

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Re: comparison of Christianity and Islam
Reply #58 - Apr 20^th, 2018 at 6:52pm

Gordon wrote on Apr 20^th, 2018 at 6:46pm:

goldkam wrote on Apr 20^th, 2018 at 5:56pm:

Gordon wrote on Apr 20^th, 2018 at 5:40pm:

Does it really matter which religion is better or worse?

The simple fact is the way Islam is practice and the things they dwell on make it the worst religion.

When Mormons start strapping nail bombs to themselves in the name of Joseph Smith, I'll ramp up my critique of them.

I think a distinction needs to be drawn between Muslim and Islamic extremists. Just like one has to be drawn between Christians and Christian priests who molest Children.

Not a good example.

Christians (particularly Catholics) should be blamed for not taking action against priests. Just about every catholic knew the rumours and they should have boycotted the church until abuse was stamped out. It can be said they are guilty of being a member of the church, but of course they don't agree child molestation is good.

The goals (not necessarily the methods) of Muslim extremists are widely shared by many Muslims and there is little distinction between jihadists and conservative Muslims apart from the violence.

We allow Islamists to immigrate to Australia every day and we're told to shut up because unless the commit violence, there's nothing wrong with them.

Christians stopped going to Church a long time ago for such reasons: you seem to not acknolwedge that.

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Yadda

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Re: comparison of Christianity and Islam
Reply #59 - Apr 20^th, 2018 at 7:08pm

comparison of Christianity and Islam

Towards an accountability to truth....

ISLAM

"O ye who believe! Ask not questions about things which, if made plain to you, may cause you trouble.....
Some people before you did ask such questions, and on that account lost their faith."
Koran 5.101, 102

Judaism

Exodus 23:7
Keep thee far from a false matter; and the innocent and righteous slay thou not: for I will not justify the wicked.

Christianity

1 Thessalonians 5:21
Prove all things; hold fast that which is good.
22 Abstain from all appearance of evil.

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"....And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead."
Luke 16:31

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