Australian Politics Forum - Retreating Glaciers in pictures

President Elect, The Mechanic

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Re: Retreating Glaciers in pictures
Reply #90 - Jan 19^th, 2018 at 11:13am

The_Barnacle wrote on Jan 14^th, 2018 at 10:44am:

Enough of Alaska

Lets go to New Zealand. Opposite hemisphere, opposite side of the world.
Here we have 3 glaciers retreating.
The Tasman Glacier
The Hooker Glacier
The Mueller Glacier

Top picture is 1990 and bottom picture 2007

http://i68.tinypic.com/2j4rip2.jpg

New Zealand it is Barney..

Quote:

Reader Phil Hutchings writes via email:

This article in Nature Communications caught my eye!

This is a beauty. This week, Nature Communications published an explanation as to why (at least) 58 New Zealand glaciers grew in the twenty-five years to 2008.

The aberrant behaviour by these naughty glaciers was perfectly explicable though – it was caused by “regional cooling”. Roll Eyes

Researchers from NZ’s National Institute of Water and Atmospheric Research and Victoria University prepared, yes, a model of the Southern Alps. And yes, they found that in their model, lower air and adjacent ocean temperatures (during those 25 years) were correlated with the growing glaciers.

Fair enough.

But where is the support for this claim ?

Baney must have cherry picked the only Glacier that was retreating in NZ at that time/. Cheesy

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President Elect, The Mechanic

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Re: Retreating Glaciers in pictures
Reply #91 - Jan 19^th, 2018 at 11:16am

I would take more notice of this local than those climate liars who dont even get out of their chairs to study these things for real..

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Rob R February 15, 2017 at 1:23 pm
I live about 2 hours drive from Franz Josef, on the West Coast of the South Island. It is my experience, over more than 50 years, that the climate here and consequently the snowfall in Alpine areas, is quite dynamic. The glaciers in question respond quickly to temperature and precipitation. Currently the terminal faces are retreating rapidly. However, this should reverse over the next few years as the current summer has been very cold with abundant and regular snowfall in the ice accumulation zones. Down at sea level its been one of the wettest summers in recorded history. The last time the glaciers were fed by massive summer snowfall was 1998/99 after the big El Nino. And what have we just had? A super-sized El Nino. So the current summers precipitation pattern is a repeat of that event. Who would have thunk it? After the huge 1998/99 precipitation event the Franz Josef glacier advanced by about 1 km or so, then subsequently melted back. It looks as if this cycle is about to repeat. It will take probably 4 or 5 years before the new advance reaches its maximum extent, so long as the weather during that period is reasonably average.

interesting he talks about the last couple of summers being cool... it has been here in australia as well...

then they tell you its been the HOTTEST YEAR EVA Cheesy

fair dinkum... Roll Eyes

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Annie February 15, 2017 at 2:29 pm
I think it was in 2001 that my husband and I took a flight over some of the glaciers and to see Mt Cook and Mt Tasman. We flew from the airfield at Franz Josef and the pilot was at considerable pains to point out where the leading edge of the glacier was circa 12000 years ago! It had retreated during that time by quite a distance but where was the industry and motor traffic in those days?!

Quote:

Moa February 15, 2017 at 2:48 pm
Living in New Zealand I can say that we seem to be getting colder. In 2012 in Wellington we had snow down to sea level that lasted for 3 days, which I don’t recall anything like that since the 1970s. This year the summer is exceptionally poor, and looking at the handy global images here on WUWT it is easy to see that we are surrounded by unusually cold water – so I’d expect we may get snow down to sea level this year too. Perhaps this is just ‘weather’ or just the La Nina, but it seems to be gradually getting just a little colder.

Nothing dramatic nor alarming, but it seems colder than the 1980s and 1990s. Which is what you’d expect if Svensmark and Shaviv’s theory about the integrated effect of Solar magnetic activity (which changes cloud cover and the heat stored in the oceans) was a good description of the recent natural climate variability.

So, I’m nothing more than an anecdotal datapoint, but I am onsite

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englandrichard February 15, 2017 at 12:44 pm
Same old, same old.

“Riddle of the Glaciers
1939-

The steady retreat of the glaciers in New Zealand he said had been observed during
the last 70 years. Photographs taken in 1896 and 1935 showed that several glaciers had
retreated distances varying from 100 yards to half a mile in 40 years”

The phenomenon, however, was world-wide. Equally impressive records were obtainable from Switzerland, Scandinavia, Iceland and the United States. Attempts had been made to reconcile these observations with the Brucknercycle of climate change every 16 years. Professor Speight said, but so many discrepancies occurred that in his opinion precise synchronisation with that period could not be accepted.

In Alaska glaciers had been retreating from 100 to 200 years, the average rate of recession being about 50 feet a year. The Antarctic ice-sheet also showed signs of recent retreat. “In fact,” said Professor Speight, “no case is recorded of a region of the world in which there are present signs of an advance. This is quite apart from the general retreat since the pleistocene age and may be merely a pacing phase. Its precise significance can only be determined by continued observation.”

http://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/17557868?searchTerm=NEW%20ZEALAND%20GLACIERS%20melting&searchLimits=

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« Last Edit: Jan 19^th, 2018 at 11:27am by President Elect, The Mechanic »

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The_Barnacle

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Re: Retreating Glaciers in pictures
Reply #92 - Jan 20^th, 2018 at 10:23am

President Elect, The Mechanic wrote on Jan 19^th, 2018 at 11:16am:

Quote:

englandrichard February 15, 2017 at 12:44 pm
Same old, same old.

“Riddle of the Glaciers
1939-

The steady retreat of the glaciers in New Zealand he said had been observed during
the last 70 years. Photographs taken in 1896 and 1935 showed that several glaciers had
retreated distances varying from 100 yards to half a mile in 40 years”

The phenomenon, however, was world-wide. Equally impressive records were obtainable from Switzerland, Scandinavia, Iceland and the United States. Attempts had been made to reconcile these observations with the Brucknercycle of climate change every 16 years. Professor Speight said, but so many discrepancies occurred that in his opinion precise synchronisation with that period could not be accepted.

In Alaska glaciers had been retreating from 100 to 200 years, the average rate of recession being about 50 feet a year. The Antarctic ice-sheet also showed signs of recent retreat. “In fact,” said Professor Speight, “no case is recorded of a region of the world in which there are present signs of an advance. This is quite apart from the general retreat since the pleistocene age and may be merely a pacing phase. Its precise significance can only be determined by continued observation.”

http://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/17557868?searchTerm=NEW%20ZEALAND%20GLACIERS%20melting&searchLimits=

You do know what the word "retreat" means don't you Grin

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The_Barnacle

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Re: Retreating Glaciers in pictures
Reply #93 - Jan 20^th, 2018 at 10:27am

Where do I start Mechanic? You have posted so much nonsense that it's actually quite funny. I'll try and keep it simple for you so you can understand.

President Elect, The Mechanic wrote on Jan 19^th, 2018 at 10:50am:

countries depend on these Glaciers to melt to get their fresh water supply... if they don't, those countries are in trouble...

if the world goes into a cooling period which looks likely... there are going to be millions of people I trouble... Deaths are inevitable...

That's not how glaciers work Mechanic. All glaciers are melting at the bottom and are fed new snow at the top. They are literally rivers of ice. If the melting at the bottom happens faster than the snow accumulating at the top they start to recede. So you comment is completely absurd

President Elect, The Mechanic wrote on Jan 19^th, 2018 at 10:50am:

Baney must have cherry picked the only Glacier that was retreating in NZ at that time/.

Some New Zealand glaciers did advance for a few years in the 90s and 00s (due to local conditions) but since 2011 have been in rapid decline. Over all they have declined massively over the past 150 years and it is the long term trend in global climate that is important, not cherry picking a few years in New Zealand.

President Elect, The Mechanic wrote on Jan 19^th, 2018 at 10:50am:

interesting he talks about the last couple of summers being cool... it has been here in australia as well...

Once again you are confusing local weather with global climate

No one has ever claimed that ALL of the worlds 198,000 glaciers are retreating 100% of the time. There will be brief periods of advance like they had in NZ and some areas of the Himalaya. But the long term trend globally is for glaciers to be retreating in a warming world.

Mechanic, sonce you clearly don't understand how glaciers work i suggest that you are wasting your time and our time in this thread

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Jovial Monk Gold Member Offline Dogs not cats! Posts: 51474 Gender:	Re: Retreating Glaciers in pictures Reply #94 - Jan 20^th, 2018 at 10:27am There is nothing noisier than the weather record. A very few glaciers are advancing: ones in high latitudes or at high altitudes and favorably oriented to the prevailing winds benefit from the higher evaporation/precipitation due to AGW.
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Grendel

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Re: Retreating Glaciers in pictures
Reply #95 - Jan 20^th, 2018 at 10:35am

Grendel wrote on Jan 16^th, 2018 at 8:19am:

Geez, how many times do you Chicken Littles need to be told facts before you stop panicking?

Grendel wrote on Jan 15^th, 2018 at 2:27pm:

Grendel wrote on Jan 10^th, 2018 at 9:53am:

Grendel wrote on Jan 9^th, 2018 at 4:27pm:

Don't fwet Kiddies... the Earth has had no glaciers before and was a snowball before... all had nothing to do with man

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The_Barnacle Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 6205 Melbourne Gender:	Re: Retreating Glaciers in pictures Reply #96 - Jan 20^th, 2018 at 10:36am Kilimanjaro's glaciers are likely to disappear completely by 2035 However Mt Kilimanjaro's glaciers have to contend not only with global warming but with land clearing in the surrounding areas which mean less snow falls on it
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lee

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Re: Retreating Glaciers in pictures
Reply #97 - Jan 20^th, 2018 at 12:18pm

Ah yes. Kilimanjaro.

"In July the prevailing wind across the high plains of northern Tanzania is from the south. The models show that during that month deforestation around the mountain is shifting cloud cover and precipitation up the south side of the mountain. Modeling of weather patterns on the windward side of Kilimanjaro shows a decrease in rain and cloudiness at levels up to 6,500 feet above sea level, but an increase in rainfall and cloud cover from 6,500 to about 13,000 high.

July rainfall on the north side of the mountain has decreased at higher elevations (5,850 to 13,000 feet) in response to deforestation. There is little precipitation at the peak during July and the models indicate that hasn't changed in response to deforestation.

"Kilimanjaro is an isolated mountain, so under normal circumstances most of the local air flow goes around the mountain," Nair said. "When you cut down forests you reduce surface roughness, which increases wind speed at higher elevations on the windward slopes. That faster wind over steep upper slopes causes more intense cloud formation and precipitation up the side of the mountain." Nair and Fairman are extending their model runs to include the fall and spring rainy seasons, when the dominant weather rolls in from the Indian Ocean.

"We need to look at the complete annual cycle before we understand the impacts that deforestation is having on the mountain peak," Fairman said."

https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2011/03/110305112136.htm

Naughty locals. Now if the let trees actually grow and stop cutting them down....

So anthropogenic surely but not AGW. Wink

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The_Barnacle Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 6205 Melbourne Gender:	Re: Retreating Glaciers in pictures Reply #98 - Jan 21^st, 2018 at 10:24am Jacamba Glacier, Peruvian Andes The picture on the left is 1980 the picture on the right is 2000
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lee Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 21533 Gender:	Re: Retreating Glaciers in pictures Reply #99 - Jan 21^st, 2018 at 11:08am The_Barnacle wrote on Jan 21^st, 2018 at 10:24am: Jacamba Glacier, Peruvian Andes The picture on the left is 1980 the picture on the right is 2000 But according to the WMO that's just weather. A minimum 30 years is climate.
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President Elect, The Mechanic

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Re: Retreating Glaciers in pictures
Reply #100 - Jan 21^st, 2018 at 4:15pm

Quote:

A recurring trick by climate hysterics is to show an old photograph of one of GNP’s glaciers next to a more recent photo of the same glacier showing a massive decrease in size. Often the pictures do not precisely specify what calendar dates the photos were taken on. This is significant because the melting season is quite short and rapid, and an image from August can be starkly different from an image from just weeks earlier.

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President Elect, The Mechanic Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 17501 Gender:	Re: Retreating Glaciers in pictures Reply #101 - Jan 21^st, 2018 at 5:34pm Himalaya Now Repeating Grand Solar Minimum Drought Pattern : Crop Losses to Follow
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The_Barnacle

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Re: Retreating Glaciers in pictures
Reply #102 - Jan 23^rd, 2018 at 8:16pm

President Elect, The Mechanic wrote on Jan 21^st, 2018 at 4:15pm:

Quote:

A recurring trick by climate hysterics is to show an old photograph of one of GNP’s glaciers next to a more recent photo of the same glacier showing a massive decrease in size. Often the pictures do not precisely specify what calendar dates the photos were taken on. This is significant because the melting season is quite short and rapid, and an image from August can be starkly different from an image from just weeks earlier.

You forgot the link Mechanic
https://wattsupwiththat.com/2017/09/20/are-the-glaciers-in-glacier-national-park...

A thoroughly discredited propaganda site and once again they are completely wrong. Glaciers change very little from Summer to Winter as they are self insulating.

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The_Barnacle Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 6205 Melbourne Gender:	Re: Retreating Glaciers in pictures Reply #103 - Jan 23^rd, 2018 at 8:18pm Saskatchewan Glacier in Banff Canada has retreated several kilometers in these photos. To suggest that this could happen in the space of one season shows a complete ignorance of hoe glaciers work
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lee

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Re: Retreating Glaciers in pictures
Reply #104 - Jan 23^rd, 2018 at 8:33pm

" Results from studies by Heusser (1956) and Robinson (1988) at the Saskatchewan Glacier revealed that their was evidence for multiple LIA events, including a significant mid 19 th century advance and a less extensive event during the early and middle parts of the 18 th century. Evidence of a pre-Little Ice Age event comes detrital wood washed out of the glacier ( Luckman et al. 1993a, 1994). The wood (dating between 3200 and 2500 14 C yrs B.P.) provides strong circumstantial evidence for an advance equivalent to the Peyto Advance (3300-2800 yrs. B.P.) at the Saskatchewan Glacier (Luckman et al. 1993a ; Luckman 1996). In late-August 1999, a severe rainstorm caused significant stream channel incision along the northern periphery of the Saskatchewan Glacier. "

http://www.geog.uvic.ca/dept/uvtrl/2000-02.pdf

Oh dear, glaciers advance and retreat, get eroded.

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