Title: Re: Retreating Glaciers in pictures
Post by lee on Jan 8th, 2018 at 11:09am
The_Barnacle wrote on Jan 8th, 2018 at 10:57am: lee wrote on Jan 8th, 2018 at 10:29am:Look it up yourself. I'm not your lacky. I have provided a thread showing how the worlds glaciers are retreating over time. If you have an issue with it then that's your problem. |
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Yep. No data. Don't forget how, according to the IPCC cloud cover is also probably net warming. So many variables, so little (no) data.
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Title: Re: Retreating Glaciers in pictures
Post by The_Barnacle on Jan 8th, 2018 at 2:53pm
Upsala Glacier in Patagonia near the border of Argentina and Chile
http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?action=downloadfile;file=pattagonia_ice_retreat.jpg (24 KB | 28
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Title: Re: Retreating Glaciers in pictures
Post by Grendel on Jan 9th, 2018 at 4:27pm
Don't fwet Barnacle... the Earth has had no glaciers before and was a snowball before... all had nothing to do with man.
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Title: Re: Retreating Glaciers in pictures
Post by The Mechanic on Jan 9th, 2018 at 7:49pm
Quote:The Rhone Glacier was smaller than today for most of the Holocene |
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they must have had a lot of cars on the roads back then and coal fired power plants etc... oh wait... :-/
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Title: Re: Retreating Glaciers in pictures
Post by The_Barnacle on Jan 9th, 2018 at 8:30pm
http://i68.tinypic.com/rhjt47.jpgThe Penderson Glacier in Alaska. Photo on the left circa 1930s. Photo on the right 2005
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Title: Re: Retreating Glaciers in pictures
Post by The Mechanic on Jan 9th, 2018 at 9:38pm
The_Barnacle wrote on Jan 9th, 2018 at 8:30pm: http://i68.tinypic.com/rhjt47.jpg
The Penderson Glacier in Alaska. Photo on the left circa 1930s. Photo on the right 2005 |
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did you mean the Pendersen Glacier? Alaska has been in a cooling trend for more than 30 years... but others say its warming... go figure.. :-/
http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?action=downloadfile;file=FAIRBANKSINTLAP_AK_AverageMeanTemperature_Mar_Mar_1916_2017.gif (43 KB | 25
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Title: Re: Retreating Glaciers in pictures
Post by The Mechanic on Jan 9th, 2018 at 9:53pm
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Title: Re: Retreating Glaciers in pictures
Post by Grendel on Jan 10th, 2018 at 9:53am
Grendel wrote on Jan 9th, 2018 at 4:27pm:Don't fwet Barnacle... the Earth has had no glaciers before and was a snowball before... all had nothing to do with man. |
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Title: Re: Retreating Glaciers in pictures
Post by The_Barnacle on Jan 10th, 2018 at 10:18am
President Elect, The Mechanic wrote on Jan 9th, 2018 at 9:38pm: The_Barnacle wrote on Jan 9th, 2018 at 8:30pm: http://i68.tinypic.com/rhjt47.jpg
The Penderson Glacier in Alaska. Photo on the left circa 1930s. Photo on the right 2005 |
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did you mean the Pendersen Glacier?
Alaska has been in a cooling trend for more than 30 years... but others say its warming...
go figure.. :-/ |
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Alaska is a big place Mechanic, how nice of you to cherry pick ONE location in Fairbanks. That is pretty typical of the AGW deniers though. On the other hand I have been posting retreating glaciers from all over the world.
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Title: Re: Retreating Glaciers in pictures
Post by lee on Jan 10th, 2018 at 12:13pm
The_Barnacle wrote on Jan 10th, 2018 at 10:18am:how nice of you to cherry pick ONE location in Fairbanks. |
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Can you post a graph of another location in Fairbanks? ;)
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Title: Re: Retreating Glaciers in pictures
Post by The Mechanic on Jan 10th, 2018 at 12:25pm
The_Barnacle wrote on Jan 10th, 2018 at 10:18am: President Elect, The Mechanic wrote on Jan 9th, 2018 at 9:38pm: The_Barnacle wrote on Jan 9th, 2018 at 8:30pm: http://i68.tinypic.com/rhjt47.jpg
The Penderson Glacier in Alaska. Photo on the left circa 1930s. Photo on the right 2005 |
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did you mean the Pendersen Glacier?
Alaska has been in a cooling trend for more than 30 years... but others say its warming...
go figure.. :-/ |
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Alaska is a big place Mechanic, how nice of you to cherry pick ONE location in Fairbanks. That is pretty typical of the AGW deniers though.
On the other hand I have been posting retreating glaciers from all over the world. |
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you have to be kidding me Barny... Fairbanks is in Alaska of what we were talking about... fair dinkum.. ::)
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Title: Re: Retreating Glaciers in pictures
Post by The_Barnacle on Jan 10th, 2018 at 3:23pm
President Elect, The Mechanic wrote on Jan 10th, 2018 at 12:25pm: The_Barnacle wrote on Jan 10th, 2018 at 10:18am: President Elect, The Mechanic wrote on Jan 9th, 2018 at 9:38pm: The_Barnacle wrote on Jan 9th, 2018 at 8:30pm: http://i68.tinypic.com/rhjt47.jpg
The Penderson Glacier in Alaska. Photo on the left circa 1930s. Photo on the right 2005 |
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did you mean the Pendersen Glacier?
Alaska has been in a cooling trend for more than 30 years... but others say its warming...
go figure.. :-/ |
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Alaska is a big place Mechanic, how nice of you to cherry pick ONE location in Fairbanks. That is pretty typical of the AGW deniers though.
On the other hand I have been posting retreating glaciers from all over the world. |
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you have to be kidding me Barny... Fairbanks is in Alaska of what we were talking about...
fair dinkum.. ::) |
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Alaska is almost a quarter the size of Australia. It is a big place. To suggest that Fairbanks represents the whole of Alaska is clearly ludicrous.
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Title: Re: Retreating Glaciers in pictures
Post by The Mechanic on Jan 12th, 2018 at 8:45am
I found this interesting barny....
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5BEX-M0vugE
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Title: Re: Retreating Glaciers in pictures
Post by The_Barnacle on Jan 13th, 2018 at 11:05am
Since you seem so interested in Alaska Mechanic, here is another retreating glacier from there. This time it's the McCall Glacier. Left is 1958 and right is 2003 http://i63.tinypic.com/w02k51.jpg
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Title: Re: Retreating Glaciers in pictures
Post by Damn OzPol on Jan 13th, 2018 at 12:22pm
Wow, that glacier has really thinned!
Enjoying the photos, Barnacle, please keep posting them and ignore the calls from the peanut gallery.
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Title: Re: Retreating Glaciers in pictures
Post by Grendel on Jan 13th, 2018 at 12:40pm
Don't fwet Kiddies... the Earth has had no glaciers before and was a snowball before... all had nothing to do with man.
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Title: Re: Retreating Glaciers in pictures
Post by The_Barnacle on Jan 13th, 2018 at 1:02pm
Grendel wrote on Jan 13th, 2018 at 12:40pm:Don't fwet Kiddies... the Earth has had no glaciers before and was a snowball before... all had nothing to do with man. |
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In the past it was natural variations in the atmosphere/earths orbit/sun or continental drift. This time it is due to human induced changes in the atmosphere That is the difference
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Title: Re: Retreating Glaciers in pictures
Post by lee on Jan 13th, 2018 at 1:25pm
The_Barnacle wrote on Jan 13th, 2018 at 1:02pm: Grendel wrote on Jan 13th, 2018 at 12:40pm:Don't fwet Kiddies... the Earth has had no glaciers before and was a snowball before... all had nothing to do with man. |
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In the past it was natural variations in the atmosphere/earths orbit/sun or continental drift.
This time it is due to human induced changes in the atmosphere
That is the difference |
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Proof? Data?
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Title: Re: Retreating Glaciers in pictures
Post by The Mechanic on Jan 13th, 2018 at 4:29pm
Glaciers extend and retreat all of the time through history...
sometimes they melt altogether...
so what?
historical data shows that some parts of Alaska worm during the Solar Minimum...
= Melted Glaciers...
you'd know that if you had watched that clip I pout up for you.. .
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Title: Re: Retreating Glaciers in pictures
Post by The_Barnacle on Jan 14th, 2018 at 10:40am
President Elect, The Mechanic wrote on Jan 13th, 2018 at 4:29pm:Glaciers extend and retreat all of the time through history...
sometimes they melt altogether...
so what?
historical data shows that some parts of Alaska worm during the Solar Minimum...
= Melted Glaciers...
you'd know that if you had watched that clip I pout up for you.. . |
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Since I'm showing world wide glaciers melting you must concede that the Earth is warming. That must also mean that you were wrong to accuse climate scientists of fudging the data. I look forward to your apology. PS I don't watch dodgy youtude videos
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Title: Re: Retreating Glaciers in pictures
Post by The_Barnacle on Jan 14th, 2018 at 10:44am
Enough of Alaska Lets go to New Zealand. Opposite hemisphere, opposite side of the world. Here we have 3 glaciers retreating. The Tasman Glacier The Hooker Glacier The Mueller Glacier Top picture is 1990 and bottom picture 2007 http://i68.tinypic.com/2j4rip2.jpg
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Title: Re: Retreating Glaciers in pictures
Post by Ajax on Jan 14th, 2018 at 10:50am
Climate scientists have been fudging the data since the conception of the AGW religion, including atmospheric and ocean temperatures. Nothing to apologise for there my friend. Glaciers have increased and or melted before in the past, it's all there in our history..... ;) https://image.ibb.co/kN5hgm/medieveal.jpg
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Title: Re: Retreating Glaciers in pictures
Post by lee on Jan 14th, 2018 at 11:03am
The_Barnacle wrote on Jan 14th, 2018 at 10:40am:Since I'm showing world wide glaciers melting |
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What about those pesky Himalayan glaciers that are advancing? Shouldn't they be retreating too under GLOBAL warming?
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Title: Re: Retreating Glaciers in pictures
Post by The_Barnacle on Jan 14th, 2018 at 12:21pm
Lets go back to the Himalaya This is Kyetrack Glacier which is in the Cho Uyu region of the Himalaya http://i64.tinypic.com/2lktqud.jpg
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Title: Re: Retreating Glaciers in pictures
Post by lee on Jan 14th, 2018 at 12:32pm
The_Barnacle wrote on Jan 14th, 2018 at 12:21pm:Lets go back to the Himalaya |
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Didn't answer the question Barney. ;D ;D ;D ;D "Climate change doesn't affect all glaciers in the same way. While scientists say most of the world's glaciers are retreating due to the warming climate, some glaciers in the Himalayas are stable or even slowly advancing, a new study finds." https://www.livescience.com/30028-himalayan-glaciers-global-warming.html" The Karakoram is a picturesque chain of snowy peaks along the border of India, Pakistan and China. It's part of the larger Himalaya mountain chain, which is losing its glaciers as the climate warms. Yet observations in the Karakoram region reveal that the glaciers there are stable, and snowfall is increasing instead of decreasing." https://www.livescience.com/48256-asia-karakoram-glaciers-stability.html
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Title: Re: Retreating Glaciers in pictures
Post by The Mechanic on Jan 14th, 2018 at 12:40pm
A lot of climate liars use pictures taken at different times...
A matter of weeks can make a huge difference as some melting seasons are quite fast...
There are glaciers all over the world that are growing... Germany 🇩🇪 Alaska, New Zealand 🇳🇿 Himalayan, Russia 🇷🇺 Argentina 🇦🇷 France 🇫🇷 Switzerland 🇨🇭 California, Canada 🇨🇦 Etc ...
Do not be fooled by lies smoke and mirrors people 🤨
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Title: Re: Retreating Glaciers in pictures
Post by Grendel on Jan 15th, 2018 at 2:27pm
Grendel wrote on Jan 10th, 2018 at 9:53am: Grendel wrote on Jan 9th, 2018 at 4:27pm:Don't fwet Barnacle... the Earth has had no glaciers before and was a snowball before... all had nothing to do with man. |
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Title: Re: Retreating Glaciers in pictures
Post by Nom De Plume on Jan 15th, 2018 at 4:29pm
TheFunPolice wrote on Dec 24th, 2017 at 3:26pm: lee wrote on Dec 24th, 2017 at 1:20pm: Rates of change! |
| It fits. The industrial Revolution began approx 20 yrs prior to the glaciers retreating.
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Title: Re: Retreating Glaciers in pictures
Post by lee on Jan 15th, 2018 at 4:56pm
Nom de Plume wrote on Jan 15th, 2018 at 4:29pm:It fits. The industrial Revolution began approx 20 yrs prior to the glaciers retreating. |
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So the glaciers started retreating about 1780? Evidence?
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Title: Re: Retreating Glaciers in pictures
Post by Nom De Plume on Jan 15th, 2018 at 5:37pm
lee wrote on Jan 15th, 2018 at 4:56pm: Nom de Plume wrote on Jan 15th, 2018 at 4:29pm:It fits. The industrial Revolution began approx 20 yrs prior to the glaciers retreating. |
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So the glaciers started retreating about 1780? Evidence? |
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If you had questioned the date I gave for the start of the IR as being wrong, before demanding proof of climate change, I would have taken you seriously. But you didnt, because you are ignorant and therefore incapable meaningful discussion. You are just a baiting troll looking for meaningless disputes. Grow a brain. ::)
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Title: Re: Retreating Glaciers in pictures
Post by Damn OzPol on Jan 15th, 2018 at 5:47pm
The_Barnacle wrote on Jan 14th, 2018 at 12:21pm:Lets go back to the Himalaya This is Kyetrack Glacier which is in the Cho Uyu region of the Himalaya
http://i64.tinypic.com/2lktqud.jpg |
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I think the first nuclear war (both sides throwing nukes) might be between India and China over the diminishing water resources of the Himalayan ice field.
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Title: Re: Retreating Glaciers in pictures
Post by lee on Jan 15th, 2018 at 6:02pm
Nom de Plume wrote on Jan 15th, 2018 at 5:37pm: lee wrote on Jan 15th, 2018 at 4:56pm: Nom de Plume wrote on Jan 15th, 2018 at 4:29pm:It fits. The industrial Revolution began approx 20 yrs prior to the glaciers retreating. |
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So the glaciers started retreating about 1780? Evidence? |
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If you had questioned the date I gave for the start of the IR as being wrong, before demanding proof of climate change, I would have taken you seriously. But you didnt, because you are ignorant and therefore incapable meaningful discussion.
You are just a baiting troll looking for meaningless disputes. Grow a brain. ::) |
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You never mentioned anything about climate change. ;) You are one talking about glaciers melting 20 years from the start of the IR. Obviously you can't back up your assertion. Just another braindead idiot in the Aussie mould.
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Title: Re: Retreating Glaciers in pictures
Post by lee on Jan 15th, 2018 at 6:04pm
Jovial Monk wrote on Jan 15th, 2018 at 5:47pm:I think the first nuclear war (both sides throwing nukes) might be between India and China over the diminishing water resources of the Himalayan ice field. |
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Oh, the net effect of the retreating, advancing, static glaciers? ;D ;D ;D ;D
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Title: Re: Retreating Glaciers in pictures
Post by Grendel on Jan 16th, 2018 at 8:19am
Geez, how many times do you Chicken Littles need to be told facts before you stop panicking? Grendel wrote on Jan 15th, 2018 at 2:27pm: Grendel wrote on Jan 10th, 2018 at 9:53am: Grendel wrote on Jan 9th, 2018 at 4:27pm:Don't fwet Kiddies... the Earth has had no glaciers before and was a snowball before... all had nothing to do with man. |
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Title: Re: Retreating Glaciers in pictures
Post by Damn OzPol on Jan 16th, 2018 at 11:28am
Keep posting those photos of retreating glaciers please Barnacle!
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Title: Re: Retreating Glaciers in pictures
Post by Grendel on Jan 16th, 2018 at 1:45pm
Grendel wrote on Jan 16th, 2018 at 8:19am:Geez, how many times do you Chicken Littles need to be told facts before you stop panicking?
Grendel wrote on Jan 15th, 2018 at 2:27pm: Grendel wrote on Jan 10th, 2018 at 9:53am: Grendel wrote on Jan 9th, 2018 at 4:27pm:Don't fwet Kiddies... the Earth has had no glaciers before and was a snowball before... all had nothing to do with man. |
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Title: Re: Retreating Glaciers in pictures
Post by The Mechanic on Jan 16th, 2018 at 7:15pm
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Title: Re: Retreating Glaciers in pictures
Post by Aussie on Jan 16th, 2018 at 7:27pm
President Elect, The Mechanic wrote on Jan 16th, 2018 at 7:15pm:That was 16 years ago. Got anything recent?
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Title: Re: Retreating Glaciers in pictures
Post by The Mechanic on Jan 16th, 2018 at 7:30pm
Aussie wrote on Jan 16th, 2018 at 7:27pm: President Elect, The Mechanic wrote on Jan 16th, 2018 at 7:15pm:
That was 16 years ago. Got anything recent? |
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check the date of the report
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Title: Re: Retreating Glaciers in pictures
Post by The_Barnacle on Jan 16th, 2018 at 8:27pm
lee wrote on Jan 14th, 2018 at 11:03am:What about those pesky Himalayan glaciers that are advancing?
Shouldn't they be retreating too under GLOBAL warming? |
| Nom de Plume wrote on Jan 15th, 2018 at 5:37pm:You are just a baiting troll looking for meaningless disputes. Grow a brain. ::) |
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I know, I worked that out a long time ago Another Himalyan glacier this time in Nepal This one has left nothing but an empty valley where a glacier once stood http://i65.tinypic.com/fu2v0k.jpg
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Title: Re: Retreating Glaciers in pictures
Post by Damn OzPol on Jan 16th, 2018 at 8:29pm
There could be a shooting war, even a nuclear war, between India and China over the last remaining glaciers and their meltwater.
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Title: Re: Retreating Glaciers in pictures
Post by lee on Jan 16th, 2018 at 8:51pm
Jovial Monk wrote on Jan 16th, 2018 at 8:29pm:There could be a shooting war, even a nuclear war, between India and China over the last remaining glaciers and their meltwater. |
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yes dear. have a Bex and a good lie down. China could stop building islands in the Spratley group. I could win lotto. You worked out a long time ago I don't suffer fools gladly? You don't seem to accept it. ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
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Title: Re: Retreating Glaciers in pictures
Post by The_Barnacle on Jan 18th, 2018 at 8:17pm
This one speaks for itself http://i65.tinypic.com/20kwtb4.jpg
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Title: Re: Retreating Glaciers in pictures
Post by lee on Jan 18th, 2018 at 8:58pm
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Title: Re: Retreating Glaciers in pictures
Post by The Mechanic on Jan 18th, 2018 at 9:35pm
The_Barnacle wrote on Jan 16th, 2018 at 8:27pm: lee wrote on Jan 14th, 2018 at 11:03am:What about those pesky Himalayan glaciers that are advancing?
Shouldn't they be retreating too under GLOBAL warming? |
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Nom de Plume wrote on Jan 15th, 2018 at 5:37pm:You are just a baiting troll looking for meaningless disputes. Grow a brain. ::) |
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I know, I worked that out a long time ago
Another Himalyan glacier this time in Nepal This one has left nothing but an empty valley where a glacier once stood
http://i65.tinypic.com/fu2v0k.jpg |
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THIS ONE... wtf is it called barney? and I what month did each picture get taken? you are a fraud... >:(
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Title: Re: Retreating Glaciers in pictures
Post by lee on Jan 18th, 2018 at 10:40pm
Barney wants us to go back to the LIA so the glaciers advance again. Quite how he will keep warm without fossil fuels is problematic.
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Title: Re: Retreating Glaciers in pictures
Post by The Mechanic on Jan 19th, 2018 at 10:48am
Quote:IPCC officials admit mistake over melting Himalayan glaciers
Senior members of the UN's climate science body admit a claim that Himalayan glaciers could melt away by 2035 was unfounded
Killer Mountain in the Himalayas The UN's climate science body has admitted that a claim made in its 2007 report - that Himalayan glaciers could melt away by 2035 - was unfounded.
The admission today followed a New Scientist article last week that revealed the source of the claim made in the 2007 report by the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC) was not peer-reviewed scientific literature – but a media interview with a scientist conducted in 1999. Several senior scientists have now said the claim was unrealistic and that the large Himalayan glaciers could not melt in a few decades.
In a statement (pdf), the IPCC said the paragraph "refers to poorly substantiated estimates of rate of recession and date for the disappearance of Himalayan glaciers. In drafting the paragraph in question, the clear and well-established standards of evidence, required by the IPCC procedures, were not applied properly."
It added: "The IPCC regrets the poor application of well-established IPCC procedures in this instance." But the statement calls for no action beyond stating a need for absolute adherence to IPCC quality control processes. "We reaffirm our strong commitment to ensuring this level of performance," the statement said.
The IPCC says the broader conclusion of the report is unaffected: that glaciers have melted significantly, that this will accelerate and affect the supply of water from major mountain ranges "where more than one-sixth of the world population currently lives".
Jean-Pascal van Ypersele, vice-chair of the IPCC, added that the mistake did nothing to undermine the large body of evidence that showed the climate was warming and that human activity was largely to blame. He told BBC News: "I don't see how one mistake in a 3,000-page report can damage the credibility of the overall report. "
The Indian environment minister, Jairam Ramesh, said earlier in the week: "The [glaciers] are indeed receding and the rate is cause for great concern … [but the claim is] not based on an iota of scientific evidence."
The Indian government criticised the IPCC's glaciers claim in November at the launch of its own discussion paper, written by geologist Vijay Kumar Raina, which admitted that while some glaciers in the Himalayas were retreating, it was "nothing out of the ordinary. Nothing to suggest as some have said that they will disappear."
At the time, the chairman of the IPCC, Rajendra Pachauri, dismissed the report as not peer-reviewed and said: "With the greatest of respect this guy retired years ago and I find it totally baffling that he comes out and throws out everything that has been established years ago."
Georg Kaser, an expert in tropical glaciology at the University of Innsbruck in Austria and a lead author for the IPCC, said he had warned that the 2035 prediction was clearly wrong in 2006, months before the report was published. "This [date] is not just a little bit wrong, but far out of any order of magnitude," he said.
"All the responsible people are aware of this weakness in the fourth assessment. All are aware of the mistakes made," he said. "If it had not been the focus of so much public opinion, we would have said 'we will do better next time'. It is clear now that working group II has to be restructured."
The reports of the IPCC collate the work of thousands of scientists and are assessed through a process of peer-review and then approved by the 192 governments who are members of the UN Framework Convention on Climate Change. Its work is seen as the most comprehensive account of global warming.
The chair of the IPCC, Rajendra Pachauri, has made no personal comment on the glacier claim: But yesterday, at an energy conference in Abu Dhabi, he responded to British newspaper articles criticising his chairmanship of the IPCC. "They can't attack the science so they attack the chairman. But they won't sink me. I am the unsinkable Molly Brown. In fact, I will float much higher," he told the Guardian.
The row centres on the IPCC's "fourth assessment" report in 2007, which said "glaciers in the Himalayas are receding faster than in any other part of the world and, if the present rate continues, the likelihood of them disappearing by the year 2035 and perhaps sooner is very high if the Earth keeps warming at the current rate." The claim appears in the full report, but not in the more widely read "Summary for policymakers".
The claim was attributed to a report by the campaign group WWF, but in the New Scientist article, Guardian writer Fred Pearce noted that WWF had cited a 1999 interview in the magazine with Indian glaciologist Syed Hasnain as the source of the claim. Hasnain told the magazine last week that "it is not proper for IPCC to include references from popular magazines or newspapers".
Additional reporting: Ian Wylie |
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Title: Re: Retreating Glaciers in pictures
Post by The Mechanic on Jan 19th, 2018 at 10:50am
Quote:Himalayan glaciers are growing, not shrinking
Things are not as they seemed to be in the IPCC report.
Not only are the Himalayan glaciers not shrinking, they’re growing. Discovery reports:
Perched on the soaring Karakoram mountains in the Western Himalayas, a group of some 230 glaciers are bucking the global warming trend.
They’re growing.
Throughout much of the Tibetan Plateau, high-altitude glaciers are dwindling in the face of rising temperatures.
The situation is potentially dire for the hundreds of millions of people living in China, India and throughout southeast Asia who depend on the glaciers for their water supply.
But in the rugged western corner of the plateau, the story is different, according to a new study. Among legendary peaks of Mt. Everest like K2 and Nanga Parbat, glaciers with a penthouse view of the world are growing, and have been for almost three decades.
“These are the biggest mid-latitude glaciers in the world,” John Shroder of the University of Nebraska-Omaha said. “And all of them are either holding still, or advancing.” |
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so you see... countries depend on these Glaciers to melt to get their fresh water supply... if they don't, those countries are in trouble... if the world goes into a cooling period which looks likely... there are going to be millions of people I trouble... Deaths are inevitable...
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Title: Re: Retreating Glaciers in pictures
Post by The Mechanic on Jan 19th, 2018 at 11:13am
The_Barnacle wrote on Jan 14th, 2018 at 10:44am:Enough of Alaska
Lets go to New Zealand. Opposite hemisphere, opposite side of the world. Here we have 3 glaciers retreating. The Tasman Glacier The Hooker Glacier The Mueller Glacier
Top picture is 1990 and bottom picture 2007
http://i68.tinypic.com/2j4rip2.jpg |
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New Zealand it is Barney.. Quote:Reader Phil Hutchings writes via email:
This article in Nature Communications caught my eye!
This is a beauty. This week, Nature Communications published an explanation as to why (at least) 58 New Zealand glaciers grew in the twenty-five years to 2008.
The aberrant behaviour by these naughty glaciers was perfectly explicable though – it was caused by “regional cooling”. ::)
Researchers from NZ’s National Institute of Water and Atmospheric Research and Victoria University prepared, yes, a model of the Southern Alps. And yes, they found that in their model, lower air and adjacent ocean temperatures (during those 25 years) were correlated with the growing glaciers.
Fair enough.
But where is the support for this claim ? |
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Baney must have cherry picked the only Glacier that was retreating in NZ at that time/. :D
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Title: Re: Retreating Glaciers in pictures
Post by The Mechanic on Jan 19th, 2018 at 11:16am
I would take more notice of this local than those climate liars who dont even get out of their chairs to study these things for real.. Quote:Rob R February 15, 2017 at 1:23 pm I live about 2 hours drive from Franz Josef, on the West Coast of the South Island. It is my experience, over more than 50 years, that the climate here and consequently the snowfall in Alpine areas, is quite dynamic. The glaciers in question respond quickly to temperature and precipitation. Currently the terminal faces are retreating rapidly. However, this should reverse over the next few years as the current summer has been very cold with abundant and regular snowfall in the ice accumulation zones. Down at sea level its been one of the wettest summers in recorded history. The last time the glaciers were fed by massive summer snowfall was 1998/99 after the big El Nino. And what have we just had? A super-sized El Nino. So the current summers precipitation pattern is a repeat of that event. Who would have thunk it? After the huge 1998/99 precipitation event the Franz Josef glacier advanced by about 1 km or so, then subsequently melted back. It looks as if this cycle is about to repeat. It will take probably 4 or 5 years before the new advance reaches its maximum extent, so long as the weather during that period is reasonably average. |
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interesting he talks about the last couple of summers being cool... it has been here in australia as well... then they tell you its been the HOTTEST YEAR EVA :D :D :D fair dinkum... ::) Quote:Annie February 15, 2017 at 2:29 pm I think it was in 2001 that my husband and I took a flight over some of the glaciers and to see Mt Cook and Mt Tasman. We flew from the airfield at Franz Josef and the pilot was at considerable pains to point out where the leading edge of the glacier was circa 12000 years ago! It had retreated during that time by quite a distance but where was the industry and motor traffic in those days?! |
| Quote:Moa February 15, 2017 at 2:48 pm Living in New Zealand I can say that we seem to be getting colder. In 2012 in Wellington we had snow down to sea level that lasted for 3 days, which I don’t recall anything like that since the 1970s. This year the summer is exceptionally poor, and looking at the handy global images here on WUWT it is easy to see that we are surrounded by unusually cold water – so I’d expect we may get snow down to sea level this year too. Perhaps this is just ‘weather’ or just the La Nina, but it seems to be gradually getting just a little colder.
Nothing dramatic nor alarming, but it seems colder than the 1980s and 1990s. Which is what you’d expect if Svensmark and Shaviv’s theory about the integrated effect of Solar magnetic activity (which changes cloud cover and the heat stored in the oceans) was a good description of the recent natural climate variability.
So, I’m nothing more than an anecdotal datapoint, but I am onsite :) |
| Quote:englandrichard February 15, 2017 at 12:44 pm Same old, same old.
“Riddle of the Glaciers 1939- The steady retreat of the glaciers in New Zealand he said had been observed during the last 70 years. Photographs taken in 1896 and 1935 showed that several glaciers had retreated distances varying from 100 yards to half a mile in 40 years”
The phenomenon, however, was world-wide. Equally impressive records were obtainable from Switzerland, Scandinavia, Iceland and the United States. Attempts had been made to reconcile these observations with the Brucknercycle of climate change every 16 years. Professor Speight said, but so many discrepancies occurred that in his opinion precise synchronisation with that period could not be accepted.
In Alaska glaciers had been retreating from 100 to 200 years, the average rate of recession being about 50 feet a year. The Antarctic ice-sheet also showed signs of recent retreat. “In fact,” said Professor Speight, “no case is recorded of a region of the world in which there are present signs of an advance. This is quite apart from the general retreat since the pleistocene age and may be merely a pacing phase. Its precise significance can only be determined by continued observation.”
http://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/17557868?searchTerm=NEW%20ZEALAND%20GLACIERS%20melting&searchLimits= |
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Title: Re: Retreating Glaciers in pictures
Post by The_Barnacle on Jan 20th, 2018 at 10:23am
President Elect, The Mechanic wrote on Jan 19th, 2018 at 11:16am: Quote:englandrichard February 15, 2017 at 12:44 pm Same old, same old.
“Riddle of the Glaciers 1939- The steady retreat of the glaciers in New Zealand he said had been observed during the last 70 years. Photographs taken in 1896 and 1935 showed that several glaciers had retreated distances varying from 100 yards to half a mile in 40 years”
The phenomenon, however, was world-wide. Equally impressive records were obtainable from Switzerland, Scandinavia, Iceland and the United States. Attempts had been made to reconcile these observations with the Brucknercycle of climate change every 16 years. Professor Speight said, but so many discrepancies occurred that in his opinion precise synchronisation with that period could not be accepted.
In Alaska glaciers had been retreating from 100 to 200 years, the average rate of recession being about 50 feet a year. The Antarctic ice-sheet also showed signs of recent retreat. “In fact,” said Professor Speight, “no case is recorded of a region of the world in which there are present signs of an advance. This is quite apart from the general retreat since the pleistocene age and may be merely a pacing phase. Its precise significance can only be determined by continued observation.”
http://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/17557868?searchTerm=NEW%20ZEALAND%20GLACIERS%20melting&searchLimits= |
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You do know what the word "retreat" means don't you ;D ;D ;D
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Title: Re: Retreating Glaciers in pictures
Post by The_Barnacle on Jan 20th, 2018 at 10:27am
Where do I start Mechanic? You have posted so much nonsense that it's actually quite funny. I'll try and keep it simple for you so you can understand. President Elect, The Mechanic wrote on Jan 19th, 2018 at 10:50am:countries depend on these Glaciers to melt to get their fresh water supply... if they don't, those countries are in trouble...
if the world goes into a cooling period which looks likely... there are going to be millions of people I trouble... Deaths are inevitable... |
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That's not how glaciers work Mechanic. All glaciers are melting at the bottom and are fed new snow at the top. They are literally rivers of ice. If the melting at the bottom happens faster than the snow accumulating at the top they start to recede. So you comment is completely absurd President Elect, The Mechanic wrote on Jan 19th, 2018 at 10:50am:Baney must have cherry picked the only Glacier that was retreating in NZ at that time/. |
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Some New Zealand glaciers did advance for a few years in the 90s and 00s (due to local conditions) but since 2011 have been in rapid decline. Over all they have declined massively over the past 150 years and it is the long term trend in global climate that is important, not cherry picking a few years in New Zealand. President Elect, The Mechanic wrote on Jan 19th, 2018 at 10:50am:interesting he talks about the last couple of summers being cool... it has been here in australia as well... |
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Once again you are confusing local weather with global climate No one has ever claimed that ALL of the worlds 198,000 glaciers are retreating 100% of the time. There will be brief periods of advance like they had in NZ and some areas of the Himalaya. But the long term trend globally is for glaciers to be retreating in a warming world. Mechanic, sonce you clearly don't understand how glaciers work i suggest that you are wasting your time and our time in this thread
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Title: Re: Retreating Glaciers in pictures
Post by Jovial Monk on Jan 20th, 2018 at 10:27am
There is nothing noisier than the weather record.
A very few glaciers are advancing: ones in high latitudes or at high altitudes and favorably oriented to the prevailing winds benefit from the higher evaporation/precipitation due to AGW.
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Title: Re: Retreating Glaciers in pictures
Post by Grendel on Jan 20th, 2018 at 10:35am
Grendel wrote on Jan 16th, 2018 at 8:19am:Geez, how many times do you Chicken Littles need to be told facts before you stop panicking?
Grendel wrote on Jan 15th, 2018 at 2:27pm: Grendel wrote on Jan 10th, 2018 at 9:53am: Grendel wrote on Jan 9th, 2018 at 4:27pm:Don't fwet Kiddies... the Earth has had no glaciers before and was a snowball before... all had nothing to do with man. |
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Title: Re: Retreating Glaciers in pictures
Post by The_Barnacle on Jan 20th, 2018 at 10:36am
Kilimanjaro's glaciers are likely to disappear completely by 2035 However Mt Kilimanjaro's glaciers have to contend not only with global warming but with land clearing in the surrounding areas which mean less snow falls on it http://i63.tinypic.com/122go7s.jpg
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Title: Re: Retreating Glaciers in pictures
Post by lee on Jan 20th, 2018 at 12:18pm
Ah yes. Kilimanjaro. "In July the prevailing wind across the high plains of northern Tanzania is from the south. The models show that during that month deforestation around the mountain is shifting cloud cover and precipitation up the south side of the mountain. Modeling of weather patterns on the windward side of Kilimanjaro shows a decrease in rain and cloudiness at levels up to 6,500 feet above sea level, but an increase in rainfall and cloud cover from 6,500 to about 13,000 high. July rainfall on the north side of the mountain has decreased at higher elevations (5,850 to 13,000 feet) in response to deforestation. There is little precipitation at the peak during July and the models indicate that hasn't changed in response to deforestation. "Kilimanjaro is an isolated mountain, so under normal circumstances most of the local air flow goes around the mountain," Nair said. "When you cut down forests you reduce surface roughness, which increases wind speed at higher elevations on the windward slopes. That faster wind over steep upper slopes causes more intense cloud formation and precipitation up the side of the mountain." Nair and Fairman are extending their model runs to include the fall and spring rainy seasons, when the dominant weather rolls in from the Indian Ocean. "We need to look at the complete annual cycle before we understand the impacts that deforestation is having on the mountain peak," Fairman said." https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2011/03/110305112136.htmNaughty locals. Now if the let trees actually grow and stop cutting them down.... So anthropogenic surely but not AGW. ;)
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Title: Re: Retreating Glaciers in pictures
Post by The_Barnacle on Jan 21st, 2018 at 10:24am
Jacamba Glacier, Peruvian Andes The picture on the left is 1980 the picture on the right is 2000 http://i64.tinypic.com/2r2btd5.jpg
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Title: Re: Retreating Glaciers in pictures
Post by lee on Jan 21st, 2018 at 11:08am
The_Barnacle wrote on Jan 21st, 2018 at 10:24am:Jacamba Glacier, Peruvian Andes
The picture on the left is 1980 the picture on the right is 2000 |
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But according to the WMO that's just weather. A minimum 30 years is climate. ;)
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Title: Re: Retreating Glaciers in pictures
Post by The Mechanic on Jan 21st, 2018 at 4:15pm
Quote:A recurring trick by climate hysterics is to show an old photograph of one of GNP’s glaciers next to a more recent photo of the same glacier showing a massive decrease in size. Often the pictures do not precisely specify what calendar dates the photos were taken on. This is significant because the melting season is quite short and rapid, and an image from August can be starkly different from an image from just weeks earlier. |
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Title: Re: Retreating Glaciers in pictures
Post by The Mechanic on Jan 21st, 2018 at 5:34pm
Himalaya Now Repeating Grand Solar Minimum Drought Pattern : Crop Losses to Follow
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G365sSefBBE&feature=em-uploademail
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Title: Re: Retreating Glaciers in pictures
Post by The_Barnacle on Jan 23rd, 2018 at 8:16pm
President Elect, The Mechanic wrote on Jan 21st, 2018 at 4:15pm: Quote:A recurring trick by climate hysterics is to show an old photograph of one of GNP’s glaciers next to a more recent photo of the same glacier showing a massive decrease in size. Often the pictures do not precisely specify what calendar dates the photos were taken on. This is significant because the melting season is quite short and rapid, and an image from August can be starkly different from an image from just weeks earlier. |
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You forgot the link Mechanic https://wattsupwiththat.com/2017/09/20/are-the-glaciers-in-glacier-national-park-growing/comment-page-1/A thoroughly discredited propaganda site and once again they are completely wrong. Glaciers change very little from Summer to Winter as they are self insulating.
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Title: Re: Retreating Glaciers in pictures
Post by The_Barnacle on Jan 23rd, 2018 at 8:18pm
Saskatchewan Glacier in Banff Canada has retreated several kilometers in these photos. To suggest that this could happen in the space of one season shows a complete ignorance of hoe glaciers work http://i67.tinypic.com/16440y.jpg
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Title: Re: Retreating Glaciers in pictures
Post by lee on Jan 23rd, 2018 at 8:33pm
" Results from studies by Heusser (1956) and Robinson (1988) at the Saskatchewan Glacier revealed that their was evidence for multiple LIA events, including a significant mid 19 th century advance and a less extensive event during the early and middle parts of the 18 th century. Evidence of a pre-Little Ice Age event comes detrital wood washed out of the glacier ( Luckman et al. 1993a, 1994). The wood (dating between 3200 and 2500 14 C yrs B.P.) provides strong circumstantial evidence for an advance equivalent to the Peyto Advance (3300-2800 yrs. B.P.) at the Saskatchewan Glacier (Luckman et al. 1993a ; Luckman 1996). In late-August 1999, a severe rainstorm caused significant stream channel incision along the northern periphery of the Saskatchewan Glacier. " http://www.geog.uvic.ca/dept/uvtrl/2000-02.pdfOh dear, glaciers advance and retreat, get eroded.
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Title: Re: Retreating Glaciers in pictures
Post by Grendel on Jan 24th, 2018 at 6:55am
Official verification Greenies... Quote:Space-based Observations of the Earth
Earth is a Dynamic Planet
Change is perhaps the only constant in our planet's history. Since the Earth's beginning about 4.5 billion years ago, natural climate and environmental conditions on our planet have been in constant flux. Solar variability, volcanic eruptions, meteor impacts, the emergence of life, the formation of an atmosphere rich in oxygen and greenhouse gases, changing ocean circulation patterns, wildfires—over the millennia these and other geological forces shaped an intricately intertwined global climate system that we are only just beginning to understand. |
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Title: Re: Retreating Glaciers in pictures
Post by The_Barnacle on Jan 26th, 2018 at 10:38am
Grendel wrote on Jan 24th, 2018 at 6:55am:Official verification Greenies...
Quote:Space-based Observations of the Earth
Earth is a Dynamic Planet
Change is perhaps the only constant in our planet's history. Since the Earth's beginning about 4.5 billion years ago, natural climate and environmental conditions on our planet have been in constant flux. Solar variability, volcanic eruptions, meteor impacts, the emergence of life, the formation of an atmosphere rich in oxygen and greenhouse gases, changing ocean circulation patterns, wildfires—over the millennia these and other geological forces shaped an intricately intertwined global climate system that we are only just beginning to understand. |
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Exactly, thats why 7 billion people pumping CO2 into the atmosphere is also going to have an effect on the planet
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Title: Re: Retreating Glaciers in pictures
Post by The_Barnacle on Jan 26th, 2018 at 10:39am
North Western Glacier in Alaska Top is JULY 1909, bottom is 2005 http://i65.tinypic.com/71tc9y.jpg
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Title: Re: Retreating Glaciers in pictures
Post by Grendel on Jan 26th, 2018 at 10:47am
LOL
last time I look barny... people were part of nature.
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Title: Re: Retreating Glaciers in pictures
Post by Grendel on Jan 26th, 2018 at 10:48am
hey Barny.... still ignoring the FACTS I see... Grendel wrote on Jan 20th, 2018 at 10:35am: Grendel wrote on Jan 16th, 2018 at 8:19am:Geez, how many times do you Chicken Littles need to be told facts before you stop panicking?
Grendel wrote on Jan 15th, 2018 at 2:27pm: Grendel wrote on Jan 10th, 2018 at 9:53am: Grendel wrote on Jan 9th, 2018 at 4:27pm:Don't fwet Kiddies... the Earth has had no glaciers before and was a snowball before... all had nothing to do with man. |
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Title: Re: Retreating Glaciers in pictures
Post by The_Barnacle on Jan 26th, 2018 at 11:06am
President Elect, The Mechanic wrote on Jan 25th, 2018 at 9:17pm: Nom de Plume wrote on Jan 25th, 2018 at 11:01am:Oh, Bobby, I hope you have a will of steel... you're gonna need it. |
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don't worry..
most of the "blowins" will disappear once the election is over..
then the real men can get back to work and discuss how Barnacle is totally wrong on his glacial theories and cherry picking.. ;) |
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Really? ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D If I'm cherry picking then there must be a lot of cherries because a muge majority of the worlds glaciers are retreating
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Title: Re: Retreating Glaciers in pictures
Post by The_Barnacle on Jan 26th, 2018 at 11:07am
Grendel wrote on Jan 26th, 2018 at 10:48am:hey Barny.... still ignoring the FACTS I see...
Grendel wrote on Jan 20th, 2018 at 10:35am: Grendel wrote on Jan 16th, 2018 at 8:19am:Geez, how many times do you Chicken Littles need to be told facts before you stop panicking?
Grendel wrote on Jan 15th, 2018 at 2:27pm: Grendel wrote on Jan 10th, 2018 at 9:53am: Grendel wrote on Jan 9th, 2018 at 4:27pm:Don't fwet Kiddies... the Earth has had no glaciers before and was a snowball before... all had nothing to do with man. |
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If you haven't got anything constructive to add then perhaps you should leave the discussion to the adults
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Title: Re: Retreating Glaciers in pictures
Post by lee on Jan 26th, 2018 at 11:38am
The_Barnacle wrote on Jan 26th, 2018 at 10:38am:Exactly, thats why 7 billion people pumping CO2 into the atmosphere is also going to have an effect on the planet |
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Greening of the planet? Sounds absolutely terrible.
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Title: Re: Retreating Glaciers in pictures
Post by Grendel on Jan 26th, 2018 at 8:00pm
The_Barnacle wrote on Jan 26th, 2018 at 10:38am: Grendel wrote on Jan 24th, 2018 at 6:55am:Official verification Greenies...
Quote:Space-based Observations of the Earth
Earth is a Dynamic Planet
Change is perhaps the only constant in our planet's history. Since the Earth's beginning about 4.5 billion years ago, natural climate and environmental conditions on our planet have been in constant flux. Solar variability, volcanic eruptions, meteor impacts, the emergence of life, the formation of an atmosphere rich in oxygen and greenhouse gases, changing ocean circulation patterns, wildfires—over the millennia these and other geological forces shaped an intricately intertwined global climate system that we are only just beginning to understand. |
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Exactly, thats why 7 billion people pumping CO2 into the atmosphere is also going to have an effect on the planet |
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For starters there are not 7billion people pumping CO2 into the atmosphere unless you are referring to human respiration which BTW is a completely Natural Phenomenon.
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Title: Re: Retreating Glaciers in pictures
Post by The Mechanic on Jan 27th, 2018 at 6:32am
Hi Barney...
I thought you may like to watch this...
he talks about whats happening in the world right now and how the sun controls the climate and that of what to expect in the future.. also in regards to glaciers/glacial period..
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lCRY_c58YaQ&feature=em-uploademail
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Title: Re: Retreating Glaciers in pictures
Post by The_Barnacle on Jan 27th, 2018 at 10:03am
President Elect, The Mechanic wrote on Jan 27th, 2018 at 6:32am:Hi Barney... I thought you may like to watch this... |
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You were wrong. I don't waste my time watching dodgy you tube videos. If you have a point to make - then just make it. President Elect, The Mechanic wrote on Jan 27th, 2018 at 6:32am:how the sun controls the climate |
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Wrong again. It is ONE factor that affects the climate. By far the most important factor is the atmosphere. You want Proof? The average daytime temperature on Mercury is 427 degrees C The average daytime temperature on Venus is 467 degrees C So Venus is hotter than Mercury despite being twice as far from the sun. This is due to Venus's thick atmosphere. Do you want to know what Venus's atmosphere is made of? 96% CO2
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Title: Re: Retreating Glaciers in pictures
Post by The Mechanic on Jan 27th, 2018 at 11:16am
There are none so blind as those who will not see...
I can see I’m wasting my time here...
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Title: Re: Retreating Glaciers in pictures
Post by The_Barnacle on Jan 27th, 2018 at 11:19am
President Elect, The Mechanic wrote on Jan 27th, 2018 at 11:16am:There are none so blind as those who will not see...
I can see I’m wasting my time here... |
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For once I agree with you ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
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Title: Re: Retreating Glaciers in pictures
Post by John_Taverner on Jan 27th, 2018 at 11:19am
President Elect, The Mechanic wrote on Jan 27th, 2018 at 11:16am:There are none so blind as those who will not see...
I can see I’m wasting my time here... |
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Probably. But if you have so little Scientific knowledge, why are you so dogmatic about this issue?
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Title: Re: Retreating Glaciers in pictures
Post by lee on Jan 27th, 2018 at 12:20pm
The_Barnacle wrote on Jan 27th, 2018 at 10:03am:So Venus is hotter than Mercury despite being twice as far from the sun. This is due to Venus's thick atmosphere. Do you want to know what Venus's atmosphere is made of? 96% CO2 |
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Now tell us how air pressure affects temperature. And the atmospheric pressure on Venus. ;)
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Title: Re: Retreating Glaciers in pictures
Post by The Mechanic on Jan 27th, 2018 at 2:01pm
John_Taverner wrote on Jan 27th, 2018 at 11:19am: President Elect, The Mechanic wrote on Jan 27th, 2018 at 11:16am:There are none so blind as those who will not see...
I can see I’m wasting my time here... |
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Probably. But if you have so little Scientific knowledge, why are you so dogmatic about this issue? |
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oh hell sorry.. I didn't realise that you were a scientist Taverner... you are Arn't you?? :-/ like many others.. we may not per scientist but we are not idiots either.. what we present is factual information gathered by scientists.. if you choose not to look at the facts then YOU are the one exposed as the denialist.. you deny the facts.. you are deliberately being ignorant due to your beliefs in the climate church..
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Title: Re: Retreating Glaciers in pictures
Post by The_Barnacle on Jan 28th, 2018 at 9:52am
This is the Waggonwaybreen glacier in Svalbard Norway. A group of islands within the arctic circle http://i68.tinypic.com/29ly80z.jpg
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Title: Re: Retreating Glaciers in pictures
Post by lee on Jan 28th, 2018 at 10:34am
"For the last 4000-5000 years Earth has been subjected to a marked cooling, which gradually has created better conditions for the growth of glaciers and permafrost. 5000 years ago the average temperature in Svalbard was around 4 degrees warmer than today. Then one would probably have to climb 200-400m up in the mountains in order to find permafrost, and many of today’s glaciers would not have existed. The largest glaciers would have existed in a much-reduced size. Many of Svalbard’s glaciers, therefore, are less than 3000-4000 years old." http://svalbardmuseum.no/en/natur/isbreer/Advance/ retreat.
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Title: Re: Retreating Glaciers in pictures
Post by The_Barnacle on Jan 28th, 2018 at 10:39am
President Elect, The Mechanic wrote on Jan 27th, 2018 at 2:01pm: John_Taverner wrote on Jan 27th, 2018 at 11:19am: President Elect, The Mechanic wrote on Jan 27th, 2018 at 11:16am:There are none so blind as those who will not see...
I can see I’m wasting my time here... |
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Probably. But if you have so little Scientific knowledge, why are you so dogmatic about this issue? |
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oh hell sorry.. I didn't realise that you were a scientist Taverner...
you are Arn't you?? :-/
like many others.. we may not per scientist but we are not idiots either.. |
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We are not scientists but we have scientific knowledge and understand scientific principles. You clearly do not.
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Title: Re: Retreating Glaciers in pictures
Post by lee on Jan 28th, 2018 at 10:43am
The_Barnacle wrote on Jan 28th, 2018 at 10:39am:We are not scientists but we have scientific knowledge and understand scientific principles. |
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Actually John says he is a scientist. That makes his claim that 2017 the hottest year without an El Nino just natural variation,when I showed it was cooler than 1999 a non l Nino year, a bit strange. But perhaps he wasn't following closely.
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Title: Re: Retreating Glaciers in pictures
Post by Sir Bobby on Jan 28th, 2018 at 10:48am
I haven't been following glaciers very closely.
It's interesting that in this video the author debunks the idea that the there is now less ice in the: North Pole, the South Pole & in Greenland. He's got graphs to prove it.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tYw6YMJd-tw
Physicist Lawrence Krauss Bombs out on Climate Science
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Title: Re: Retreating Glaciers in pictures
Post by The_Barnacle on Jan 28th, 2018 at 10:51am
Bobby. wrote on Jan 28th, 2018 at 10:48am:He's got graphs to prove it. |
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;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D Scroll back through this thread and have a look at the photographic evidence from all over the world
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Title: Re: Retreating Glaciers in pictures
Post by lee on Jan 28th, 2018 at 10:53am
The_Barnacle wrote on Jan 28th, 2018 at 10:51am:Scroll back through this thread and have a look at the photographic evidence from all over the world |
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Advance/retreat. ;)
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Title: Re: Retreating Glaciers in pictures
Post by Sir Bobby on Jan 28th, 2018 at 10:54am
The_Barnacle wrote on Jan 28th, 2018 at 10:51am: Bobby. wrote on Jan 28th, 2018 at 10:48am:He's got graphs to prove it. |
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;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
Scroll back through this thread and have a look at the photographic evidence from all over the world |
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Just because a glacier has melted doesn't mean there is less overall ice. Wasn't there some evidence recently of a part of the South Pole meting but is was caused by volcanic activity? What is your point of contention?
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Title: Re: Retreating Glaciers in pictures
Post by The_Barnacle on Jan 28th, 2018 at 11:06am
Bobby. wrote on Jan 28th, 2018 at 10:54am:What is your point of contention? |
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The vast majority of the worlds glaciers have retreated significantly in the past 100 years which is irrefutable evidence that the Earth is warming
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Title: Re: Retreating Glaciers in pictures
Post by Sir Bobby on Jan 28th, 2018 at 11:07am
The_Barnacle wrote on Jan 28th, 2018 at 11:06am: Bobby. wrote on Jan 28th, 2018 at 10:54am:What is your point of contention? |
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The vast majority of the worlds glaciers have retreated significantly in the past 100 years which is irrefutable evidence that the Earth is warming |
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Fair enough Barnacle - you could be right.
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Title: Re: Retreating Glaciers in pictures
Post by The_Barnacle on Jan 28th, 2018 at 11:52am
Bobby. wrote on Jan 28th, 2018 at 11:07am: The_Barnacle wrote on Jan 28th, 2018 at 11:06am: Bobby. wrote on Jan 28th, 2018 at 10:54am:What is your point of contention? |
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The vast majority of the worlds glaciers have retreated significantly in the past 100 years which is irrefutable evidence that the Earth is warming |
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Fair enough Barnacle - you could be right. |
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And I don't use local weather reports and dodgy youtube videos like you have with your little ice age thread for the past 2 years
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Title: Re: Retreating Glaciers in pictures
Post by lee on Jan 28th, 2018 at 12:04pm
The_Barnacle wrote on Jan 28th, 2018 at 11:06am:The vast majority of the worlds glaciers have retreated significantly in the past 100 years which is irrefutable evidence that the Earth is warming |
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So vast majority, not all. Not warmed enough. Is it solely AGW?
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Title: Re: Retreating Glaciers in pictures
Post by Sir Bobby on Jan 28th, 2018 at 3:58pm
The_Barnacle wrote on Jan 28th, 2018 at 11:52am: Bobby. wrote on Jan 28th, 2018 at 11:07am: The_Barnacle wrote on Jan 28th, 2018 at 11:06am: Bobby. wrote on Jan 28th, 2018 at 10:54am:What is your point of contention? |
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The vast majority of the worlds glaciers have retreated significantly in the past 100 years which is irrefutable evidence that the Earth is warming |
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Fair enough Barnacle - you could be right. |
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And I don't use local weather reports and dodgy youtube videos like you have with your little ice age thread for the past 2 years |
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(1) it's mechanic's thread. (2) David Dubyne has sometimes had up to 20 links supporting the information in his videos. He's doing a lot more research than you. I don't support everything that David says but I respect the fact that he does a lot of research for each video. We need to start a global warming thread - present the evidence with videos & links and scientific papers. Do you want to do it? Are you prepared to put the work in like David has?
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Title: Re: Retreating Glaciers in pictures
Post by The_Barnacle on Jan 31st, 2018 at 7:57pm
Grinnell Glacier in the Glacier National Park in the USA The bottom right of the pictures features the disappearing glacier http://i66.tinypic.com/r8t24m.jpg
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Title: Re: Retreating Glaciers in pictures
Post by lee on Jan 31st, 2018 at 8:08pm
The_Barnacle wrote on Jan 31st, 2018 at 7:57pm:The bottom right of the pictures features the disappearing glacier |
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What do retreating glaciers revealing old tree stumps tell you?
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Title: Re: Retreating Glaciers in pictures
Post by The_Barnacle on Jan 31st, 2018 at 10:32pm
This is another view of Grinnel glacier from the previous page Top is 1940, bottom is 2006 http://i65.tinypic.com/2qbvzhi.jpg
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Title: Re: Retreating Glaciers in pictures
Post by The_Barnacle on Feb 3rd, 2018 at 10:30am
The Morteratsch Glacier (Romansh: Vadret da Morteratsch) is the largest glacier by area in the Bernina Range of the Bündner Alps in Switzerland. http://i65.tinypic.com/1z1ebzb.jpg
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Title: Re: Retreating Glaciers in pictures
Post by lee on Feb 3rd, 2018 at 12:21pm
Wow. What happened to that big piece of rock in the top picture?
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Title: Re: Retreating Glaciers in pictures
Post by The_Barnacle on Feb 6th, 2018 at 8:08pm
Stein Glacier, Switzerland, has retreated by 550 m (1,800 ft) between 2006 (left) and 2015 (right) http://i63.tinypic.com/2iiwtqc.jpg
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Title: Re: Retreating Glaciers in pictures
Post by lee on Feb 6th, 2018 at 8:23pm
Isn't it wonderful what weather can do? ;)
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Title: Re: Retreating Glaciers in pictures
Post by AnotherJourneyByTrain on Feb 8th, 2018 at 2:32pm
lee wrote on Feb 6th, 2018 at 8:23pm:Isn't it wonderful what weather can do? ;) |
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How do you define weather?
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Title: Re: Retreating Glaciers in pictures
Post by Bobby on Feb 8th, 2018 at 3:56pm
lee wrote on Feb 6th, 2018 at 8:23pm:Isn't it wonderful what weather can do? ;) |
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Barnacle doesn't like cheery picking of cold temperatures but he does like cherry picking of glaciers. What is of more interest is the amount of ice at the North and South poles + Greenland. They say it's been increasing.
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Title: Re: Retreating Glaciers in pictures
Post by Grendel on Feb 8th, 2018 at 7:57pm
https://pubs.usgs.gov/fs/fs-001-03/images/fig8.gif
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Title: Re: Retreating Glaciers in pictures
Post by Grendel on Feb 8th, 2018 at 8:31pm
Growing Glaciers... Quote:A recurring trick by climate hysterics is to show an old photograph of one of GNP’s glaciers next to a more recent photo of the same glacier showing a massive decrease in size. Often the pictures do not precisely specify what calendar dates the photos were taken on. This is significant because the melting season is quite short and rapid, and an image from August can be starkly different from an image from just weeks earlier.
The average date of first freeze in East Glacier, Montana is September 13th. It is only then that one can assess whether the glaciers are getting bigger or smaller than in previous years. |
| Quote:Upon our return to the Hotel after visiting the Glacier, we noticed that our brand-new photos appear to show that the Grinnell Glacier has grown slightly from the 2008 images that are displayed on the Hotel walls. There has been no reporting of this in any newspaper or broadcast that we know of. (In fact, all news coverage reports the precise opposite.) The smaller Gem Glacier—which is visible from the valley miles below—also appears to be slightly larger than it is shown in 2008 pictures on display. |
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More on ICE... https://www.iceagenow.info/category/glaciers-are-growing-around-the-world/
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Title: Re: Retreating Glaciers in pictures
Post by Grendel on Feb 8th, 2018 at 8:33pm
https://static.skepticalscience.com/images/Glacier_Observations.gif
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Title: Re: Retreating Glaciers in pictures
Post by Grendel on Feb 8th, 2018 at 8:36pm
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-1JZ3JT-mKGM/UWlayUVmNLI/AAAAAAAAAvk/BjGmdfgvVNc/s1600/Norway+glaciers.png
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Title: Re: Retreating Glaciers in pictures
Post by Grendel on Feb 8th, 2018 at 8:38pm
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Title: Re: Retreating Glaciers in pictures
Post by Grendel on Feb 8th, 2018 at 8:42pm
http://carbon-sense.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/06/sea-ice-trap.jpg
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Title: Re: Retreating Glaciers in pictures
Post by Bobby on Feb 8th, 2018 at 8:45pm
Grendel wrote on Feb 8th, 2018 at 8:38pm:Good link Grendel: Global warming ended in 1995, top climate scientist tells BBC 18 Feb 10 - (Excerpts) - The former director of the Climate Research Unit (CRU) at Britain’s University of East Anglia, admitted to the BBC last Saturday that there has been no statistically significant global warming since 1995, and that the world may have been warmer during medieval times. In the interview (http://bit.ly/bv1fec), professor Phil Jones...confessed to the following: · - There was no statistically significant global warming from 1995 to 2009. · - From January 2002 to the present, the earth has been cooling. · - The Medieval Warm Period (MWP) from 800 to 1300 A.D., did exist, a scientifically accepted fact that Jones and other climate researchers tried to discount or hide. Skeptics who have been making the same declarations for years, and were ignored, are enjoying a “We told you” moment. “They’ve finally admitted that the current warming period is similar to previous warming periods. Congratulations, we’ve known that for a long time,” says Michael Smith, a software engineer who played a key role in exposing the manipulation of global temperature data by NASA and NOAA. Dr. Phil Kotzbach, a research scientist in Colorado State University’s Department of Atmospheric Science, says the professor’s statements are not particularly surprising. Dr. Timothy Ball, a climatologist and former professor of geology at the University of Winnipeg, says Jones’ statements undermine the IPCC’s core thesis of anthropogenic global warming (AGW): “Every single country has based its energy policies on a report that one of its lead authors is now saying is false,” Ball says. Shortly after Jones’ BBC interview, Professor Peter Liss, now CRU's acting director, came to the defense of the beleaguered scientist, calling global warming skeptics “dangerous” and accusing them of “playing Russian roulette with the planet.” “If you’re on the climate skeptics’ side, you have to have really good evidence for your case, because if you’re wrong, then the consequences for all of us and all our children and whoever comes after is hugely influenced. “I don’t see that evidence. I see lots of assertion, but it’s not backed up. It’s very dangerous and like playing Russian roulette with the planet.” Robert Felix, author of "Not by Fire but by Ice" and host of Ice Age Now, denounced Liss’ attack, citing it as further proof that “the entire CRU institution seems to be infected” with an intractable “we’re always right” mindset that is hostile towards anyone or anything that challenges official dogma. “Professor Liss’ statement is incredible. He says we have to back our assertions. It’s time for them to back up theirs,” he demanded. http://www.examiner.com/x-32936-Seminole-County-Environmental-News-Examiner~y2010m2d18-Global-warming-ended-in-1995-top-climate-scientist-tells-BBCThanks to Kirk Myers for this link
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Title: Re: Retreating Glaciers in pictures
Post by Grendel on Feb 9th, 2018 at 7:52pm
I think you should delete all that red crap bobby and this post as well.
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Title: Re: Retreating Glaciers in pictures
Post by Bobby on Feb 9th, 2018 at 10:11pm
Grendel wrote on Feb 9th, 2018 at 7:52pm:I think you should delete all that red crap bobby and this post as well. |
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I did delete the last 2 posts of garbage. If DRAH wants to post something sensible he can.
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Title: Re: Retreating Glaciers in pictures
Post by Grendel on Feb 9th, 2018 at 10:24pm
;)
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Title: Re: Retreating Glaciers in pictures
Post by Unforgiven on Feb 9th, 2018 at 11:28pm
The evidence is that glaciers are retreating, even in Norway. Bobby, Grendel, and the Mechanic are not just wrong but also wrong-headed. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Retreat_of_glaciers_since_1850Quote:Since 1980, a significant global warming has led to glacier retreat becoming increasingly rapid and ubiquitous, so much so that some glaciers have disappeared altogether, and the existences of many of the remaining glaciers are threatened...
The retreat of mountain glaciers, notably in western North America, Asia, the Alps and tropical and subtropical regions of South America, Africa and Indonesia, provide evidence for the rise in global temperatures since the late 19th century.[4][5] The acceleration of the rate of retreat since 1995 of key outlet glaciers of the Greenland and West Antarctic ice sheets may foreshadow a rise in sea level, which would affect coastal regions.
Global glacial mass balance in the last fifty years, reported to the WGMS and NSIDC. The increasing downward trend in the late 1980s is symptomatic of the increased rate and number of retreating glaciers.
Main article: Glacier mass balance The mass balance, or difference between accumulation and ablation (melting and sublimation), of a glacier is crucial to its survival.[6] Climate change may cause variations in both temperature and snowfall, resulting in changes in mass balance. A glacier with a sustained negative balance loses equilibrium and retreats. A sustained positive balance is also out of equilibrium and will advance to reestablish equilibrium. Currently, nearly all glaciers have a negative mass balance and are retreating.[7]
Glacier retreat results in the loss of the low-elevation region of the glacier. Since higher elevations are cooler, the disappearance of the lowest portion decreases overall ablation, thereby increasing mass balance and potentially reestablishing equilibrium. If the mass balance of a significant portion of the accumulation zone of the glacier is negative, it is in disequilibrium with the climate and will melt away without a colder climate and or an increase in frozen precipitation.[8][9]
Methods for measuring retreat include staking terminus location, global positioning mapping, aerial mapping and laser altimetry.[8][10] The key symptom of disequilibrium is thinning along the entire length of the glacier. This indicates a diminishment of the accumulation zone. The result is marginal recession of the accumulation zone margin, not just of the terminus. In effect, the glacier no longer has a consistent accumulation zone and without an accumulation zone cannot survive.[9][11] For example, Easton Glacier in Washington state, U.S. will likely shrink to half its size but at a slowing rate of reduction and stabilize at that size despite the warmer temperature over a few decades. However, the Grinnell Glacier in Montana, U.S. will shrink at an increasing rate until it disappears. The difference is that the upper section of Easton Glacier remains healthy and snow-covered, while even the upper section of the Grinnell Glacier is bare, is melting and has thinned. Small glaciers with minimal altitude range are most likely to fall into disequilibrium with the climate.[9]
Middle latitude glaciers ... As with examples located in the tropical zone, virtually all the glaciers in the mid-latitudes are in a state of negative mass balance and are retreating.[10]
... In Norway, glacier studies have been performed since the early 19th century, with systematic surveys undertaken regularly since the 1990s. Inland glaciers have had a generally negative mass balance, whereby during the 1990s, maritime glaciers showed a positive mass balance and advanced.[25] The maritime advances have been attributed to heavy snowfall in the period 1989-1995.[25] However, reduced snowfall since has caused most Norwegian glaciers to retreat significantly.[25] A survey of 31 Norwegian glaciers in 2010 indicated that 27 were in retreat, one had no change and three advanced.[26] Similarly, in 2013, of 33 Norwegian glaciers surveyed, 26 were retreating, four showed no change and three advanced.[26]
Engabreen Glacier in Norway extended to within 7 m (23 ft) above sea level in 2014, the lowest altitude of any glacier in Europe.
Engabreen Glacier in Norway, an outlet glacier of the Svartisen ice cap, had several advances in the 20th century, though it retreated 200 m (660 ft) between 1999 and 2014.[27] Brenndalsbreen glacier retreated 56 m (184 ft) between the years 2000 and 2014, while the Rembesdalsskåka glacier, which has retreated 2 km (1.2 mi) since the end of the Little Ice Age, retreated 200 m (660 ft) between 1997–2007.[28] The Briksdalsbreen glacier retreated 230 m (750 ft) between 1996 and 2004 with 130 m (430 ft) of that in the last year of that study; the greatest annual retreat recorded on that glacier since studies began there in 1900.[29] This figure was exceeded in 2006 with five glaciers retreating over 100 m (330 ft) from the fall of 2005 to the fall of 2006. Four outlets from the Jostedalsbreen ice cap, the largest body of ice in continental Europe, Kjenndalsbreen, Brenndalsbreen, Briksdalsbreen and Bergsetbreen had a frontal retreat of more than 100 m (330 ft).[30] Overall, from 1999 to 2005, Briksdalsbreen retreated 336 metres (1,102 ft).[30] Gråfjellsbrea, an outlet glacier of the Folgefonna ice cap, had a retreat of almost 100 m (330 ft).[30] ... |
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Title: Re: Retreating Glaciers in pictures
Post by Unforgiven on Feb 9th, 2018 at 11:31pm
Glacier mass balance loss is increasing sharply and accelerating: https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/e/e5/Glacier_Mass_Balance.png
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Title: Re: Retreating Glaciers in pictures
Post by The_Barnacle on Feb 10th, 2018 at 9:55am
Dear o dear Grendel. It might be a good idea if you actually read your article about Norway Glacier advance before posting it (or perhaps you did but didn't understand it) Quote:Global warming means not only that more ice melts in the summer, but also that more moisture is sucked up from the oceans and falls as rain or snow. Some parts of Norway have had record summer temperatures - and record snowfalls
Norway's western glaciers are among the best monitored in the world. They have tended to shrink since the 18th century but have begun to grow again in the last year or two |
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So the very recent advancing of a few of Norway's glaciers, as confirmed by your own posted article, is due to increased snowfall. Nowhere have I claimed that every glacier in the world is retreating, but the vast majority are, and the few that arn't are advancing due to local conditions. You do realise that in very cold areas like Norway global warming will produce more snow because the warming temperature is still below freezing. I especially like how you have highlighted the word "ice" in the article while remaining completely ignorant about the context it is being used in. ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
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Title: Re: Retreating Glaciers in pictures
Post by The_Barnacle on Feb 10th, 2018 at 10:47am
The Portage Glacier, in south-central Alaska, is viewed by thousands of visitors annually who come to the U.S. Forest Service Begich, Boggs Visitor Center located on the road system between Anchorage and Whittier, Alaska. During the past century, the terminus of the glacier has retreated nearly 5 kilometers to its present location. Left photo 1914, right photo 2004 http://i66.tinypic.com/24yakbo.jpg
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Title: Re: Retreating Glaciers in pictures
Post by Bobby on Feb 10th, 2018 at 11:32am
Barnacle doesn't like cheery picking of cold temperatures but he does like cherry picking of glaciers.
What is of more interest is the amount of ice at the North and South poles + Greenland. They say it's been increasing.
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Title: Re: Retreating Glaciers in pictures
Post by The_Barnacle on Feb 10th, 2018 at 11:47am
Bobby. wrote on Feb 10th, 2018 at 11:32am:Barnacle doesn't like cheery picking of cold temperatures but he does like cherry picking of glaciers. |
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I've posted 11 pages of retreating glaciers and Grendel can only find a couple of glaciers that arn't retreating and you accuse ME of cherry picking? Bobby. wrote on Feb 10th, 2018 at 11:32am:What is of more interest is the amount of ice at the North and South poles + Greenland. They say it's been increasing. |
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link?
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Title: Re: Retreating Glaciers in pictures
Post by Bobby on Feb 10th, 2018 at 12:15pm
https://www.nasa.gov/feature/goddard/nasa-study-mass-gains-of-antarctic-ice-sheet-greater-than-lossesOct. 31, 2015 NASA Study: Mass Gains of Antarctic Ice Sheet Greater than LossesAntarctic Peninsula A new NASA study says that Antarctica is overall accumulating ice. Still, areas of the continent, like the Antarctic Peninsula photographed above, have increased their mass loss in the last decades. Credits: NASA's Operation IceBridge Map showing the rates of mass changes from ICESat 2003-2008 over Antarctica. Map showing the rates of mass changes from ICESat 2003-2008 over Antarctica. Sums are for all of Antarctica: East Antarctica (EA, 2-17); interior West Antarctica (WA2, 1, 18, 19, and 23); coastal West Antarctica (WA1, 20-21); and the Antarctic Peninsula (24-27). A gigaton (Gt) corresponds to a billion metric tons, or 1.1 billion U.S. tons. Credits: Jay Zwally/ Journal of Glaciology A new NASA study says that an increase in Antarctic snow accumulation that began 10,000 years ago is currently adding enough ice to the continent to outweigh the increased losses from its thinning glaciers.
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Title: Re: Retreating Glaciers in pictures
Post by Unforgiven on Feb 10th, 2018 at 6:16pm
Bobby. wrote on Feb 10th, 2018 at 11:32am:Barnacle doesn't like cheery picking of cold temperatures but he does like cherry picking of glaciers.
What is of more interest is the amount of ice at the North and South poles + Greenland. They say it's been increasing. |
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NASA disagrees with Bobby to the amount of minus 303 Giga Ton per year and accelerating by 31 Giga Ton per year. Are you telling lies Bobby? https://www.nasa.gov/feature/goddard/land-facing-southwest-greenland-ice-sheet-movement-decreasingQuote:... The Greenland Ice Sheet is the second largest mass of ice on Earth, containing enough water that if it all melted, ocean levels would rise by about 20 feet. Greenland has shed on average 303 gigatons of ice per year since 2004, and with every successive year the loss has increased by 31 gigatons. (Each gigaton equals one billion metric tons.) Recent estimates suggest that surface melting is responsible for 60 percent of Greenland’s ice sheet losses, while the remainder is caused by ice sheet discharge into the ocean.
Thomas Neumann, a cryospheric scientist at NASA’s Goddard Space Flight Center in Greenbelt, Maryland who was not involved in the study, said the finding highlights the importance of having access to a long time series of remote sensing data, such as the Landsat record. “By analyzing velocity estimates extracted from 30 years of Landsat data, this study highlights the complex, and sometimes counterintuitive, interplay between surface meltwater and ice motion.” ... |
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Title: Re: Retreating Glaciers in pictures
Post by lee on Feb 10th, 2018 at 9:53pm
Unforgiven wrote on Feb 10th, 2018 at 6:16pm:NASA disagrees with Bobby to the amount of minus 303 Giga Ton per year and accelerating by 31 Giga Ton per year. |
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Oooh. 2015? "According to an end of season summary from Greenland experts with the Danish Meteorological Institute, 2017 may turn out differently. According to the Institute’s preliminary estimates, about 544 billion tons more snow fell on the ice sheet between September 2016 and August 2017 than melted away. In an average year (1981-2010), net snow accumulation is closer to 368 billion tons." "One hundred seventy-six billion tons of extra snow would be great news if that were the whole story of the ice sheet’s health. But as the Institute explains in an article on their Polar Portal Website, Greenland also loses nearly 500 billion tons of ice each year on average through its glaciers, either by icebergs calving into the ocean or through submarine melting of the glaciers where they reach the ocean." https://www.climate.gov/news-features/understanding-climate/greenland-ice-sheets-2017-weigh-suggests-small-increase-ice-mass"Overall, the end of year SMB is high when compared to the 2000s and the 1990s, and more akin to what we saw in the mid-1980s. The SMB for 2016-17 is the fifth highest in the 37-year record – the highest was the 619bn tonnes gained in 1995-96." https://www.carbonbrief.org/guest-post-greenland-ice-sheet-2017
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Title: Re: Retreating Glaciers in pictures
Post by Unforgiven on Feb 10th, 2018 at 11:22pm
From denizen lee's own source: https://www.carbonbrief.org/guest-post-greenland-ice-sheet-2017Quote:... Overall, initial figures suggest that Greenland may have gained a small amount of ice over the 2016-17 year. If confirmed, this would mark a one-year blip in the long-term trend of year-on-year declines over recent decades.
The unusual year is mainly down to heavy snow and rain in winter and a relatively short and intermittent summer melt season. And the source of that bumper winter snowfall was the remnants of a hurricane that wreaked widespread damage 4,500km away in Bermuda... |
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Title: Re: Retreating Glaciers in pictures
Post by The_Barnacle on Feb 11th, 2018 at 11:12am
Unforgiven wrote on Feb 10th, 2018 at 11:22pm:From denizen lee's own source:
https://www.carbonbrief.org/guest-post-greenland-ice-sheet-2017
Quote:... Overall, initial figures suggest that Greenland may have gained a small amount of ice over the 2016-17 year. If confirmed, this would mark a one-year blip in the long-term trend of year-on-year declines over recent decades.
The unusual year is mainly down to heavy snow and rain in winter and a relatively short and intermittent summer melt season. And the source of that bumper winter snowfall was the remnants of a hurricane that wreaked widespread damage 4,500km away in Bermuda... |
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;D ;D ;D ;D ;D lee has yet again been shot down in flames
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Title: Re: Retreating Glaciers in pictures
Post by lee on Feb 11th, 2018 at 12:41pm
The_Barnacle wrote on Feb 11th, 2018 at 11:12am:lee has yet again been shot down in flames |
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Wrong again. The claim was merely that snow and ice increased. It did. ;) Edit: I am not into predictions; so whether it will remain a "one year blip" or become a two year blip or more is immaterial.
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Title: Re: Retreating Glaciers in pictures
Post by Grendel on Feb 11th, 2018 at 12:46pm
The_Barnacle wrote on Feb 10th, 2018 at 9:55am:Dear o dear Grendel.
It might be a good idea if you actually read your article about Norway Glacier advance before posting it (or perhaps you did but didn't understand it)
Quote:Global warming means not only that more ice melts in the summer, but also that more moisture is sucked up from the oceans and falls as rain or snow. Some parts of Norway have had record summer temperatures - and record snowfalls
Norway's western glaciers are among the best monitored in the world. They have tended to shrink since the 18th century but have begun to grow again in the last year or two |
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So the very recent advancing of a few of Norway's glaciers, as confirmed by your own posted article, is due to increased snowfall.
Nowhere have I claimed that every glacier in the world is retreating, but the vast majority are, and the few that arn't are advancing due to local conditions.
You do realise that in very cold areas like Norway global warming will produce more snow because the warming temperature is still below freezing.
I especially like how you have highlighted the word "ice" in the article while remaining completely ignorant about the context it is being used in.
;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D |
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OH DEAR OH DEAR I DID READ IT... if you read more about glaciers you'd know they advance and retreat regularly..... :D :D :D :D :D
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Title: Re: Retreating Glaciers in pictures
Post by Grendel on Feb 11th, 2018 at 12:49pm
As for snowfall being caused by global warming... listen up stupid... global warmists state that we will have less precipitation until we have none... and temperatures will keep rising until there is no cooling...
The extreme argument is we will turn the Earth into a version of Venus...
You cant have your cake and eat it to barny Boy.
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Title: Re: Retreating Glaciers in pictures
Post by The_Barnacle on Feb 11th, 2018 at 1:06pm
Grendel wrote on Feb 11th, 2018 at 12:49pm:As for snowfall being caused by global warming... listen up stupid... global warmists state that we will have less precipitation until we have none... and temperatures will keep rising until there is no cooling...
The extreme argument is we will turn the Earth into a version of Venus...
You cant have your cake and eat it to barny Boy. |
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Strawman argument Grendel. No one actually said what you are claiming. You are just making stuff up. I stand by the fact that the vast majority of the world glaciers are retreating.
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Title: Re: Retreating Glaciers in pictures
Post by The_Barnacle on Feb 11th, 2018 at 1:11pm
Grendel wrote on Feb 11th, 2018 at 12:46pm:if you read more about glaciers you'd know they advance and retreat regularly..... :D :D :D :D :D |
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Well then why have the vast majority of the worlds glaciers been retreating for over 100 years? Here are some more pictures of Portage glacier in Alaska http://i63.tinypic.com/168bj39.jpg
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Title: Re: Retreating Glaciers in pictures
Post by lee on Feb 11th, 2018 at 1:21pm
The_Barnacle wrote on Feb 11th, 2018 at 1:06pm: Grendel wrote on Feb 11th, 2018 at 12:49pm:As for snowfall being caused by global warming... listen up stupid... global warmists state that we will have less precipitation until we have none... and temperatures will keep rising until there is no cooling...
The extreme argument is we will turn the Earth into a version of Venus...
You cant have your cake and eat it to barny Boy. |
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Strawman argument Grendel. No one actually said what you are claiming. You are just making stuff up.
I stand by the fact that the vast majority of the world glaciers are retreating. |
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"Earth could turn into a hothouse planet like Venus, with boiling oceans and acid rain, if humans don't curb irreversible climate change, physicist Stephen Hawking claimed in a recent interview." https://www.livescience.com/59693-could-earth-turn-into-venus.html
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Title: Re: Retreating Glaciers in pictures
Post by AnotherJourneyByTrain on Feb 11th, 2018 at 2:21pm
But most climate experts say that scenario is a dramatic and implausible exaggeration: Relative to Venus, planet Earth is much farther from the sun and given its chemical makeup will never have such a thick carbon dioxide atmosphere, so it could not likely reach temperatures of 482 degrees Fahrenheit (250 degrees C) that Hawking described in the interview, they say.
<<
Lee why did you miss the next paragraph? Was it on purpose?
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Title: Re: Retreating Glaciers in pictures
Post by lee on Feb 11th, 2018 at 2:29pm
TheFunPolice wrote on Feb 11th, 2018 at 2:21pm:Lee why did you miss the next paragraph? Was it on purpose? |
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The claim by Barny was "No one actually said what you are claiming." Clearly Hawking did. Did you not understand that? Now seeing as Hawking is something of a poster child for AGW, are you saying his prognostications are not relevant when they disagree with "most climate experts"? Of course it also means then, by corollary, that some "climate experts" agree with him. ;)
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Title: Re: Retreating Glaciers in pictures
Post by AnotherJourneyByTrain on Feb 11th, 2018 at 2:37pm
lee wrote on Feb 11th, 2018 at 2:29pm: TheFunPolice wrote on Feb 11th, 2018 at 2:21pm:Lee why did you miss the next paragraph? Was it on purpose? |
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The claim by Barny was "No one actually said what you are claiming."
Clearly Hawking did. Did you not understand that?
Now seeing as Hawking is something of a poster child for AGW, are you saying his prognostications are not relevant when they disagree with "most climate experts"?
Of course it also means then, by corollary, that some "climate experts" agree with him. ;) |
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Yeh, like you know what corollary mean... ;D
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Title: Re: Retreating Glaciers in pictures
Post by lee on Feb 11th, 2018 at 3:01pm
TheFunPolice wrote on Feb 11th, 2018 at 2:37pm:Yeh, like you know what corollary mean. |
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Yeh, Like that was supposed to be a good comeback? like? ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
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Title: Re: Retreating Glaciers in pictures
Post by AnotherJourneyByTrain on Feb 11th, 2018 at 3:02pm
lee wrote on Feb 11th, 2018 at 3:01pm: TheFunPolice wrote on Feb 11th, 2018 at 2:37pm:Yeh, like you know what corollary mean. |
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Yeh, Like that was supposed to be a good comeback? like? ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D |
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like like like like : do you honestly get paid for that? ::)
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Title: Re: Retreating Glaciers in pictures
Post by Grendel on Feb 11th, 2018 at 3:22pm
The_Barnacle wrote on Feb 11th, 2018 at 1:06pm: Grendel wrote on Feb 11th, 2018 at 12:49pm:As for snowfall being caused by global warming... listen up stupid... global warmists state that we will have less precipitation until we have none... and temperatures will keep rising until there is no cooling...
The extreme argument is we will turn the Earth into a version of Venus...
You cant have your cake and eat it to barny Boy. |
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Strawman argument Grendel. No one actually said what you are claiming. You are just making stuff up.
I stand by the fact that the vast majority of the world glaciers are retreating. |
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Nope.... i don't use 'em people like you do. You saying you don't even know what YOU true believers believe? ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D facts are some are some aren't barny. That's the truth... you only tell half truths and half of that is based on ignorance as well... :D :D :D :D :D Run along now with your ad hom and lies unless you can stand to hear and speak the truth. Stop wasting everyone's time. ::) ::) ::) ::) ::)
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Title: Re: Retreating Glaciers in pictures
Post by Bobby on Feb 11th, 2018 at 8:03pm
Off topic posts have been deleted.
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Title: Re: Retreating Glaciers in pictures
Post by The_Barnacle on Feb 12th, 2018 at 10:45am
Grendel wrote on Feb 11th, 2018 at 3:22pm:Nope.... i don't use 'em people like you do. You saying you don't even know what YOU true believers believe? ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
facts are some are some aren't barny. That's the truth... you only tell half truths and half of that is based on ignorance as well... :D :D :D :D :D Run along now with your ad hom and lies unless you can stand to hear and speak the truth. Stop wasting everyone's time. ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) |
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Facts are that a vast majority of the worlds glaciers are retreating and only a small number are advancing due to local conditions.To say that "some are and some arn't" is a complete distortion of the facts. Something that the deniers are always doing. Breashears, who has reached the summit of Mt Everest five times, writes: Trekking in Tibet, not far from the northern slope of Mount Everest, I carried with me a black-and-white photograph taken by the great English mountaineer, George L. Mallory, in 1921. It showed the ice-encrusted north face of Everest and, below it, the great river of ice known as the Main Rongbuk Glacier, flowing in a sweeping, S-shaped curve down a broad, stony valley. Eighty-six years after Mallory took that photograph, I sat in the exact spot where he had snapped his iconic picture. Pulling out his photo, I was stunned by the changes that had swept over this region. The wide river of ice had retreated more than half a mile, leaving a field of separated ice pinnacles melting into the rocky ground. In the distance, the ice streams on Everest's flank also had shrunk, exposing more of the mountain's dark face. http://i64.tinypic.com/k1auc3.jpg
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Title: Re: Retreating Glaciers in pictures
Post by lee on Feb 12th, 2018 at 10:50am
The_Barnacle wrote on Feb 12th, 2018 at 10:45am:Facts are that a vast majority of the worlds glaciers are retreating and only a small number are advancing due to local conditions. |
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So regional warming rather than Global Warming. ;)
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Title: Re: Retreating Glaciers in pictures
Post by AnotherJourneyByTrain on Feb 12th, 2018 at 11:10pm
lee wrote on Feb 12th, 2018 at 10:50am: The_Barnacle wrote on Feb 12th, 2018 at 10:45am:Facts are that a vast majority of the worlds glaciers are retreating and only a small number are advancing due to local conditions. |
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So regional warming rather than Global Warming. ;) |
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No!
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Title: Re: Retreating Glaciers in pictures
Post by lee on Feb 13th, 2018 at 9:52am
TheFunPolice wrote on Feb 12th, 2018 at 11:10pm: lee wrote on Feb 12th, 2018 at 10:50am: The_Barnacle wrote on Feb 12th, 2018 at 10:45am:Facts are that a vast majority of the worlds glaciers are retreating and only a small number are advancing due to local conditions. |
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So regional warming rather than Global Warming. ;) |
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No! |
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So you think no warming at all? ::)
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Title: Re: Retreating Glaciers in pictures
Post by AnotherJourneyByTrain on Feb 13th, 2018 at 1:54pm
Lee said what? :o :o :o :o :o :o
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Title: Re: Retreating Glaciers in pictures
Post by lee on Feb 13th, 2018 at 2:11pm
TheFunPolice wrote on Feb 13th, 2018 at 1:54pm:Lee said what? :o :o :o :o :o :o |
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Nothing. I posed a question. ;) So far you haven't said anything one way or the other.
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Title: Re: Retreating Glaciers in pictures
Post by Pho Huc on Feb 14th, 2018 at 2:52am
lee wrote on Feb 12th, 2018 at 10:50am: The_Barnacle wrote on Feb 12th, 2018 at 10:45am:Facts are that a vast majority of the worlds glaciers are retreating and only a small number are advancing due to local conditions. |
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So regional warming rather than Global Warming. ;) |
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Im almost 30% positive your aware that you get localised climatic variation. I love you effort to try and obfuscate large chunks of ice melting. The ice is melting, Its getting hotter, the only scientifically credible explanation is AGW.
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Title: Re: Retreating Glaciers in pictures
Post by lee on Feb 14th, 2018 at 12:11pm
Pho Huc wrote on Feb 14th, 2018 at 2:52am:Im almost 30% positive your aware that you get localised climatic variation. |
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Oh absolutely. Natural Variation. But for it to be Global the effects must be GLOBAL. Pho Huc wrote on Feb 14th, 2018 at 2:52am:I love you effort to try and obfuscate large chunks of ice melting. |
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I'm sorry; where have I said that? Pho Huc wrote on Feb 14th, 2018 at 2:52am:The ice is melting, Its getting hotter, the only scientifically credible explanation is AGW. |
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Now you have jumped the shark. Gone from warming to AGW with no step in between. That is a belief system. The High Church of AGW. You must understand that current global temperatures are a supposition. There are large areas of the globe with NO data. What they have to do is smear it to cover a greater area. Then of course there is the claim that going back years to 1880, where the data is more sporadic, they can extrapolate how warm it was to two decimal places, including the oceans. Sorry. But that is so unbelievable it is not funny. You haven't even tried to look at normal warming. What did you expect coming out of the LIA? The IPCC claim that at least 50% of the warming since the latter half of the 20th century is manmade. They actually haven't produced anything to show it, it is merely an assertion.
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Title: Re: Retreating Glaciers in pictures
Post by The_Barnacle on Feb 14th, 2018 at 9:08pm
Athbasca Glacier, Jasper National Park, Canada top image 2005, bottom image 1919 http://i66.tinypic.com/17e39s.jpg
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Title: Re: Retreating Glaciers in pictures
Post by lee on Feb 14th, 2018 at 9:21pm
Still no date of photograph on your pictures. That must be frustrating for you. "In 1844, at the height of the Little Ice Age—a minor glacial advance recorded worldwide—the glacier was 8 km long, reaching all the way to where Icefield Centre is now. Now the glacier is nearly 2 km shorter." http://earthsciencescanada.com/geovista/PDFs_en/vistas8_agci.pdfDamn, the LIA was worldwide and it has lost about 2km in 170 years of recovery of temperatures.
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Title: Re: Retreating Glaciers in pictures
Post by Pho Huc on Feb 15th, 2018 at 12:42am
...10char
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Title: Re: Retreating Glaciers in pictures
Post by Pho Huc on Feb 15th, 2018 at 12:44am
lee wrote on Feb 14th, 2018 at 12:11pm: Pho Huc wrote on Feb 14th, 2018 at 2:52am:Im almost 30% positive your aware that you get localised climatic variation. |
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Oh absolutely. Natural Variation. But for it to be Global the effects must be GLOBAL.
Pho Huc wrote on Feb 14th, 2018 at 2:52am:I love you effort to try and obfuscate large chunks of ice melting. |
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I'm sorry; where have I said that?
Pho Huc wrote on Feb 14th, 2018 at 2:52am:The ice is melting, Its getting hotter, the only scientifically credible explanation is AGW. |
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Now you have jumped the shark. Gone from warming to AGW with no step in between. That is a belief system. The High Church of AGW.
You must understand that current global temperatures are a supposition. There are large areas of the globe with NO data. What they have to do is smear it to cover a greater area.
Then of course there is the claim that going back years to 1880, where the data is more sporadic, they can extrapolate how warm it was to two decimal places, including the oceans.
Sorry. But that is so unbelievable it is not funny.
You haven't even tried to look at normal warming. What did you expect coming out of the LIA? The IPCC claim that at least 50% of the warming since the latter half of the 20th century is manmade. They actually haven't produced anything to show it, it is merely an assertion. |
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Riddle me this. Why is the planet warming 10 times faster than at any point in the last 60 odd million years? whats your explanation for this anomaly?
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Title: Re: Retreating Glaciers in pictures
Post by Grendel on Feb 15th, 2018 at 8:28am
oh look Unsubstantiated claim... ::) ::) ::) ::) ::)
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Title: Re: Retreating Glaciers in pictures
Post by lee on Feb 15th, 2018 at 12:16pm
Pho Huc wrote on Feb 15th, 2018 at 12:44am: Why is the planet warming 10 times faster than at any point in the last 60 odd million years? |
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Have you got a reference for that? A peer-reviewed paper? http://www.realclimate.org/images/Marcott.pngPerhaps you prefer the Marcott reconstruction. Marcott interview - "Our global paleotemperature reconstruction includes a so-called “uptick” in temperatures during the 20th-century. However, in the paper we make the point that this particular feature is of shorter duration than the inherent smoothing in our statistical averaging procedure, and that it is based on only a few available paleo-reconstructions of the type we used. Thus, the 20th century portion of our paleotemperature stack is not statistically robust, cannot be considered representative of global temperature changes, and therefore is not the basis of any of our conclusions." http://www.realclimate.org/index.php/archives/2013/03/response-by-marcott-et-al/"The Greenland records show that climate changes have been very large, rapid, and widespread. Coolings were achieved in a series of steep ramps or steps and warmings in single steps." "In Antarctica the Byrd core from West Antarctica, and probably the Vostok and some other cores from East Antarctica, show events that are correlative to the larger millennial events of Greenland, including the Younger Dryas (6, 31). Byrd and Vostok also contain indications of events that may be correlative to nearly all of the Greenland events (31). " http://www.pnas.org/content/97/4/1331.full
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Title: Re: Retreating Glaciers in pictures
Post by UnSubRocky on Feb 16th, 2018 at 12:29am
The_Barnacle wrote on Dec 24th, 2017 at 12:09pm: http://i64.tinypic.com/4zx4ja.jpg
http://i67.tinypic.com/vf8bcj.jpg
Perhaps the most dramatic glacier withdrawal has been in the Alps, where it has occured in full view of residents, tourists and scientists. This is a 1859 etching of the Rhone glacier in the Kanton of Valais, Switzerland, when the ice filled the valley right to the tiny crossroads of Gletsch. In 2001 the glacier was nearly out of sight, 2.5 km distant and 450 M higher. (Ciceri etching courtesy Stefan Wagner, from Uber die Furka [1999, Limburg a/d/ Lahn, Germany].) |
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Perhaps urban climate could be a factor in why you see a recessive snowline at the same time of year, only 150 years apart. If the photograph is a tourist area today, perhaps having 10,000, 20,000, or 30,000 more people in the area would do something about the amount of snow in the region. The heating in houses would create a bubble of warmth in the region which keeps the snow away, or gradually keeps the snow melted a bit more than if no one lived in the region.
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Title: Re: Retreating Glaciers in pictures
Post by UnSubRocky on Feb 16th, 2018 at 3:24pm
The town of Sion has grown from 3,000 in 1850, to 35,000 in 2016. Perhaps urban heat DOES have something to do with it.
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Title: Re: Retreating Glaciers in pictures
Post by The_Barnacle on Feb 17th, 2018 at 10:26am
UnSubRocky wrote on Feb 16th, 2018 at 12:29am:Perhaps urban climate could be a factor in why you see a recessive snowline at the same time of year, only 150 years apart. If the photograph is a tourist area today, perhaps having 10,000, 20,000, or 30,000 more people in the area would do something about the amount of snow in the region. The heating in houses would create a bubble of warmth in the region which keeps the snow away, or gradually keeps the snow melted a bit more than if no one lived in the region. |
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Point #1 Glaciers are not "snow", thy don't have a "snow line". They are made of ice that doesn't melt from season to season. In fact that is how glaciers form. Snowfall that doesn't melt becomes ice. This ice becomes the glacier. Point #2 What you are describing is the Urban Heat Island effect. This is where an urban area or metropolitan area is significantly warmer than its surrounding rural areas due to human activities. The heat island effect is very local and the Rhone glacier won't be affected by this. http://i66.tinypic.com/ifrbdl.jpg
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Title: Re: Retreating Glaciers in pictures
Post by UnSubRocky on Feb 17th, 2018 at 4:52pm
My point is that in Antartica, there are places where it has never ever gotten over 0 degrees. The ice in that region is called permafrost. It would takes years of tropic temperatures for this ice to melt.
Not so much for areas like Europe. Even in places of high altitude, snow and ice can melt in an unusually warm season of summer. And if you really want to say that it is a warmer recent climate that is causing the retreating glaciers, then you really are contradicting your point about glaciers not melting.
It looks like these are photographs of two different seasons in a single place. One of summer and one of winter. The purpose of these photos is nothing more than for propaganda in the "global waffle" chicken little's war.
The number of times I see Christmas footage of New York and the 4th of July footage of New York. It's either "global warming" or "not global warming". People are just too soft towards seasonal change.
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Title: Re: Retreating Glaciers in pictures
Post by The_Barnacle on Feb 18th, 2018 at 11:16am
UnSubRocky wrote on Feb 17th, 2018 at 4:52pm:Not so much for areas like Europe. Even in places of high altitude, snow and ice can melt in an unusually warm season of summer. And if you really want to say that it is a warmer recent climate that is causing the retreating glaciers, then you really are contradicting your point about glaciers not melting.
It looks like these are photographs of two different seasons in a single place. One of summer and one of winter. The purpose of these photos is nothing more than for propaganda in the "global waffle" chicken little's war. |
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Maybe you should do a little research on glaciers before you put your foot completely in your mouth. Google will do. http://discoverykids.com/articles/how-glaciers-work/Glaciers change very little from one season to the next. They grow a little in the winter and shrink a little in the summer. When the shrinkage is lager than the growth it starts to retreat
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Title: Re: Retreating Glaciers in pictures
Post by lee on Feb 18th, 2018 at 2:56pm
The_Barnacle wrote on Feb 18th, 2018 at 11:16am:Glaciers change very little from one season to the next. They grow a little in the winter and shrink a little in the summer. When the shrinkage is lager than the growth it starts to retreat |
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Wow. Who woudda thunk?
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Title: Re: Retreating Glaciers in pictures
Post by UnSubRocky on Feb 19th, 2018 at 1:39am
I think the point being made is that the glacial retreat is due to the change of seasons. The photos featured could have been taken at different times of the year. A retreating glacier in Summer. A growing glacier in Winter.
For comparison, in Australia, there has been a contrast of rainfall. The west has shown plentiful rainfall for a region that does not get much rain. Whilst eastern Australia has had drought periods for a region that usually sees plentiful summer rain.
A region with glaciers can have a summer season where extremes can get so high that the glaciers can retreat considerably. Whilst in winter, extremes can be so low that snow could dump and then freeze on pre-existing glaciers to form a larger glacier by season's end.
Just because you want to act like a chicken little and continue with this global waffle warming bs, that does not mean that you are right.
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Title: Re: Retreating Glaciers in pictures
Post by The_Barnacle on Feb 21st, 2018 at 8:23pm
UnSubRocky wrote on Feb 19th, 2018 at 1:39am:I think the point being made is that the glacial retreat is due to the change of seasons. |
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;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D Please do some research on glaciers. It will stop you looking so foolish
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Title: Re: Retreating Glaciers in pictures
Post by The_Barnacle on Feb 21st, 2018 at 8:24pm
A glacier in Jasper NP Canada http://i65.tinypic.com/al1dl0.jpg
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Title: Re: Retreating Glaciers in pictures
Post by UnSubRocky on Feb 24th, 2018 at 11:22pm
The_Barnacle wrote on Feb 21st, 2018 at 8:23pm: UnSubRocky wrote on Feb 19th, 2018 at 1:39am:I think the point being made is that the glacial retreat is due to the change of seasons. |
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;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D Please do some research on glaciers. It will stop you looking so foolish |
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I have done enough research on the topic of urban climate and its effects on surrounds that I wonder what you are thinking. Imagine having a few thousand explore the area in 1908, and then having a few hundred thousand people walk around with various transportation and having torn up the surrounds for various reasons. I am sure you would not have as great an extent of glaciers as was seen in 1908.
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Title: Re: Retreating Glaciers in pictures
Post by AnotherJourneyByTrain on Feb 25th, 2018 at 1:45am
UnSubRocky wrote on Feb 19th, 2018 at 1:39am:I think the point being made is that the glacial retreat is due to the change of seasons. The photos featured could have been taken at different times of the year. A retreating glacier in Summer. A growing glacier in Winter.
For comparison, in Australia, there has been a contrast of rainfall. The west has shown plentiful rainfall for a region that does not get much rain. Whilst eastern Australia has had drought periods for a region that usually sees plentiful summer rain.
A region with glaciers can have a summer season where extremes can get so high that the glaciers can retreat considerably. Whilst in winter, extremes can be so low that snow could dump and then freeze on pre-existing glaciers to form a larger glacier by season's end.
Just because you want to act like a chicken little and continue with this global waffle warming bs, that does not mean that you are right. |
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Which version of chicken little are you referring to exactly? ;) ;)
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Title: Re: Retreating Glaciers in pictures
Post by The_Barnacle on Feb 25th, 2018 at 9:44am
UnSubRocky wrote on Feb 24th, 2018 at 11:22pm: The_Barnacle wrote on Feb 21st, 2018 at 8:23pm: UnSubRocky wrote on Feb 19th, 2018 at 1:39am:I think the point being made is that the glacial retreat is due to the change of seasons. |
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;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D Please do some research on glaciers. It will stop you looking so foolish |
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I have done enough research on the topic of urban climate and its effects on surrounds that I wonder what you are thinking. Imagine having a few thousand explore the area in 1908, and then having a few hundred thousand people walk around with various transportation and having torn up the surrounds for various reasons. I am sure you would not have as great an extent of glaciers as was seen in 1908. |
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Clearly you haven't. It is called the heat ISLAND effect for a reason you know. It doesn't affect the surrounding countryside. And it still doesn't explain all the other retreating glaciers which are nowhere near urban areas.
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Title: Re: Retreating Glaciers in pictures
Post by The_Barnacle on Feb 25th, 2018 at 10:00am
Lynch Glacier lies to the north and northwest of Mount Daniel, in the U.S. state of Washington. Lynch Glacier is within the Alpine Lakes Wilderness of Snoqualmie National Forest.[2] The glacier is approximately .60 mi (0.97 km) in length, .80 mi (1.29 km) in width at its widest and descends from 7,800 to 6,400 ft (2,400 to 2,000 m), where it terminates above a proglacial lake known as Pea Soup Lake. In the late 1970s, Lynch Glacier extended into Pea Soup Lake; however, repeat photography indicates the glacier has since retreated above the lake. http://i66.tinypic.com/ac4ocw.jpg
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Title: Re: Retreating Glaciers in pictures
Post by UnSubRocky on Feb 25th, 2018 at 5:10pm
The_Barnacle wrote on Feb 25th, 2018 at 9:44am:Clearly you haven't. It is called the heat ISLAND effect for a reason you know. It doesn't affect the surrounding countryside. And it still doesn't explain all the other retreating glaciers which are nowhere near urban areas. |
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An island is a relatively small land area that is surrounded by water. One of the features of an island is the way they deflect tides, currents, and can effect weather patterns. If we introduced a second Solomon Islands sized group south of the current Solomon Islands, I bet weather patterns would change in Australia. The heat island in regions that experience a lot of snow would have an effect on surrounding countryside. Going 20km north of my town in the winter, you would find that the cold is more pronounced than what you find in the town. But you would need to have considerable heat to effect that much cold. But glaciers would not affect that much by urban heat. If you can't believe that a change in seasons and a change in urban heat does effect glacial size, then what are you doing IMPLYING a rise in average global temperatures have to do with glacial size. You are painting yourself into a corner on this one. Or perhaps the paint fumes are getting to you. And, obviously, the surrounding region having people move in would change the environment by snow ploughing the area and doing all kinds of exploring and rearranging of surrounds. Chances are.... that photo with the road in the middle, probably has been ploughed every year so that the cars can get through. I would be sure that had everyone packed up and left, the lack of ploughing the area would lead to glaciers regenerate.
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Title: Re: Retreating Glaciers in pictures
Post by The_Barnacle on Feb 27th, 2018 at 9:15pm
No USR that is not what the heat island effect is
An urban heat island (UHI) is an urban area or metropolitan area that is significantly warmer than its surrounding rural areas due to human activities.
The glacier isn't in the town, it's in the surrounding area. And that's just the Rhone glacier. All the other glaciers that are retreating are nowhere near urban areas.
You really do need to do some research on glaciers and the urban heat island effect because you are just displaying your ignorance
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Title: Re: Retreating Glaciers in pictures
Post by The_Barnacle on Mar 3rd, 2018 at 10:14am
Briksdal Glacier used to be the largest glacier on the European mainland, in Norway. But due to global warming it has been reduced to a mere shadow of its former self. Once a great tourist attraction of the Scandinavian peninsula, Briksdal Glacier is now no longer available for glacier tours. As you can see from the photos the effects of global warming are undeniable and they say you can here the ice melting because of the caverns formed between the glacier and the rocks. It’s a tragedy, but, as always, nobody gives a damn and no one with some real power does anything about it. http://www.odditycentral.com/pics/visual-proof-of-global-warming.html http://i65.tinypic.com/il9a2u.jpg
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Title: Re: Retreating Glaciers in pictures
Post by lee on Mar 3rd, 2018 at 12:49pm
Why do the photos only go back 25 years? I am sure they ad cameras back then. ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
You do realise those photos are not taken from the same place, different focal points. You would need photos from the same point to show what you want to show.
Looking at the first and third photograph the glacier seems to have retreated about 20M. What time of year were they taken in each case?
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Title: Re: Retreating Glaciers in pictures
Post by The_Barnacle on Mar 4th, 2018 at 10:06am
Popov glacier in Russia http://i68.tinypic.com/iz6t7c.jpg
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Title: Re: Retreating Glaciers in pictures
Post by AnotherJourneyByTrain on Mar 5th, 2018 at 9:45am
The_Barnacle wrote on Mar 3rd, 2018 at 10:14am:Briksdal Glacier used to be the largest glacier on the European mainland, in Norway. But due to global warming it has been reduced to a mere shadow of its former self. Once a great tourist attraction of the Scandinavian peninsula, Briksdal Glacier is now no longer available for glacier tours. As you can see from the photos the effects of global warming are undeniable and they say you can here the ice melting because of the caverns formed between the glacier and the rocks. It’s a tragedy, but, as always, nobody gives a damn and no one with some real power does anything about it.
http://www.odditycentral.com/pics/visual-proof-of-global-warming.html
http://i65.tinypic.com/il9a2u.jpg |
| https://glacsweb.org/norway/panoramas/
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Title: Re: Retreating Glaciers in pictures
Post by lee on Mar 5th, 2018 at 11:01am
TheFunPolice wrote on Mar 5th, 2018 at 9:45am:https://glacsweb.org/norway/panoramas/ |
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Oooh, All since 2001 and none since 2007? Although there are some linked undated. ;D ;D ;D ;D
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Title: Re: Retreating Glaciers in pictures
Post by lee on Mar 5th, 2018 at 11:09am
About Briksdal Glacier not being available for glacier tours= "The most popular walk is the 3 km trail from the Mountain Lodge to Briksdal Glacier. You can also do the 3 Glacier Hike and see the Melkevoll and Brenndal Glaciers in addition to the Briksdal Glacier. There are also other trails for those who want a challenge." https://www.visitnorway.com/listings/briksdal-glacier/3571/
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Title: Re: Retreating Glaciers in pictures
Post by The_Barnacle on Mar 5th, 2018 at 3:32pm
Thanks for the information about the walking tracks in the region
Not sure what that has to do with organised tours though..........
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Title: Re: Retreating Glaciers in pictures
Post by lee on Mar 5th, 2018 at 4:38pm
The_Barnacle wrote on Mar 5th, 2018 at 3:32pm:Thanks for the information about the walking tracks in the region
Not sure what that has to do with organised tours though.......... |
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Thanks for that. The following link for bookings for Summer 2018 suggest they are on. https://www.norwayexcursions.com/en/day-tours/olden-toursYour link is from 2008. "From 1200 meters the glacier plunges down into the beautiful Briksdalen Valley. See the Briksdalen valley by foot or catch a ride with one of the "Trollcars" up to the glacier. " https://www.visitnorway.com/listings/briksdal-glacier/3571/
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Title: Re: Retreating Glaciers in pictures
Post by lee on Mar 5th, 2018 at 5:00pm
"Here's a (partial) list of the specific glaciers that are growing (There are many more) "Briksdalsbreen Glacier" "Norway's glaciers growing at record pace. The face of the Briksdal glacier, an off-shoot of the largest glacier in Norway and mainland Europe, is growing by an average 7.2 inches (18 cm) per day. (From the Norwegian daily Bergens Tidende.) https://www.iceagenow.com/List_of_Expanding_Glaciers.htmFrom Feb 2011 Glaciers are dynamic. Who knew?
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Title: Re: Retreating Glaciers in pictures
Post by The_Barnacle on Apr 29th, 2018 at 11:56am
lee wrote on Mar 5th, 2018 at 5:00pm:"Here's a (partial) list of the specific glaciers that are growing
(There are many more) "Briksdalsbreen Glacier"
"Norway's glaciers growing at record pace. The face of the Briksdal glacier, an off-shoot of the largest glacier in Norway and mainland Europe, is growing by an average 7.2 inches (18 cm) per day. (From the Norwegian daily Bergens Tidende.)
https://www.iceagenow.com/List_of_Expanding_Glaciers.htm
From Feb 2011
Glaciers are dynamic. Who knew? |
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;D ;D ;D ;D ;D Iceagenow.com? one of Bobby's blog sites ;D ;D ;D ;D and you have the gaul criticize us for using the Guardian or the ABC ;D ;D ;D ;D Given that there are 198,000 glaciers in the world what percentage are advancing? How long have they been advancing? You do realise that some glaciers briefly advance because of local conditions and that over the past 100 years they have still massively retreated? Of course you knew that, you aren't stupid are you ;)
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Title: Re: Retreating Glaciers in pictures
Post by The_Barnacle on Apr 29th, 2018 at 12:04pm
This indicator examines the balance between snow accumulation and melting in glaciers, and it describes how glaciers in the United States and around the world have changed over time. http://i64.tinypic.com/30nkoyp.jpgKey Points On average, glaciers worldwide have been losing mass since at least the 1970s (see Figure 1), which in turn has contributed to observed changes in sea level (see the Sea Level indicator). A longer measurement record from a smaller number of glaciers suggests that they have been shrinking since the 1940s. The rate at which glaciers are losing mass appears to have accelerated over roughly the last decade. All three U.S. benchmark glaciers have shown an overall decline in mass balance since the 1950s and 1960s and an accelerated rate of decline in recent years (see Figure 2). Year-to-year trends vary, with some glaciers gaining mass in certain years (for example, Wolverine Glacier during the 1980s), but the measurements clearly indicate a loss of glacier mass over time. Trends for the three benchmark glaciers are consistent with the retreat of glaciers observed throughout the western United States, Alaska, and other parts of the world.2 Observations of glaciers losing mass are also consistent with warming trends in U.S. and global temperatures during this time period (see the U.S. and Global Temperature indicator). https://www.epa.gov/climate-indicators/climate-change-indicators-glaciers
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Title: Re: Retreating Glaciers in pictures
Post by lee on Apr 29th, 2018 at 12:30pm
The_Barnacle wrote on Apr 29th, 2018 at 11:56am:Can you refute t? Instead of mindless babble. ;) The_Barnacle wrote on Apr 29th, 2018 at 11:56am:and you have the gaul criticize us for using the Guardian or the ABC |
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I am not a Gaul. The_Barnacle wrote on Apr 29th, 2018 at 11:56am:Given that there are 198,000 glaciers in the world what percentage are advancing? How long have they been advancing? You do realise that some glaciers briefly advance because of local conditions and that over the past 100 years they have still massively retreated? |
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From an alamists great /sarc website desmogblog- "Well, here's an AP story that ran on Tuesday July 8, 2008, documenting the recent advance of seven glaciers on California's Mount Shasta. And here's the only reference in that story to the state of glaciers around the world: Climate change is causing roughly 90% of the world's mountain glaciers to shrink, said Lonnie Thompson, a glacier expert at Ohio State University. " https://www.desmogblog.com/fake-glacier-claim-rises-againThe_Barnacle wrote on Apr 29th, 2018 at 11:56am:Of course you knew that, you aren't stupid are you |
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No, But I have my doubts about you. ;)
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Title: Re: Retreating Glaciers in pictures
Post by lee on Apr 29th, 2018 at 12:33pm
The_Barnacle wrote on Apr 29th, 2018 at 12:04pm:Year-to-year trends vary, with some glaciers gaining mass in certain years (for example, Wolverine Glacier during the 1980s), but the measurements clearly indicate a loss of glacier mass over time. |
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Well; who woudda thunk. It just shows that the time at which you start your measurements and the time you finish your measurements are critically important. ;) https://www.epa.gov/climate-indicators/climate-change-indicators-glaciersYou do understand the EPA doesn't do any actual studies? ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
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Title: Re: Retreating Glaciers in pictures
Post by The_Barnacle on Apr 29th, 2018 at 1:00pm
lee wrote on Apr 29th, 2018 at 12:33pm: The_Barnacle wrote on Apr 29th, 2018 at 12:04pm:Year-to-year trends vary, with some glaciers gaining mass in certain years (for example, Wolverine Glacier during the 1980s), but the measurements clearly indicate a loss of glacier mass over time. |
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Well; who woudda thunk. It just shows that the time at which you start your measurements and the time you finish your measurements are critically important. ;) |
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Thats not actually my quote. Thats a quote from the study
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Title: Re: Retreating Glaciers in pictures
Post by lee on Apr 29th, 2018 at 4:31pm
The_Barnacle wrote on Apr 29th, 2018 at 1:00pm:Thats not actually my quote. Thats a quote from the study |
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Thank you Captain Obvious. Does it make my statement any less true? Seeing as you posted it you must agree with it.
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Title: Re: Retreating Glaciers in pictures
Post by The_Barnacle on Apr 30th, 2018 at 11:03am
http://i65.tinypic.com/52ceba.jpg http://i65.tinypic.com/rk30cl.jpgThe Trift Glacier in Switzerland Top picture shows retreat between 1948 and 2006
Bottom picture shows retreat between 2006 and 2015The Triftgletscher in the Bernese Alps of Switzerland has undergone a swift alteration in the last decade. The Swiss have been the most methodical chroniclers of glacier changes over the last century. The Swiss Glacier Commission faithfully recording the annual terminus change of approximately 100 glaciers. In 2009 81 glaciers retreated, 2 advanced and 5 were stationary. One of the retreating glaciers is the Trift, which after a period of limited retreat from 1955-1995 punctuated by a small advance, began a spectacular retreat in 1998 The retreat began to expose a new glacier lake at 5700 feet (1750 meters) at its terminus in 2000 and then as observed in photographs by Jürg Alean (Glaciers Online) the lake quickly grew to its full size from 2002 into 2003 The summer of 2003 featured remarkably high melt rates in the Swiss Alps mean losses of more than 2 meters of thickness, and no retained snowpack on two of the three glaciers examined for mass balance. and retreat of 99 of the 100 glacier examined, one was stationary. The lake is now 900 m long. By 2007 the glacier no longer was in contact with the lake, and had by 2008 retreated 180 meters from the lake margin. This is a retreat of 1100 meters since 2000. The story is similar to that of Rotmoosferner Glacier and is driven by the same melt conditions that has led to use of blankets to protect Stubai Glacier.A new suspension bridge has been built to restore access to the glacier that was lost with the rapid retreat. https://glacierchange.wordpress.com/tag/swiss-glacier-retreat/
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Title: Re: Retreating Glaciers in pictures
Post by Grendel on Apr 30th, 2018 at 2:55pm
Been over this, even the braindead must acknowledge that Glaciers advance and retreat naturally.
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Title: Re: Retreating Glaciers in pictures
Post by The_Barnacle on May 2nd, 2018 at 9:15pm
Grendel wrote on Apr 30th, 2018 at 2:55pm:Been over this, even the braindead must acknowledge that Glaciers advance and retreat naturally. |
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So then why have such a vast majority of glaciers retreated over the past 100 years?
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Title: Re: Retreating Glaciers in pictures
Post by lee on May 2nd, 2018 at 9:33pm
The_Barnacle wrote on May 2nd, 2018 at 9:15pm: Grendel wrote on Apr 30th, 2018 at 2:55pm:Been over this, even the braindead must acknowledge that Glaciers advance and retreat naturally. |
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So then why have such a vast majority of glaciers retreated over the past 100 years? |
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What don't you understand about the word "naturally"?
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Title: Re: Retreating Glaciers in pictures
Post by The_Barnacle on May 2nd, 2018 at 9:47pm
lee wrote on May 2nd, 2018 at 9:33pm: The_Barnacle wrote on May 2nd, 2018 at 9:15pm: Grendel wrote on Apr 30th, 2018 at 2:55pm:Been over this, even the braindead must acknowledge that Glaciers advance and retreat naturally. |
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So then why have such a vast majority of glaciers retreated over the past 100 years? |
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What don't you understand about the word "naturally"? |
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You clearly don't understand it
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Title: Re: Retreating Glaciers in pictures
Post by lee on May 2nd, 2018 at 10:00pm
The_Barnacle wrote on May 2nd, 2018 at 9:47pm:You clearly don't understand it |
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Sorry to disappoint. Things that affect glaciers - Precipitation - it varies naturally it is not monotonic. Air pressure - again Temperature - yep. So these three things vary naturally. And they will vary in concert, in isolation. So it is complex. Now all you have to do is determine which parameter is dominant, if one is. Which has no bearing if that is the case. There may even be others. Simply saying it is the heat is simplistic. ;)
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Title: Re: Retreating Glaciers in pictures
Post by The_Barnacle on May 2nd, 2018 at 10:14pm
lee wrote on May 2nd, 2018 at 10:00pm: The_Barnacle wrote on May 2nd, 2018 at 9:47pm:You clearly don't understand it |
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Sorry to disappoint.
Things that affect glaciers - Precipitation - it varies naturally it is not monotonic.
Air pressure - again
Temperature - yep.
So these three things vary naturally. And they will vary in concert, in isolation. So it is complex.
Now all you have to do is determine which parameter is dominant, if one is. Which has no bearing if that is the case.
There may even be others.
Simply saying it is the heat is simplistic. ;) |
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nice try lee But when basically all the worlds glaciers have retreated over the past 100 years to try and blame it on air pressure or precipitation is just ludicrous. You have no credibility lee. You are just a obfuscating troll
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Title: Re: Retreating Glaciers in pictures
Post by The_Barnacle on May 5th, 2018 at 12:04pm
http://i66.tinypic.com/235s9y.jpg http://i66.tinypic.com/1z4ao80.jpgThree north-looking photographs, all taken from about the same offshore location, about 0.5 kilometers (0.3 miles) north of Toboggan Glacier, document significant changes that have occurred during the 103 years between August 20, 1905 and August 22, 2008. An intermediate age photograph shows the glacier on September 4, 2000. The 1905 photograph shows that Toboggan Glacier was thinning and retreating and was surrounded by a large bedrock barren zone. This suggests that retreat and thinning began in the mid- to late-19th century. Minimal vegetation existed on the fiord-facing hill slopes. In 1905, the terminus appears to have thinned to about 50% of its former thickness. Note the gently dipping sediment plain adjacent to the terminus. Note the two arcuate ridges, capped by several hummocky mounds that are located on the surface of the outwash sediments. The ridges are recessional moraines, dating from the late 19th century. (USGS Photo by Sidney Paige - 731). The 2000 photograph documents that after 95 years, the glacier is still thinning and retreating. Its terminus, a thin tongue of ice, can be seen surrounded by a mass of debris. The glacier has thinned as much as 150 meters (492 feet) and retreated more than 0.5 kilometers (0.3 miles). A large accumulation of snow sits on the valley floor adjacent to where the northern-most hanging glacier tributary previously joined Toboggan Glacier. The tributary no longer makes contact, having retreated more than 0.6 kilometers (0.37 miles) up the valley wall. The former zone of barren bedrock is now covered by vegetation. (USGS photograph by Bruce. F. Molnia). The August 22, 2008 photograph documents the continuing thinning and retreat of Toboggan Glacier. The thin tongue of terminus ice that was visible 8 years earlier is gone. Both hanging glacier tributaries continue to retreat. http://www.alaska.org/detail/toboggan-glacier
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Title: Re: Retreating Glaciers in pictures
Post by Jovial Monk on May 5th, 2018 at 12:13pm
I BET the 1905 photo was taken in winter and the 2000 one at the end of summer!
Bwahahahaha the idiocy of deniers of AGW ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
Oh yeah, all those retreating glaciers are a sure sign of an ice age! :D :D :D
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Title: Re: Retreating Glaciers in pictures
Post by Grendel on May 6th, 2018 at 5:25pm
Scientific fact... glaciers advance and retreat (always have always will)
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Title: Re: Retreating Glaciers in pictures
Post by lee on May 6th, 2018 at 8:23pm
The_Barnacle wrote on May 2nd, 2018 at 10:14pm:nice try lee But when basically all the worlds glaciers have retreated over the past 100 years to try and blame it on air pressure or precipitation is just ludicrous. You have no credibility lee. You are just a obfuscating troll |
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Well, as a scientist you should publish your peer-reviewed paper showing that it is temperature only. ;) BTW - what didn't you understand about lee wrote on May 2nd, 2018 at 10:00pm:hings that affect glaciers - Precipitation - it varies naturally it is not monotonic.
Air pressure - again
Temperature - yep.
So these three things vary naturally. And they will vary in concert, in isolation. So it is complex.
Now all you have to do is determine which parameter is dominant, if one is. Which has no bearing if that is the case.
There may even be others. |
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ALL of those things affect glaciers. Not as you infer that I said only 2. FAIL
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Title: Re: Retreating Glaciers in pictures
Post by The_Barnacle on May 8th, 2018 at 11:23am
Grendel wrote on May 6th, 2018 at 5:25pm:Scientific fact... glaciers advance and retreat (always have always will) |
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A completely meaningless statement So why have the great majority of the worlds glaciers been retreating over the past 150 years?
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Title: Re: Retreating Glaciers in pictures
Post by The_Barnacle on May 8th, 2018 at 11:26am
Greenland's Jakobshavn GlacierThe end of every summer for the last several years has seen Jakobshavn’s calving front move about 600 meters (2,000 feet) farther inland than the summer before. Jakobshavn’s ongoing retreat coincides with faster rates of flow. In the summer of 2012, Jakobshavn accelerated to speeds not seen before, surging at a rate of 17 kilometers (10 miles) per year. On average, the glacier moved nearly three times faster in 2012 than it did in the mid-1990s. http://psjfactoids.blogspot.com.au/2015/09/greenlands-jakobshavn-glacier-sheds-big.html http://i66.tinypic.com/2s809iu.jpg
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Title: Re: Retreating Glaciers in pictures
Post by The_Barnacle on May 8th, 2018 at 11:37am
lee wrote on May 6th, 2018 at 8:23pm:BTW - what didn't you understand about
lee wrote on May 2nd, 2018 at 10:00pm:hings that affect glaciers - Precipitation - it varies naturally it is not monotonic.
Air pressure - again
Temperature - yep.
So these three things vary naturally. And they will vary in concert, in isolation. So it is complex.
Now all you have to do is determine which parameter is dominant, if one is. Which has no bearing if that is the case.
There may even be others. |
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ALL of those things affect glaciers. Not as you infer that I said only 2.
FAIL
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I didn't think that you were stupid enough to actually think this was a valid argument. I'll spell it out simply so you can understand. As this thread has shown, glaciers have been retreating globally for the past century or so. So the driving force must be global. Has there been a global change in air pressure over the past century? No Has there been a global fall in precipitation over the past century? No has there been a global rise in temperature over the past century? Yes Your diversionary attempt to blame air pressure or precipitation for the worlds retreating glaciers is pathetic.
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Title: Re: Retreating Glaciers in pictures
Post by lee on May 9th, 2018 at 5:04pm
The_Barnacle wrote on May 8th, 2018 at 11:37am:As this thread has shown, glaciers have been retreating globally for the past century or so. So the driving force must be global. |
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Except some are NOT retreating. Therefore it is NOT global. Therefore it must be regional. The_Barnacle wrote on May 8th, 2018 at 11:37am:Has there been a global change in air pressure over the past century? No |
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"Global warming is redrawing the isobars on weather maps. Researchers have found that changes in air pressure over the past 50 years bear the fingerprint of human influence1. This is the first report of a human effect on barometers, rather than thermometers. " https://www.nature.com/news/2003/030320/full/news030317-6.htmlThe_Barnacle wrote on May 8th, 2018 at 11:37am:Has there been a global fall in precipitation over the past century? No |
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"A new study from scientists at the University of Miami Rosenstiel School of Marine and Atmospheric Science and colleagues confirms rising levels of water vapor in the upper troposphere – a key amplifier of global warming – will intensify climate change impacts over the next decades." https://phys.org/news/2014-07-vapor-global-amplifier.html#jCpSo there is more Atmospheric water vapour. Depending on other factors it could be no rain, rain, sleet, snow. So once again you are shooting from the lip. ;) Now I'm not saying I agree with it. But peer-reviewed. ;)
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Title: Re: Retreating Glaciers in pictures
Post by Jovial Monk on May 9th, 2018 at 6:34pm
No, it is global. A very few glaciers are positioned so as to benefit from the increased precipitation AGW brings.
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Title: Re: Retreating Glaciers in pictures
Post by lee on May 9th, 2018 at 7:19pm
Jovial Monk wrote on May 9th, 2018 at 6:34pm:No, it is global. A very few glaciers are positioned so as to benefit from the increased precipitation AGW brings. |
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Earlier it was 10%. If it is not happening GLOBALLY it is not global. No matter how much you wish it.
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Title: Re: Retreating Glaciers in pictures
Post by Jovial Monk on May 9th, 2018 at 8:00pm
A few exceptions do not make glacier retreat non–global especially when those exceptions are due to an aspect of AGW—the increased precipitation.
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Title: Re: Retreating Glaciers in pictures
Post by lee on May 9th, 2018 at 8:12pm
Jovial Monk wrote on May 9th, 2018 at 8:00pm:A few exceptions do not make glacier retreat non–global especially when those exceptions are due to an aspect of AGW—the increased precipitation. |
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First you would have to link the increase to AGW positively. It could rain more which wouldn't necessarily add to glacier advance.
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Title: Re: Retreating Glaciers in pictures
Post by Jovial Monk on May 9th, 2018 at 8:23pm
Try not being stupid for a couple of posts, eh?
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Title: Re: Retreating Glaciers in pictures
Post by lee on May 9th, 2018 at 8:31pm
Jovial Monk wrote on May 9th, 2018 at 8:23pm:Try not being stupid for a couple of posts, eh? |
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Sorry. I will write it down. "I will not emulate JM"
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Title: Re: Retreating Glaciers in pictures
Post by The_Barnacle on Nov 16th, 2019 at 10:29am
lee wrote on May 9th, 2018 at 5:04pm: The_Barnacle wrote on May 8th, 2018 at 11:37am:As this thread has shown, glaciers have been retreating globally for the past century or so. So the driving force must be global. |
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Except some are NOT retreating. Therefore it is NOT global. Therefore it must be regional. |
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Wrong as usual lee The vast majority of the worlds glaciers are retreating so the driving force is global The few that are not retreating are due to well understood local factors
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Title: Re: Retreating Glaciers in pictures
Post by lee on Nov 16th, 2019 at 1:27pm
The_Barnacle wrote on Nov 16th, 2019 at 10:29am:Wrong as usual lee The vast majority of the worlds glaciers are retreating so the driving force is global The few that are not retreating are due to well understood local factors |
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So it is not GLOBAL. Global means the entire globe..
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Title: Re: Retreating Glaciers in pictures
Post by Pho Huc on Nov 16th, 2019 at 10:56pm
Lee either gets paid to run denial, or he has literally no life!
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Title: Re: Retreating Glaciers in pictures
Post by lee on Nov 17th, 2019 at 11:05am
Pho Huc wrote on Nov 16th, 2019 at 10:56pm:Lee either gets paid to run denial, or he has literally no life! |
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Poor petal trying once again to be to understand the meaning of life. It is 42 petal. ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D global - including or affecting the whole world: regional - relating to or coming from a particular part of a country or a particular part of the world: https://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/englishSo regional can cover almost the entire globe while global is the entire globe. Capiche? So r
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Title: Re: Retreating Glaciers in pictures
Post by Pho Huc on Nov 17th, 2019 at 11:58am
Just to get this post back on track from the pedantic quagmire Lee is seeking refuge in, No poo the vast majority of glaciers are retreating. You need snow to fall faster than it melts to create glaciers, that's rare now we've increased the temp, hence most glaciers getting smaller.
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Title: Re: Retreating Glaciers in pictures
Post by lee on Nov 17th, 2019 at 12:13pm
Pho Huc wrote on Nov 17th, 2019 at 11:58am:Just to get this post back on track from the pedantic quagmire Lee is seeking refuge in, No poo the vast majority of glaciers are retreating. |
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And nowhere have I said they aren't. Do try to keep up. Pho Huc wrote on Nov 17th, 2019 at 11:58am:You need snow to fall faster than it melts to create glaciers, that's rare now we've increased the temp, hence most glaciers getting smaller. |
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Really? Snow is now a rare and exciting event? ;D ;D ;D ;D "However, the warming is so far manifesting itself more in winters which are less cold than in much hotter summers. According to Dr David Viner, a senior research scientist at the climatic research unit (CRU) of the University of East Anglia,within a few years winter snowfall will become “a very rare and exciting event”." David Viner CRU East Anglia "The February 2009 Great Britain and Ireland snowfall was a prolonged period of snowfall that began on 1 February 2009. Some areas experienced their largest snowfall levels in 18 years" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/February_2009_Great_Britain_and_Ireland_snowfallUSA - "The 2016/2017 ski season gave us record-breaking snowfall totals. They called it SNOWMAGEDDON, Janu-BURIED, Febru-BURIED, Miracle March, Awesome April, May Madness, and even June & July blew everybody’s minds. Many resorts extended their seasons. Squaw Valley stayed open past the 4th of July for the first time in their history." https://snowbrains.com/top-snowfall-events-history/"Starting in October these storms have dropped a lot more snow than average over Greenland, particularly on the eastern side and in the south. This increasing mass has not gone unnoticed and we have received a number of questions about it, so here we attempt to summarise what we know and can infer about the winter 2016-2017 and what it might mean to the overall surface mass balance year 2016-2017. " http://polarportal.dk/en/news/news/heavy-snowfall-in-greenland/You do know the new meme is that global warming will increase precipitation? And winters that are below zero it will likely fall as snow? But do tell us more. ;)
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Title: Re: Retreating Glaciers in pictures
Post by Pho Huc on Nov 17th, 2019 at 12:29pm
Great!- Since we agree on that fundamental point why are most of the glaciers retreating then?
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Title: Re: Retreating Glaciers in pictures
Post by lee on Nov 17th, 2019 at 12:57pm
Pho Huc wrote on Nov 17th, 2019 at 12:29pm:Great!- Since we agree on that fundamental point why are most of the glaciers retreating then? |
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The warming since the LIA. Do you want us to go back to then again? Glaciers are dynamic. They advance, they retreat. That is why old Roman gold mines are revealed by retreating glaciers. Climate Change innit? (as Bammy once said). ;) Or perhaps you think they should remain static or only advance?
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Title: Re: Retreating Glaciers in pictures
Post by Pho Huc on Nov 17th, 2019 at 1:08pm
lee wrote on Nov 17th, 2019 at 12:57pm: Pho Huc wrote on Nov 17th, 2019 at 12:29pm:Great!- Since we agree on that fundamental point why are most of the glaciers retreating then? |
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The warming since the LIA. Do you want us to go back to then again? |
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I wonder what is causing the warming... Any theories?
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Title: Re: Retreating Glaciers in pictures
Post by Bobby. on Nov 17th, 2019 at 1:16pm
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-rzXs8fXo9E
Unsettling 150 Year Cold in the Warmest Year Ever (912)
•Nov 16, 2019
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Title: Re: Retreating Glaciers in pictures
Post by lee on Nov 17th, 2019 at 1:28pm
Pho Huc wrote on Nov 17th, 2019 at 1:08pm:I wonder what is causing the warming... Any theories? |
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Well in 65BC it could have been natural, apart from all that horsepower the Romans were using. And I see no reason not to think it is largely the same now. ;)
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Title: Re: Retreating Glaciers in pictures
Post by juliar on Nov 17th, 2019 at 2:06pm
The BalmyUncle's stuff is such childish rot that even his silly bunkum fraudulent photos have DISAPPEARED!!!!
and even the grotty Mad Munk from his GetUp! Propaganda Site is here trying to sabotage this site.
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Title: Re: Retreating Glaciers in pictures
Post by Pho Huc on Nov 17th, 2019 at 4:21pm
lee wrote on Nov 17th, 2019 at 1:28pm: Pho Huc wrote on Nov 17th, 2019 at 1:08pm:I wonder what is causing the warming... Any theories? |
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Well in 65BC it could have been natural, apart from all that horsepower the Romans were using.
And I see no reason not to think it is largely the same now. ;) |
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well, At least you've accepted that the climate is getting warmer, and that the glaciers are receding. That kind of limits your arguments against AGW to saying that the current warming is caused by historic, non-anthropogenic causes. If its a natural reoccurring forcer which is causing the current trend, why the current warming is so much faster than any previous global historic period?
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Title: Re: Retreating Glaciers in pictures
Post by lee on Nov 17th, 2019 at 4:53pm
Pho Huc wrote on Nov 17th, 2019 at 4:21pm:That kind of limits your arguments against AGW to saying that the current warming is caused by historic, non-anthropogenic causes. |
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How much is natural variation and how much CO2 induced Climate Change AGW? Pho Huc wrote on Nov 17th, 2019 at 4:21pm:If its a natural reoccurring forcer which is causing the current trend, why the current warming is so much faster than any previous global historic period? |
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Is it? Do you mean the Marcott reconstruction of the last 11,000 years? https://notrickszone.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/12/Marcott-2013-Uptick-Interview-RealClimate.jpgHow about his response to the "uptick? "Our global paleotemperature reconstruction includes a so-called “uptick” in temperatures during the 20th-century. However, in the paper we make the point that this particular feature is of shorter duration than the inherent smoothing in our statistical averaging procedure, and that it is based on only a few available paleo-reconstructions of the type we used. Thus, the 20th century portion of our paleotemperature stack is not statistically robust, cannot be considered representative of global temperature changes, and therefore is not the basis of any of our conclusions. " http://www.realclimate.org/index.php/archives/2013/03/response-by-marcott-et-al/Or perhaps you meant some other paper?
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Title: Re: Retreating Glaciers in pictures
Post by xeej on Nov 17th, 2019 at 7:22pm
The images look pretty convincing, we should be running scared. Gretta is right.
http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?action=downloadfile;file=grrr_001.jpg (77 KB | 11
)
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Title: Re: Retreating Glaciers in pictures
Post by lee on Nov 17th, 2019 at 8:03pm
Johnnie wrote on Nov 17th, 2019 at 7:22pm:The images look pretty convincing, we should be running scared. Gretta is right. |
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So now you are scared of glaciers? ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D Be afraid be very afraid. The glacier monster is coming to get you. ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
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Title: Re: Retreating Glaciers in pictures
Post by Pho Huc on Nov 17th, 2019 at 9:08pm
lee wrote on Nov 17th, 2019 at 4:53pm: Pho Huc wrote on Nov 17th, 2019 at 4:21pm:That kind of limits your arguments against AGW to saying that the current warming is caused by historic, non-anthropogenic causes. |
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How much is natural variation and how much CO2 induced Climate Change AGW?
Pho Huc wrote on Nov 17th, 2019 at 4:21pm:If its a natural reoccurring forcer which is causing the current trend, why the current warming is so much faster than any previous global historic period? |
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Is it?
Do you mean the Marcott reconstruction of the last 11,000 years?
https://notrickszone.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/12/Marcott-2013-Uptick-Interview-RealClimate.jpg
How about his response to the "uptick?
"Our global paleotemperature reconstruction includes a so-called “uptick” in temperatures during the 20th-century. However, in the paper we make the point that this particular feature is of shorter duration than the inherent smoothing in our statistical averaging procedure, and that it is based on only a few available paleo-reconstructions of the type we used. Thus, the 20th century portion of our paleotemperature stack is not statistically robust, cannot be considered representative of global temperature changes, and therefore is not the basis of any of our conclusions. "
http://www.realclimate.org/index.php/archives/2013/03/response-by-marcott-et-al/
Or perhaps you meant some other paper? |
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To the best of my knowledge there has never been in time in history when the global average temperature has increased by a whole degree in a century. This is the defining difference between current and historic climate shifts. If your aware of period of history which demonstrated the same rapidity of change im all ears.
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Title: Re: Retreating Glaciers in pictures
Post by lee on Nov 17th, 2019 at 9:26pm
Pho Huc wrote on Nov 17th, 2019 at 9:08pm:To the best of my knowledge there has never been in time in history when the global average temperature has increased by a whole degree in a century. |
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You do know proxy data is not that precise don't you? A whole degree? You do know science measures it in Kelvin? So from 286 Kelvin to 287 Kelvin is pretty damn small. Edit: Did you also know Phil Jones CRU East Anglia admitted that the Southern Hemisphere temperatures for the ocean was mostly made up. So we have a reasonable coverage of NH and poor coverage of SH up until about 1950 according to Phil and then that is merged to make an average temperature for the earth going back to the 1880's in some cases though some claim 1850's. ;) "Below is an actual e-mail conversation between the Climate Research Unit’s Phil Jones and climate scientist Tom Wigley. Phil Jones is the one who is largely responsible for making up the 1850-present temperature data for the Met Office in the UK (HadCRUT). https://notrickszone.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/01/SH-ocean-data-mostly-made-up.jpg
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Title: Re: Retreating Glaciers in pictures
Post by xeej on Nov 17th, 2019 at 9:50pm
lee wrote on Nov 17th, 2019 at 9:26pm: Pho Huc wrote on Nov 17th, 2019 at 9:08pm:To the best of my knowledge there has never been in time in history when the global average temperature has increased by a whole degree in a century. |
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You do know proxy data is not that precise don't you? A whole degree? You do know science measures it in Kelvin?
So from 286 Kelvin to 287 Kelvin is pretty damn small.
Edit: Did you also know Phil Jones CRU East Anglia admitted that the Southern Hemisphere temperatures for the ocean was mostly made up. So we have a reasonable coverage of NH and poor coverage of SH up until about 1950 according to Phil and then that is merged to make an average temperature for the earth going back to the 1880's in some cases though some claim 1850's. ;) |
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Now you are just making things up Lee,, Things aren't getting better they are getting worse.
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Title: Re: Retreating Glaciers in pictures
Post by lee on Nov 17th, 2019 at 10:03pm
Johnnie wrote on Nov 17th, 2019 at 9:50pm:Now you are just making things up Lee,, |
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No petal. You just don't want to believe. Edit: "According to Peterson and Vose (1997), in 1901 the representation of maximum/minimum instrumental temperature stations in the Southern Hemisphere (SH) up through the equatorial regions (South Asia, North Africa, Central America) was negligible. Only coastal Australia had substantial instrumental representation in the early 20th century. The rest of the temperature data for the SH and equatorial regions needed to be made up to extend “global” instrumental temperature data back to 1850." h ttps://notrickszone.com/2017/05/04/there-has-been-no-man-made-global-warming-in-the-southern-hemisphere-equatorial-regions/Johnnie wrote on Nov 17th, 2019 at 9:50pm:Things aren't getting better they are getting worse. |
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What exactly is getting worse petal? Drought - not global. The IPCC says maybe the Mediterranean Basin. Cyclones/Hurricanes? Again not according to the IPCC.
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Title: Re: Retreating Glaciers in pictures
Post by Pho Huc on Nov 17th, 2019 at 11:30pm
Proxy data is precise enough to be able to identify localized historical weather events that exceeded the global rate of change ( The younger Dryas event for example 15000 years ago). You can't say its this kind of event is undetectable if we have detected previous instances.
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Title: Re: Retreating Glaciers in pictures
Post by juliar on Nov 18th, 2019 at 7:50am
The BalmyUncle's stuff is just Greeny lying fraud.
Glaciers have melted since time began as it is the way Nature maintains the constant ocean levels to make up for evaporation.
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Title: Re: Retreating Glaciers in pictures
Post by lee on Nov 18th, 2019 at 1:47pm
Pho Huc wrote on Nov 17th, 2019 at 11:30pm:Proxy data is precise enough to be able to identify localized historical weather events that exceeded the global rate of change ( The younger Dryas event for example 15000 years ago). |
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And what is the smoothing applied to get accuracy down to 100 years? 200 years, 500 years? It is all lost in the noise. Perhaps you have a reference? Pho Huc wrote on Nov 17th, 2019 at 11:30pm:You can't say its this kind of event is undetectable if we have detected previous instances. |
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So where is the paper that detects this at 100 year resolution. ;)
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Title: Re: Retreating Glaciers in pictures
Post by juliar on Nov 18th, 2019 at 6:21pm
Greenies' "graphs" are just lying fabrications designed to fool the gullibles.
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Title: Re: Retreating Glaciers in pictures
Post by Pho Huc on Nov 22nd, 2019 at 2:23am
lee wrote on Nov 18th, 2019 at 1:47pm: Pho Huc wrote on Nov 17th, 2019 at 11:30pm:Proxy data is precise enough to be able to identify localized historical weather events that exceeded the global rate of change ( The younger Dryas event for example 15000 years ago). |
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And what is the smoothing applied to get accuracy down to 100 years? 200 years, 500 years? It is all lost in the noise.
Perhaps you have a reference?
Pho Huc wrote on Nov 17th, 2019 at 11:30pm:You can't say its this kind of event is undetectable if we have detected previous instances. |
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So where is the paper that detects this at 100 year resolution. ;) |
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I think your getting confused by your own bullshit Lee. Anyone interested knows ice cores form layers annually, you don't get accuracy down to a century, you get it down a year. Quite a thread, in a few replies you've accepted the planet is getting warmer and had your "the records aint accurate enough" go to excuse kicked out. Ouch. https://www.igsoc.org/journal/56/200/j10j201.pdf
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Title: Re: Retreating Glaciers in pictures
Post by lee on Nov 22nd, 2019 at 11:24am
Pho Huc wrote on Nov 22nd, 2019 at 2:23am:Anyone interested knows ice cores form layers annually, you don't get accuracy down to a century, you get it down a year. |
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Now that would be a first. Please show at least one paper with ice core with an annual resolution. ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D Pho Huc wrote on Nov 22nd, 2019 at 2:23am:https://www.igsoc.org/journal/56/200/j10j201.pdf |
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That article dos not mention anything specific about resolution. But Ice core measure CO2 NOT temperature.You do understand the distinction don't you? So what is this proxy data for temperature that has a resolution of less than 100 years?
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Title: Re: Retreating Glaciers in pictures
Post by Pho Huc on Nov 22nd, 2019 at 12:13pm
"ice core basics" (for people who rely on disassembly not evidence)
"Ice sheets have one particularly special property. They allow us to go back in time and to sample accumulation, air temperature and air chemistry from another time"
". High rates of snow accumulation provide excellent time resolution, and bubbles in the ice core preserve actual samples of the world’s ancient atmosphere"
http://www.antarcticglaciers.org/glaciers-and-climate/ice-cores/ice-core-basics/
Seems like your understanding of the basics is a bit lacking Lee.
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Title: Re: Retreating Glaciers in pictures
Post by Pho Huc on Nov 22nd, 2019 at 12:17pm
Its really cute how Lee demands all assertions be justified with a peer review paper with the same conclusion. Hypocrisy? naw- Its his game plan. Dissemble. Deny, refuse, make the other person prove their opinions, then retreat back to disassembly. I guess if that's your job that's what you gotta do. How sad would it be if he was just doing it for free?
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Title: Re: Retreating Glaciers in pictures
Post by lee on Nov 22nd, 2019 at 12:46pm
Pho Huc wrote on Nov 22nd, 2019 at 12:13pm:"Ice sheets have one particularly special property. They allow us to go back in time and to sample accumulation, air temperature and air chemistry from another time" |
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So people can tell the temperature at which ice froze? ;D ;D ;D ;D from your reference - " By looking at past concentrations of greenhouse gasses in layers in ice cores, scientists can calculate how modern amounts of carbon dioxide and methane compare to those of the past, and, essentially, compare past concentrations of greenhouse gasses to temperature." So that must be that there is a direct correlation between temperature and GHG's. And nowhere is it shown. There is no direct relationship in current temperatures and GHG's; otherwise with increasing CO2 global temperatures should be spiralling. Of Course CO2 lags temperature and it has a logarithmic decreasing affect. ;) Further reading - https://www.astrobio.net/climate/ice-cores-may-not-be-accurate-thermometers/Pho Huc wrote on Nov 22nd, 2019 at 12:13pm:". High rates of snow accumulation provide excellent time resolution, and bubbles in the ice core preserve actual samples of the world’s ancient atmosphere" |
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And again nothing to do with one year's resolution. Why is that? ;D ;D ;D ;D
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Title: Re: Retreating Glaciers in pictures
Post by lee on Nov 22nd, 2019 at 12:47pm
Pho Huc wrote on Nov 22nd, 2019 at 12:17pm:ts really cute how Lee demands all assertions be justified with a peer review paper with the same conclusion. |
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Which conclusion is that petal? Certainly not resolution of one year. ;D ;D ;D ;D
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Title: Re: Retreating Glaciers in pictures
Post by Pho Huc on Nov 22nd, 2019 at 6:18pm
ok. Ill start a thread about ice core accuracy to reduce your confusion on the topic and reduce your scope for disassembly.
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Title: Re: Retreating Glaciers in pictures
Post by lee on Nov 22nd, 2019 at 6:43pm
Pho Huc wrote on Nov 22nd, 2019 at 6:18pm:ok. Ill start a thread about ice core accuracy to reduce your confusion on the topic and reduce your scope for disassembly. |
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First you will need to study it. ;) Remember this? Pho Huc wrote on Nov 17th, 2019 at 9:08pm:To the best of my knowledge there has never been in time in history when the global average temperature has increased by a whole degree in a century. |
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From my reference - "In the case of the Younger Dryas, average temperatures — based on the Greenland ice — plummeted as much as 15 degrees Celsius in a few centuries, and then shot back up nearly as much (over just decades) about 1,000 years later. " So nearly as much as 15°C in a few decades and you are telling me it hasn't happened before. Or perhaps you prefer NCDC / NOAA You either believe the proxy data or you don't. "The end of the Younger Dryas, about 11,500 years ago, was particularly abrupt. In Greenland, temperatures rose 10°C (18°F) in a decade (Alley 2000)." https://www.ncdc.noaa.gov/abrupt-climate-change/The%20Younger%20Dryas10°C in a decade is faster than 1°C a century. ;)
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Title: Re: Retreating Glaciers in pictures
Post by lee on Nov 23rd, 2019 at 11:43am
According to the IPCC the climate should warm 1.5ºC - 4.5ºC per doubling.
According to the ice core data the CO2 level varied between 270ppm - 280ppm.
CO2 has a decreasing logarithmic effect on temperature.
So log 280 - log 270 = 0.016 (to three decimal places)
So 0.016*1.5 = 0.024ºC and 0.016*4.5C = 0.072ºC
So for the last 11,000 years, up until the industrial revolution, since 1AD global temperature only should have risen less than 0.1ºC. No Roman Warm Period, No MWP and no LIA.
Since the industrial revolution CO2 has risen from 280 -400ppm.
So log 400 - log 280 = 0.155. Multiply that by the maximum amount of warming per doubling 4.5ºC = 0.69ºC.
The maths just doesn't work. ;)
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Title: Re: Retreating Glaciers in pictures
Post by .JaSin. on Nov 23rd, 2019 at 1:00pm
Ice Ages cause major Droughts everywhere. The world cools, but dries out.
Global Warmings create plentiful Rains...
...except that the World has been deforested by 80% in just 300 years - so I doubt there will be much rain created.
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Title: Re: Retreating Glaciers in pictures
Post by Robot on Nov 26th, 2019 at 9:47pm
lee wrote on Nov 23rd, 2019 at 11:43am:According to the IPCC the climate should warm 1.5ºC - 4.5ºC per doubling.
According to the ice core data the CO2 level varied between 270ppm - 280ppm.
CO2 has a decreasing logarithmic effect on temperature.
So log 280 - log 270 = 0.016 (to three decimal places)
So 0.016*1.5 = 0.024ºC and 0.016*4.5C = 0.072ºC
So for the last 11,000 years, up until the industrial revolution, since 1AD global temperature only should have risen less than 0.1ºC. No Roman Warm Period, No MWP and no LIA.
Since the industrial revolution CO2 has risen from 280 -400ppm.
So log 400 - log 280 = 0.155. Multiply that by the maximum amount of warming per doubling 4.5ºC = 0.69ºC.
The maths just doesn't work. ;) |
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"It doesn't matter what the thermometer says, because I did some maths and I say it's impossible for the planet to have gotten this hot."
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Title: Re: Retreating Glaciers in pictures
Post by lee on Nov 27th, 2019 at 12:11am
Robot wrote on Nov 26th, 2019 at 9:47pm:"It doesn't matter what the thermometer says, because I did some maths and I say it's impossible for the planet to have gotten this hot." |
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That's Climate Change/ AGW TM maths for you. ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
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Title: Re: Retreating Glaciers in pictures
Post by The_Barnacle on Nov 27th, 2019 at 8:59pm
lee wrote on Nov 23rd, 2019 at 11:43am:According to the IPCC the climate should warm 1.5ºC - 4.5ºC per doubling.
According to the ice core data the CO2 level varied between 270ppm - 280ppm.
CO2 has a decreasing logarithmic effect on temperature.
So log 280 - log 270 = 0.016 (to three decimal places)
So 0.016*1.5 = 0.024ºC and 0.016*4.5C = 0.072ºC
So for the last 11,000 years, up until the industrial revolution, since 1AD global temperature only should have risen less than 0.1ºC. No Roman Warm Period, No MWP and no LIA.
Since the industrial revolution CO2 has risen from 280 -400ppm.
So log 400 - log 280 = 0.155. Multiply that by the maximum amount of warming per doubling 4.5ºC = 0.69ºC.
The maths just doesn't work. ;) |
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;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D Actually it's YOUR math that doesn't work Are you really so stupid as to think that using the "log" function on your calculator will give you exact CO 2 effect on temperature? ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D Or were you just hoping that no one would scrutinize your maths ;) You fail again lee
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Title: Re: Retreating Glaciers in pictures
Post by lee on Nov 27th, 2019 at 9:30pm
The_Barnacle wrote on Nov 27th, 2019 at 8:59pm:re you really so stupid as to think that using the "log" function on your calculator will give you exact CO2 effect on temperature? |
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It should be in the ballpark, according to Climate Seance Science TM. ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D The_Barnacle wrote on Nov 27th, 2019 at 8:59pm:Or were you just hoping that no one would scrutinize your maths |
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But you haven't scrutinised them petal. You just said they are at fault. ;) The_Barnacle wrote on Nov 27th, 2019 at 8:59pm:The failure, as usual, is yours. Even going back to papers that the maths was just too hard for you. even though they included the figures in the paper. You just couldn't extrapolate. ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
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Title: Re: Retreating Glaciers in pictures
Post by The_Barnacle on Nov 28th, 2019 at 3:38pm
lee wrote on Nov 27th, 2019 at 9:30pm:It should be in the ballpark, according to Climate Seance ScienceTM. ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D |
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You are kidding right? You try and discredit scientists at BOM and NASA by using your own completely inaccurate calculations. You don't understand how Glaciers work, you continuously show your lack of understanding of the Carbon Cycle and you expect a vastly higher standard of proof from others than you do yourself. It's no wonder that your posts are a complete farce
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Title: Re: Retreating Glaciers in pictures
Post by lee on Nov 28th, 2019 at 4:07pm
The_Barnacle wrote on Nov 28th, 2019 at 3:38pm:You try and discredit scientists at BOM and NASA by using your own completely inaccurate calculations |
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So far you haven't pointed to any "inaccuracies". ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D I used the available ice core "data" from the various papers. I used the latest ECS from the IPCC. ;) The_Barnacle wrote on Nov 28th, 2019 at 3:38pm:You don't understand how Glaciers work, you continuously show your lack of understanding of the Carbon Cycle and you expect a vastly higher standard of proof from others than you do yourself. |
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I understand how glaciers work. It snows or rains, it partially melts (if snow) and freezes to form ice. These rivers of ice then gradually go down slope. If it doesn't snow or precipitate enough glaciers retreat. If the snow or rain increases then the glaciers advance. You haven't got back to us to explain why old Roman mines have been uncovered from retreating glaciers. ;) What lack of understanding petal? You really must explain yourself better. We are all carbon based life forms. Therefore we are part of the carbon cycle. Even animals. ;) I don't expect any standard of proof from you because you can't do the maths. You therefore have to rely on your favourite prophet. Which one I wonder? James Hansen who famously said that the oceans could boil away? Michael E Mann who famously made a hockeystick by grafting thermometer records onto his one tree mometer. ;) John Cook who famously gave us the 97%, despite what the calculations actually said. He of the SKS website. :) ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D The_Barnacle wrote on Nov 28th, 2019 at 3:38pm:It's no wonder that your posts are a complete farce |
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It is a wonder that you can't do the science. But for you that is par for the course. ;)
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Title: Re: Retreating Glaciers in pictures
Post by Pho Huc on Dec 3rd, 2019 at 12:41pm
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Title: Re: Retreating Glaciers in pictures
Post by lee on Dec 10th, 2019 at 1:43pm
https://debunkhouse.files.wordpress.com/2019/12/oerlemans_1-1.png"45% of the ice loss occurred before 1900, when atmospheric was still below 300 ppm. By 1950, 75% of the ice loss had occurred. Only 25% of the ice loss has occurred since humans allegedly became the primary drivers of climate change. At the time of “The Ice Age Cometh” (1975), 90% of the ice loss had already occurred. In the extremely unlikely event that the climate models are right, 90% of the ice loss occurred before an anthropogenic fingerprint could be discerned." https://wattsupwiththat.com/2019/12/09/sea-level-rise-acceleration-jevrejeva-vs-church-white/
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Title: Re: Retreating Glaciers in pictures
Post by Pho Huc on Dec 11th, 2019 at 10:58am
https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2019/12/even-50-year-old-climate-models-correctly-predicted-global-warming
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Title: Re: Retreating Glaciers in pictures
Post by lee on Dec 11th, 2019 at 8:24pm
From your reference.
"Most of the models accurately predicted recent global surface temperatures, which have risen approximately 0.9°C since 1970. For 10 forecasts, there was no statistically significant difference between their output and historic observations, the team reports today in Geophysical Research Letters."
And yet the CO2 data and IPCC ECS of 4.5ºC (as its maximum) doesn't support that level of change. It works out at 0.44ºC at the maximum. So that is double the amount of warming according to the CO2 theory. ;)
In Wild et al 2015 they come up with an imbalance of 0.6w/m2. Yet the data that they used have uncertainties far larger than that. ;D ;D ;D ;D
From the paper -
"Seven older models missed the mark by as much as 0.1°C per decade. But the accuracy of five of those forecasts improved enough to match observations when the scientists adjusted a key input to the models: how much climate-changing pollution humans have emitted over the years."
Wow. so they adjusted the inputs and they performed better. ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
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Title: Re: Retreating Glaciers in pictures
Post by random on Dec 11th, 2019 at 8:27pm
lee wrote on Dec 10th, 2019 at 1:43pm: https://debunkhouse.files.wordpress.com/2019/12/oerlemans_1-1.png
"45% of the ice loss occurred before 1900, when atmospheric was still below 300 ppm. By 1950, 75% of the ice loss had occurred. Only 25% of the ice loss has occurred since humans allegedly became the primary drivers of climate change. At the time of “The Ice Age Cometh” (1975), 90% of the ice loss had already occurred.
In the extremely unlikely event that the climate models are right, 90% of the ice loss occurred before an anthropogenic fingerprint could be discerned."
https://wattsupwiththat.com/2019/12/09/sea-level-rise-acceleration-jevrejeva-vs-church-white/ |
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Anthony Watts Jump to navigation Jump to search {{#badges: Climate change}} Blogger Anthony Watts Willard Anthony Watts (Anthony Watts) is a blogger, weathercaster and non-scientist, paid AGW denier who runs the website wattsupwiththat.com. He does not have a university qualification and has no climate credentials other than being a radio weather announcer. His website is parodied and debunked at the website wottsupwiththat.com Watts is on the payroll of the Heartland Institute, which itself is funded by polluting industries.[1]
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Title: Re: Retreating Glaciers in pictures
Post by lee on Dec 11th, 2019 at 8:28pm
*
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Title: Re: Retreating Glaciers in pictures
Post by lee on Dec 11th, 2019 at 8:29pm
random wrote on Dec 11th, 2019 at 8:27pm:Willard Anthony Watts (Anthony Watts) is a blogger, weathercaster and non-scientist, paid AGW denier who runs the website wattsupwiththat.com. He does not have a university qualification and has no climate credentials other than being a radio weather announcer. His website is parodied and debunked at the website wottsupwiththat.com Watts is on the payroll of the Heartland Institute, which itself is funded by polluting industries.[1] |
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I see you didn't attribute your quote? Why is that? ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D Oh. Wiki. ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
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Title: Re: Retreating Glaciers in pictures
Post by random on Dec 11th, 2019 at 8:34pm
lee wrote on Dec 11th, 2019 at 8:29pm: random wrote on Dec 11th, 2019 at 8:27pm:Willard Anthony Watts (Anthony Watts) is a blogger, weathercaster and non-scientist, paid AGW denier who runs the website wattsupwiththat.com. He does not have a university qualification and has no climate credentials other than being a radio weather announcer. His website is parodied and debunked at the website wottsupwiththat.com Watts is on the payroll of the Heartland Institute, which itself is funded by polluting industries.[1] |
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I see you didn't attribute your quote? Why is that? ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D |
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Background Anthony Watts is a former television meteorologist best known as the founder and editor of the blog Watts Up With That (WUWT), which primarily publishes articles critical of mainstream climate change science. Watts joined the Heartland Institute, a think tank proudly at the forefront of promoting doubt about climate change, as a Senior Fellow in 2019. [1], [121]
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Title: Re: Retreating Glaciers in pictures
Post by lee on Dec 11th, 2019 at 8:38pm
More wiki? ;D ;D ;D ;D
Now if only you could do a job on proving what was written wrong. ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
Shooting the messenger is so much more your style, because you don't do science. ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
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Title: Re: Retreating Glaciers in pictures
Post by random on Dec 11th, 2019 at 8:42pm
Watts admits he is ”not a degreed climate scientist.” His primary credential appears to be an American Meteorological Society Seal of Approval. This does not mean that Watts is “AMS Certified” as some sources have inaccurately claimed. The AMS Seal of Approval is a discontinued credential that does not require a bachelor's or higher degree in atmospheric science or meteorology. [1], [7], [8], [9]
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