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Ahmadis sentenced to death for blasphemy (Read 44762 times)
Brian Ross
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Re: Ahmadis sentenced to death for blasphemy
Reply #210 - Nov 3rd, 2017 at 2:58pm
 
Frank wrote on Nov 2nd, 2017 at 10:40pm:
Brian Ross wrote on Nov 2nd, 2017 at 10:35pm:
freediver wrote on Nov 2nd, 2017 at 10:14pm:
The Muslims created the largest land empire that had ever existed in just over a century.


Oh, dear, here we go again.  You still refuse to accept that the Mongol Empire was larger than the Muslim Empire, FD?   Tsk, tsk. what is the point in trying to educate you if you refuse to learn?   Roll Eyes

The Mongol empire covered most of the Eurasian landmass, it stretched from Eastern Europe to the Sea of Okst.  From near the Barents Sea to the Persian Gulf.

The Muslim "Empire" (ie, of the First Caliphate) covered only the Arabian Peninsular and it's near surrounds.

Yes, yes, yes, you ARE at the head of the idiot queue, Bwian, we get it.  No need to push in with such haste and stupidity.


...

Oh, dearie, dearie, me.  Move along folks, move along.  Soren as always refuses to offer an argument, preferring to use instead ad hominem insults to attack his opponents.  Tsk, tsk, I really don't know why you bother, Soren, I really don't.   Seek help, you need it, badly.    Roll Eyes Roll Eyes
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Brian Ross
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Re: Ahmadis sentenced to death for blasphemy
Reply #211 - Nov 3rd, 2017 at 3:05pm
 
Karnal wrote on Nov 3rd, 2017 at 12:08pm:
polite_gandalf wrote on Nov 3rd, 2017 at 11:03am:
Karnal wrote on Nov 2nd, 2017 at 10:19pm:
Frank wrote on Nov 2nd, 2017 at 10:07pm:
Karnal wrote on Nov 2nd, 2017 at 9:12pm:
No worries. Kindly name the grand aggregate of ALL Muslim countries and their Western colonial equivalent - by kill.

Cheers.


Remove whatever is in your mouth, Kameeeeeel, and be precise about what you are asking. This is NOT  a public toilet where any dick might do you.  "the grand aggregate of ALL Muslim countries and their Western colonial equivalent" makes no sense. 'Muslim countries' ('countries', for that matter) are a recent inventions.  In the meantime, I can tell you that Muslim conquests of India, for example, have been up there with the bloodiest.  The whole Sikh wheeze was in response to the Muslim onslaught. The way Muslims disposed of the Armenians also gives you a glimpse into Islamic 'toleration' of diversity.

Suck on that, between cubicles, Kameeeeeel.



I most certainly will not. FD's beef with G is over that utilitarian phenomenon known as a number.

G has posted things called figures. FD tried the old no speaka da English ruse for a few pages, but you speak Danish so we know you can keep up.

Try reading the numerals, old boy. Do you take any issue with G's maths?


8 million estimated native Indians in South America. 2-13 million in Congo. Thats just for starters. How many North American Indians were wiped out? Arguably the greatest genocide in all of history, complete with small pox blankets. Africa - probably the most ravaged continent by Europeans of all - the devastating effects of which are only to evident to this very day. Oh but FD will say the diseases the Europeans spread while raping and pillaging were not deliberately spread, so its all good. No moral responsibility. He'll probably also try on the "wheres the source Gandalf" ruse for these figures, and once again "forget" that he's read and even quoted the wikipedia quotes that I posted. He'll then continue on with the "oh there's no exact total, sorry can't discuss it" copout. Apparently oblivious to the fact that undeniably entire continents were violently overtaken, and entire populations ethnically cleansed, and often annihilated - unlike in any other time in history. It is simply self-evident that European colonialism was the most disruptive, violent and devastating period for the most number of people, in the smallest period of time, in all of history. 


Well sure, but I don't buy the Smallpox blankets. Settlers had no idea of germ theory, and wouldn't be able to spread smallpox without getting it themselves.

And where would they even get the smallpox virus from?

In Australia, Aborigines in Sydney were wiped out by smallpox, not deliberately, but through contact with Europeans.



Possibly true, possibly not, Jarnal.   The incubation time for Smallpox is six weeks.  It takes three months to sail from South Africa to the east coast of Australia.  There were no reported cases of Smallpox on the first fleet.   However, what was on the First Fleet were flasks of Smallpox sores - used in inoculation against the disease.   There is a theory that some unscrupulous settlers may have used that source to spread the disease amongst Indigenous Australians.   However, there is little evidence to support that, except that it appears the first mass outbreak of the disease spread northwards up the coast from Sydney to Queensland, rather than, if as expected the exposure had occurred to say, an Indonesia Makassan trading  for Trepang, where the infection would have spread south (and west)...    Roll Eyes
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Karnal
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Re: Ahmadis sentenced to death for blasphemy
Reply #212 - Nov 3rd, 2017 at 3:24pm
 
Brian Ross wrote on Nov 3rd, 2017 at 3:05pm:
Karnal wrote on Nov 3rd, 2017 at 12:08pm:
polite_gandalf wrote on Nov 3rd, 2017 at 11:03am:
Karnal wrote on Nov 2nd, 2017 at 10:19pm:
Frank wrote on Nov 2nd, 2017 at 10:07pm:
Karnal wrote on Nov 2nd, 2017 at 9:12pm:
No worries. Kindly name the grand aggregate of ALL Muslim countries and their Western colonial equivalent - by kill.

Cheers.


Remove whatever is in your mouth, Kameeeeeel, and be precise about what you are asking. This is NOT  a public toilet where any dick might do you.  "the grand aggregate of ALL Muslim countries and their Western colonial equivalent" makes no sense. 'Muslim countries' ('countries', for that matter) are a recent inventions.  In the meantime, I can tell you that Muslim conquests of India, for example, have been up there with the bloodiest.  The whole Sikh wheeze was in response to the Muslim onslaught. The way Muslims disposed of the Armenians also gives you a glimpse into Islamic 'toleration' of diversity.

Suck on that, between cubicles, Kameeeeeel.



I most certainly will not. FD's beef with G is over that utilitarian phenomenon known as a number.

G has posted things called figures. FD tried the old no speaka da English ruse for a few pages, but you speak Danish so we know you can keep up.

Try reading the numerals, old boy. Do you take any issue with G's maths?


8 million estimated native Indians in South America. 2-13 million in Congo. Thats just for starters. How many North American Indians were wiped out? Arguably the greatest genocide in all of history, complete with small pox blankets. Africa - probably the most ravaged continent by Europeans of all - the devastating effects of which are only to evident to this very day. Oh but FD will say the diseases the Europeans spread while raping and pillaging were not deliberately spread, so its all good. No moral responsibility. He'll probably also try on the "wheres the source Gandalf" ruse for these figures, and once again "forget" that he's read and even quoted the wikipedia quotes that I posted. He'll then continue on with the "oh there's no exact total, sorry can't discuss it" copout. Apparently oblivious to the fact that undeniably entire continents were violently overtaken, and entire populations ethnically cleansed, and often annihilated - unlike in any other time in history. It is simply self-evident that European colonialism was the most disruptive, violent and devastating period for the most number of people, in the smallest period of time, in all of history. 


Well sure, but I don't buy the Smallpox blankets. Settlers had no idea of germ theory, and wouldn't be able to spread smallpox without getting it themselves.

And where would they even get the smallpox virus from?

In Australia, Aborigines in Sydney were wiped out by smallpox, not deliberately, but through contact with Europeans.



Possibly true, possibly not, Jarnal.   The incubation time for Smallpox is six weeks.  It takes three months to sail from South Africa to the east coast of Australia.  There were no reported cases of Smallpox on the first fleet.   However, what was on the First Fleet were flasks of Smallpox sores - used in inoculation against the disease.   There is a theory that some unscrupulous settlers may have used that source to spread the disease amongst Indigenous Australians.   However, there is little evidence to support that, except that it appears the first mass outbreak of the disease spread northwards up the coast from Sydney to Queensland, rather than, if as expected the exposure had occurred to say, an Indonesia Makassan trading  for Trepang, where the infection would have spread south (and west)...    Roll Eyes


A theory, Brian, and not a very good one. Discoveries in smallpox/cowpox inoculation didn't happen until the 1790s.

The colonisers spread the virus through their own genetic antibodies.
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Brian Ross
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Re: Ahmadis sentenced to death for blasphemy
Reply #213 - Nov 3rd, 2017 at 5:09pm
 
Karnal wrote on Nov 3rd, 2017 at 3:24pm:
A theory, Brian, and not a very good one. Discoveries in smallpox/cowpox inoculation didn't happen until the 1790s.

The colonisers spread the virus through their own genetic antibodies.


Well, actually, you're correct about vaccination but variolaton (the use of Smallpox pustules) started at the turn of the 18th century CE in Europe, Karnal:

Quote:
In January 1714 Philosophical Transactions of the Royal Society published an account of a letter John Woodward had received from Emmanuel Timonius in Constantinople.[18] Smallpox inoculation was advocated as a proven method of curbing the severity of the disease.

The practice was introduced to England by Lady Mary Wortley Montagu. Lady Montagu's husband, Edward Wortley Montagu, served as the British ambassador to the Ottoman Empire from 1716 to 1718. She witnessed firsthand the Turkish use of inoculation in Istanbul,[19] and was greatly impressed:[20] she had lost a brother to smallpox and bore facial scars from the disease herself. When a smallpox epidemic threatened England in 1721, she called on her physician, Charles Maitland, to inoculate her daughter. She invited friends to see her daughter, including Sir Hans Sloane, the King's physician. Sufficient interest arose that Maitland gained permission to test inoculation at Newgate Prison in exchange for their freedom on six prisoners due to be hanged, an experiment which was witnessed by a number of notable doctors.[21] All survived, and in 1722 the Prince of Wales' daughters received inoculations.[22]

The practice of inoculation slowly spread amongst the royal families of Europe, usually followed by more general adoption amongst the people.

The practice is documented in America as early as 1721, when Zabdiel Boylston, at the urging of Cotton Mather, successfully inoculated two slaves and his own son. Mather, a prominent Boston minister, had heard a description of the African practice of inoculation from his Sudanese slave, Onesimus, in 1706, and later from Timoni's report to the Royal Society,[23] but had been previously unable to convince local physicians to attempt the procedure.[24] Following this initial success, Boylston began performing inoculations throughout Boston, despite much controversy and at least one attempt upon his life. The effectiveness of the procedure was proven when, of the nearly three hundred people Boylston inoculated during the outbreak, only six died, whereas the mortality rate among those who contracted the disease naturally was one in six.[25] Boylston traveled to London in 1724. There he published his results and was elected to the Royal Society in 1726.

In France, considerable opposition arose to the introduction of inoculation, and it was banned by the Parlement. Voltaire, in his Lettres Philosophiques, wrote a criticism of his countrymen for being opposed to inoculation and having so little regard for the welfare of their children, concluding that "had inoculation been practised in France it would have saved the lives of thousands.".[27]

Inoculation grew in popularity in Europe through the 18th century. Given the high prevalence and often severe consequences of smallpox in Europe in the 18th century (according to Voltaire, there was a 60% incidence of first infection, a 20% mortality rate, and a 20% incidence of severe scarring),[28] many parents felt that the benefits of inoculation outweighed the risks and so inoculated their children.[29]

[Source]

This is, of course, well before the arrival of the First Fleet to Australia...
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polite_gandalf
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Re: Ahmadis sentenced to death for blasphemy
Reply #214 - Nov 3rd, 2017 at 5:12pm
 
Karnal wrote on Nov 3rd, 2017 at 12:08pm:
polite_gandalf wrote on Nov 3rd, 2017 at 11:03am:
Karnal wrote on Nov 2nd, 2017 at 10:19pm:
Frank wrote on Nov 2nd, 2017 at 10:07pm:
Karnal wrote on Nov 2nd, 2017 at 9:12pm:
No worries. Kindly name the grand aggregate of ALL Muslim countries and their Western colonial equivalent - by kill.

Cheers.


Remove whatever is in your mouth, Kameeeeeel, and be precise about what you are asking. This is NOT  a public toilet where any dick might do you.  "the grand aggregate of ALL Muslim countries and their Western colonial equivalent" makes no sense. 'Muslim countries' ('countries', for that matter) are a recent inventions.  In the meantime, I can tell you that Muslim conquests of India, for example, have been up there with the bloodiest.  The whole Sikh wheeze was in response to the Muslim onslaught. The way Muslims disposed of the Armenians also gives you a glimpse into Islamic 'toleration' of diversity.

Suck on that, between cubicles, Kameeeeeel.



I most certainly will not. FD's beef with G is over that utilitarian phenomenon known as a number.

G has posted things called figures. FD tried the old no speaka da English ruse for a few pages, but you speak Danish so we know you can keep up.

Try reading the numerals, old boy. Do you take any issue with G's maths?


8 million estimated native Indians in South America. 2-13 million in Congo. Thats just for starters. How many North American Indians were wiped out? Arguably the greatest genocide in all of history, complete with small pox blankets. Africa - probably the most ravaged continent by Europeans of all - the devastating effects of which are only to evident to this very day. Oh but FD will say the diseases the Europeans spread while raping and pillaging were not deliberately spread, so its all good. No moral responsibility. He'll probably also try on the "wheres the source Gandalf" ruse for these figures, and once again "forget" that he's read and even quoted the wikipedia quotes that I posted. He'll then continue on with the "oh there's no exact total, sorry can't discuss it" copout. Apparently oblivious to the fact that undeniably entire continents were violently overtaken, and entire populations ethnically cleansed, and often annihilated - unlike in any other time in history. It is simply self-evident that European colonialism was the most disruptive, violent and devastating period for the most number of people, in the smallest period of time, in all of history. 


Well sure, but I don't buy the Smallpox blankets. Settlers had no idea of germ theory, and wouldn't be able to spread smallpox without getting it themselves.

And where would they even get the smallpox virus from?

In Australia, Aborigines in Sydney were wiped out by smallpox, not deliberately, but through contact with Europeans.


British deliberate use of smallpox for biological warfare:

Quote:
British officers, including the top British commanding generals, ordered, sanctioned, paid for and conducted the use of smallpox against the Native Americans. As described by one historian, "there is no doubt that British military authorities approved of attempts to spread smallpox among the enemy", and "it was deliberate British policy to infect the indians with smallpox"


Quote:
"Out of our regard to them we gave them two Blankets and an Handkerchief out of the Small Pox Hospital. I hope it will have the desired effect."
William Trent, William Trent's Journal at Fort Pitt


Quote:
"You will do well to try to inoculate the Indians, by means of blankets, as well as to try every other method that can serve to extirpate this execrable race." — Jeffery Amherst[12]


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Native_American_disease_and_epidemics
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Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.
 
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freediver
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Re: Ahmadis sentenced to death for blasphemy
Reply #215 - Nov 3rd, 2017 at 6:32pm
 
polite_gandalf wrote on Nov 3rd, 2017 at 2:26pm:
freediver wrote on Nov 3rd, 2017 at 12:13pm:
lso, didn't your link about the Congo say a lot of the deaths were caused by drought? Have you read it?


Does it FD? Lets see - go to the article and press ctrl-f and type in the word "drought". How many hits do you get? Never mind, I'll save you the trouble, we know you have an aversion to actually reading sources. Its zero, nada, zilch. Oh, and just for fun, why not do the same for "weather". Oh what the hell, lets try "climate". Can you guess how many hits there are? 


From your link:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atrocities_in_the_Congo_Free_State

Disease, famine and violence combined to reduce the birth-rate while excess deaths rose.

Hmmm. What causes famine in Africa Gandalf?

Also from tour link:

In 1901 alone it was estimated that half-a-million Congolese had died from sleeping sickness.

Is this one of those diseases you blame Europeans for?

Oh look, also from your link:

Diseases imported by Arab traders, European colonists and African porters ravaged the Congolese population and "greatly exceeded" the numbers killed by violence.

Grin Grin Grin

Are Europeans also to blame for these diseases Gandalf?

Quote:
I was actually inviting you to use your common sense. I kinda figured that the establishment of (by far) the largest programs of invasion and conquest and ethnic cleansing the world has ever seen - the first time that such a program had global reach, the first time in which entire continents were conquered and in many cases cleansed of natives - by the many millions - is self-evidently a level of slaughter and destruction not seen before in history. Also, the irony of you, on so many previous occasions refusing to cite evidence for your claims while hiding behind the most absurd "I defer to common sense" justifications - is not lost on me.


And yet the numbers you quoted have been exceeded in a single year outside of that period Gandalf. Are you using "common snse" to defend a statement you know to be wrong as some kind of payback for other people using the term to try to get you to acknowledge the bleeding obvious?
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People who can't distinguish between etymology and entomology bug me in ways I cannot put into words.
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Karnal
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Re: Ahmadis sentenced to death for blasphemy
Reply #216 - Nov 3rd, 2017 at 8:34pm
 
freediver wrote on Nov 3rd, 2017 at 6:32pm:
polite_gandalf wrote on Nov 3rd, 2017 at 2:26pm:
freediver wrote on Nov 3rd, 2017 at 12:13pm:
lso, didn't your link about the Congo say a lot of the deaths were caused by drought? Have you read it?


Does it FD? Lets see - go to the article and press ctrl-f and type in the word "drought". How many hits do you get? Never mind, I'll save you the trouble, we know you have an aversion to actually reading sources. Its zero, nada, zilch. Oh, and just for fun, why not do the same for "weather". Oh what the hell, lets try "climate". Can you guess how many hits there are? 


From your link:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atrocities_in_the_Congo_Free_State

Disease, famine and violence combined to reduce the birth-rate while excess deaths rose.

Hmmm. What causes famine in Africa Gandalf?

Also from tour link:

In 1901 alone it was estimated that half-a-million Congolese had died from sleeping sickness.

Is this one of those diseases you blame Europeans for?

Oh look, also from your link:

Diseases imported by Arab traders, European colonists and African porters ravaged the Congolese population and "greatly exceeded" the numbers killed by violence.

Grin Grin Grin

Are Europeans also to blame for these diseases Gandalf?


Sorry, FD, where does G's source mention drought?

Also, can you name one (1) developing country Uncle brought Freeeeedom to?

Please don't ask me to type this out again. Just answer it.
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Karnal
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Re: Ahmadis sentenced to death for blasphemy
Reply #217 - Nov 3rd, 2017 at 8:46pm
 
Quote:
General Amherst, having learned that smallpox had broken out among the garrison at Fort Pitt, and after learning on July 7 of the loss of his forts at Venango, Le Boeuf and Presqu'Isle, wrote to Colonel Bouquet, "Could it not be contrived to send the small pox among the disaffected tribes of Indians? We must on this occasion use every stratagem in our power to reduce them." 


Thanks, G. You've convinced me. Good quote.

You've changed my mind.
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Karnal
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Re: Ahmadis sentenced to death for blasphemy
Reply #218 - Nov 3rd, 2017 at 9:17pm
 
Karnal wrote on Nov 3rd, 2017 at 8:34pm:
freediver wrote on Nov 3rd, 2017 at 6:32pm:
polite_gandalf wrote on Nov 3rd, 2017 at 2:26pm:
freediver wrote on Nov 3rd, 2017 at 12:13pm:
lso, didn't your link about the Congo say a lot of the deaths were caused by drought? Have you read it?


Does it FD? Lets see - go to the article and press ctrl-f and type in the word "drought". How many hits do you get? Never mind, I'll save you the trouble, we know you have an aversion to actually reading sources. Its zero, nada, zilch. Oh, and just for fun, why not do the same for "weather". Oh what the hell, lets try "climate". Can you guess how many hits there are? 


From your link:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atrocities_in_the_Congo_Free_State

Disease, famine and violence combined to reduce the birth-rate while excess deaths rose.

Hmmm. What causes famine in Africa Gandalf?

Also from tour link:

In 1901 alone it was estimated that half-a-million Congolese had died from sleeping sickness.

Is this one of those diseases you blame Europeans for?

Oh look, also from your link:

Diseases imported by Arab traders, European colonists and African porters ravaged the Congolese population and "greatly exceeded" the numbers killed by violence.

Grin Grin Grin

Are Europeans also to blame for these diseases Gandalf?


Sorry, FD, where does G's source mention drought?

Also, can you name one (1) developing country Uncle brought Freeeeedom to?

Please don't ask me to type this out again. Just answer it.


FD? You're still here.
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Karnal
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Re: Ahmadis sentenced to death for blasphemy
Reply #219 - Nov 3rd, 2017 at 9:58pm
 
Now you've gone.

Took a while that time, FD.
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Karnal
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Re: Ahmadis sentenced to death for blasphemy
Reply #220 - Nov 3rd, 2017 at 10:46pm
 
Good to have you back, FD.
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Karnal
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Re: Ahmadis sentenced to death for blasphemy
Reply #221 - Nov 4th, 2017 at 9:42am
 
Next day, you're back again. What do we call it?

Ah yes, slippery Muslim evasion.
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Karnal
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Re: Ahmadis sentenced to death for blasphemy
Reply #222 - Nov 5th, 2017 at 12:05am
 
Over a day and not a peep. Do you think he's waiting for G to come back so he can pounce?

How does a jellyfish pounce?
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Re: Ahmadis sentenced to death for blasphemy
Reply #223 - Nov 10th, 2017 at 11:19am
 
freediver wrote on Nov 3rd, 2017 at 6:32pm:
From your link:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atrocities_in_the_Congo_Free_State


Good job. Now did reading that article answer your question?

freediver wrote on Nov 3rd, 2017 at 12:13pm:
lso, didn't your link about the Congo say a lot of the deaths were caused by drought?


Amazing how much bullshit we can clear up by just simply reading what people post, instead of second guessing and flat out making up crap - wouldn't you agree FD?
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A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
Quote:
Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.
 
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polite_gandalf
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Re: Ahmadis sentenced to death for blasphemy
Reply #224 - Nov 10th, 2017 at 11:24am
 
freediver wrote on Nov 3rd, 2017 at 6:32pm:
From your link:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atrocities_in_the_Congo_Free_State

Disease, famine and violence combined to reduce the birth-rate while excess deaths rose.

Hmmm. What causes famine in Africa Gandalf?

Also from tour link:

In 1901 alone it was estimated that half-a-million Congolese had died from sleeping sickness.

Is this one of those diseases you blame Europeans for?

Oh look, also from your link:

Diseases imported by Arab traders, European colonists and African porters ravaged the Congolese population and "greatly exceeded" the numbers killed by violence.

 

Are Europeans also to blame for these diseases Gandalf?


Expertly cherry picked FD. Now I'll simply revert back to what I noted from the article before - which you are falling over yourself to avoid:

Quote:
It is argued that the reduction in the Congo was atypical and can be attributed to the direct and indirect effects of colonial rule and especially to disease and falling birthrate.[15] Estimates of the size of the overall population decline (or mortality displacement) remain disputed but range between two and 13 million.[b]


Gosh FD, do you think this article is blaming the spread of the disease as a "direct or indirect effect of colonial rule"?
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A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
Quote:
Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.
 
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