Australian Politics Forum - Islam-inspired racism

polite_gandalf

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Re: Islam-inspired racism
Reply #375 - Jan 3^rd, 2018 at 6:02pm

freediver wrote on Jan 3^rd, 2018 at 3:38pm:

I don't hold entire races responsible Gandalf. That's pretty much the definition of racism. Getting hysterical about what they did does not change the fact that you are being racist. And apparently you do not even realise it.

Ah you must mean that when I say "Europeans" raped and pillaged the new world - I must necessarily be referring to an "entire race" - because you and Frank say "Europeans" are a race. And presumably, the use of a plural means every single one of them - right? Its all coming together.

I'll have to remember this little trick the next time you accuse "arabs" of doing something sinister. Lucky for you 'muslims' aren't a race eh FD? You can therefore say "muslims" do this and "muslims" do that to defame and demean an entire group of people all day long till your hearts content, and you can happily claim its not "the definition of racism" and therefore no problem at all - right?

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A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
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Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.

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Bertie

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Re: Islam-inspired racism
Reply #376 - Jan 3^rd, 2018 at 7:38pm

freediver wrote on Jan 3^rd, 2018 at 3:38pm:

I don't hold entire races responsible Gandalf. That's pretty much the definition of racism. Getting hysterical about what they did does not change the fact that you are being racist. And apparently you do not even realise it.

If statistics is good enough for 'climate science', why is it not good enough to judge cultures?

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freediver

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Re: Islam-inspired racism
Reply #377 - Jan 4^th, 2018 at 7:44am

One more time for Gandalf:

freediver wrote on Dec 23^rd, 2017 at 8:32am:

polite_gandalf wrote on Nov 22^nd, 2017 at 1:33pm:

freediver wrote on Nov 21^st, 2017 at 12:12pm:

Gandalf can you explain for us your theory on blaming racial groups for the spread of disease?

My theory is that when a group of people (you can call them a 'race' if you like) invade a defenseless nation of people in order to rape and pillage its natural resources, and enslave the population, they are to "blame" for any diseases that they bring and spread (deliberately or not) amongst the natives.

Not to be confused with the scenario where diseases spread as a result of friendly traders making contact with natives in good faith and instigating trade based on mutual respect.

polite_gandalf wrote on Nov 23^rd, 2017 at 3:46pm:

Lets start by not shoving words into my mouth for once. Where did this talk of "races" come from? I never mentioned them. You seem to be constructing some kind of strawman with it.

The whole of South and central America getting decimated by European disease when the Europeans came to rape and pillage and enslave the inhabitants - springs to mind as a case in point.

polite_gandalf wrote on Dec 22^nd, 2017 at 8:13am:

freediver wrote on Dec 21^st, 2017 at 8:28pm:

Quote:

Now try again, and this time try and forget about white and black men.

You brought it up Gandalf.

polite_gandalf wrote on Dec 21^st, 2017 at 3:34pm:

freediver wrote on Dec 21^st, 2017 at 12:32pm:

even though they basically discovered it because they were trying to get away from 'friendly Muslimns'?

Spanish conquistadors fresh from ethnically cleansing Spain of muslims and jews - raped and pillaged America because they trying to get away from muslims now were they? Or late 19th century Belgium - running away from big bad muslims, just happened to run into Congo - and thought 'hey what the hell, now we're here - we may as well rape and pillage the place'. Flay around aimlessly some more FD, its getting hilarious.

Do you really not know this Gandalf?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christopher_Columbus

Under the Mongol Empire's hegemony over Asia (the Pax Mongolica, or Mongol peace), Europeans had long enjoyed a safe land passage, the Silk Road, to the Indies (then construed roughly as all of south and east Asia) and China, which were sources of valuable goods such as spices and silk. With the fall of Constantinople to the Ottoman Turks in 1453, the land route to Asia became much more difficult and dangerous. Portuguese navigators tried to find a sea way to Asia.

So your argument goes - while the Spanish were trying to avoid the muslims to find a way to Asia, they instead stumbled upon the Americas....

Quote:

I blame the Europeans for raping and pillaging and enslaving and committing genocide of the inhabitants - as well as for any other devastating effects that rape and pillage and genocide had on the inhabitants - unforeseen or otherwise.

polite_gandalf wrote on Dec 22^nd, 2017 at 8:09pm:

you are not making any coherent point here homo

Take whatever scenario you like - it still doesn't alter the essential point: the Spanish gave Indians the sniffles/small pox, whatever - because they invaded their land in order to rape and pillage it. I don't have to brush up on my biology to know that.

polite_gandalf wrote on Dec 22^nd, 2017 at 9:55am:

Karnal wrote on Dec 22^nd, 2017 at 9:01am:

It's a tough case to prove, so FD just makes stuff up.

To be fair, he also relies heavilly on the most extraordinarily absurd leaps in logic. From the top of my head just in recent discussions:

- criticising Europeans for killing millions during the colonial period - must be racist, cause you know, European='white' race, and I'm not blaming blacks or muslims

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freediver

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Re: Islam-inspired racism
Reply #378 - Jan 4^th, 2018 at 7:44am

freediver wrote on Dec 23^rd, 2017 at 1:16pm:

Oh look, a white Muslim sprouting anti-European racist propaganda, apparently unwittingly, and turning world history on it's head in order to do so. Gandalf I hope you aren't teaching any of this nonsense to impressionable children. We have enough trouble with Muslims driving on the footpath as it is.

polite_gandalf wrote on Nov 12^th, 2017 at 6:28am:

Arabs are responsible for diseases spread by Arabs, just like Europeans are responsible for diseases spread by Europeans.

polite_gandalf wrote on Nov 3^rd, 2017 at 11:03am:

It is simply self-evident that European colonialism was the most disruptive, violent and devastating period for the most number of people, in the smallest period of time, in all of history.

polite_gandalf wrote on Oct 27^th, 2017 at 9:47am:

freediver wrote on Oct 26^th, 2017 at 7:24pm:

Were the Europeans responsible for disease, famine and falling birth rate?

European diseases like small pox? - obviously. Particularly when they were spread deliberately.

polite_gandalf wrote on Oct 25^th, 2017 at 8:45am:

- would you care to hazard a guess as to how many millions of native Indians were slaughtered by European imperialists In South, Central and North America combined? I think we can safely assume it runs into the millions.

polite_gandalf wrote on Oct 27^th, 2017 at 2:38pm:

freediver wrote on Oct 27^th, 2017 at 12:36pm:

Are you also holding Europeans accountable for the cases that were not deliberate?

Yes. The diseases didn't spread because of some benign, innocent non-disruptive contact with the natives. They spread because the imperialistic Europeans barged in uninvited to rape and pillage and make slaves. But please, feel free to demonstrate your ability in spin and give us a jolly yarn about how imperialists who invade in order to rape and pillage - are somehow not responsible for the decimating effects of the small pox and common cold viruses they bring along with them.

polite_gandalf wrote on Oct 27^th, 2017 at 2:38pm:

By the way, you haven't answered my question - can you think of any other period in history where the actions of one power or civilization was responsible - indirectly and directly for so many deaths? You do agree that it runs into the millions right?

polite_gandalf wrote on Oct 29^th, 2017 at 6:45am:

Can you think of any other period in history where so many were killed as a result of the actions of one civilization/power?

Do you agree that native American populations wouldn't have been decimated by European diseases if the Europeans hadn't invaded them to rape and pillage their lands? A simple yes or no will suffice.

polite_gandalf wrote on Oct 31^st, 2017 at 6:40am:

If the second claim is about European colonial deaths being greater than at any time - there is no source, I stated this from the beginning. As I have said twice already, it is a statement of the bleeding obvious.

polite_gandalf wrote on Nov 2^nd, 2017 at 3:18pm:

Speaking of evasive, can you think of another period in history where so many people were killed by one civilization invading and raping and pillaging so many places?

polite_gandalf wrote on Nov 3^rd, 2017 at 10:34am:

Do you at least concede that diseases that struck non-Europeans as a result of the Europeans invading, raping and pillaging their lands - are deaths as a result of European imperialism?

polite_gandalf wrote on Nov 3^rd, 2017 at 11:03am:

8 million estimated native Indians in South America. 2-13 million in Congo. Thats just for starters. How many North American Indians were wiped out? Arguably the greatest genocide in all of history, complete with small pox blankets. Africa - probably the most ravaged continent by Europeans of all - the devastating effects of which are only to evident to this very day. Oh but FD will say the diseases the Europeans spread while raping and pillaging were not deliberately spread, so its all good. No moral responsibility. He'll probably also try on the "wheres the source Gandalf" ruse for these figures, and once again "forget" that he's read and even quoted the wikipedia quotes that I posted. He'll then continue on with the "oh there's no exact total, sorry can't discuss it" copout. Apparently oblivious to the fact that undeniably entire continents were violently overtaken, and entire populations ethnically cleansed, and often annihilated - unlike in any other time in history. It is simply self-evident that European colonialism was the most disruptive, violent and devastating period for the most number of people, in the smallest period of time, in all of history.

polite_gandalf wrote on Nov 3^rd, 2017 at 5:12pm:

British deliberate use of smallpox for biological warfare

polite_gandalf wrote on Nov 13^th, 2017 at 10:15am:

I'm blaming Europeans for the deaths that were caused directly or indirectly by European colonialism.

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polite_gandalf

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Re: Islam-inspired racism
Reply #379 - Jan 4^th, 2018 at 9:00am

I already asked about the first quote in that bomb FD, I specifically asked you to confirm that it is "blatant racist propaganda". If you can stop ducking and weaving from that, we can perhaps then get on to why that is so wacist. You never know, we may then be able to go on to the next one.

Its much easier to have an actual adult discussion that way instead of dumping two pages of quote bombs and saying "I rest my case" - wouldn't you agree?

Then again, I do concede this technique does make it easier if your only objective is to shout "WACIST" and abandon all pretense of actual discussion.

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A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
Quote:

Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.

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Auggie

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Re: Islam-inspired racism
Reply #380 - Jan 4^th, 2018 at 10:03am

freediver wrote on Jan 4^th, 2018 at 7:44am:

Oh look, a white Muslim sprouting anti-European racist propaganda, apparently unwittingly, and turning world history on it's head in order to do so. Gandalf I hope you aren't teaching any of this nonsense to impressionable children. We have enough trouble with Muslims driving on the footpath as it is.

I hope, FD, that you're not teaching any of your nonsense to impressionable children? We have enough trouble as it with leftist snowflakes kicking up a stink when they're criticized.

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freediver Gold Member Offline www.ozpolitic.com Posts: 51535 At my desk.	Re: Islam-inspired racism Reply #381 - Jan 4^th, 2018 at 12:01pm Yes Gandalf, it is. Though as I recall, every time you seek clarification you leave out the racism, so I'm guessing you do actually know what makes it racist.
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Auggie

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Re: Islam-inspired racism
Reply #382 - Jan 4^th, 2018 at 12:14pm

freediver wrote on Jan 4^th, 2018 at 12:01pm:

Yes Gandalf, it is. Though as I recall, every time you seek clarification you leave out the racism, so I'm guessing you do actually know what makes it racist.

Yes FD, it is. Though as I recall, every time you seek clarification you leave out the principal 'rule of law', so I'm guessing you do actually know what makes it 'arbitrary'.

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polite_gandalf

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Re: Islam-inspired racism
Reply #383 - Jan 4^th, 2018 at 1:10pm

freediver wrote on Jan 4^th, 2018 at 12:01pm:

Yes Gandalf, it is. Though as I recall, every time you seek clarification you leave out the racism

Are you saying the first sentence isn't racist? Thats actually what I was asking by the way. You could have spared us the cryptic bullshit and simply answered "no".

So if it isn't racist, why then did you include it to prove my racism?

Quote:

so I'm guessing you do actually know what makes it racist.

No really I don't FD. The best you have come up with is that its racist to criticise European colonialism. Or more specifically, its racist because a muslim is criticising it. Thats literally all you've got.

Are you able to clearly point out and explain where I am racist - without bombing us with two entire pages of quotes - some of which apparently has nothing to do with racism? Or is really nothing more than this 5 year old logic: "Criticising Europeans?? GAAHHH WAAAACIST!!"

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A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
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Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.

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Karnal

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Re: Islam-inspired racism
Reply #384 - Jan 4^th, 2018 at 4:14pm

polite_gandalf wrote on Jan 4^th, 2018 at 1:10pm:

freediver wrote on Jan 4^th, 2018 at 12:01pm:

Yes Gandalf, it is. Though as I recall, every time you seek clarification you leave out the racism

Are you saying the first sentence isn't racist? Thats actually what I was asking by the way. You could have spared us the cryptic bullshit and simply answered "no".

So if it isn't racist, why then did you include it to prove my racism?

Quote:

so I'm guessing you do actually know what makes it racist.

No really I don't FD. The best you have come up with is that its racist to criticise European colonialism. Or more specifically, its racist because a muslim is criticising it. Thats literally all you've got.

Are you able to clearly point out and explain where I am racist - without bombing us with two entire pages of quotes - some of which apparently has nothing to do with racism? Or is really nothing more than this 5 year old logic: "Criticising Europeans?? GAAHHH WAAAACIST!!"

Yes, G, but it might help to clarify which races you mean. Wogs, Dagos, Krauts, Frogs and Greaseballs - not racist.

Englishmen - racist.

Do you see now?

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Auggie

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Re: Islam-inspired racism
Reply #385 - Jan 4^th, 2018 at 4:35pm

Bertie wrote on Jan 3^rd, 2018 at 7:38pm:

freediver wrote on Jan 3^rd, 2018 at 3:38pm:

I don't hold entire races responsible Gandalf. That's pretty much the definition of racism. Getting hysterical about what they did does not change the fact that you are being racist. And apparently you do not even realise it.

If statistics is good enough for 'climate science', why is it not good enough to judge cultures?

Because climat science is ‘hard science’; culture is a soft science. Do you know the difference?

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Bertie

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Re: Islam-inspired racism
Reply #386 - Jan 5^th, 2018 at 6:29pm

Auggie wrote on Jan 4^th, 2018 at 4:35pm:

Bertie wrote on Jan 3^rd, 2018 at 7:38pm:

freediver wrote on Jan 3^rd, 2018 at 3:38pm:

I don't hold entire races responsible Gandalf. That's pretty much the definition of racism. Getting hysterical about what they did does not change the fact that you are being racist. And apparently you do not even realise it.

If statistics is good enough for 'climate science', why is it not good enough to judge cultures?

Because climat science is ‘hard science’; culture is a soft science. Do you know the difference?

Actually, I think anything that primarily rests on statistics is a soft science.
Neither climate science nor the social sciences have an understanding of the complete set of the variables they are dealing with nor an understanding of how they all hang together in a way, say, engineers or chemists do. The building will stand or it will fall, the paint will fade or it won't.

But since nobody quite knows what makes up the climate and how exactly they interact, people create statistical models - probabilities based on what they think might bee important. This works pretty well with weather forecasts - small-scale, often determined by big local features.

The global climate - or the 'soft sciences' - is therefore much easily influenced by changing fashion and politics. In the 70s it was all about global cooling and how viable socialism was.

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polite_gandalf

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Re: Islam-inspired racism
Reply #387 - Jan 8^th, 2018 at 8:20am

FD???

polite_gandalf wrote on Jan 4^th, 2018 at 1:10pm:

Are you able to clearly point out and explain where I am racist - without bombing us with two entire pages of quotes - some of which apparently has nothing to do with racism? Or is really nothing more than this 5 year old logic: "Criticising Europeans?? GAAHHH WAAAACIST!!"

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A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
Quote:

Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.

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freediver Gold Member Offline www.ozpolitic.com Posts: 51535 At my desk.	Re: Islam-inspired racism Reply #388 - Jan 8^th, 2018 at 12:09pm I think you already know which bits are racist, which is why you always manage to leave out the racist bits when demanding I explain how what you say is racist. Gandalf is it a common view among Muslims that Arabs are responsible for Arab diseases and Europeans are responsible for European diseases?
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polite_gandalf

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Re: Islam-inspired racism
Reply #389 - Jan 8^th, 2018 at 12:39pm

freediver wrote on Jan 8^th, 2018 at 12:09pm:

I think you already know which bits are racist, which is why you always manage to leave out the racist bits when demanding I explain how what you say is racist.

No really I don't FD. So if only some of that quote bomb is racist, then why couldn't you just post what was relevant - instead of spamming us with 2 pages of partly irrelevant quotes?

I was happy to go through it one quote at a time. Even though you are still dodging and weaving from my question, my reading between the lines leads me to assume the first quote is not racist - so shall we move on to the second?

Quote:

Not to be confused with the scenario where diseases spread as a result of friendly traders making contact with natives in good faith and instigating trade based on mutual respect.

How about that FD? Blatant racism?

If you can give me a straight answer in under a week, that would be great - and then we can move on to the next one.

Or you could, you know, just dispense with the childish bullshit and simply explain clearly where I am racist amongst all that 2 pages.

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A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
Quote:

Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.

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Poll
Question: Is saying "Arabs are responsible for diseases spread by Arabs, just like Europeans are responsible for diseases spread by Europeans" blatant racism?
yes 3 (23.1%) no 1 (7.7%) yes - but only against whites 1 (7.7%) not racist - WAAAACIST! 1 (7.7%) what an idiotic question 7 (53.8%) Total votes: 13 « Last Modified by: polite_gandalf on: Jan 9^th, 2018 at 8:07am »