freediver wrote on Nov 21^st, 2017 at 12:12pm:


My theory is that when a group of people (you can call them a 'race' if you like) invade a defenseless nation of people in order to rape and pillage its natural resources, and enslave the population, they are to "blame" for any diseases that they bring and spread (deliberately or not) amongst the natives.

Not to be confused with the scenario where diseases spread as a result of friendly traders making contact with natives in good faith and instigating trade based on mutual respect.

Lets start by not shoving words into my mouth for once. Where did this talk of "races" come from? I never mentioned them. You seem to be constructing some kind of strawman with it.

The whole of South and central America getting decimated by European disease when the Europeans came to rape and pillage and enslave the inhabitants - springs to mind as a case in point.

freediver wrote on Dec 21^st, 2017 at 8:28pm:


So your argument goes - while the Spanish were trying to avoid the muslims to find a way to Asia, they instead stumbled upon the Americas....

I blame the Europeans for raping and pillaging and enslaving and committing genocide of the inhabitants - as well as for any other devastating effects that rape and pillage and genocide had on the inhabitants - unforeseen or otherwise.

you are not making any coherent point here homo

Take whatever scenario you like - it still doesn't alter the essential point: the Spanish gave Indians the sniffles/small pox, whatever - because they invaded their land in order to rape and pillage it. I don't have to brush up on my biology to know that.

Mattyfisk wrote on Dec 22^nd, 2017 at 9:01am:


To be fair, he also relies heavilly on the most extraordinarily absurd leaps in logic. From the top of my head just in recent discussions:

- criticising Europeans for killing millions during the colonial period - must be racist, cause you know, European='white' race, and I'm not blaming blacks or muslims

Arabs are responsible for diseases spread by Arabs, just like Europeans are responsible for diseases spread by Europeans.

It is simply self-evident that European colonialism was the most disruptive, violent and devastating period for the most number of people, in the smallest period of time, in all of history. 

freediver wrote on Oct 26^th, 2017 at 7:24pm:

European diseases like small pox? - obviously. Particularly when they were spread deliberately.

- would you care to hazard a guess as to how many millions of native Indians were slaughtered by European imperialists In South, Central and North America combined? I think we can safely assume it runs into the millions.

freediver wrote on Oct 27^th, 2017 at 12:36pm:


Yes. The diseases didn't spread because of some benign, innocent non-disruptive contact with the natives. They spread because the imperialistic Europeans barged in uninvited to rape and pillage and make slaves. But please, feel free to demonstrate your ability in spin and give us a jolly yarn about how imperialists who invade in order to rape and pillage - are somehow not responsible for the decimating effects of the small pox and common cold viruses they bring along with them.

By the way, you haven't answered my question - can you think of any other period in history where the actions of one power or civilization was responsible - indirectly and directly for so many deaths? You do agree that it runs into the millions right?

Can you think of any other period in history where so many were killed as a result of the actions of one civilization/power?

Do you agree that native American populations wouldn't have been decimated by European diseases if the Europeans hadn't invaded them to rape and pillage their lands? A simple yes or no will suffice.

If the second claim is about European colonial deaths being greater than at any time - there is no source, I stated this from the beginning. As I have said twice already, it is a statement of the bleeding obvious.

Speaking of evasive, can you think of another period in history where so many people were killed by one civilization invading and raping and pillaging so many places?

Do you at least concede that diseases that struck non-Europeans as a result of the Europeans invading, raping and pillaging their lands - are deaths as a result of European imperialism?

8 million estimated native Indians in South America. 2-13 million in Congo. Thats just for starters. How many North American Indians were wiped out? Arguably the greatest genocide in all of history, complete with small pox blankets. Africa - probably the most ravaged continent by Europeans of all - the devastating effects of which are only to evident to this very day. Oh but FD will say the diseases the Europeans spread while raping and pillaging were not deliberately spread, so its all good. No moral responsibility. He'll probably also try on the "wheres the source Gandalf" ruse for these figures, and once again "forget" that he's read and even quoted the wikipedia quotes that I posted. He'll then continue on with the "oh there's no exact total, sorry can't discuss it" copout. Apparently oblivious to the fact that undeniably entire continents were violently overtaken, and entire populations ethnically cleansed, and often annihilated - unlike in any other time in history. It is simply self-evident that European colonialism was the most disruptive, violent and devastating period for the most number of people, in the smallest period of time, in all of history. 

British deliberate use of smallpox for biological warfare

I'm blaming Europeans for the deaths that were caused directly or indirectly by European colonialism.

My my FD's certainly in a bit of a state since I started not showing up regularly.

FD would you describe dismissing the genocide in the Congo Free State by King Leopold as nothing but a bit of bad weather and arab diseases as propaganda?

Do you think its the height of spineless apologism to excuse the Spanish invasion and rape of the Americas by saying 'anyhow, it was the muslims fault for trying to tax them on their way to Asia'?

Would you agree that you are taking the old 'Godwin's Law' idea to a whole new level of absurdity by screeching "WAAAAACIST" at the top of your voice whenever a muslim suggests that Europeans are to blame for slaughtering millions during the colonial period?

In your more calm and lucid moments, would you agree that in this little hysterical outburst you've been even more unhinged than normal?

polite_gandalf wrote on Jan 2^nd, 2018 at 12:53pm:


So calling you out on your blatant racist propaganda is now apologism for every past deed you want to associate with racial blame?