Australian Politics Forum - Carbon levy has failed overseas

BatteriesNotIncluded

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Re: Carbon levy has failed overseas
Reply #15 - May 5^th, 2011 at 4:53pm

allgoodfun wrote on May 5^th, 2011 at 3:27pm:

Dsmithy70 wrote on May 5^th, 2011 at 3:23pm:

Andrei.Hicks wrote on May 5^th, 2011 at 3:01pm:

I wonder if people do realize that no matter they do, nothing will change in their lifetime anyway?

What a load of old cobblers this whole climate change business is.

Bollox to it.

Nice to see you thinking of your daughters and grandchildren there Andrei.

Whilst clearly self-centred, his attitude is no wrong. A carbon tax is 100% guaranteed to have zero effect on emissions. No country that has tried it has had any success whatseover. That argument alone is enough to through the carbon tax away. You might as well tax evaporation. It has more effect on global warming than CO2.

"...closed system": bye bye! Wink

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*Sure....they're anti competitive as any subsidised job is. It wouldn't be there without the tax payer. Very damned difficult for a brainwashed collectivist to understand that I know.... (swaggy) *

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allgoodfun

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Re: Carbon levy has failed overseas
Reply #16 - May 5^th, 2011 at 4:58pm

Please delete wrote on May 5^th, 2011 at 3:42pm:

gizmo_2655 wrote on May 5^th, 2011 at 3:37pm:

Please delete wrote on May 5^th, 2011 at 3:00pm:

"Australia's leading climate change economist Warwick McKibbin"

LMAO. Talk about BIAS.

Why? Because he says the tax won't work??

"Warwick McKibbin (born 21 April 1957 in Sydney) is an Australian Professor of Economics at the Australian National University who works across a wide range of areas in applied policy. He has published more than 200 scholarly articles and several books and is internationally known for his contribution to global economic modeling."

That sounds like he might know..He has about the same qualifications as Ross Garnaut..

So when was he anointed as "Australia's leading climate change economist"?

Most people wouldn't dare load someone up that way.

And I'm glad you mentioned that he is on a par with someone else ... which of course suggest he ISN'T "Australia's leading climate change economist".

You're kidding right? THAT'S your argument? this internationally known and renowed Professor is EQUAL best in the country and that isnt good enough?

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BatteriesNotIncluded

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Re: Carbon levy has failed overseas
Reply #17 - May 5^th, 2011 at 5:00pm

progressiveslol wrote on May 5^th, 2011 at 3:03pm:

Abbotts policies allows for the market to drive green technology. Governments always fail and cost us more. They should get out of our way. Take labor for an example. What wasters of money they are.

You don't understand markets at all!
Go on, point to a free one!

You can't, because governments engineer them to suit their purposes of providing goods and services to the people! They can re-engineer them too.... so take a long walk buddy! Cheesy

I think you have to repeat year 11 economics dood! Do not pass GO, do not collect $200!! Shocked

...lastly, hand over the-electronic-equivalent-of-all-your-cones cos you've had enough!!!!! Wink

STOP CRYING GIRLFRIEND! Cheesy

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*Sure....they're anti competitive as any subsidised job is. It wouldn't be there without the tax payer. Very damned difficult for a brainwashed collectivist to understand that I know.... (swaggy) *

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progressiveslol

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Re: Carbon levy has failed overseas
Reply #18 - May 5^th, 2011 at 5:03pm

BatteriesNotIncluded wrote on May 5^th, 2011 at 5:00pm:

progressiveslol wrote on May 5^th, 2011 at 3:03pm:

Abbotts policies allows for the market to drive green technology. Governments always fail and cost us more. They should get out of our way. Take labor for an example. What wasters of money they are.

You don't understand markets at all!
Go on, point to a free one!

You can't, because governments engineer them to suit their purposes of providing goods and services to the people! They can re-engineer them too.... so take a long walk buddy! Cheesy

I think you have to repeat year 11 economics dood! Do not pass GO, do not collect $200!! Shocked

...lastly, hand over the-electronic-equivalent-of-all-your-cones cos you've had enough!!!!! Wink

STOP CRYING GIRLFRIEND! Cheesy

Free??? Free what? I cant see any reference to free.

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BatteriesNotIncluded

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Re: Carbon levy has failed overseas
Reply #19 - May 5^th, 2011 at 5:03pm

Andrei.Hicks wrote on May 5^th, 2011 at 3:01pm:

I wonder if people do realize that no matter they do, nothing will change in their lifetime anyway?

What a load of old cobblers this whole climate change business is.

Bollox to it.

GREED BREEDS BODYBAGS: HOW MANY DEAD AMERICANS ARE THERE NOW?

HOW MANY DEAD DOES JUSTICE EQUAL THESE DAYS IN AMERICA?????

HOW MANY DEAD DOES JUSTICE EQUAL ANYWHERE THESE DAYS AND PAST DAYS AND FUTURE DAYS!!!!

SMILE FOR THE HISTORY BOOKS WON'T YOU PAL!

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*Sure....they're anti competitive as any subsidised job is. It wouldn't be there without the tax payer. Very damned difficult for a brainwashed collectivist to understand that I know.... (swaggy) *

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BatteriesNotIncluded

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Re: Carbon levy has failed overseas
Reply #20 - May 5^th, 2011 at 5:06pm

progressiveslol wrote on May 5^th, 2011 at 5:03pm:

BatteriesNotIncluded wrote on May 5^th, 2011 at 5:00pm:

progressiveslol wrote on May 5^th, 2011 at 3:03pm:

Abbotts policies allows for the market to drive green technology. Governments always fail and cost us more. They should get out of our way. Take labor for an example. What wasters of money they are.

You don't understand markets at all!
Go on, point to a free one!

You can't, because governments engineer them to suit their purposes of providing goods and services to the people! They can re-engineer them too.... so take a long walk buddy! Cheesy

I think you have to repeat year 11 economics dood! Do not pass GO, do not collect $200!! Shocked

...lastly, hand over the-electronic-equivalent-of-all-your-cones cos you've had enough!!!!! Wink

STOP CRYING GIRLFRIEND! Cheesy

Free??? Free what? I cant see any reference to free.

SO, WE'VE ESTABLISHED THAT YOU DON'T BELIEVE IN FREE-MARKETS!

NOW I SIMPLY MAKE YOU TELL ME HOW ABBOTTS POLICIES MAKE THE MARKETS DO THE JOB HE WANTS THEM TOO!!!

DON'T RUSH WILL YA! Cool

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*Sure....they're anti competitive as any subsidised job is. It wouldn't be there without the tax payer. Very damned difficult for a brainwashed collectivist to understand that I know.... (swaggy) *

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progressiveslol

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Re: Carbon levy has failed overseas
Reply #21 - May 5^th, 2011 at 5:09pm

BatteriesNotIncluded wrote on May 5^th, 2011 at 5:06pm:

progressiveslol wrote on May 5^th, 2011 at 5:03pm:

BatteriesNotIncluded wrote on May 5^th, 2011 at 5:00pm:

progressiveslol wrote on May 5^th, 2011 at 3:03pm:

Abbotts policies allows for the market to drive green technology. Governments always fail and cost us more. They should get out of our way. Take labor for an example. What wasters of money they are.

You don't understand markets at all!
Go on, point to a free one!

You can't, because governments engineer them to suit their purposes of providing goods and services to the people! They can re-engineer them too.... so take a long walk buddy! Cheesy

I think you have to repeat year 11 economics dood! Do not pass GO, do not collect $200!! Shocked

...lastly, hand over the-electronic-equivalent-of-all-your-cones cos you've had enough!!!!! Wink

STOP CRYING GIRLFRIEND! Cheesy

Free??? Free what? I cant see any reference to free.

SO, WE'VE ESTABLISHED THAT YOU DON'T BELIEVE IN FREE-MARKETS!

NOW I SIMPLY MAKE YOU TELL ME HOW ABBOTTS POLICIES MAKE THE MARKETS DO THE JOB HE WANTS THEM TOO!!!

DON'T RUSH WILL YA! Cool

We have only established that you make up your own words in peoples responses.

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BatteriesNotIncluded

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Re: Carbon levy has failed overseas
Reply #22 - May 5^th, 2011 at 5:11pm

allgoodfun wrote on May 5^th, 2011 at 3:20pm:

My predominant argument against the carbon tax has always been that it affects the economy negatively while acheiving none of its stated goals. That makes it a truly pointless policy.

YEH, okeley dokeley!

I don't think too many people would pay good money for advice like that!

Wink

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*Sure....they're anti competitive as any subsidised job is. It wouldn't be there without the tax payer. Very damned difficult for a brainwashed collectivist to understand that I know.... (swaggy) *

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BatteriesNotIncluded

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Re: Carbon levy has failed overseas
Reply #23 - May 5^th, 2011 at 5:14pm

progressiveslol wrote on May 5^th, 2011 at 5:09pm:

BatteriesNotIncluded wrote on May 5^th, 2011 at 5:06pm:

progressiveslol wrote on May 5^th, 2011 at 5:03pm:

BatteriesNotIncluded wrote on May 5^th, 2011 at 5:00pm:

progressiveslol wrote on May 5^th, 2011 at 3:03pm:

Abbotts policies allows for the market to drive green technology. Governments always fail and cost us more. They should get out of our way. Take labor for an example. What wasters of money they are.

You don't understand markets at all!
Go on, point to a free one!

You can't, because governments engineer them to suit their purposes of providing goods and services to the people! They can re-engineer them too.... so take a long walk buddy! Cheesy

I think you have to repeat year 11 economics dood! Do not pass GO, do not collect $200!! Shocked

...lastly, hand over the-electronic-equivalent-of-all-your-cones cos you've had enough!!!!! Wink

STOP CRYING GIRLFRIEND! Cheesy

Free??? Free what? I cant see any reference to free.

SO, WE'VE ESTABLISHED THAT YOU DON'T BELIEVE IN FREE-MARKETS!

NOW I SIMPLY MAKE YOU TELL ME HOW ABBOTTS POLICIES MAKE THE MARKETS DO THE JOB HE WANTS THEM TOO!!!

DON'T RUSH WILL YA! Cool

We have only established that you make up your own words in peoples responses.

oh noes YELLOW CHICKEN IS COMING TO GET US ALL, HIDE QUICKLY! Grin

Man, I feel like I've just had a shot of pure ecstacy writing that! Wink

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*Sure....they're anti competitive as any subsidised job is. It wouldn't be there without the tax payer. Very damned difficult for a brainwashed collectivist to understand that I know.... (swaggy) *

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allgoodfun New Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 28	Re: Carbon levy has failed overseas Reply #24 - May 5^th, 2011 at 6:23pm Keep in mind that these sorts of responses are those that the mythical moderators actually want. lots of posts, lots of noise, zero content.
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BatteriesNotIncluded

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Re: Carbon levy has failed overseas
Reply #25 - May 5^th, 2011 at 6:46pm

allgoodfun wrote on May 5^th, 2011 at 6:23pm:

Keep in mind that these sorts of responses are those that the mythical moderators actually want. lots of posts, lots of noise, zero content.

I will.... I promise to overdose on this profound statement until my head becomes a cartoon like that guy off that show ya know!!!!

yeh!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I can feel it's profoundness already!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Shocked

I should come here to talk to intellectuals like you more often!!

Yeh, man, plooooooooooooooise can I join the club that votes for the Liberal Party cos you guys know what's going on like!!!! ???? Roll Eyes

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*Sure....they're anti competitive as any subsidised job is. It wouldn't be there without the tax payer. Very damned difficult for a brainwashed collectivist to understand that I know.... (swaggy) *

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freediver

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Re: Carbon levy has failed overseas
Reply #26 - May 5^th, 2011 at 6:52pm

Maqqa wrote on May 5^th, 2011 at 2:20pm:

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/national-affairs/climate/carbon-levy-has-failed-...

THE carbon tax promised by the Gillard government is unlikely to have a significant effect on either the economy or the use of energy.

But there is some concern that the transition to an emissions trading system in three to five years time could bring a dramatic jump in the carbon price.

The experience in both Europe and New Zealand shows that simply putting a price on carbon has had little influence on behaviour.

Australia's leading climate change economist Warwick McKibbin said it had been established that the only carbon abatement in Europe had been the result of regulation and subsidies, which had boosted the use of solar and wind power.

"A carbon price is just a pure cost and gives you little incentive to avoid it unless you know what will happen in the future," he said.

He said a carbon tax was preferable to an emissions trading system, because it conferred greater certainty, but it was really only an interim step

The chief economist with the New Zealand consultancy Infometrics, Adolf Stroombergen, said the introduction of a carbon emissions trading system 18 months ago had brought some increase in energy prices but had little influence beyond that.

"It has added 3c a litre to the cost of petrol, but we'll probably see that go up 10c a litre over the coming week because of the Middle East. People have got used to prices going up and down," he said.

The Commonwealth Bank's chief New Zealand economist, Chris Tennant-Brown, said environmentalists would regard their scheme as "a bit of a disaster", with the change in price too small to generate change in behaviour.

Seems like a pretty silly analysis. Both a tax and a trading scheme can achieve anywhere between a 0% and 100% cut in emissions. How much it achieves depends on the price or allowable limits under a trading scheme. Whatever you set that at, it will achieve the emissions reductions at much lower cost than the alternatives promoted in the article. He might as well argue that speed limits don't work if you set tham at 200 km/h.

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People who can't distinguish between etymology and entomology bug me in ways I cannot put into words.

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Maqqa

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14% - that low?!

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Re: Carbon levy has failed overseas
Reply #27 - May 5^th, 2011 at 7:11pm

freediver wrote on May 5^th, 2011 at 6:52pm:

Seems like a pretty silly analysis. Both a tax and a trading scheme can achieve anywhere between a 0% and 100% cut in emissions. How much it achieves depends on the price or allowable limits under a trading scheme. Whatever you set that at, it will achieve the emissions reductions at much lower cost than the alternatives promoted in the article. He might as well argue that speed limits don't work if you set tham at 200 km/h.

The speed limit example does not stick if you look at the limits in Germany and Australia

The tax was never meant to anything near 100% so your example was only ever going to be hypothetical

The point is it does not work overseas in several countries so why implement it here?!

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Bill 14% is not the alcohol content of that wine. It's your poll number

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Maqqa Gold Member Offline 14% - that low?! Posts: 16000	Re: Carbon levy has failed overseas Reply #28 - May 5^th, 2011 at 7:13pm skippy. wrote on May 5^th, 2011 at 3:53pm: What will Abbotts plan achieve giving billions of dollars to the major polluters for nothing in return???????????????????????????????? We wouldn't need to do this if Rudd hadn't ratified Kyoto
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cods

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Re: Carbon levy has failed overseas
Reply #29 - May 5^th, 2011 at 7:29pm

Please delete wrote on May 5^th, 2011 at 3:00pm:

"Australia's leading climate change economist Warwick McKibbin"

LMAO. Talk about BIAS.

well ernie, and you call us sceptics.. for not believing Al Gore..lol

and we know he didnt have a boat to row dont we?

most people I have found all take home a pay packey they are all being paid by someone..

so they all have a bias..thats what I think

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