Quote:Anyway, regardless, this whole topic is complete moot. Islam does not prescribe even disciplining a wife (it merely permits it as a last resort in desperate situations)
You mean desperate, like if your wife stops listening or becomes rebellious? How is that desperate?
Can you elaborate on what you mean by rebellious? For example, if your wife fails to ask your permission to leave the house, is that rebellious? If your wife refuses to satisfy you sexually, and does not produce the relevant doctors note, is that rebellious?
Axle:
Quote:Unless your some kind of Islamic expert, hearsay like that doesn't count for much. Maybe you could support that comment with something. Most probably, you'll find that disagreeable passages are interpreted out of existence by clerics referring to context and other passages or whatever. There are a number of Biblical passages, which, if you're being genuine would have you remarking, "SO HOW DOES ANYONE BELIEVE A CHRISTIAN WITH THAT IN MIND".
...
I would go further to say that no reasonable person would judge an individual soley on some religious text or group that they happen to be associated with.
Axle, we are not criticising Abu because he is misrepresenting Islam. We are criticising him because of what he himself says about Islam - his own belief system. Furthermore, from the mouths of Muslims on this site, we have the concept of abrogation - they claim that Muhammed mislead Muslims about the nature of Islam because they would not have initially adopted Islam otherwise.
Quote:I would think how they personally conduct themselves in real life would be the real testimony.
Are you suggesting that promoting the right of men to beat their wives is OK so long as you don't do it yourself?
Quote:I did say that I did a search on whether or not Islam condoned domestic violence. On the first page of hits there were Muslims saying that they didn't condone it with apparent reliance on their teachings.
Just as Abu did here - but then he went on to state that beating your wife for not listening or not doing what she is told is not domestic violence.
Quote:I find the fingerpointing a futile exercise. There's no point in saying one group condones it and another doesn't because the reality of it is that concrete individuals are perpetrating it in virtually all groups you care to name let alone religion.
Axle, this is a very strange position to take. You are basically saying it is OK to promote domestic violence because everyone does it anyway. The first step to solving a problem is admitting you have one. If you deny that wife beating is a problem, how is it going to be prevented?
Quote:I did note that Abu made a distinction. He said that Islam condones physical discipline of wives but he himself did not. I have no reason at this point to doubt what he says about himself. I take it, therefore, if you similarly don't have any reasonable doubt about his honesty then your attack, in as far as it is on him, is without foundation.
You sure about that? What do you think would happen if Abu found himself in the position of having a wife who did not listen or did not do as she was told? I think you'd find that the only thing standing between his fist and his wife is Australian law. I suppose that is better than nothing, but hardly the moral high ground, especiually from someone who would prefer to live under Sharia law.
Once again, it is what Abu says himself that we criticise.
Quote:Now whether you have grounds in saying that DV is institutionalised within Islam. I think you might be on less solid ground.From my internet search it would appear, on a cursory glance that this view that DV is acceptable is not universally held amongst Muslims.
True. Most Muslims ar hypocrits. It's just ironic that their hypocrisy involves adopting a higher standard than their religion imposes. However, I think you will still find that thre majority would be glad to have sharia law imposed upon all of us against our will.
Quote:How in God's name has this topic suddenly become all about me???
Behave you lot .. esp you Imp!
Lisa, you have become rebellious and have stopped listening. Of course it is going to be about you. You also seem to have misplaced your tent.
Jaykaye:
Quote:Here I was thinking that people within Islam were using their faith to justify acts of violence. I certainly didn't think for one moment that interpretations of an ancient text were representative of some 1 billion people. I mean, there are Christian texts that allude to such behaviour, but we don't say that Christians condone the bashing of women - because it would be reasonable to suggest that the majority don't.
We are not judging Abu based on verses in the Koran, but by his own words.
Quote:As have many Muslims living outside of cultures that condone it (Saudi culture being amongst those that does appear to condone such behaviour).
Yet here we have an Australian Muslim of Anglo descent who grew up in a society that opposes domestic violence, who since taking up the religion has come to support it in 'extreme' cases where the wife does not listen or do as she it told.
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wife beating in Islam (Read 92563 times)
