Australian Politics Forum - Australia's immigration policy

gizmo_2655

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Re: Australia's immigration policy
Reply #30 - Feb 6^th, 2011 at 2:30pm

mellie wrote on Feb 6^th, 2011 at 2:23pm:

gizmo_2655 wrote on Feb 6^th, 2011 at 2:17pm:

mellie wrote on Feb 6^th, 2011 at 2:14pm:

Quote:

It's like being an extreme Liberal/Labor/Green.....It's not really a threat to democracy is it??

-Giz, no, not strictly speaking, agreed, however, when these extremists, be they religious groups or even corps are influencing policy/politics, which gives way to fascism, yes, they can interfere with the fair democratic process of itself, discarding others right to freedom in the process.

Take our 'biased' unbalanced media for example ... and how some might argue how biased it's become, this and how this plays a central role in televising pro-(whatever given party they are funding) agenda.

It all comes down to $$$$$, and unfortunately, why do you think Gillard is so pro-Israel? Because it gives her much needed airtime on channel 7.

Otherwise she wouldn't give a sh1t about Israel!

Lol, she even pimped her boyfriend Mathieson out to a Zionist (Ubertas's) development mob in Melbourne, had him selling prestigious property for them as some sort of assurance...well, until we all found out about it at which point he had to resign.

The currency of money speaks all languages and to all groups!

Cool

Yeah mellie....but Zionism is NOT related to Fascism...I know you might think so....but it's like trying to relate Nationalism to Communism.....chalk and cheese, it's quite the opposite

Define fascism, fact is, it's principles are the same...essentially, chequebook privy for some groups/classes, and not others, irrespective of what group/class they be.

Personally, I don't like the idea of any religious group, or corporation, development mob etc having this much of a self-interested say in our nations politics. We pay politicians to run our country, not them...and whilst they, like all Australians are entitled to their say too, I don't think this is overly balanced right now...(media wise) whereby we are becoming quite fascist indeed.

I knew this was the case when we saw BHP's CEO publicly promoting Gillards policies, re- a Carbon tax late last year.

lol

Grin

"Fascism is a radical and authoritarian nationalist political ideology. Fascists seek to organize a nation according to corporatist perspectives, values, and systems, including the political system and the economy."

Happy???

NOW you can explain how THAT relates to the support of the existence of an individual country..

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"I just get sick of people who place a label on someone else with their own definition.

It's similar to a strawman fallacy"
Bobbythebat

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mellie

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Re: Australia's immigration policy
Reply #31 - Feb 6^th, 2011 at 2:30pm

Quote:

but Zionism is NOT related to Fascism

-Giz

No, but it can be, this and can result in the same chequebook determined outcome where our policies are concerned.

Ie...the same pro-Israel Zionist development mob Gillards boyfriend was working for down in Melbourne up to and during the election made generous campaign donations to the ALP.

This and are also personal friends of the Rudds, having spent New Years with them the year before. David Koch is a personal friend of Rudd, and I don't have a problem with this, until it begins to demonstrate a degree of bias in our media.

So....

Yes 'Zionism' can take on fascist tones, in this context. Anything can really...religious group or otherwise..because it all comes down to $$$$.

On the whole, I really like Jewish people, I like their living values and standards, the clean way in which they live, and I especially like the way they place so much importance and value on their children's education, ..but like all groups, this has the potential to be disadvantageous when it comes to political funding also.

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mellie Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 8142 Sydney Gender:	Re: Australia's immigration policy Reply #32 - Feb 6^th, 2011 at 2:37pm I think you need to look into 'Fascism' a little more deeply Giz, no offence intended. Look into..."Religious fascism," sometimes called "clerical fascism," Giz. It's not exclusive to corporations.
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gizmo_2655

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Re: Australia's immigration policy
Reply #33 - Feb 6^th, 2011 at 2:48pm

mellie wrote on Feb 6^th, 2011 at 2:37pm:

I think you need to look into 'Fascism' a little more deeply Giz, no offence intended.

Look into..."Religious fascism," sometimes called "clerical fascism," Giz.

It's not exclusive to corporations.

LOL yes that's cute mellie.....BUT Zionism ISN'T a 'religious' concept...

"Zionism (Hebrew: ציונות‎, Tsiyonut) is primarily a nationalist or national liberation, Jewish political movement that, in its broadest sense, has supported the self-determination of the Jewish people in a sovereign Jewish national homeland. Since the establishment of the State of Israel, the Zionist movement continues primarily to advocate on behalf of the Jewish state and address threats to its continued existence and security. In a less common usage, the term may also refer to 1) non-political, Cultural Zionism, founded and represented most prominently by Ahad Ha'am; and 2) political support for the State of Israel by non-Jews, as in Christian Zionism"

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"I just get sick of people who place a label on someone else with their own definition.

It's similar to a strawman fallacy"
Bobbythebat

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gizmo_2655

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Re: Australia's immigration policy
Reply #34 - Feb 6^th, 2011 at 2:52pm

mellie wrote on Feb 6^th, 2011 at 2:30pm:

Quote:

but Zionism is NOT related to Fascism

-Giz

No, but it can be, this and can result in the same chequebook determined outcome where our policies are concerned.

Ie...the same pro-Israel Zionist development mob Gillards boyfriend was working for down in Melbourne up to and during the election made generous campaign donations to the ALP.

This and are also personal friends of the Rudds, having spent New Years with them the year before. David Koch is a personal friend of Rudd, and I don't have a problem with this, until it begins to demonstrate a degree of bias in our media.

So....

Yes 'Zionism' can take on fascist tones, in this context. Anything can really...religious group or otherwise..because it all comes down to $$$$.

On the whole, I really like Jewish people, I like their living values and standards, the clean way in which they live, and I especially like the way they place so much importance and value on their children's education, ..but like all groups, this has the potential to be disadvantageous when it comes to political funding also.

Hmm mellie, do you believe that Australia has the right to 'self-determination'?? And the right to make our own internal and international policies without the US, England or the UN telling us what to do or how to think....and, Finally, the right to exist as a free and indpendant country???

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"I just get sick of people who place a label on someone else with their own definition.

It's similar to a strawman fallacy"
Bobbythebat

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mellie

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Re: Australia's immigration policy
Reply #35 - Feb 6^th, 2011 at 3:01pm

Quote:

LOL yes that's cute mellie.....BUT Zionism ISN'T a 'religious' concept...

-By giz

It doesn't have to be, but they can and do use 'religion' to bankroll their political objectives,( under guise of saving Israel) and donations generated from this is put towards funding political campaigns none the less, as has been demonstrated.

Quote:

Hmm mellie, do you believe that Australia has the right to 'self-determination'??

by Giz?

Yes I do, but think this should extend to all Australians, not just some fortunate enough to have the right genetic composition.

Ie, save Israel vote Labor!!

This was the message being delivered to the Jewish community last election, some of their students were so annoyed with this they went public about it and were ostracised from their Jewish communities (one even lost his job as the editor for an online Jewish journal/newspaper) for having told fellow Jewish students to vote for who they think they should vote for, not who their Rabbi tells them to vote for as per postal vote arrangement given elections fall on the Sabbath.

.... Not fascism you think?

Lol

Grin

Wakey wakey Giz.

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« Last Edit: Feb 6^th, 2011 at 3:15pm by mellie »

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gizmo_2655

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Re: Australia's immigration policy
Reply #36 - Feb 6^th, 2011 at 3:29pm

mellie wrote on Feb 6^th, 2011 at 3:01pm:

Quote:

LOL yes that's cute mellie.....BUT Zionism ISN'T a 'religious' concept...

-By giz

It doesn't have to be, but they can and do use 'religion' to bankroll their political donations none the less, as has been demonstrated.

Quote:

Hmm mellie, do you believe that Australia has the right to 'self-determination'??

by Giz?

Yes I do, but think this should extend to all Australians, not just some fortunate enough to have the right genetic composition.

Ie, save Israel vote Labor!!

This was the message being delivered to the Jewish community last election, some of their students were so annoyed with this they went public about it and were ostracise from their communities for having told fellow Jewish student to vote for who they think they should vote for, not who their Rabbi tells them to vote for as per postal vote!

Cool

LOL but you DO think Australia has the right to exist???

What do you mean "right genetic composition"???

You do realise that Arab people are FULL citizens in Israel, and can vote, hold seats in the Knesset, own businesses, join the army etc etc, don't you??? Or do you just automatically believe all the rubbish from the anti-semite sites???

To give you a comparison, right now Australia has ONE Indigenous Politician in Federal Parliament...Kenneth George Wyatt AM, out of 150 in the House of Representatives

Israel has 12 Arab members of the Knesset, out of 120...

So, Australia = 0.006% of the Parliament is Indigenous
And Israel = 10% of the Parliament(Knesset) is Arab....

So which country is 'less' caring???

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"I just get sick of people who place a label on someone else with their own definition.

It's similar to a strawman fallacy"
Bobbythebat

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mellie

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Re: Australia's immigration policy
Reply #37 - Feb 6^th, 2011 at 3:33pm

Giz, when we start talking about "Religious/clerical fascism," we are talking about deep-politics, which can be somewhat like deep-space, a little unexplored and hypothesised in places, but it's getting there, this and I think it's definitely something worth exploring none the less.

Especially in light of how 'fascist' our country has become in recent years.

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gizmo_2655

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Re: Australia's immigration policy
Reply #38 - Feb 6^th, 2011 at 3:34pm

mellie wrote on Feb 6^th, 2011 at 3:01pm:

Quote:

LOL yes that's cute mellie.....BUT Zionism ISN'T a 'religious' concept...

-By giz

It doesn't have to be, but they can and do use 'religion' to bankroll their political objectives,( under guise of saving Israel) and donations generated from this is put towards funding political campaigns none the less, as has been demonstrated.

Quote:

Hmm mellie, do you believe that Australia has the right to 'self-determination'??

by Giz?

Yes I do, but think this should extend to all Australians, not just some fortunate enough to have the right genetic composition.

Ie, save Israel vote Labor!!

This was the message being delivered to the Jewish community last election, some of their students were so annoyed with this they went public about it and were ostracised from their Jewish communities (one even lost his job as the editor for an online Jewish journal/newspaper) for having told fellow Jewish students to vote for who they think they should vote for, not who their Rabbi tells them to vote for as per postal vote arrangement given elections fall on the Sabbath.

.... Not fascism you think?

Lol

Grin

Wakey wakey Giz.

Why is voting for the a Government(in another country) that supports 'your' homeland 'Facism'???

Is asking ex-pat Australians to vote for a 'pro-Australian' (or Australian friendly) US President....Facism..or smart politics??

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"I just get sick of people who place a label on someone else with their own definition.

It's similar to a strawman fallacy"
Bobbythebat

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mellie Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 8142 Sydney Gender:	Re: Australia's immigration policy Reply #39 - Feb 6^th, 2011 at 3:35pm Australian political elections should be about what's best for our nation, predominantly, not be bankrolled by those with a vested political interest in another nations politics ie Israel. Don't you think?
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mellie

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Re: Australia's immigration policy
Reply #40 - Feb 6^th, 2011 at 3:43pm

Australia's immigration policy, should be about policy concerning the intake of immigrants, not be about immigrants, religious groups, corps funding specific political party's campaigns with a view to 'instilling' political policies of their own.

And to them, Gillard says thank you for their $generosity$, hence Jewish schools are being funded more than any other independent schools in Australia.

Cool

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freediver

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Re: Australia's immigration policy
Reply #41 - Feb 6^th, 2011 at 3:44pm

gizmo_2655 wrote on Feb 6^th, 2011 at 1:06pm:

freediver wrote on Feb 6^th, 2011 at 1:03pm:

It doesn't really matter what the label is. If people oppose freedom and democracy, they are not welcome.

I agree completely...

I was just wondering if you're using "Secretly run the world" version of zionism....or the actual real meaning??

I have no idea where it was from, but something I read at the time indicated that Zionism should be on the list.

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gizmo_2655

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Re: Australia's immigration policy
Reply #42 - Feb 6^th, 2011 at 3:44pm

mellie wrote on Feb 6^th, 2011 at 3:35pm:

Australian political elections should be about what's best for our nation, predominantly, not be bankrolled by those with a vested political interest in another nations politics ie Israel.

Don't you think?

Cool

No, I'm not THAT naive....do you really think that the Italian Gov, British Gov ,American Gov don't ask, or expect, recent immigrants (from their country) ,to vote for which ever party shows the 'most' inclination to support their country???

They'd ALL like the immigrants to pick the party that will 'favour' them....

It's natural...If your parent's STILL live in a foreign country, of course you'll vote for the party that likes THAT country more...

Just because they're Jews, doesn't make it any worse than if they were English....Unless you're a bigot...

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"I just get sick of people who place a label on someone else with their own definition.

It's similar to a strawman fallacy"
Bobbythebat

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mellie

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Re: Australia's immigration policy
Reply #43 - Feb 6^th, 2011 at 3:49pm

gizmo_2655 wrote on Feb 6^th, 2011 at 3:44pm:

mellie wrote on Feb 6^th, 2011 at 3:35pm:

Australian political elections should be about what's best for our nation, predominantly, not be bankrolled by those with a vested political interest in another nations politics ie Israel.

Don't you think?

Cool

No, I'm not THAT naive....do you really think that the Italian Gov, British Gov ,American Gov don't ask, or expect, recent immigrants (from their country) ,to vote for which ever party shows the 'most' inclination to support their country???

They'd ALL like the immigrants to pick the party that will 'favour' them....

It's natural...If your parent's STILL live in a foreign country, of course you'll vote for the party that likes THAT country more...

Just because they're Jews, doesn't make it any worse than if they were English....Unless you're a bigot...

...

Sorry, you have just crashed and burned,(lost the debate) by implying I'm a bigot on account of my being opposed to all forms of 'fascism' when I have already made it clear this applies to all groups, religions, corps donating and having too much instrumental input in Australian policy,...thus is a deal breaker Giz. Sorry.

Time you sat in the naughty corner with a dunce hat on your head.

Grin

Still, you had to give it a crack I guess... Roll Eyes

It's about what's best for all, not just a few!

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freediver

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Re: Australia's immigration policy
Reply #44 - Feb 6^th, 2011 at 3:50pm

Quote:

As I said elsewhere, you and millions of others have successfully absorbed and accommodated the Islamist view and

So you think I came up with a policy that would exclude from immigration problematic ideologies like Abu's version of Islam because I have been tricked into believing him?

Quote:

Why the jews alone are not entitled to national self-determination

Soren, this is about Australia's immigration policy.

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People who can't distinguish between etymology and entomology bug me in ways I cannot put into words.

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