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Slavery (Read 9503 times)
freediver
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Slavery
Oct 26th, 2008 at 12:39pm
 
This came up in the concubine thread, and a few others.

http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1224850702

Under what conditions may Muslims take slaves? I had been lead to believe that it could only occur through war, and that wars could only be fought when outsiders attacked Muslims. However Abu et al were very vague about what the actual conditions were. Also, in the Dhimmitude thread:

http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1224850702/2#2

sprint quoted a claim that Dhimmis risked death or slavery if they violate any of the rules intended to force them into a life of humiliation. Is this an additional mechanism for aquiring slaves? What other mechanisms are there?
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Grendel
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Re: Slavery
Reply #1 - Oct 26th, 2008 at 3:10pm
 
Does this include the Arab slave traders?
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Re: Slavery
Reply #2 - Oct 26th, 2008 at 4:49pm
 
Yep, those congolese were very big on attacking mecca. Cheesy
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OOPS!!! My Karma, ran over your Dogma!
 
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Re: Slavery
Reply #3 - Oct 26th, 2008 at 5:38pm
 
freediver wrote on Oct 26th, 2008 at 12:39pm:
This came up in the concubine thread, and a few others.

http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1224850702

Under what conditions may Muslims take slaves? I had been lead to believe that it could only occur through war, and that wars could only be fought when outsiders attacked Muslims. However Abu et al were very vague about what the actual conditions were. Also, in the






freediver,


WAR #1

ISLAM  is  at war......
.....with all ppl who endorse and support un-ISLAMIC political systems.

This war against 'unbelievers' exists because [don't ya know?] all un-ISLAMIC political systems, are 'oppressing' muslims, because non-muslims are making devout muslims subject to secular, un-ISLAMIC laws.

This is very, very, unjust!

And this is why the existence of un-ISLAMIC nations, and systems of government, is offensive to all devout muslims.

All mankind must be made subject to ISLAMIC law, Sharia.

And when muslims are strong enough, that is what they will seek to accomplish.

If only those non-muslims would surrender [now], and adopt Sharia, and give all authority to muslims, then we would all enjoy the peace of ISLAM.
/sarc off


+++++++

WAR #2

ISLAM demands intolerance of the Jahiliyya [an un-ISLAMIC] lifestyle.


"THE RIGHT TO JUDGE"
"It is not the function of Islam to compromise with the concepts of Jahiliyya
which are current in the world
or to co-exist in the same land together with a jahili system........"
by SAYYID QUTB
http://www.islamworld.net/justice.html


"....Jahiliyya is a result of the lack of Sharia law, without which Islam cannot exist;"
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jahiliyya#Jahiliyya_in_contemporary_society


+++++++

WAR #3

Here with clarity, ISLAMIST 'logic' and 'intent', is explained,

Islamic Dictionary for Infidels
"......[resorting] to force to disseminate Islam is not war (harb), a word that is used only to describe the use of force by non-Muslims. Islamic wars are not hurub (the plural of harb) but rather futuhat, acts of "opening" the world to Islam and expressing Islamic jihad. Relations between dar al-Islam, the home of peace, and dar al-harb, the world of unbelievers, nevertheless take place in a state of war, according to the Qur'an and to the authoritative commentaries of Islamic jurists. Unbelievers who stand in the way, CREATING OBSTACLES FOR THE DA'WA, ARE BLAMED FOR THIS STATE OF WAR, for the da'wa can be pursued peacefully if others submit to it. IN OTHER WORDS, THOSE WHO RESIST ISLAM CAUSE WARS and are responsible for them.
.....Aggression is something only infidels do.
.....it is not seen as aggression or war when Muslims attack non-Muslims. On the contrary, it is seen as aggression when non-Muslims resist the Islamization of their lands and thus "place obstacles in the way" of the spread of Islam. They are defying the will of Allah.......subjugation to Islam alone can bring peace.....
......[To the ISLAMIST mind, 'aggression' is...] When non-Muslims do anything to preserve their culture and resist the Islamization of their country."
http://wolfgangbruno.blogspot.com/2006/07/islamic-dictionary-for-infidels.html



+++++++

WAR #4

DIVISIONS OF THE WORLD, ACCORDING TO ISLAM

Dar al-Islam = = the house of Islam, house of Peace [those places where Sharia has authority].
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dar_al-Islam#Dar_al-Islam

Dar al-Harb = = "house of war", those countries where Sharia does not rule.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dar_al-Islam#Dar_al-Harb

Harbi = = "one under a declaration of war", a non-muslim, WHO DOES NOT LIVE UNDER MUSLIM RULE.
".........A harbi has no rights, not even the right to live."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harbi




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"....And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead." Luke 16:31
 
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freediver
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Re: Slavery
Reply #4 - Oct 26th, 2008 at 5:46pm
 
Perhaps we should start separate thread on war.
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Re: Slavery
Reply #5 - Oct 26th, 2008 at 6:04pm
 
freediver wrote on Oct 26th, 2008 at 5:46pm:
Perhaps we should start separate thread on war.



Has Yadda done it again....off topic!

Lips Sealed





freediver,

To make all mankind SLAVES of Allah, is ISLAM's  raisons d’ętre  [reason for being].

I would suggest that 1/ ISLAM , and 2/ ISLAM's war against unbelief, and 3/ slavery [submission to ISLAM] are all interconnected.

ISLAM  is  submission [slavery] to Allah.

And the purpose of ISLAM's war against 'unbelief', is to bring about slavery [submission to ISLAM / Allah].




Hadith....

"Allah 's Apostle said, " I have been ordered to fight with the people till they say, 'None has the right to be worshipped but Allah,' ...."
http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/fundamentals/hadithsunnah/bukhari/052.sbt.html#004.0...


"Allah's Apostle was asked, "What is the best deed?" He replied, "To believe in Allah and His Apostle (Muhammad). The questioner then asked, "What is the next (in goodness)? He replied, "To participate in Jihad (religious fighting) in Allah's Cause." "
http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/fundamentals/hadithsunnah/bukhari/002.sbt.html#001.0...


Koran,

"Fighting [against unbelievers] is prescribed for you, and [if] ye dislike it.....Allah knoweth, and ye know not."
http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/quran/002.qmt.html#002.216




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"....And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead." Luke 16:31
 
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Re: Slavery
Reply #6 - Feb 8th, 2009 at 3:26pm
 
What status do the children of slaves have?
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Re: Slavery
Reply #7 - Feb 8th, 2009 at 11:27pm
 
Judging by your 'understanding' of Islam so far fd, what do you think it might be? I'm honestly interested to gauge how accurate your 'framework' view of Islam is. I will answer.. just wanna see what you would prognosticate the answer to be.

Btw, common misconceptions thread has been updated to include slavery. The article used is taken from Hizb ut-Tahrir who are the primary Islamic political movement calling for the re-establishment of the Caliphate.
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« Last Edit: Feb 9th, 2009 at 1:30am by abu_rashid »  
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Re: Slavery
Reply #8 - Feb 9th, 2009 at 9:11am
 
I have no idea Abu. I thought this came up before but I couldn't find it, hence the qeustion. Normally if I think I know the answer I will tell you what I think it is and ask you if it is true. I have not been backwards in doing so.
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Re: Slavery
Reply #9 - Feb 9th, 2009 at 9:14am
 
The common misconception thread should be called "Common Means of Deceiving Infidels About the Truth of Islam' thread.
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Quote:
ISLAM is a vicious [un-reformable] political tyranny, which has always murdered its critics, and it continues that practice even today.
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Re: Slavery
Reply #10 - Feb 9th, 2009 at 9:18am
 
Quote:
sprint quoted a claim that Dhimmis risked death or slavery if they violate any of the rules intended to force them into a life of humiliation. Is this an additional mechanism for aquiring slaves? What other mechanisms are there?


Yes dhimmis themselves are not actually *slaves* but second class citizens, I guess a bit like serfs where you have the ruling overlords being the Islamic fighters. Fighters, are of necessity out fighting, so you need the dhimmis to work for a living. But, dhimmis who misbehave can be collectively punished as a community, or become slaves as a punishment. Or be crucified.

Dhimmis also should be smacked on the back of the neck from time to time by muslims so they know their place. They must wear distinctive clothing to show they are dhimmis. Their buildings can never be higher than muslim buildings.

Slavery is integral with Islam. Part of the war booty are infidel women. Who become the 'slaves', and are known as what their right hand possesses...the slaves. So you can sleep with your female slaves, no need for marriage there.

But as Abu will tell you, you politely ask your slave if she will sleep with u, and if she says no, then of course you dont rape her. That would NEVER happen. No sir.
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Quote:
ISLAM is a vicious [un-reformable] political tyranny, which has always murdered its critics, and it continues that practice even today.
Yadda
 
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Re: Slavery
Reply #11 - Feb 9th, 2009 at 9:44am
 
The Reliance of the Traveller - A Classic Manual of Islamic Sacred Law says slaves can only be created from war booty, no other way.  In a sense though, dhimmis that misbehave and are put down, would be 'war booty' rising against the Islamic state, so, they could become slaves that way.
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Quote:
ISLAM is a vicious [un-reformable] political tyranny, which has always murdered its critics, and it continues that practice even today.
Yadda
 
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Re: Slavery
Reply #12 - Feb 9th, 2009 at 9:51am
 

Calanen,

Most of what you've just claimed is absolute nonsense. As far as I'm aware there's no Islamic text stating ahl al-dhimma must wear distinctive clothing. Got an ayah or hadith for that one mate?

Just because Caliph Fulan did it in such and such a time/circumstance doesn't make it part of Islamic law/belief. Otherwise we could say Christianity sanctions cannibalism, because some of the brave soldiers of Christianity once ate people.
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Re: Slavery
Reply #13 - Feb 9th, 2009 at 10:12am
 
abu_rashid wrote on Feb 9th, 2009 at 9:51am:
Calanen,

Most of what you've just claimed is absolute nonsense. As far as I'm aware there's no Islamic text stating ahl al-dhimma must wear distinctive clothing. Got an ayah or hadith for that one mate?



Might be quicker to say what is nonsense according to you and why, rather than it is nonsense.

Treaty between the Christians of Hira and Muslims, from Abu Yusuf:

Quote:
"They [dhimmis] shall have the right to wear any kind of cloths save military uniforms, provided their clothes shall not be similar to those of Muslims.'


Umar ratified - letter Christians of Syria to Abu Abayda:

Quote:
'not to resemble the Muslims in wearing the Qalansuwa, the turban, shoes, nor in the parting of the hearir, nor in their way of riding; not to use their language nor be called by their names; to cut the hair in front of and divide our forelock; to tie the zunnar around our waists....'


The zunnar is a distinctive belt.

Quote:
'They are required to wear distinctive clothing such as the ghiyar, a yellow patch on their dress, the zunnar (girdle) and a tall and coloured qalansuwa (headgear).


War and Peace in the Law of Islam, Majidd Khadduri, p 196-197.
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Quote:
ISLAM is a vicious [un-reformable] political tyranny, which has always murdered its critics, and it continues that practice even today.
Yadda
 
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Re: Slavery
Reply #14 - Feb 9th, 2009 at 6:41pm
 
When an adult male is taken captive, the caliph considers the interests ... (of Islam and the Muslims) and decides between the prisoner's death, slavery, release without paying anything, or ransoming himself in exchange for money or for a Muslim captive held by the enemy.  'Umdat al-Salik, 9.14.
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Quote:
ISLAM is a vicious [un-reformable] political tyranny, which has always murdered its critics, and it continues that practice even today.
Yadda
 
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