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Anorexia or obesity? (Read 46780 times)
Neferti
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Re: Anorexia or obesity?
Reply #30 - Dec 27th, 2014 at 4:31pm
 
I am naturally thin and have never needed to diet in my life.  Even when I gave up smoking, years ago, I didn't gain any weight.  I do not nibble between meals and I serve myself a "man-sized" meal but if I can't eat the entire t-bone or all the vegetables, I leave it as I STOP eating when my stomach says it is "full".

I rarely eat chocolate or cakes ... or fruit. I do NOT think about what I am going to eat UNTIL I AM HUNGRY. My mother was obese and at breakfast she was already thinking what she could have for lunch and dinner!

Also, I was told (or read) years ago that your stomach was about the size of your "fist" ... pile the plate with more food than that, approximately, and you are eating too much ... per meal.

Exercise is what the Medicos say you should do.  More people have hurt themselves "exercising" than they have sitting on the couch, eating.

Oh, and remember this. We will ALL DIE eventually. Do what you want to do, eat what you want to eat and exercise if you find it enjoyable .... especially as you get older. If you have always exercised, do not stop. Cease worrying about what the Medicos and others think. They are not God.  Live YOUR Life. Be Happy and die naturally.

Happy New Year!
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ian
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Re: Anorexia or obesity?
Reply #31 - Dec 27th, 2014 at 11:32pm
 
The myth of calories in  calories out and why this does not sustain long term weight loss
and may even be detrimental to those seeking to conquer their own obesity.

We have all heard this at some stage right? Weight loss isnt rocket science, you just need to
consume less calories than you burn and you will inevitably lose weight, its all about will power,
fat people just have no will power. Heres the proof, the "experts" proclaim, no fat people came out
of the German concentration camps where they were all forced to consume minimal calories and burn
more than they consumed. We all know people who constantly struggle with their obesity, it may
even be us, people who are on diet after calorie restricting diet. They lose a few kilos, maybe
even slim right down but the weight goes right back on, sometimes within weeks , sometimes within
years, but go back on inevitably it does. The weight loss industry promoting these diets is worth
around a billion dollars a year in Australia alone and climbing every year, this is the financial proof
that these diets dont work, if these diets did sustain long term weight loss in the obese  then the
weight loss industry would be slowly losing money, the opposite is occurring, increasingly
desperate obese people are spending an increasing amount of money on these diets which just dont work
and obesity is increasing. The problem with consuming less calories than you burn is that we all dont live
in German concentration camps, food is all around us, freely available with no restrictions, there is no
one forcing us into slave labor at gunpoint and enforcing starvation conditions, it actually takes
an enormous amount of will power to consume less calories than you burn every day because you will always be hungry,
hunger for the majority of us is actually our bodies telling us we need to start consuming food, its a system that served
us well for half a million years us and still does under the right circumstances. So why, all of a sudden for the last
hundred years or so do some experts think our bodies hav e evolved to somehow develop a different way of doing things,
the answer is that they havent. Also What happens when we reach our ideal weight?
Do we continue to starve ourselves or do we then revert to our former eating habits? If the former, we slowly lose
weight until we die, if the latter we slowly (or quickly) put the weight right back on, so how do we then sustain our ideal weight?
This would involve exactly balancing calorie intake with calorie burn, this is of course, impossible. Which is why
the vast majority of people who lose large amounts of weight end up putting it back on, plus more.
There is also another problem with this theory, did ancient hunter gatherers use it? Of course they didnt and yet they
all managed to stay lean without the lifestyle illnesses prevalent in modern society, we know this because we have remnants
of ancient hunter gather groups living in current society which we are able to study. No wonder the diet industry is worth a
billion dollars a year in this country, they are selling a crock which not only doesnt work but which the so called experts
have convinced the public should work if only the had the will power. What a crock, huge money making crock.
In the next bit of this essay I will cover the myth of the link between obesity and sedentary lifestyle and how to make
dietary changes permanently to conquer obesity. I am prepared to share my accumulated knowledge with OZPOL readers but
any outright trolling or thread denigration and I wont post any more about this.

This article copyright me and may not be reproduced in its entirety.
 

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« Last Edit: Dec 28th, 2014 at 11:11am by ian »  
 
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UnSubRocky
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Re: Anorexia or obesity?
Reply #32 - Dec 28th, 2014 at 12:09am
 
Labor_Man wrote on Dec 14th, 2007 at 1:43am:
No offence, but I believe that every person has the will to lose weight if they so choose it. I was 100 Kilos for a few years, Then I started noticing that my weight was impeding my health/movement, and I was sweating like there was no tommorrow(not that that's related I don't think?)

But allthough it was hard, I didn't need a diet of sorts. I just walked a hell of alot and ate well, and not too much. Stayed away from fast food most of all. Now I'm 85(not much of an improvement) But I feel a heck of alot better physically/ emotionally.


I'm 123kg at the moment. I haven't been under 85kg since 2006. Being 85kgs, although not triathlete conditioned, is quite a bit better than 100kg. It has been a while since I have been under 115kgs. However, I find it easier to get around at 115 than at 128 (which I was in November). Don't knock being 100kgs, because I would settle for that now over 120kg+.
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ian
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Re: Anorexia or obesity?
Reply #33 - Dec 28th, 2014 at 12:17am
 
UnSubRocky wrote on Dec 28th, 2014 at 12:09am:
Labor_Man wrote on Dec 14th, 2007 at 1:43am:
No offence, but I believe that every person has the will to lose weight if they so choose it. I was 100 Kilos for a few years, Then I started noticing that my weight was impeding my health/movement, and I was sweating like there was no tommorrow(not that that's related I don't think?)

But allthough it was hard, I didn't need a diet of sorts. I just walked a hell of alot and ate well, and not too much. Stayed away from fast food most of all. Now I'm 85(not much of an improvement) But I feel a heck of alot better physically/ emotionally.


I'm 123kg at the moment. I haven't been under 85kg since 2006. Being 85kgs, although not triathlete conditioned, is quite a bit better than 100kg. It has been a while since I have been under 115kgs. However, I find it easier to get around at 115 than at 128 (which I was in November). Don't knock being 100kgs, because I would settle for that now over 120kg+.

thank you for proving my point, bookmark this thread, it will be to your benefit.
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Re: Anorexia or obesity?
Reply #34 - Dec 28th, 2014 at 12:39am
 
cods wrote on Dec 27th, 2014 at 7:43am:
Ex Dame Pansi wrote on Dec 27th, 2014 at 6:40am:
The only thing that makes us fat is consuming more kilojoules than we burn up.



spot on..

we do not move enough.....how many fat people do you see walking or jogging....almost none..why.. because they cant.....


If you want to have a laugh, or a change of heart about your opinion, you can see me trying to jog along the highway at midnight some nights. We do try and lose the kilos. Just that it's difficult to look composed when we exercise without making ourselves exhausted. Even 30kgs ago, I had difficulty running around without having to stop after 100 meters. Years ago, I could run 5km without needing a rest. But that was 40kgs ago. Imagine how well I do running around with 120kg of bulk, trying to shed some of it? I actually feel fitter these days. But I know that I could shed that 40kgs and be a lot more active into my 40s... perhaps even my 50s.

Solutions to my weight problems include cutting down on sugary drinks. Drinking more water. Trying to burn off excess calories. Though it is going to be slow going. I want to be down to my ideal weight of 90kg within 2 months. It's actually doable. But then again, so is running a marathon in under 2 hours.
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ian
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Re: Anorexia or obesity?
Reply #35 - Dec 28th, 2014 at 12:50am
 
UnSubRocky wrote on Dec 28th, 2014 at 12:39am:
cods wrote on Dec 27th, 2014 at 7:43am:
Ex Dame Pansi wrote on Dec 27th, 2014 at 6:40am:
The only thing that makes us fat is consuming more kilojoules than we burn up.



spot on..

we do not move enough.....how many fat people do you see walking or jogging....almost none..why.. because they cant.....


If you want to have a laugh, or a change of heart about your opinion, you can see me trying to jog along the highway at midnight some nights. We do try and lose the kilos. Just that it's difficult to look composed when we exercise without making ourselves exhausted. Even 30kgs ago, I had difficulty running around without having to stop after 100 meters. Years ago, I could run 5km without needing a rest. But that was 40kgs ago. Imagine how well I do running around with 120kg of bulk, trying to shed some of it? I actually feel fitter these days. But I know that I could shed that 40kgs and be a lot more active into my 40s... perhaps even my 50s.

Solutions to my weight problems include cutting down on sugary drinks. Drinking more water. Trying to burn off excess calories. Though it is going to be slow going. I want to be down to my ideal weight of 90kg within 2 months. It's actually doable. But then again, so is running a marathon in under 2 hours.
you dodnt need to cut down on the sugary drinks you need to stop them completely, and cut out anything with refined carbs in it. You can do all this without being hungry and without exercising, you will lose weight.
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Re: Anorexia or obesity?
Reply #36 - Dec 28th, 2014 at 5:47am
 

If you're overweight and change your eating habits into healthy foods and healthy proportions, more fruit and veg, have sugary sweets or drinks as a treat, not as part of your daily diet, you will lose weight and maintain a healthy weight for life.

When you reach your goal weight you can then maintain that weight by consuming the correct amount of kj for your body size and lifestyle. The more you move, the more you burn off, so your kj intake can be adjusted to your exercise.

It is fad diets and The Biggest Loser type programs that are not sustainable long term.
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andrei said: Great isn't it? Seeing boatloads of what is nothing more than human garbage turn up.....
 
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Re: Anorexia or obesity?
Reply #37 - Dec 28th, 2014 at 10:23am
 
ian wrote on Dec 27th, 2014 at 11:32pm:
The myth of calories in  calories out and why this does not sustain long term weight loss
and may even be detrimental to those seeking to conquer their own obesity.



It is no myth. It is a fact.
The article itself admits that the reason many people put all the weight back on is that they don't have the will power to keep to the diet.

The article is right when it states that the weight loss industry has a business model that relies on people failing. That's why all these novelty diets and detox diets are such a crock of shyte.
Once you get to your target weight you then adjust your intake of kilojoules to maintain that weight and make sure it is one that you can live with. You also have to accept that there will be times that you will feel hungry. The short sighted need to feel "full" all the time is fueling the obesity epidemic



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ian
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Re: Anorexia or obesity?
Reply #38 - Dec 28th, 2014 at 11:04am
 
Ex Dame Pansi wrote on Dec 28th, 2014 at 5:47am:
If you're overweight and change your eating habits into healthy foods and healthy proportions, more fruit and veg, have sugary sweets or drinks as a treat, not as part of your daily diet, you will lose weight and maintain a healthy weight for life.

When you reach your goal weight you can then maintain that weight by consuming the correct amount of kj for your body size and lifestyle. The more you move, the more you burn off, so your kj intake can be adjusted to your exercise.

It is fad diets and The Biggest Loser type programs that are not sustainable long term.

you missed this bit of my article Patsi
Quote:
Also What happens when we reach our ideal weight?
Do we continue to starve ourselves or do we then revert to our former eating habits? If the former, we slowly lose
weight until we die, if the latter we slowly (or quickly) put the weight right back on, so how do we then sustain our ideal weight?
This would involve exactly balancing calorie intake with calorie burn, this is of course, impossible. Which is why
the vast majority of people who lose large amounts of weight end up putting it back on, plus more.

Losing the weight is possible, putting it back on easy, exactly balancing calories to maintain ideal weight , impossible. You arent balancing calories Patsi but I will cover that in the next bit to my article.
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« Last Edit: Dec 28th, 2014 at 11:23am by ian »  
 
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ian
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Re: Anorexia or obesity?
Reply #39 - Dec 28th, 2014 at 11:09am
 
The_Barnacle wrote on Dec 28th, 2014 at 10:23am:
ian wrote on Dec 27th, 2014 at 11:32pm:
The myth of calories in  calories out and why this does not sustain long term weight loss
and may even be detrimental to those seeking to conquer their own obesity.



It is no myth. It is a fact.
The article itself admits that the reason many people put all the weight back on is that they don't have the will power to keep to the diet.

The article is right when it states that the weight loss industry has a business model that relies on people failing. That's why all these novelty diets and detox diets are such a crock of shyte.
Once you get to your target weight you then adjust your intake of kilojoules to maintain that weight and make sure it is one that you can live with. You also have to accept that there will be times that you will feel hungry. The short sighted need to feel "full" all the time is fueling the obesity epidemic




I wrote the article based on my own research into health and nutrition as an athlete over 3 decades. You talk about novelty diets but most of these actually depend on rigorously following the calorie in/ out principle which you maintain works but also say doesnt work.  How can we keep saying something works when patently it doesnt? if it did then the obese on these diets wouldnt gain the weight back. I will post another bit to my article hopefully tonight.
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« Last Edit: Dec 28th, 2014 at 11:25am by ian »  
 
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Re: Anorexia or obesity?
Reply #40 - Dec 29th, 2014 at 1:21am
 
The_Barnacle wrote on Dec 28th, 2014 at 10:23am:
ian wrote on Dec 27th, 2014 at 11:32pm:
The myth of calories in  calories out and why this does not sustain long term weight loss
and may even be detrimental to those seeking to conquer their own obesity.


It is no myth. It is a fact.
The article itself admits that the reason many people put all the weight back on is that they don't have the will power to keep to the diet.

The article is right when it states that the weight loss industry has a business model that relies on people failing. That's why all these novelty diets and detox diets are such a crock of shyte.
Once you get to your target weight you then adjust your intake of kilojoules to maintain that weight and make sure it is one that you can live with. You also have to accept that there will be times that you will feel hungry. The short sighted need to feel "full" all the time is fueling the obesity epidemic


Something that you may have missed, that I think ian is trying to tell us, is about our fat cells. Not sure if he was trying to get us to think about this:

When fat enters our body, it is either broken down/burned up or stored. Issue being that when the fat gets stored, it fills the already there fat cells with fat. But as you get older, the fat cells are constantly being replenished and drained, and these cells get stretched. It means that we can store more fat in those cells, and those cells start to multiply. Ergo, you are having to expand your waistlines to accommodate these growing and multiplying fat cells, which leads to more skin on your body, as the skins gets stretched. Then being overweight takes over, that might lead to obesity if nothing is done to fix the weight issues.

After a long period of time (which might include being overweight for over a year, at least) your body is carrying around an abundant fat content. Eating smaller proportions might help in the weight loss, but you have to be strategic about how you lose the weight. I found that losing the first 5kg from a 128kg frame had lead me to chest pains, loss of clear vision, dizziness, and a desire to eat whatever I could to avoid the hunger pains. It's that part of the weight loss that has me stumped. But I realise that I can "tough it out" by eating healthy and trying to eat only when I am hungry. Plus, I don't need to eat until I don't feel hungry. You should eat only what you need to stop the hunger, and not to feel full.

When the weight starts falling off, the issue of empty fat cells becomes a subconscious problem. Whilst the issue of stretched skin becomes a conscious problem. The only solution that comes to mind is to let the skin hang loose, and the body will right itself in time.

But if you give up on your diet, your body will revert to refilling those fat cells, and you are just going to remake that extra layer of skin that weighs you down.
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Re: Anorexia or obesity?
Reply #41 - Dec 29th, 2014 at 9:02am
 
The problem with the claroies in/calories out equation is that not every molecule you eat is broken down and it's energy released.  Those lipitor tablets work on this same principle - making you poo out fat rather than releasing the energy within.
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Re: Anorexia or obesity?
Reply #42 - Dec 29th, 2014 at 9:48am
 
ian wrote on Dec 26th, 2014 at 4:29pm:
the only thing which makes us fat are carbohydrates, even exercise isnt strictly neccassary to control weight.


Yes, it's a simple message that doesn't really seem to get through.  Sugar, contained in carbs, is of course the enemy.


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Re: Anorexia or obesity?
Reply #43 - Dec 29th, 2014 at 11:33am
 
UnSubRocky wrote on Dec 29th, 2014 at 1:21am:
The_Barnacle wrote on Dec 28th, 2014 at 10:23am:
ian wrote on Dec 27th, 2014 at 11:32pm:
The myth of calories in  calories out and why this does not sustain long term weight loss
and may even be detrimental to those seeking to conquer their own obesity.


It is no myth. It is a fact.
The article itself admits that the reason many people put all the weight back on is that they don't have the will power to keep to the diet.

The article is right when it states that the weight loss industry has a business model that relies on people failing. That's why all these novelty diets and detox diets are such a crock of shyte.
Once you get to your target weight you then adjust your intake of kilojoules to maintain that weight and make sure it is one that you can live with. You also have to accept that there will be times that you will feel hungry. The short sighted need to feel "full" all the time is fueling the obesity epidemic


Something that you may have missed, that I think ian is trying to tell us, is about our fat cells. Not sure if he was trying to get us to think about this:

When fat enters our body, it is either broken down/burned up or stored. Issue being that when the fat gets stored, it fills the already there fat cells with fat. But as you get older, the fat cells are constantly being replenished and drained, and these cells get stretched. It means that we can store more fat in those cells, and those cells start to multiply. Ergo, you are having to expand your waistlines to accommodate these growing and multiplying fat cells, which leads to more skin on your body, as the skins gets stretched. Then being overweight takes over, that might lead to obesity if nothing is done to fix the weight issues.

After a long period of time (which might include being overweight for over a year, at least) your body is carrying around an abundant fat content. Eating smaller proportions might help in the weight loss, but you have to be strategic about how you lose the weight. I found that losing the first 5kg from a 128kg frame had lead me to chest pains, loss of clear vision, dizziness, and a desire to eat whatever I could to avoid the hunger pains. It's that part of the weight loss that has me stumped. But I realise that I can "tough it out" by eating healthy and trying to eat only when I am hungry. Plus, I don't need to eat until I don't feel hungry. You should eat only what you need to stop the hunger, and not to feel full.

When the weight starts falling off, the issue of empty fat cells becomes a subconscious problem. Whilst the issue of stretched skin becomes a conscious problem. The only solution that comes to mind is to let the skin hang loose, and the body will right itself in time.

But if you give up on your diet, your body will revert to refilling those fat cells, and you are just going to remake that extra layer of skin that weighs you down.

Sorry, not correct.  I will try and post the next bit of my article tonight.
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Re: Anorexia or obesity?
Reply #44 - Dec 29th, 2014 at 8:02pm
 
Part 2
Why eating fat doesnt make you fat 

Fat makes you Fat right? How many times we have all heard this, the shelves at our supermarkets are full of expensive low fat foods with the heart foundation tick. Most of you beleive it too without knowing why, theres only one problem, not only does avoiding fats in foods not keep us lean but it helps keep us obese. Lets try this, substitute the word fat for lean and try again. Eating lean makes you fat. Im sure if you heard anyone say this and attempt to propogate it as fact you would question the validity of the statement. Yet we swallow the absurdity of the fat makes you fat statement without question and its mostly about how we emotionally process the word fat itself. To fully understand how to sustain long term  weight loss we need to first understand that fat stored on the body and fats consumed as food are 2 different things.
not only is fat the preferred energy source for your body but eating fats instead of carbohydrate helps keep us lean. We only need to look at hunter gatherer societies to see the validity of this, even societies which subsisted mainly on fats and proteins never knew obesity, the evidence is before our eyes yet we still dont believe it. The onset of mass obesity in Australian Aboriginals didnt coincide with the availibility of fats and proteins, this is what they lived on before white settlement. Neither did mass obesity in native Americans coincide with the availibility of fats. The onset of obesity in the remnants of  these hunter gatherer populations who lived and ate much the same as our common ancestors for millions of years tell the same
story all over the world, the onset of mass obesity directly conincided with the availibilty of refined carbohydrate. We even have studies which show that as American trading posts were set up in native areas tribe after tribe became obese after contact. Fat is the preferred energy source our bodies require and the science also supports this, in any endurance event your body will only utilise carbohydrates for the first 20 minutes or so, then its on to fat afterwards, proteins will only be used if their are no fats available. Marathon athletes know this, thats why they store fat before endurance events, marathon runners carbo load before races, or so they think, unused carbs will be stored as fat. This gives these very lean athletes a store of fat they  otherwise would not have had and without which they would not be able to complete the event. Marathon swimmers deliberately store large amounts of fat on thier bodies to be used as fuel during the event, the science has shown time and time again that fats are the human bodies preferred energy source. The human body evolved over millions of years to process and use fats as an
energy source, not refined carbohydrates. There is zero scientific evidence to suggest that consumption of dietary fats is directly linked to obesity.
In the next bit I will show how excercise is not necassary to sustain long term weight loss and how to avoid yo yo dieting.
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