Australian Politics Forum - George Pell Has Been Found Guilty Of Child Sexual

greggerypeccary

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Re: George Pell Has Been Found Guilty Of Child Sexual
Reply #435 - Mar 6^th, 2019 at 3:27pm

greggerypeccary wrote on Mar 6^th, 2019 at 3:17pm:

Bobby. wrote on Mar 6^th, 2019 at 3:14pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Mar 6^th, 2019 at 3:11pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Mar 6^th, 2019 at 3:05pm:

Appeal is set for 5th and 6th of June.

Three grounds for appeal:

- the verdicts were unreasonable and the jury could not have been satisfied beyond reasonable doubt on the word of one complainant alone against the unchallenged exculpatory evidence of more than 20 prosecution witnesses.

- Judge Peter Kidd erred in not allowing the defence to use a video graphic in closing arguments to demonstrate the offending was impossible.

- there was a fundamental irregularity in the trial because Pell was not arraigned in front of the jury.

So says our resident Bush Lawyer?

No.

Bret Walker SC.

One of the best lawyers in the country.

"Served as the President of the NSW Bar Association, President of the Law Council of Australia, Chairman of LCA National Criminal Law Liaison Committee and Governor of the Law Foundation of NSW, Walker was also appointed the first Independent National Security Legislation Monitor."

Pell's pulled out the big guns.

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Aussie

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Re: George Pell Has Been Found Guilty Of Child Sexual
Reply #436 - Mar 6^th, 2019 at 3:37pm

greggerypeccary wrote on Mar 6^th, 2019 at 3:11pm:

[quote author=greggerypeccary link=1551141652/429#429 date=1551848720]
Appeal is set for 5th and 6th of June.

That's when it will be heard. The decision will be much later (in the normal course of things.)

Quote:

Three grounds for appeal:

- the verdicts were unreasonable and the jury could not have been satisfied beyond reasonable doubt on the word of one complainant alone against the unchallenged exculpatory evidence of more than 20 prosecution witnesses.

Which is exactly what has been argued here.

Quote:

- Judge Peter Kidd erred in not allowing the defence to use a video graphic in closing arguments to demonstrate the offending was impossible.

Not sure what that is about.

Quote:

- there was a fundamental irregularity in the trial because Pell was not arraigned in front of the jury.

That's odd, and I have no idea what it is referring to. In Qld.....the entire Jury panel (all the prospective Jurors) is in the back of the Court Room, and the accused has the charges read out and is asked to plead, either guilty or not guilty. If the plea is guilty, the Panel is excused, and a sentencing process in then commenced.

If the plea is not guilty, then the next thing is the selection of the 12 to sit on the Jury. When that is complete, the rest of the panel are excused to some later date or completely discharged if that particular accused is the last to be dealt with by that Judge in that sitting period.

I have no idea why Pell would not have been dealt with in that same way.

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Captain Nemo

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Re: George Pell Has Been Found Guilty Of Child Sexual
Reply #437 - Mar 6^th, 2019 at 3:45pm

Aussie wrote on Mar 6^th, 2019 at 3:37pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Mar 6^th, 2019 at 3:11pm:

[quote author=greggerypeccary link=1551141652/429#429 date=1551848720]
Appeal is set for 5th and 6th of June.

That's when it will be heard. The decision will be much later (in the normal course of things.)

Quote:

Three grounds for appeal:

- the verdicts were unreasonable and the jury could not have been satisfied beyond reasonable doubt on the word of one complainant alone against the unchallenged exculpatory evidence of more than 20 prosecution witnesses.

Which is exactly what has been argued here.

Quote:

- Judge Peter Kidd erred in not allowing the defence to use a video graphic in closing arguments to demonstrate the offending was impossible.

Not sure what that is about.

Quote:

- there was a fundamental irregularity in the trial because Pell was not arraigned in front of the jury.

That's odd, and I have no idea what it is referring to. In Qld.....the entire Jury panel (all the prospective Jurors) is in the back of the Court Room, and the accused has the charges read out and is asked to plead, either guilty or not guilty. If the plea is guilty, the Panel is excused, and a sentencing process in then commenced.

If the plea is not guilty, then the next thing is the selection of the 12 to sit on the Jury. When that is complete, the rest of the panel are excused to some later date or completely discharged if that particular accused is the last to be dealt with by that Judge in that sitting period.

I have no idea why Pell would not have been dealt with in that same way.

On this one:

Quote:

- Judge Peter Kidd erred in not allowing the defence to use a video graphic in closing arguments to demonstrate the offending was impossible.

The defence wanted to play an "animation" to try to show the events as described by the victim could not have happened.

I dare say this grounds for appeal will be tossed out.

An "animation" being denied in court would be a very odd ground for appeal I reckon.

Still, we will find out later in the year if spending even more squillions on Pell's defence will work or not.

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The 2025 election WAS a shocker.

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Bobby.

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Re: George Pell Has Been Found Guilty Of Child Sexual
Reply #438 - Mar 6^th, 2019 at 5:57pm

greggerypeccary wrote on Mar 6^th, 2019 at 3:17pm:

Bobby. wrote on Mar 6^th, 2019 at 3:14pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Mar 6^th, 2019 at 3:11pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Mar 6^th, 2019 at 3:05pm:

Appeal is set for 5th and 6th of June.

Three grounds for appeal:

- the verdicts were unreasonable and the jury could not have been satisfied beyond reasonable doubt on the word of one complainant alone against the unchallenged exculpatory evidence of more than 20 prosecution witnesses.

- Judge Peter Kidd erred in not allowing the defence to use a video graphic in closing arguments to demonstrate the offending was impossible.

- there was a fundamental irregularity in the trial because Pell was not arraigned in front of the jury.

So says our resident Bush Lawyer?

No.

Bret Walker SC.

Next time at least give a link when you quote someone - you fool.

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greggerypeccary Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 141969 Gender:	Re: George Pell Has Been Found Guilty Of Child Sexual Reply #439 - Mar 6^th, 2019 at 6:32pm Bobby. wrote on Mar 6^th, 2019 at 5:57pm: Next time at least give a link when you quote someone - you fool. Link this:
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Frank Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 49920 Gender:	Re: George Pell Has Been Found Guilty Of Child Sexual Reply #440 - Mar 6^th, 2019 at 9:33pm The appeal court cannot possibly confirm the verdict.
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cods Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 88048	Re: George Pell Has Been Found Guilty Of Child Sexual Reply #441 - Mar 7^th, 2019 at 7:56am is he still in Jail?
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cods Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 88048	Re: George Pell Has Been Found Guilty Of Child Sexual Reply #442 - Mar 7^th, 2019 at 8:00am there was a fundamental irregularity in the trial because Pell was not arraigned in front of the jury. what does that mean exactly?
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greggerypeccary Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 141969 Gender:	Re: George Pell Has Been Found Guilty Of Child Sexual Reply #443 - Mar 7^th, 2019 at 8:00am cods wrote on Mar 7^th, 2019 at 7:56am: is he still in Jail? Yes. He'll remain in jail until at least the 6th of June.
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Aussie Gold Member Offline OzPolitic Posts: 39001 Gender:	Re: George Pell Has Been Found Guilty Of Child Sexual Reply #444 - Mar 7^th, 2019 at 8:25am cods wrote on Mar 7^th, 2019 at 8:00am: there was a fundamental irregularity in the trial because Pell was not arraigned in front of the jury. what does that mean exactly? Se Post 436 above.
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Prime Minister for Canyons

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Re: George Pell Has Been Found Guilty Of Child Sexual
Reply #445 - Mar 7^th, 2019 at 8:25am

Captain Nemo wrote on Mar 6^th, 2019 at 3:45pm:

Aussie wrote on Mar 6^th, 2019 at 3:37pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Mar 6^th, 2019 at 3:11pm:

[quote author=greggerypeccary link=1551141652/429#429 date=1551848720]
Appeal is set for 5th and 6th of June.

That's when it will be heard. The decision will be much later (in the normal course of things.)

Quote:

Three grounds for appeal:

- the verdicts were unreasonable and the jury could not have been satisfied beyond reasonable doubt on the word of one complainant alone against the unchallenged exculpatory evidence of more than 20 prosecution witnesses.

Which is exactly what has been argued here.

Quote:

- Judge Peter Kidd erred in not allowing the defence to use a video graphic in closing arguments to demonstrate the offending was impossible.

Not sure what that is about.

Quote:

- there was a fundamental irregularity in the trial because Pell was not arraigned in front of the jury.

That's odd, and I have no idea what it is referring to. In Qld.....the entire Jury panel (all the prospective Jurors) is in the back of the Court Room, and the accused has the charges read out and is asked to plead, either guilty or not guilty. If the plea is guilty, the Panel is excused, and a sentencing process in then commenced.

If the plea is not guilty, then the next thing is the selection of the 12 to sit on the Jury. When that is complete, the rest of the panel are excused to some later date or completely discharged if that particular accused is the last to be dealt with by that Judge in that sitting period.

I have no idea why Pell would not have been dealt with in that same way.

On this one:

Quote:

- Judge Peter Kidd erred in not allowing the defence to use a video graphic in closing arguments to demonstrate the offending was impossible.

The defence wanted to play an "animation" to try to show the events as described by the victim could not have happened.

I dare say this grounds for appeal will be tossed out.

An "animation" being denied in court would be a very odd ground for appeal I reckon.

Still, we will find out later in the year if spending even more squillions on Pell's defence will work or not.

Are you allowed to add new evidence in closing arguments? Shouldnt that animation be shown as normal evidence and then summarised at the end?

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No evidence whatsoever it can be attributed to George Orwell or Eric Arthur Blair (in fact the same guy)

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Aussie

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Re: George Pell Has Been Found Guilty Of Child Sexual
Reply #446 - Mar 7^th, 2019 at 8:33am

A bit more information was made public today. The Jury in the second Trial DID NOT SEE the complainant gove evidence in front of them physically. They saw what they saw of Pell....him being asked questions on camera, and the film of that played to them.

In the second Trial, the Jury saw a video tape of the complainant physically giving evidence in the first Trial (where the Jury could not reach a verdict.)

So.....the first Jury ONLY (not the second) had the advantage of seeing the complainant in their physical presence, and they could not reach a verdict. The second Jury saw a video of that appearance in the first Trial, did not actually have the complainant in their presence to fully observe, and they do convict.

(How that video was explained to the second Jury without telling them it came from the first Trial where the Jury could not reach a verdict...I dunno.)

Nah.

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Aussie

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Re: George Pell Has Been Found Guilty Of Child Sexual
Reply #447 - Mar 7^th, 2019 at 8:35am

Quote:

Are you allowed to add new evidence in closing arguments? Shouldn't that animation be shown as normal evidence and then summarised at the end?

Well, I dunno why not. After all, said animation is merely a visual complement to an oral summation to the Jury. One picture/thousand words sort of thing.

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Redmond Neck

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Re: George Pell Has Been Found Guilty Of Child Sexual
Reply #448 - Mar 7^th, 2019 at 8:48am

I watched that 4Corners podcast and it certainly showed that Pell had form in my opinion.

Whether he is guilty in this case is debatable it seems.

The bit I find funny is the apparent total turn around in the jury's guilty numbers from trial one to trial two,

although the jury voting that found him guilty from trial one has not been verified as 10 not guilty to 2 guilty. Not sure where I read those rumoured figures

https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2019/mar/02/cardinal-george-pells-con...

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« Last Edit: Mar 7^th, 2019 at 8:57am by Redmond Neck »

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Redmond Neck Gold Member Offline OzPolitic Posts: 21849 ACT Gender:	Re: George Pell Has Been Found Guilty Of Child Sexual Reply #449 - Mar 7^th, 2019 at 8:50am bump
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