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George Pell Has Been Found Guilty Of Child Sexual (Read 28812 times)
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Re: George Pell Has Been Found Guilty Of Child Sexual
Reply #450 - Mar 7th, 2019 at 8:50am
 
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Re: George Pell Has Been Found Guilty Of Child Sexual
Reply #451 - Mar 7th, 2019 at 8:51am
 
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Re: George Pell Has Been Found Guilty Of Child Sexual
Reply #452 - Mar 7th, 2019 at 8:53am
 
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Re: George Pell Has Been Found Guilty Of Child Sexual
Reply #453 - Mar 7th, 2019 at 8:54am
 
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Re: George Pell Has Been Found Guilty Of Child Sexual
Reply #454 - Mar 7th, 2019 at 8:55am
 
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Re: George Pell Has Been Found Guilty Of Child Sexual
Reply #455 - Mar 7th, 2019 at 9:04am
 
Aussie wrote on Mar 7th, 2019 at 8:35am:
Quote:
Are you allowed to add new evidence in closing arguments? Shouldn't that animation be shown as normal evidence and then summarised at the end?


Well, I dunno why not.  After all, said animation is merely a visual complement to an oral summation to the Jury.  One picture/thousand words sort of thing.




Sounds odd you wouldnt state it in the evidence though
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In a time of universal deceit — telling the truth is a revolutionary act.

No evidence whatsoever it can be attributed to George Orwell or Eric Arthur Blair (in fact the same guy)
 
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Re: George Pell Has Been Found Guilty Of Child Sexual
Reply #456 - Mar 7th, 2019 at 9:17am
 
cods wrote on Mar 7th, 2019 at 8:00am:
there was a fundamental irregularity in the trial because Pell was not arraigned in front of the jury.



what does that mean exactly?


Basically, they didn't stand him up in front of the jury and say "You are charged with these offences ...", and he thus wasn't given the chance to say "I plead not guilty".

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Re: George Pell Has Been Found Guilty Of Child Sexual
Reply #457 - Mar 7th, 2019 at 9:37am
 
Prime Minister for Canyons wrote on Mar 7th, 2019 at 9:04am:
Aussie wrote on Mar 7th, 2019 at 8:35am:
Quote:
Are you allowed to add new evidence in closing arguments? Shouldn't that animation be shown as normal evidence and then summarised at the end?


Well, I dunno why not.  After all, said animation is merely a visual complement to an oral summation to the Jury.  One picture/thousand words sort of thing.




Sounds odd you wouldnt state it in the evidence though


It sounds (to me) that it is merely a visual presentation to accompany oral submissions, and if that is the case, I can't see why there would be any problem.
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Re: George Pell Has Been Found Guilty Of Child Sexual
Reply #458 - Mar 7th, 2019 at 9:49am
 
How do we know the visual representation is correct? What I'm saying is that can you challenge the veracity of evidence given in final summaries? The animation may have mistakes in it, which could sway a jury falsely.
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In a time of universal deceit — telling the truth is a revolutionary act.

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Re: George Pell Has Been Found Guilty Of Child Sexual
Reply #459 - Mar 7th, 2019 at 9:50am
 
I guess what I'm seeing here is a subtle form of denialism. Trying to find any minutiae.


I suspect the level of examination if it was anyone else would be minimal.
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In a time of universal deceit — telling the truth is a revolutionary act.

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Re: George Pell Has Been Found Guilty Of Child Sexual
Reply #460 - Mar 7th, 2019 at 11:14am
 
Prime Minister for Canyons wrote on Mar 7th, 2019 at 9:49am:
How do we know the visual representation is correct? What I'm saying is that can you challenge the veracity of evidence given in final summaries? The animation may have mistakes in it, which could sway a jury falsely.


That's what the Judge has to do.  If anything false or inappropriate is put to a Jury (visually or orally) in submissions it is his job to immediately correct it, and depending on severity, admonish the offending Counsel.
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Re: George Pell Has Been Found Guilty Of Child Sexual
Reply #461 - Mar 7th, 2019 at 11:48am
 
Aussie wrote on Mar 7th, 2019 at 11:14am:
Prime Minister for Canyons wrote on Mar 7th, 2019 at 9:49am:
How do we know the visual representation is correct? What I'm saying is that can you challenge the veracity of evidence given in final summaries? The animation may have mistakes in it, which could sway a jury falsely.


That's what the Judge has to do.  If anything false or inappropriate is put to a Jury (visually or orally) in submissions it is his job to immediately correct it, and depending on severity, admonish the offending Counsel.



See my earlier post.
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In a time of universal deceit — telling the truth is a revolutionary act.

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Re: George Pell Has Been Found Guilty Of Child Sexual
Reply #462 - Mar 7th, 2019 at 11:51am
 

"Proof of crime at trial is a complex and difficult process. Absolute certainty is not achievable, and it is not demanded. Inevitably, innocent defendants are convicted. In Australia these errors only come to light occasionally, but there is reason to believe that many wrongful convictions remain hidden from view. Analyses of DNA exonerations in the US suggest that the wrongful conviction rate is three per cent or higher. While the Australian criminal justice system may claim superiority in certain respects, there is no reason to believe the error rate in Australia would be radically lower.

"An individual wrongful conviction is a searing injustice. The fact that only a very small proportion of wrongful convictions are corrected is a grave social problem. However, the problem is not straightforward. There are good reasons to view the trial verdict as final, and to constrain the opportunities for review at the appeal and post-appeal stages. To reduce the finality of conviction at trial would potentially diminish the jury’s role, upset the efficient distribution of work within the judicial hierarchy, and make it more difficult for victims to achieve closure.

"Nevertheless, it is becoming increasingly clear that wrongful convictions occur at a higher rate than previously thought, and that finality is being pursued at too great a cost. It appears likely that there are dozens of innocent defendants convicted in NSW each year who fail on appeal, and for whom the current post-appeal avenues offer no genuine hope of correcting the injustice. And there is no excuse for leaving this problem unaddressed. There is an effective post-appeal mechanism available which can operate without inordinate impact on finality. NSW should adopt a CCRC based on the English model. The English Commission greatly increased the rate of correction of wrongful convictions. It is viewed by bodies such as the Court of Appeal, Criminal Division and the Law Commission as an essential part of the English criminal justice infrastructure. And the British government, even in the current straitened economic environment, considers that the Commission provides society with good value for money. To not, at least, give serious consideration to this option would be a severe policy failing."


Wrongful Convictions, Appeals, and the Finality Principle: The Need for a Criminal Cases Review Commission" [2014] UNSWLawJl 12; (2014) 37(1) UNSW Law Journal 270
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Re: George Pell Has Been Found Guilty Of Child Sexual
Reply #463 - Mar 7th, 2019 at 11:52am
 
Oh good, so because some people are innocently convicted, that means Pell is innocent. Got you.
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In a time of universal deceit — telling the truth is a revolutionary act.

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Re: George Pell Has Been Found Guilty Of Child Sexual
Reply #464 - Mar 7th, 2019 at 11:55am
 
Prime Minister for Canyons wrote on Mar 7th, 2019 at 11:52am:
Oh good, so because some people are innocently convicted, that means Pell is innocent. Got you.


Who said that?

I'm curious.

I, for one, have never said that Pell is innocent.

Let's just stick to the facts, shall we?

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