Australian Politics Forum - The fallacy of the Greens

Frank

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Re: The fallacy of the Greens
Reply #345 - Oct 12^th, 2022 at 9:25pm

thegreatdivide wrote on Oct 12^th, 2022 at 8:55pm:

lee wrote on Oct 11^th, 2022 at 5:31pm:

The ignorance of experts. “Science is the Belief in the Ignorance of Experts” — Richard Feynman.

Well, AGW-CO2 is accepted as real by all governments.

Even the opinionated Ray Hadley, while today attacking Labor for closing coal-powered power stations, said "this is not about denying climate change, this is about making sure there is sufficient renewable power available BEFORE the coal power plants are shut down, and without crippling price rises".

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A scientist has to be sceptical - except with AGW.

Governments don't....

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You should have stopped at "A timely transitition is impossible". Governments have been trying and failing to the tune of billions of dollars a year.

Failing BECAUSE the private fossil companies are still calling the shots, playing a double game (since they don't want their lucrative fossil assets rendered worthless..); neoliberal market economists want a politically toxic carbon tax to direct the private fossil companies to the required investment, and governments are hooked on royalties)

The public sector should have upgraded the grid a decade ago...now Chalmers will claim he doesn't have the money.

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So now nuclear is green,

China and India are rolling it out; they want to clean up their fossil-caused air pollution problem (apart from the CO2 issue). And France is pushing ahead.

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gas is green and CO2 may not be a problem.

Gas is NOT green (it emits CO2 when combusted); OTOH, governments (...and Ray Hadley....) are convinced AGW-CO2 is real.

(...though Ray is probably just playing it safe, given the elction results...)

You are a parrot with a ferret up yer arse.

Comical.

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lee

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Re: The fallacy of the Greens
Reply #346 - Oct 12^th, 2022 at 10:24pm

thegreatdivide wrote on Oct 12^th, 2022 at 8:55pm:

Well, AGW-CO2 is accepted as real by all governments.

Define ALL. Wink

thegreatdivide wrote on Oct 12^th, 2022 at 8:55pm:

Even the opinionated Ray Hadley, while today attacking Labor for closing coal-powered power stations, said "this is not about denying climate change, this is about making sure there is sufficient renewable power available BEFORE the coal power plants are shut down, and without crippling price rises".

Yes the climate changes. Whoever said it wasn't? Grin

thegreatdivide wrote on Oct 12^th, 2022 at 8:55pm:

Governments don't....

Excellent point. Governments like to keep the population in fear.

“The whole aim of practical politics is to keep the populace alarmed (and hence clamorous to be led to safety) by an endless series of hobgoblins, most of them imaginary.” – H. L. Mencken.

thegreatdivide wrote on Oct 12^th, 2022 at 8:55pm:

Failing BECAUSE the private fossil companies are still calling the shots, playing a double game (since they don't want their lucrative fossil assets rendered worthless..); neoliberal market economists want a politically toxic carbon tax to direct the private fossil companies to the required investment, and governments are hooked on royalties)

And yet it is the Greens that are are causing the prices up, because the time for renewables is not yet. There is not enough despatchable energy from renewables. Roll Eyes

.

thegreatdivide wrote on Oct 12^th, 2022 at 8:55pm:

China and India are rolling it out; they want to clean up their fossil-caused air pollution problem (apart from the CO2 issue).

That must be why they are also running out new coal plant. Roll Eyes

thegreatdivide wrote on Oct 12^th, 2022 at 8:55pm:

Gas is NOT green (it emits CO2 when combusted); OTOH, governments (...and Ray Hadley....) are convinced AGW-CO2 is real.

(...though Ray is probably just playing it safe, given the elction results...)

The Green led governments of Europe disagree with you. Roll Eyes

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thegreatdivide

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Re: The fallacy of the Greens
Reply #347 - Oct 13^th, 2022 at 12:02pm

lee wrote on Oct 12^th, 2022 at 10:24pm:

Define ALL. Wink

"In this treaty, nations agreed to “stabilize greenhouse gas concentrations in the atmosphere” to prevent dangerous interference from human activity on the climate system. Today, the treaty has 197 signatories".

https://unric.org/en/cop26-a-snapshot-of-the-agreement/#:~:text=4%20min.&text=Af...

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Yes the climate changes. Whoever said it wasn't?

You fraud; Hadley was (on air at least) acknowledging the AGW-CO2 debate and the need to transition to green.

You time-wasting fraud, you knew that...

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Excellent point. Governments like to keep the population in fear.

because we are all paranoid Neanderthals who don't want to submit to rule of law on behalf of collective security and well-being.

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“The whole aim of practical politics is to keep the populace alarmed (and hence clamorous to be led to safety) by an endless series of hobgoblins, most of them imaginary.” – H. L. Mencken.

Entrenched war and poverty are not imaginary; it's "security" spooks who are tilting at windmills - the consequence of blind 'survival' instincts in all of us, and a false belief in "freedom".

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And yet it is the Greens that are are causing the prices up, because the time for renewables is not yet. There is not enough despatchable energy from renewables. Roll Eyes

.

The Greens aren't responsible for the slow rollout of renewables and grid upgrade, that's the fault of the conflicted private sector and government collusion with the private sector, when the whole energy sector should be nationalized to eliminate the contradictions of private companies seeking fossil profits.

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That must be why they are also running out new coal plant. Roll Eyes

New coal is a stop gap for them, during the transition.

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The Green led governments of Europe disagree with you. Roll Eyes

Of course, neoliberal governments are conflicted, and colluding with private fossil industry interests, as noted above.

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lee

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Re: The fallacy of the Greens
Reply #348 - Oct 13^th, 2022 at 12:30pm

thegreatdivide wrote on Oct 13^th, 2022 at 12:02pm:

"In this treaty, nations agreed to “stabilize greenhouse gas concentrations in the atmosphere” to prevent dangerous interference from human activity on the climate system. Today, the treaty has 197 signatories".

https://unric.org/en/cop26-a-snapshot-of-the-agreement/#:~:text=4%20min.&text=Af
...

And only 195 Countries (including the Vatican and Palestine). Grin

But of course that doesn't mean they actually believe. China and India building more coal plant tells you more about what they "believe". Wink

Climate reparations now. Maldives, Tuvalu etc are not drowning. Roll Eyes

thegreatdivide wrote on Oct 13^th, 2022 at 12:02pm:

You fraud; Hadley was (on air at least) acknowledging the AGW-CO2 debate and the need to transition to green.

Does he have a radio programme in remote WA? Grin

Oh its a debate now. Not a proven fact. Thanks for that.

So no-one you know has said climate doesn't change. Thanks for that as well.thegreatdivide wrote on Oct 13^th, 2022 at 12:02pm:

Entrenched war and poverty are not imaginary; it's "security" spooks who are tilting at windmills - the consequence of blind 'survival' instincts in all of us, and a false belief in "freedom".

Entrenched war and poverty have been around long before AGW. Roll Eyes

thegreatdivide wrote on Oct 13^th, 2022 at 12:02pm:

The Greens aren't responsible for the slow rollout of renewables and grid upgrade, that's the fault of the conflicted private sector and government collusion with the private sector, when the whole energy sector should be nationalized to eliminate the contradictions of private companies seeking fossil profits.

Germany has theoretically enough solar and wind. Over 100GW and they can't make it work. SO that is not a slow rollout its a fault design feature of renewables. Grin

thegreatdivide wrote on Oct 13^th, 2022 at 12:02pm:

New coal is a stop gap for them, during the transition.

Nope. But keep wishing. India has 62GW of coal planned.

"Some 176 gigawatts of coal capacity was under construction in 2021, and more than half of that was being built in China"

https://www.newscientist.com/article/2317274-china-is-building-more-than-half-of...

Wow Some transition. Grin

thegreatdivide wrote on Oct 13^th, 2022 at 12:02pm:

Of course, neoliberal governments are conflicted, and colluding with private fossil industry interests, as noted above.

More BS from you as noted above. Wink

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thegreatdivide

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Re: The fallacy of the Greens
Reply #349 - Oct 13^th, 2022 at 1:12pm

lee wrote on Oct 13^th, 2022 at 12:30pm:

And only 195 Countries (including the Vatican and Palestine)

But of course that doesn't mean they actually believe. China and India building more coal plant tells you more about what they "believe". Wink

Both have stated achievement of zero emissions by 2060...regardless of what they "believe:"

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Does he have a radio programme in remote WA?

Fraud. He is noting the failure of governments to build sufficient renewables BEFORE closing coal (regardless of his own "beliefs")

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Oh its a debate now. Not a proven fact. Thanks for that.

AGW-CO2 is a debate, but governments are signed up to transition to green.

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So no-one you know has said climate doesn't change. Thanks for that as well.

You fraud: you know "climate change" is short-hand for AGW-CO2, in this context.

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Entrenched war and poverty have been around long before AGW. Roll Eyes

And I explained why H L Mencken is wrong; you can discard him as a supporter of your stance re the possibilities of government.

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Germany has theoretically enough solar and wind. Over 100GW and they can't make it work. SO that is not a slow rollout its a fault design feature of renewables. Grin

Germany would be bullet proof, if it had sufficient inter-transmission with Africa.

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"Some 176 gigawatts of coal capacity was under construction in 2021, and more than half of that was being built in China"

https://www.newscientist.com/article/2317274-china-is-building-more-than-half-of...

Wow Some transition.

India (and China) want to bring per capita electricity output up to Western levels; the transition will require increases in both fossils and renewables, to achieve that, because renewables storage technology (base load) is expensive.

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More BS from you as noted above. Wink

Blind neoliberal ideologues like you - and Mencken - are incapable of defining BS.

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lee

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Re: The fallacy of the Greens
Reply #350 - Oct 13^th, 2022 at 1:47pm

thegreatdivide wrote on Oct 13^th, 2022 at 1:12pm:

Both have stated achievement of zero emissions by 2060...regardless of what they "believe:"

Exactly.

thegreatdivide wrote on Oct 13^th, 2022 at 1:12pm:

Fraud.

Really? Where have I denied climate changes. Be specific. Grin

thegreatdivide wrote on Oct 13^th, 2022 at 1:12pm:

AGW-CO2 is a debate, but governments are signed up to transition to green.

Even though the debate is not settled. How bizarre. Roll Eyes

thegreatdivide wrote on Oct 13^th, 2022 at 1:12pm:

You fraud: you know "climate change" is short-hand for AGW-CO2, in this context.

Nope. You can't just make phrases to be specific when it suits you. Grin

thegreatdivide wrote on Oct 13^th, 2022 at 1:12pm:

And I explained why H L Mencken is wrong; you can discard him as a supporter of your stance re the possibilities of government.

Nope. Why is he wrong? Hobgoblins like AGW, COVID (now showing 1% death rate). No worse that the 'flu.

thegreatdivide wrote on Oct 13^th, 2022 at 1:12pm:

Germany would be bullet proof, if it had sufficient inter-transmission with Africa.

Africa doesn't have the infrastructure and likely never will. But theoretically it should already be near bullet proof. Average usage 50GW, Only peak at 100GW should perhaps stretch it. So how many times peak should be catered for? Roll Eyes

thegreatdivide wrote on Oct 13^th, 2022 at 1:12pm:

India (and China) want to bring per capita electricity output up to Western levels; the transition will require increases in both fossils and renewables, to achieve that, because renewables storage technology (base load) is expensive.

Wow. Look at that. Storage is expensive. And India and China get a free pass upo to Western levels of emissions per capita. So gross emissions don't count. Good to know. Grin

thegreatdivide wrote on Oct 13^th, 2022 at 1:12pm:

Blind neoliberal ideologues like you - and Mencken - are incapable of defining BS.

You are just too stupid. Bye

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thegreatdivide

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Re: The fallacy of the Greens
Reply #351 - Oct 13^th, 2022 at 2:31pm

lee wrote on Oct 13^th, 2022 at 1:47pm:

Exactly.

Because they want to pay lip service to the IPCC consensus ....and they have a problem with fossil air pollution (regardless of CO2 emissions)

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Really? Where have I denied climate changes. Be specific.

Fraud; the debate (and Hadley) refers to AGW-CO2 denial. , not climate change denial.

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Even though the debate is not settled. How bizarre. Roll Eyes

Governments accept the IPCC position as settled, even if you don't.

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Nope. You can't just make phrases to be specific when it suits you.

Addressed above, fraud (or simpleton, take your pick)

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Why is he wrong? Hobgoblins like AGW, COVID (now showing 1% death rate). No worse that the 'flu.

"fearful citizens led to safety, by an endless series of hobgoblins, most of them imaginary."

War and poverty, the mainstay of mankind, are not imaginary. So you don't get to say a desire for a green transition is "imaginary", just because governments and the citizens ARE led by "hobgoblins", and acquiesce in war and poverty.

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Africa doesn't have the infrastructure and likely never will.

Why? Because your greedy competitive neoliberal 'survival of the fittest " ideology mandates it?

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But theoretically it should already be near bullet proof. Average usage 50GW, Only peak at 100GW should perhaps stretch it. So how many times peak should be catered for? Roll Eyes

Whatever is needed: Africa and nuclear if necessary, can deal with peaks.

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Wow. Look at that. Storage is expensive. And India and China get a free pass up to Western levels of emissions per capita. So gross emissions don't count. Good to know.

No they don't; the Western world is too greedy to share its wealth, so Asia is increasing electricity output ASAP to lift per capita GDP, using BOTH fossils and renewables. Eventually, they will close the fossil plants AFTER they have sufficient capacity to ensure renewables storage is sufficient (with thousands of GWs of renewables then being available, with storade).

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You are just too stupid. Bye

Another blind neoliberal conservative bites the dust.

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lee

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Re: The fallacy of the Greens
Reply #352 - Oct 13^th, 2022 at 2:43pm

thegreatdivide wrote on Oct 13^th, 2022 at 2:31pm:

Fraud; the debate (and Hadley) refers to AGW-CO2 denial. , not climate change denial.

So where have I denied that increasing CO2 might have an effect? The earth is not a greenhouse. How much exactly has CO2 caused temperatures to increase? Why was there global cooling in the 1970's at a time of increasing CO2?

The models are not science. There are too many parameters and they are running hot, so what is the magical number for CO2?

thegreatdivide wrote on Oct 13^th, 2022 at 2:31pm:

Governments accept the IPCC position as settled, even if you don't.

Oh dear. The science is settled? then tell us how much warming is due to CO2. Be specific. Roll Eyes

thegreatdivide wrote on Oct 13^th, 2022 at 2:31pm:

Addressed above, fraud (or simpleton, take your pick)

You should try a shovel you can't use a pick. Roll Eyes

thegreatdivide wrote on Oct 13^th, 2022 at 2:31pm:

War and poverty, the mainstay of mankind, are not imaginary.

True. And they have always been with us. However it is fear of war that makes it less certain.

"The head of the U.N. weather agency says the war in Ukraine “may be seen as a blessing” from a climate perspective because it is accelerating the development of and investment in green energies over the longer term — even though fossil fuels are being used at a time of high demand now."

https://apnews.com/article/russia-ukraine-business-united-nations-weather-ece2a9...

thegreatdivide wrote on Oct 13^th, 2022 at 2:31pm:

Why? Because your greedy competitive neoliberal 'survival of the fittest " ideology mandates it?

No petal because the green dream is already turning to a nightmare.

thegreatdivide wrote on Oct 13^th, 2022 at 2:31pm:

Whatever is needed: Africa and nuclear if necessary, can deal with peaks.

So the green dream again. You can't even get past the notion that it won't work as evidenced by Germany. Roll Eyes

thegreatdivide wrote on Oct 13^th, 2022 at 2:31pm:

Another blind neoliberal conservative bites the dust.

Oh dear. You lost the debate again. Grin

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Re: The fallacy of the Greens
Reply #353 - Oct 14^th, 2022 at 11:20am

lee wrote on Oct 13^th, 2022 at 2:43pm:

So where have I denied that increasing CO2 might have an effect?

Unlike you, Hadley says the real issue is building sufficient solar/wind plus storage, BEFORE closing coal.

You deny that's the issue.

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Oh dear. The science is settled? then tell us how much warming is due to CO2. Be specific. Roll Eyes

Still whistling in the wind?

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You should try a shovel you can't use a pick. Roll Eyes

simpleton or fraud....; Hadley is no friend of the Left.

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True. And they have always been with us. However it is fear of war that makes it less certain.

BS; and in the age of MAD, how desperate will Putin become?

Meanwhile Conservative "freedom" ideologues typified by monstrosities like Alex Jones, who is still shouting his "freedom" filth, are responsible for double crimes against the relatives of the Sandy Hook massacre - the original murders and then loosing his hellish followers on the relatives.

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"The head of the U.N. weather agency says the war in Ukraine “may be seen as a blessing” from a climate perspective because it is accelerating the development of and investment in green energies over the longer term — even though fossil fuels are being used at a time of high demand now."

https://apnews.com/article/russia-ukraine-business-united-nations-weather-ece2a9...

Pathetic; he should be made to live in the front lines in Ukraine. And the UN itself was crippled from its inception with its absurd concept of 'legal war', supposedly defensive.... a case of instinct overruling rationality.

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No petal because the green dream is already turning to a nightmare.

..because of resistance from your evil neoliberal delusional "freedom" ideology. The world could transition to green for free and in an orderly fashion, if the greedy profit-seeking private sector was pissed off by governments, as it should be in the case of power generation for 8 billion people.

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So the green dream again. You can't even get past the notion that it won't work as evidenced by Germany. Roll Eyes

Germany is madly closing its nuclear capacity BEFORE
100% renewable capacity has been achieved; and it remains to be seen if Germany, a cold country, CAN be 100% renewable, unlike Oz where it's laughably simple to go 100% on solar and wind....provided the greedy private sector is pissed off by government.

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Oh dear. You lost the debate again. Grin

I thought you had gone; all self-interested, "freedom" goons refuse to look at the instinct - versus rationality - impelling their sick "freedom" ideology, and eventually slink off, defeated.

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Re: The fallacy of the Greens
Reply #354 - Oct 14^th, 2022 at 12:06pm

thegreatdivide wrote on Oct 14^th, 2022 at 11:20am:

Unlike you, Hadley says the real issue is building sufficient solar/wind plus storage, BEFORE closing coal.

You deny that's the issue.

It is the only issue. And seeing as wind and solar are a no go due to intermittency they shouldn't close coal. Roll Eyes

thegreatdivide wrote on Oct 14^th, 2022 at 11:20am:

Still whistling in the wind?

Still having your "beliefs"? Roll Eyes

thegreatdivide wrote on Oct 14^th, 2022 at 11:20am:

Hadley is no friend of the Left.

And I have never claimed he was. Why do you insist on making thins up? Roll Eyes

thegreatdivide wrote on Oct 14^th, 2022 at 11:20am:

BS; and in the age of MAD, how desperate will Putin become?

How long is a piece of string? Roll Eyes

thegreatdivide wrote on Oct 14^th, 2022 at 11:20am:

Pathetic; he should be made to live in the front lines in Ukraine. And the UN itself was crippled from its inception with its absurd concept of 'legal war', supposedly defensive.... a case of instinct overruling rationality.

And yet the UN is ruled by the left. Roll Eyes

thegreatdivide wrote on Oct 14^th, 2022 at 11:20am:

The world could transition to green for free and in an orderly fashion, if the greedy profit-seeking private sector was pissed off by governments, as it should be in the case of power generation for 8 billion people.

Do you now start singing "Kumbaya"? Roll Eyes

thegreatdivide wrote on Oct 14^th, 2022 at 11:20am:

Germany is madly closing its nuclear capacity BEFORE
100% renewable capacity has been achieved; and it remains to be seen if Germany, a cold country, CAN be 100% renewable, unlike Oz where it's laughably simple to go 100% on solar and wind....provided the greedy private sector is pissed off by government.

Theoretically they have enough for 100% renewables. 110GW of renewables. Peak usage 100GW. Roll Eyes

thegreatdivide wrote on Oct 14^th, 2022 at 11:20am:

I thought you had gone; all self-interested, "freedom" goons refuse to look at the instinct - versus rationality - impelling their sick "freedom" ideology, and eventually slink off, defeated.

Poor petal. So obtuse and doesn't know it. Thought I had left and so thought he would do a little grave digging. Grin

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Re: The fallacy of the Greens
Reply #355 - Oct 14^th, 2022 at 12:28pm

lee wrote on Oct 14^th, 2022 at 12:06pm:

thegreatdivide wrote on Oct 14^th, 2022 at 11:20am:

Unlike you, Hadley says the real issue is building sufficient solar/wind plus storage, BEFORE closing coal.

You deny that's the issue.

It is the only issue. And seeing as wind and solar are a no go due to intermittency they shouldn't close coal. Roll Eyes

Storage...

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And I have never claimed he was. Why do you insist on making thins up? Roll Eyes

You deny the capacity of OZ to go 100% renewable. Hadley doesn't deny that capacity.

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How long is a piece of string? Roll Eyes

Regardless, your sick "fear of war" proposition has so far resulted in thousands of deaths and billions in property damage in Ukraine.

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And yet the UN is ruled by the left. Roll Eyes

Wrong, the UN's ideals are Leftist, but it's ruled by Rightist instinct (hence the crippling veto in the UNSC).

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Do you now start singing "Kumbaya"? Roll Eyes

Co-operation at the level of the UN is required to engender sustainable prosperity in all nations....as Keynes knew, which is why he presented his 'clearing union' concept at the Bretton Wood meetings in 1944.

Rejected by sick "freedom" ideologues.

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Theoretically they have enough for 100% renewables. 110GW of renewables. Peak usage 100GW. Roll Eyes

So ...you need double the peak? Even with nuclear backup?....which stupid Germans are closing while France next door is increasing nuclear...

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Poor petal. So obtuse and doesn't know it. Thought I had left and so thought he would do a little grave digging. Grin

I'm here to reveal your sick instinct-based "freedom" ideology.

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Re: The fallacy of the Greens
Reply #356 - Oct 14^th, 2022 at 12:46pm

thegreatdivide wrote on Oct 14^th, 2022 at 12:28pm:

Storage...

And never mind the cost. Dams cost money, flood the environment behind the dam wails, and can also cause flooding.

Big Batteries 100MW for $90 million. How much for a n umber of 12GW batteries? Which are themselves toxic. Roll Eyes

.
thegreatdivide wrote on Oct 14^th, 2022 at 12:28pm:

You deny the capacity of OZ to go 100% renewable. Hadley doesn't deny that capacity.

Good for him. He is apparently a shock jock, no apparent science at all - like you. Roll Eyes

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thegreatdivide wrote on Oct 14^th, 2022 at 12:28pm:

Regardless, your sick "fear of war" proposition has so far resulted in thousands of deaths and billions in property damage in Ukraine.

Yes. And many deaths over 1,000's of years. Roll Eyes

thegreatdivide wrote on Oct 14^th, 2022 at 12:28pm:

Wrong, the UN's ideals are Leftist, but it's ruled by Rightist instinct (hence the crippling veto in the UNSC).

Rubbish. There are more leftist governments than rightist. So China and Russia are now not leftist? Shocked

thegreatdivide wrote on Oct 14^th, 2022 at 12:28pm:

Co-operation at the level of the UN is required to engender sustainable prosperity in all nations....as Keynes knew, which is why he presented his 'clearing union' concept at the Bretton Wood meetings in 1944.

It can't be done by sequestering western wealth. That only makes all countries poor. Roll Eyes

thegreatdivide wrote on Oct 14^th, 2022 at 12:28pm:

So ...you need double the peak?

Oh only double? So that when the wind doesn't blow you get twice nothing or when the sun don't shine... Roll Eyes

thegreatdivide wrote on Oct 14^th, 2022 at 12:28pm:

I'm here to reveal your sick instinct-based "freedom" ideology.

And yet youy can't even convince yourself. Wombling about. Roll Eyes

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Re: The fallacy of the Greens
Reply #357 - Oct 14^th, 2022 at 3:46pm

lee wrote on Oct 14^th, 2022 at 12:46pm:

thegreatdivide wrote on Oct 14^th, 2022 at 12:28pm:

Storage...

And never mind the cost.

Cost is not a substantive issue for a currency-issuer (government).

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Dams cost money,

Wrong, they cost resources, the money is not an issue for the currency-issuer (hence the need for nationalization of the power sector for an orderly transition with the private sector shut out of it.

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flood the environment behind the dam wails, and can also cause flooding.

Compared with the environmental damage from the filthy fossil industry....

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Big Batteries 100MW for $90 million. How much for a n umber of 12GW batteries? Which are themselves toxic. Roll Eyes

Dams aren't toxic., and a 100% recycling industry must be developed to deal with toxic waste.

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Good for him. He is apparently a shock jock, no apparent science at all - like you. Roll Eyes

He is certainly a loud-mouth shock-jock who nevertheless wants to appeal to the majority of his conservative audience who want to transition to green.

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Yes. And many deaths over 1,000's of years. Roll Eyes

It's time to end the madness, an eternal sacrifice to a God of War.....did someone mention "homo sapiens"....

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Rubbish. There are more leftist governments than rightist. So China and Russia are now not leftist?

Around 50 of the delegates from smaller countries voted to withhold the veto power from the 'big 5' in the UNSC in 1946, but they were defeated by great power politics (you guessed it: irrational instinct-driven "freedom" politics. Whether China and Russia are 'Leftist' is moot.

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It can't be done by sequestering western wealth. That only makes all countries poor. Roll Eyes

Keynes 'clearing union' idea didn't sequester western wealth, it enabled economic development in all nations by avoiding trade and currency wars,

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Oh only double? So that when the wind doesn't blow you get twice nothing or when the sun don't shine... Roll Eyes

a windless, sunless world for months on end? ...
How much nuclear will be needed is to be determined.

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And yet youy can't even convince yourself. Wombling about. Roll Eyes

oh... I know your sick instinct-driven irrational "freedom" ideology is the real problem in the world at present.

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Re: The fallacy of the Greens
Reply #358 - Oct 14^th, 2022 at 5:12pm

thegreatdivide wrote on Oct 14^th, 2022 at 3:46pm:

Cost is not a substantive issue for a currency-issuer (government).

All this based on a theory that has never been substantively tested. What could possibly go wrong? Grin

thegreatdivide wrote on Oct 14^th, 2022 at 3:46pm:

Wrong, they cost resources, the money is not an issue for the currency-issuer (hence the need for nationalization of the power sector for an orderly transition with the private sector shut out of it.

More of your MMT bullschist. Grin

thegreatdivide wrote on Oct 14^th, 2022 at 3:46pm:

Compared with the environmental damage from the filthy fossil industry....

You mean ongoing floods are good for people? How about the environmental damage of lithium mining? Grin

thegreatdivide wrote on Oct 14^th, 2022 at 3:46pm:

Dams aren't toxic., and a 100% recycling industry must be developed to deal with toxic waste.

100% recycling of toxic waste? What the hell are you going to turn it into? So no science, no maths and no clue. Roll Eyes

thegreatdivide wrote on Oct 14^th, 2022 at 3:46pm:

He is certainly a loud-mouth shock-jock who nevertheless wants to appeal to the majority of his conservative audience who want to transition to green.

Now all you have to do is show your science is correct. Grin

thegreatdivide wrote on Oct 14^th, 2022 at 3:46pm:

It's time to end the madness, an eternal sacrifice to a God of War.....did someone mention "homo sapiens"....

While ever there are evil men (women) in the world there will be wars. Roll Eyes

thegreatdivide wrote on Oct 14^th, 2022 at 3:46pm:

Around 50 of the delegates from smaller countries voted to withhold the veto power from the 'big 5' in the UNSC in 1946, but they were defeated by great power politics (you guessed it: irrational instinct-driven "freedom" politics.

And nothing about their politics. Grin

thegreatdivide wrote on Oct 14^th, 2022 at 3:46pm:

Keynes 'clearing union' idea didn't sequester western wealth, it enabled economic development in all nations by avoiding trade and currency wars,

That was then. Now it is all about Climate Reparations. The money to come from those evil fossil fuel countries. The same Fossil fuel that gave them advancement, schooling, medicines. Roll Eyes

thegreatdivide wrote on Oct 14^th, 2022 at 3:46pm:

a windless, sunless world for months on end? ...

How about 7 days. And only because world electricity is a no go. So the need is to look regionally. Roll Eyes

thegreatdivide wrote on Oct 14^th, 2022 at 3:46pm:

oh... I know your sick instinct-driven irrational "freedom" ideology is the real problem in the world at present.

So it is not about energy security for anyone? Thanks for that. Grin

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thegreatdivide

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Re: The fallacy of the Greens
Reply #359 - Oct 14^th, 2022 at 9:24pm

lee wrote on Oct 14^th, 2022 at 5:12pm:

thegreatdivide wrote on Oct 14^th, 2022 at 3:46pm:

Cost is not a substantive issue for a currency-issuer (government).

All this based on a theory that has never been substantively tested. What could possibly go wrong?

Nothing.

btw, note the Oz government is now on the hook - to private money lenders - to the tune of c. $1 trillion, around $350 billion of which is directly the consequence of government borrowing during the covid enforced lockdowns.

So now citizens are up for a double whammy, as interest rates rise, further enriching the private money lenders. as governments (like private borrowers) are forced to pay ever higher interest repayments on the debt.

Sheer madness; the whole evil system should collapse of its own accord soon, as governments around the world begin falling over - while enriching private money lenders - under unsustainable public debt.

Quote:

More of your MMT bullschist.

Resources, not money are needed by the currency-issuer to build things. Your evil private greed-based system of debt-based money creation is THE barrier to a better world.

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You mean ongoing floods are good for people? How about the environmental damage of lithium mining?

Dumb mode again: dams are not ongoing floods;
and clean mining practices are a matter of good planning and execution.

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100% recycling of toxic waste? What the hell are you going to turn it into? So no science, no maths and no clue. Roll Eyes

If it can't be recycled (like nuclear waste), then safe storage. Oz could safely store all the world's toxic waste, but there are many other sites around the world.

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Now all you have to do is show your science is correct]

Nah.....I'll leave that to others, I want to see Dr. Saul Griffiths' plans for 'Rewiring Australia' (google) come to fruition.

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While ever there are evil men (women) in the world there will be wars. Roll Eyes

Not so fast; whoever insists on national sovereignty (and the absurd doctrine of "legal" war) above rule of international law, is complicit in the endless madness.

Ouch....

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And nothing about their politics.

Instinct-driven irrationality is beyond politics.

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That was then. Now it is all about Climate Reparations. The money to come from those evil fossil fuel countries. The same Fossil fuel that gave them advancement, schooling, medicines. Roll Eyes

Er ...Trump's trade wars (ongoing) affecting friend and foe alike, are now...

Quote:

How about 7 days. And only because world electricity is a no go. So the need is to look regionally. Roll Eyes

Singapore has plans to import Pilbara sunshine, Japan to import Oz green hydrogen (ammonia) to produce green electricity.

The possibility of the northern half of Oz being shrouded by cloud, and the entire Oz coastline being windless for 7 days is ......vanishingly small.

Quote:

So it is not about energy security for anyone? Thanks for that.

Dumb mode again....

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« Last Edit: Oct 14^th, 2022 at 9:34pm by thegreatdivide »

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