Australian Politics Forum - Electric Vehicle take-up/transition.

lee Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 21049 Gender:	Re: Electric Vehicle take-up/transition. Reply #60 - Feb 5^th, 2021 at 3:52pm Frank wrote on Feb 5^th, 2021 at 12:59pm: The solar panels should go into the roads from which electric cars could access it. Already tried and failed. Too much tyre rubber, grime etc.
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Frank

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Re: Electric Vehicle take-up/transition.
Reply #61 - Feb 5^th, 2021 at 5:24pm

lee wrote on Feb 5^th, 2021 at 3:52pm:

Frank wrote on Feb 5^th, 2021 at 12:59pm:

The solar panels should go into the roads from which electric cars could access it.

Already tried and failed. Too much tyre rubber, grime etc.

Oh dear.

So it's coal, gas, nuclear power stations in the country to salve the conscience of city drivers in priuses and leafs and other 'electric' vehicles.

'Electric' is treated like a magic thing. The fetish is like that ocasio cortez bimbo - all look at moi and no dam clue.

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Estragon: I can’t go on like this.
Vladimir: That’s what you think.

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Wolseley Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 1453 Sydney Gender:	Re: Electric Vehicle take-up/transition. Reply #62 - Feb 5^th, 2021 at 7:19pm At present, electric cars are either too small, or too expensive, or both, for me to want to have one.
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Sprintcyclist

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Re: Electric Vehicle take-up/transition.
Reply #63 - Feb 7^th, 2021 at 2:47pm

Wolseley wrote on Feb 5^th, 2021 at 7:19pm:

At present, electric cars are either too small, or too expensive, or both, for me to want to have one.

Just today I was thinking an electric car might be right for our next one.
I put $30 of fuel in the camry on Friday and $40 today. it was pretty empty on friday and is full now.
How much would that cost in an electric car ?

I commute 20 kms a day ot the bus stop and back.
Our regular weekend drives are 150 kms for the round trip.

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Modern Classic Right Wing

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Prime Minister for Canyons

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Re: Electric Vehicle take-up/transition.
Reply #64 - Feb 7^th, 2021 at 8:02pm

Sprintcyclist wrote on Feb 7^th, 2021 at 2:47pm:

Wolseley wrote on Feb 5^th, 2021 at 7:19pm:

At present, electric cars are either too small, or too expensive, or both, for me to want to have one.

Just today I was thinking an electric car might be right for our next one.
I put $30 of fuel in the camry on Friday and $40 today. it was pretty empty on friday and is full now.
How much would that cost in an electric car ?

I commute 20 kms a day ot the bus stop and back.
Our regular weekend drives are 150 kms for the round trip.

Siounds perfect for an electric car to be honest

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In a time of universal deceit — telling the truth is a revolutionary act.

No evidence whatsoever it can be attributed to George Orwell or Eric Arthur Blair (in fact the same guy)

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Prime Minister for Canyons

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Re: Electric Vehicle take-up/transition.
Reply #65 - Feb 7^th, 2021 at 8:02pm

Frank wrote on Feb 5^th, 2021 at 5:24pm:

lee wrote on Feb 5^th, 2021 at 3:52pm:

Frank wrote on Feb 5^th, 2021 at 12:59pm:

The solar panels should go into the roads from which electric cars could access it.

Already tried and failed. Too much tyre rubber, grime etc.

Oh dear.

So it's coal, gas, nuclear power stations in the country to salve the conscience of city drivers in priuses and leafs and other 'electric' vehicles.

'Electric' is treated like a magic thing. The fetish is like that ocasio cortez bimbo - all look at moi and no dam clue.

Its almost as though theres no where else to whack solar panels

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In a time of universal deceit — telling the truth is a revolutionary act.

No evidence whatsoever it can be attributed to George Orwell or Eric Arthur Blair (in fact the same guy)

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Sprintcyclist

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Re: Electric Vehicle take-up/transition.
Reply #66 - Feb 7^th, 2021 at 8:29pm

Prime Minister for Canyons wrote on Feb 7^th, 2021 at 8:02pm:

Sprintcyclist wrote on Feb 7^th, 2021 at 2:47pm:

Wolseley wrote on Feb 5^th, 2021 at 7:19pm:

At present, electric cars are either too small, or too expensive, or both, for me to want to have one.

Just today I was thinking an electric car might be right for our next one.
I put $30 of fuel in the camry on Friday and $40 today. it was pretty empty on friday and is full now.
How much would that cost in an electric car ?

I commute 20 kms a day ot the bus stop and back.
Our regular weekend drives are 150 kms for the round trip.

Siounds perfect for an electric car to be honest

pretty much my thinking too.
Bet you could not put $70 of electricity in to an electric car over a weekend.
Still it'll last me 2 weeks easily

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Modern Classic Right Wing

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Laugh till you cry

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Re: Electric Vehicle take-up/transition.
Reply #67 - Feb 7^th, 2021 at 8:32pm

issuevoter wrote on Jan 4^th, 2021 at 10:54pm:

I am convinced. Having read all the condemnations of renewable energy and electric vehicles by the pundits on Ozpolitic, I realise neither will ever get over their immense teething problems. This proves that coal and petrol are better options. Anyway, it was all just a conspiracy by the Left in support of the Great Reset of the world economy.

It was a Geopolitical plot by pedophiles in pizza parlors to get rid of Dopey Donald Trump without a Trump recycle option.

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Please don't thank me. Effusive fawning and obeisance of disciples, mendicants, and foot-kissers embarrass me.

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Mix_Master

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Re: Electric Vehicle take-up/transition.
Reply #68 - Feb 19^th, 2021 at 7:30am

Just read an interesting article on Fairfax/Nine, about the transition from fossil fuels to renewables, based on supply/demand cost drivers.

I found this bit interesting...

Quote:

"Ten years from now we will be in another energy world. EVs will undercut combustion cars on purchase price by 2023 to 2024."

*laughs* Not here, while we have a Coalition Government in power, they won't!.

I imagine that we will be amongst the last countries to fully transition to EVs, as manufacturers "dump" the last of their ICE vehicles here...

https://www.theage.com.au/business/markets/the-oil-industry-is-facing-its-bigges...

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Gordon

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Re: Electric Vehicle take-up/transition.
Reply #69 - Feb 19^th, 2021 at 7:42am

Mix_Master wrote on Feb 19^th, 2021 at 7:30am:

Just read an interesting article on Fairfax/Nine, about the transition from fossil fuels to renewables, based on supply/demand cost drivers.

I found this bit interesting...

Quote:

"Ten years from now we will be in another energy world. EVs will undercut combustion cars on purchase price by 2023 to 2024."

*laughs* Not here, while we have a Coalition Government in power, they won't!.

I imagine that we will be amongst the last countries to fully transition to EVs, as manufacturers "dump" the last of their ICE vehicles here...

https://www.theage.com.au/business/markets/the-oil-industry-is-facing-its-bigges...

Do you expect Scott to buy you a car?

I'll buy one when the manufacturers offer one that suits my needs and stacks up financially.

There are plenty of privately installed commercial charging stations in my hood, I just need the right car.

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IBI

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Mix_Master

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Re: Electric Vehicle take-up/transition.
Reply #70 - Feb 19^th, 2021 at 8:16am

Gordon wrote on Feb 19^th, 2021 at 7:42am:

Mix_Master wrote on Feb 19^th, 2021 at 7:30am:

Just read an interesting article on Fairfax/Nine, about the transition from fossil fuels to renewables, based on supply/demand cost drivers.

I found this bit interesting...

Quote:

"Ten years from now we will be in another energy world. EVs will undercut combustion cars on purchase price by 2023 to 2024."

*laughs* Not here, while we have a Coalition Government in power, they won't!.

I imagine that we will be amongst the last countries to fully transition to EVs, as manufacturers "dump" the last of their ICE vehicles here...

https://www.theage.com.au/business/markets/the-oil-industry-is-facing-its-bigges...

Do you expect Scott to buy you a car?

I'll buy one when the manufacturers offer one that suits my needs and stacks up financially.

There are plenty of privately installed commercial charging stations in my hood, I just need the right car.

No.

I'm referring to existent policy settings, which do nothing to encourage uptake of EVs (by, for example, lowering tax imposts et al.)

5 years past, you could make a case that certain existent policy settings were probably warranted, to"protect" local manufacturing (given that there are no locally-manufactured EVs).

Now, though, you'd think that if EVs are going to be "price competitive" with similarly-specced ICE vehicles, certain incentives need to be provided, so consumers are more prepared to buy the things.

Given past history, I doubt that the Coalition would be likely to provide those incentives.

And if a base model Nissan Leaf (the cheapest EV on the market) still costs in excess of $50K in a few years' time, I won't be buying one either.

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Gordon

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Re: Electric Vehicle take-up/transition.
Reply #71 - Feb 19^th, 2021 at 9:24am

Mix_Master wrote on Feb 19^th, 2021 at 8:16am:

Gordon wrote on Feb 19^th, 2021 at 7:42am:

Mix_Master wrote on Feb 19^th, 2021 at 7:30am:

Just read an interesting article on Fairfax/Nine, about the transition from fossil fuels to renewables, based on supply/demand cost drivers.

I found this bit interesting...

Quote:

"Ten years from now we will be in another energy world. EVs will undercut combustion cars on purchase price by 2023 to 2024."

*laughs* Not here, while we have a Coalition Government in power, they won't!.

I imagine that we will be amongst the last countries to fully transition to EVs, as manufacturers "dump" the last of their ICE vehicles here...

https://www.theage.com.au/business/markets/the-oil-industry-is-facing-its-bigges...

Do you expect Scott to buy you a car?

I'll buy one when the manufacturers offer one that suits my needs and stacks up financially.

There are plenty of privately installed commercial charging stations in my hood, I just need the right car.

No.

I'm referring to existent policy settings, which do nothing to encourage uptake of EVs (by, for example, lowering tax imposts et al.)

5 years past, you could make a case that certain existent policy settings were probably warranted, to"protect" local manufacturing (given that there are no locally-manufactured EVs).

Now, though, you'd think that if EVs are going to be "price competitive" with similarly-specced ICE vehicles, certain incentives need to be provided, so consumers are more prepared to buy the things.

Given past history, I doubt that the Coalition would be likely to provide those incentives.

And if a base model Nissan Leaf (the cheapest EV on the market) still costs in excess of $50K in a few years' time, I won't be buying one either.

Sorry, I don't see why international car manufacturers should receive a tax break on one model and not another.

Toyota is about to launch Hybrid Camry but we're not getting the plug in version. Do you know why?

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Mix_Master

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Re: Electric Vehicle take-up/transition.
Reply #72 - Feb 19^th, 2021 at 12:07pm

Gordon wrote on Feb 19^th, 2021 at 9:24am:

Mix_Master wrote on Feb 19^th, 2021 at 8:16am:

Gordon wrote on Feb 19^th, 2021 at 7:42am:

Mix_Master wrote on Feb 19^th, 2021 at 7:30am:

Just read an interesting article on Fairfax/Nine, about the transition from fossil fuels to renewables, based on supply/demand cost drivers.

I found this bit interesting...

Quote:

"Ten years from now we will be in another energy world. EVs will undercut combustion cars on purchase price by 2023 to 2024."

*laughs* Not here, while we have a Coalition Government in power, they won't!.

I imagine that we will be amongst the last countries to fully transition to EVs, as manufacturers "dump" the last of their ICE vehicles here...

https://www.theage.com.au/business/markets/the-oil-industry-is-facing-its-bigges...

Do you expect Scott to buy you a car?

I'll buy one when the manufacturers offer one that suits my needs and stacks up financially.

There are plenty of privately installed commercial charging stations in my hood, I just need the right car.

No.

I'm referring to existent policy settings, which do nothing to encourage uptake of EVs (by, for example, lowering tax imposts et al.)

5 years past, you could make a case that certain existent policy settings were probably warranted, to"protect" local manufacturing (given that there are no locally-manufactured EVs).

Now, though, you'd think that if EVs are going to be "price competitive" with similarly-specced ICE vehicles, certain incentives need to be provided, so consumers are more prepared to buy the things.

Given past history, I doubt that the Coalition would be likely to provide those incentives.

And if a base model Nissan Leaf (the cheapest EV on the market) still costs in excess of $50K in a few years' time, I won't be buying one either.

Sorry, I don't see why international car manufacturers should receive a tax break on one model and not another.

Toyota is about to launch Hybrid Camry but we're not getting the plug in version. Do you know why?

No.

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Gordon

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Re: Electric Vehicle take-up/transition.
Reply #73 - Feb 19^th, 2021 at 12:35pm

Mix_Master wrote on Feb 19^th, 2021 at 12:07pm:

Gordon wrote on Feb 19^th, 2021 at 9:24am:

Mix_Master wrote on Feb 19^th, 2021 at 8:16am:

Gordon wrote on Feb 19^th, 2021 at 7:42am:

Mix_Master wrote on Feb 19^th, 2021 at 7:30am:

Just read an interesting article on Fairfax/Nine, about the transition from fossil fuels to renewables, based on supply/demand cost drivers.

I found this bit interesting...

Quote:

"Ten years from now we will be in another energy world. EVs will undercut combustion cars on purchase price by 2023 to 2024."

*laughs* Not here, while we have a Coalition Government in power, they won't!.

I imagine that we will be amongst the last countries to fully transition to EVs, as manufacturers "dump" the last of their ICE vehicles here...

https://www.theage.com.au/business/markets/the-oil-industry-is-facing-its-bigges...

Do you expect Scott to buy you a car?

I'll buy one when the manufacturers offer one that suits my needs and stacks up financially.

There are plenty of privately installed commercial charging stations in my hood, I just need the right car.

No.

I'm referring to existent policy settings, which do nothing to encourage uptake of EVs (by, for example, lowering tax imposts et al.)

5 years past, you could make a case that certain existent policy settings were probably warranted, to"protect" local manufacturing (given that there are no locally-manufactured EVs).

Now, though, you'd think that if EVs are going to be "price competitive" with similarly-specced ICE vehicles, certain incentives need to be provided, so consumers are more prepared to buy the things.

Given past history, I doubt that the Coalition would be likely to provide those incentives.

And if a base model Nissan Leaf (the cheapest EV on the market) still costs in excess of $50K in a few years' time, I won't be buying one either.

Sorry, I don't see why international car manufacturers should receive a tax break on one model and not another.

Toyota is about to launch Hybrid Camry but we're not getting the plug in version. Do you know why?

No.

For the same reason we didn't get the Prius or RAV plugin.
Toyota knows their onions and the $ just won't work.

The good news is the RAV4 plugin sales in USA have by a long way exceeded expectations so in a year or 2 they'll re evaluate our market.

Australia is a very hard car market because we have low volumes but very high choice of brand and models.

Also, don't you think subsidising lekky cars is a tax break for the wealthy?

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Mix_Master

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Re: Electric Vehicle take-up/transition.
Reply #74 - Feb 19^th, 2021 at 12:52pm

Does any of it really matter?

Do nothing, and let the manufacturers charge way over the odds under the current tax settings, and people will continue to buy ICE vehicles. And, of course, get stung if/when oil does go North of $USD150 per barrel.

Or "help" the adoption rates by providing incentives to purchase (via reduced taxes payable on those vehicles). As I understand it, they do exactly that in the U.S, by providing Federal Tax rebates for those who purchase EVs and PHEVs.

https://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/taxevb.shtml

If, via a reduction in various taxes, the cost of an EV becomes comparable to an equivalent ICE vehicle, is it then "just" a tax break for the wealthy? Would only wealthy people buy the equivalent - and equivalently priced - ICE vehicle?

Sure. I get the "why should one vehicle be "subsidised", and not the other. Primarily, to encourage that shift toward an in-principle lower emissions private vehicle fleet, perhaps?

Because sure as eggs, if the current situation - including policy settings - remains the same, the "penetration" of EVs in this market won't rise beyond the current 0.5% of total sales in a hurry...

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