A very good summing up of the thorium dream:-

Thorium enthusiasts are fringe techno-fantasists who have convinced a bunch of other people that thorium is a silver bullet. It's not even a thorium bullet.

Thorium is like trying to get to a mirage in the desert - it just stays always far away.

It will be interesting to see how India goes as they have been trying for probably about 30 years and they have lots of thorium.

Years ago the USA built a successful thorium reactor but it was neglected thru lack of interest compared to the uranium lobby. If the USA assists India with the design then India might well be successful.


Hope springs eternal



Michael Barnard, Chief Strategist, TFIE Strategy Inc.
Updated Apr 27, 2017

No one is remotely close to a viable commercial product that would pass regulatory controls in multiple countries.

Thorium reactors would make it easier to create weapons grade radioactive material, produce long-lived radioactive waste, haven't resolved technical challenges for decades and would be likely more expensive than nuclear, which is already one of the most expensive forms of generation on the planet.




Thorium doesn't solve the proliferation problem, and in fact makes it worse.
The authors note that, from previous experiments to separate protactinium-233, it is feasible that just 1.6 tonnes of thorium metal would be enough to produce 8kg of uranium-233 which is the minimum amount required for a nuclear weapon. Using the process identified in their paper, they add that this could be done "in less than a year."

https://phys.org/news/2012-12-thorium-proliferation-nuclear-wonder-fuel.html#jCp


Not a Waste Solution
Proponents claim that thorium fuel significantly reduces the volume, weight, and long-term radiotoxicity of spent fuel. Using thorium in a nuclear reactor creates radioactive waste that proponents claim would only have to be isolated from the environment for 500 years, as opposed to the irradiated uranium-only fuel that remains dangerous for hundreds of thousands of years. This claim is wrong. The fission of thorium creates long-lived fission products like technetium-99 (half-life over 200,000 years). While the mix of fission products is somewhat different than with uranium fuel, the same range of fission products is created. With or without reprocessing, these fission products have to be disposed of in a geologic repository.

https://cleantechnica.com/2012/09/11/why-thorium-nuclear-isnt-featured-on-cleant...


Ongoing Technical Problems
Research and development of thorium fuel has been undertaken in Germany, India, Japan, Russia, the UK, and the U.S. for more than half a century. Besides remote fuel fabrication and issues at the front end of the fuel cycle, thorium-U-233 breeder reactors produce fuel (“breed”) much more slowly than uranium-plutonium-239 breeders. This leads to technical complications. India is sometimes cited as the country that has successfully developed thorium fuel. In fact, India has been trying to develop a thorium breeder fuel cycle for decades but has not yet done so commercially.

https://cleantechnica.com/2012/09/11/why-thorium-nuclear-isnt-featured-on-cleant...


Not an Economic Solution
Thorium may be abundant and possess certain technical advantages, but it does not mean that it is economical. Compared to uranium, the thorium fuel cycle is likely to be even more costly. In a once-through mode, it will need both uranium enrichment (or plutonium separation) and thorium target rod production. In a breeder configuration, it will need reprocessing, which is costly.

https://cleantechnica.com/2012/09/11/why-thorium-nuclear-isnt-featured-on-cleant...

The intellectually handicapped Tweedledee comes out of the shadows to display her shocking ignorance and inability to understand anything. What a dumb coot she is but then she is a Greeny Tesla Fan Girl.

I can't be bothered with specious comments from Greeny types that express personal jealousy and gross ignorance and that are simply there to make a noise but say nothing.

But as always what Tweedledee wants to see is another unsafe Tesla prang and there are plenty of them.


Tesla S looks like it just came out of the showroom. Pity 'bout the lousy brakes.

BH in a tech section ?? Lost your way again BH ?

You mean a prang with no front anymore. These unsafe Tesla piles of junk have big acceleration but lousy brakes and that's why there are so many front end prangs.

Also anyone who hits the accelerator instead of the brakes is in for a crashing stop.

But BH as you like unsafe Tesla prangs


Slightly damaged Tesla S. Wonder why it caught fire ?

Uranium’s Ugly Step-Sister ? Sounds like a Greeny!!!! The thorium fantasy sort of reminds you of the Greenies' electric car in every garage fantasy.






Uranium’s Ugly Step-Sister
By Rick Mills | More Articles by Rick Mills



Most junior resource investors know uranium, and many got in on the action when NexGen Energy and Fission Uranium made their discoveries in the Athabasca Basin of Saskatchewan, the region with the highest grades of uranium in the world.

Smart, or lucky, shareholders of NXE enjoyed a cumulative share price rise of around 430% between 2014 and 2016, while Fission Energy – famous for its Patterson Lake South property that yielded the open-pittable Triple R deposit – jumped from 91 cents in November 2013 to $1.62 a share in April 2014, for a gain of 78%.

Uranium is the fuel needed to create the nuclear reaction that can either create nuclear power or nuclear weapons.

To make nuclear fuel from uranium ore, the uranium is first extracted from the rock, then enriched with the uranium-235 isotope, before being made into pellets that are loaded into assemblies of nuclear fuel rods.

In a nuclear reactor, several hundred fuel assemblies containing thousands of small pellets of uranium oxide are in the reactor core. The nuclear chain reaction that creates energy starts when U-235 splits or “fissions”, which produces a lot of heat in a controlled environment.

In a conventional nuclear reactor, the pressurized water reactor, fuel rods containing uranium pellets are placed in water. Visualized as a giant kettle, the heat generated from the pellets boils water to create steam, which turns turbines to generate electricity.

But the downside of conventional nuclear power stations is the nuclear reaction also produces plutonium, which is highly radioactive, and other wastes, causing a problem for disposal. Strontium-90 and cesium-137, contained in nuclear waste, have half-lives of about 30 years, but plutonium-239 takes 24,000 years to fully decay.

When it works well, the nuclear reaction is an efficient form of energy creation. One uranium pellet weighing just 6 grams is said to produce the same amount of energy as a tonne of coal. But it also leaves a lot of radioactive waste that needs to be incinerated, encased in concrete, or buried deep underground for centuries.

When nuclear power goes wrong, the fallout is catastrophic. Nuclear meltdowns like Chernobyl in Russia, Three Mile Island in the US, and Fukushima in Japan are burned into the collective consciousness and serve as constant reminders of the dangers of nuclear power that drive the anti-nuke movement.

While nuclear energy generation will never be without risks, proponents argue these are manageable and small compared to the risk of increased greenhouse gas emissions caused by the continued burning of fossil fuels for power, that are warming the planet.

For this reason, nuclear is always in the mix of energies required to make the transformation from an oil-based economy to one where renewable and nuclear energies make up a larger proportion of our global electricity.



Some scientists believe thorium is key to developing a new version of cleaner, safer nuclear power. So why hasn’t thorium entered the popular and investor lexicon like uranium has? The silvery-white metal has a fascinating history, and despite taking a back seat to uranium as the primary nuclear fuel, it is making a comeback.

This is the story of thorium, the wünder-fuel that wasn’t, but could be.

History
Thorium is named after Thor, the Norse god of thunder. It was first discovered in 1815 by Jöns Jakob Berzelius, a Swedish chemist, but a few years later it was determined that the mineral was actually yttrium phosphate.

In 1828 Berzelius was given a sample of a black mineral found on an island off the coast of Norway by Hans Esmark, a Norwegian mineralogist.

The mineral contained several known elements including lead, tin, iron, manganese and uranium, but 60% was an unknown substance that was subsequently named thorite.

Thorium was first isolated by mixing thorium oxide with carbon, creating thorium chloride. When reacted with potassium, the result was thorium and potassium chloride, according to Chemicool.

It took another 70 years for scientists to realize that thorium was radioactive. The discovery was made by Gerhard Schmidt, a German chemist, and Marie Cure, a Polish physicist, who are often credited with its discovery.

Thorium oxide (ThO2) has the highest melting point of all oxides (3300°C) so it’s not surprising that its early applications were in lantern mantles, arc-light lamps, welding electrodes and heat-resistant ceramics. Thorium oxide is also used in camera lenses and scientific instruments.


Read the rest of the depressing reality of thorium here

https://www.sharecafe.com.au/2018/10/03/uraniums-ugly-step-sister/

Bobby,

do what you like.

Your thread is so full of spurious uninformed trash from those who don't have a clue but just want to make a noise that it is beyond repair.

This discussion is clearly TECHNICAL and this is the TECHNICAL SECTION.

Already this one here is full of actual factual articles describing the practical technical difficulties of swinging over to thorium that it leaves yours lost in space.

The dreamers who have not got a clue think thorium is the answer to a nation's prayer, a bit like the lulus who think there should be an electric car in every garage (Bill Shorten's NBN Mark 2!!!!).

Now some more useful factual discussion.

This is a fair but mild mannered discussion explaining why thorium is where it is - neglected.



Are Thorium Reactors the Future of Nuclear Energy?
Amanda Kay - November 26th, 2018

thorium reactors
Thorium reactors hold promise as an alternative for uranium in the nuclear energy sector, but are they really a viable option?

The world’s energy needs are expected to skyrocket thanks to population growth and higher demand from developing nations, making thorium reactors increasingly appealing.

While uranium-driven reactors are being built in large quantities around the world, these reactors are not without drawbacks. Nuclear meltdowns remain a concern, and uranium has some negative connotations due to its association with weapons. Some also claim that uranium’s low price makes it an unsustainable option, despite predictions of a price rally.

Thorium, on the other hand, is seen by some as a less dangerous, more environmentally friendly path. So how does thorium play into the future of global energy?


What is thorium?
Thorium is a slightly radioactive metal that occurs in rocks and soils. It is more abundant in nature than uranium and is fertile rather than fissile, meaning it can be converted into fissile material through radiation. It is meant to be used alongside fissile materials like recycled plutonium and uranium.

Despite its benefits, using thorium as a primary source of nuclear energy is challenging. The World Nuclear Association notes that extracting latent energy is still difficult to do in a cost-effective manner, and research into refinement technology will be needed if thorium is to be turned into a viable source.

That said, it’s worth noting that the question of whether thorium reactors work for energy production was answered in 2013, when privately owned Norwegian company Thor Energy began using thorium to produce power at its Halden test reactor in Norway. “It is the fundamental first step in the thorium evolution,” Thor Energy CEO Oystein Asphjell told Reuters at the time.

How thorium works
Thorium can’t split to make a nuclear chain reaction like uranium. In scientific terms, it isn’t fissile. However, if it is bombarded by neutrons from a fuel that is fissile — like uranium-235 or plutonium-239 — it is converted into uranium-233. The process creates energy and is self-sustaining after it begins; fission of uranium-233 turns more thorium nearby into the same nuclear fuel.

There are many more complex processes involved, but this relationship between thorium and fissile materials serves as the foundation for thorium reactor technology.

Thorium vs. uranium
It’s important to understand the differences between uranium and thorium when considering developments in nuclear energy. Here are a few key ways they differ.

Cost and efficiency
One reason thorium is an interesting alternative to uranium is that it is cheaper and more abundant. Thorium is also used more efficiently in the reaction process — thorium inputs are almost completely used up during a nuclear reaction, meaning waste is reduced to a minimum. That is especially important considering the longevity of nuclear waste in the environment.

Weapons and safety
The dangers of uranium — widely publicized in the wake of the Fukushima disaster in 2011 — are a key reason why experts are giving thorium reactors serious consideration. As thorium is not fissile on its own, reactions could be stopped in case of emergency, according to Forbes.

Thorium is considered a strong choice for non-proliferation when it comes to nuclear weapons, but it is also important to note that there have been occasions in history where nuclear weapons based off of thorium have been detonated. While that is a risk, the nature of these weapons makes them difficult to handle and easy to detect.

As a result, the use of thorium reactors could allow countries like Iran and North Korea to benefit from nuclear power by minimizing concerns that they are secretly developing nuclear weapons.

Thorium and uranium have an interesting relationship in that they are complements and competitors to each other. Thorium can be used together with conventional uranium-based nuclear power generation, meaning a thriving thorium industry would not necessarily make uranium obsolete.

Read the rest of this mild mannered discussion here

https://investingnews.com/daily/resource-investing/energy-investing/uranium-inve...

Thorium remains tantalizingly out of reach despite, particularly India, trying for about 40 years.

While uranium reactors are now off the shelf thorium reactors are still in the Lab stage with no end in sight.

This well researched article is quite comprehensive and explains lots of aspects and why thorium won't hit the headlines anytime soon.







Thorium
(Updated February 2017)

Thorium is more abundant in nature than uranium.

It is fertile rather than fissile, and can only be used as a fuel in conjunction with a fissile material such as recycled plutonium.

Thorium fuels can breed fissile uranium-233 to be used in various kinds of nuclear reactors.

Molten salt reactors are well suited to thorium fuel, as normal fuel fabrication is avoided.

The use of thorium as a new primary energy source has been a tantalizing prospect for many years. Extracting its latent energy value in a cost-effective manner remains a challenge, and will require considerable R&D investment. This is occurring preeminently in China, with modest US support.

Nature and sources of thorium
Thorium is a naturally-occurring, slightly radioactive metal discovered in 1828 by the Swedish chemist Jons Jakob Berzelius, who named it after Thor, the Norse god of thunder. It is found in small amounts in most rocks and soils, where it is about three times more abundant than uranium.

Soil contains an average of around 6 parts per million (ppm) of thorium. Thorium is very insoluble, which is why it is plentiful in sands but not in seawater, in contrast to uranium.Thorium exists in nature in a single isotopic form – Th-232 – which decays very slowly (its half-life is about three times the age of the Earth).

The decay chains of natural thorium and uranium give rise to minute traces of Th-228, Th-230 and Th-234, but the presence of these in mass terms is negligible. It decays eventually to lead-208.

When pure, thorium is a silvery white metal that retains its lustre for several months. However, when it is contaminated with the oxide, thorium slowly tarnishes in air, becoming grey and eventually black. When heated in air, thorium metal ignites and burns brilliantly with a white light.

Thorium oxide (ThO2), also called thoria, has one of the highest melting points of all oxides (3300°C) and so it has found applications in light bulb elements, lantern mantles, arc-light lamps, welding electrodes and heat-resistant ceramics.

Glass containing thorium oxide has both a high refractive index and wavelength dispersion, and is used in high quality lenses for cameras and scientific instruments.

Thorium oxide (ThO2) is relatively inert and does not oxidise further, unlike UO2. It has higher thermal conductivity and lower thermal expansion than UO2, as well as a much higher melting point. In nuclear fuel, fission gas release is much lower than in UO2.

The most common source of thorium is the rare earth phosphate mineral, monazite, which contains up to about 12% thorium phosphate, but 6-7% on average.

Monazite is found in igneous and other rocks but the richest concentrations are in placer deposits, concentrated by wave and current action with other heavy minerals. World monazite resources are estimated to be about 16 million tonnes, 12 Mt of which are in heavy mineral sands deposits on the south and east coasts of India.

There are substantial deposits in several other countries (see Table below). Thorium recovery from monazite usually involves leaching with sodium hydroxide at 140°C followed by a complex process to precipitate pure ThO2.

Thorite (ThSiO4) is another common thorium mineral. A large vein deposit of thorium and rare earth metals is in Idaho.

The IAEA-NEA publication Uranium 2014: Resources, Production and Demand (often referred to as the Red Book) gives a figure of 6.2 million tonnes of total known and estimated resources.

Data for reasonably assured and inferred resources recoverable at a cost of $80/kg Th or less are given in the table below, excluding some less-certain Asian figures. Some of the figures are based on assumptions and surrogate data for mineral sands (monazite x assumed Th content), not direct geological data in the same way as most mineral resources.

Read the informative rest here

http://www.world-nuclear.org/information-library/current-and-future-generation/t...

Still a fair way away juliar.