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« Created by: Aussie on: Apr 1st, 2018 at 7:33pm »

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Relationship to the truth (Read 94584 times)
lee
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Re: Relationship to the truth
Reply #420 - Apr 24th, 2018 at 9:29pm
 
Jovial Monk wrote on Apr 24th, 2018 at 9:18pm:
Have you had your sense of humor surgically removed, Lees? Or were you born without one?


Oh. Is that what it was? I thought if it was humour you would have admitted it straight away when queried.

More like you tried to bluff your way through. The relationship to the truth? Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin


Your first comment when queried?

Jovial Monk wrote on Apr 24th, 2018 at 7:43pm:
Doesn’t mean it is wrong,



Now you admit it was wrong and apparently you knew it was wrong.
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Re: Relationship to the truth
Reply #421 - Apr 24th, 2018 at 9:38pm
 
I said there was a glitch and it will be reworked by morning our time. I posted another graph with it—no intent to misrepresent.

Misrepresent is what you do constantly.

You have no sense of humor, obviously. Why not bugger out of this thread?
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Jovial Monk
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Re: Relationship to the truth
Reply #422 - Apr 24th, 2018 at 9:42pm
 
Not only is the Gulf Stream slowing, there are problems at the southern end of it, caused by increased melting of Antarctic glaciers:

Quote:
Abstract
Strong heat loss and brine release during sea ice formation in coastal polynyas act to cool and salinify waters on the Antarctic continental shelf. Polynya activity thus both limits the ocean heat flux to the Antarctic Ice Sheet and promotes formation of Dense Shelf Water (DSW), the precursor to Antarctic Bottom Water. However, despite the presence of strong polynyas, DSW is not formed on the Sabrina Coast in East Antarctica and in the Amundsen Sea in West Antarctica. Using a simple ocean model driven by observed forcing, we show that freshwater input from basal melt of ice shelves partially offsets the salt flux by sea ice formation in polynyas found in both regions, preventing full-depth convection and formation of DSW. In the absence of deep convection, warm water that reaches the continental shelf in the bottom layer does not lose much heat to the atmosphere and is thus available to drive the rapid basal melt observed at the Totten Ice Shelf on the Sabrina Coast and at the Dotson and Getz ice shelves in the Amundsen Sea. Our results suggest that increased glacial meltwater input in a warming climate will both reduce Antarctic Bottom Water formation and trigger increased mass loss from the Antarctic Ice Sheet, with consequences for the global overturning circulation and sea level rise.


http://advances.sciencemag.org/content/4/4/eaap9467

For the educationally and humor challenged and afraid, like Lees, there is a simple language treatment of it in the Washington Post:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/energy-environment/wp/2018/04/23/one-of-the-...
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Re: Relationship to the truth
Reply #423 - Apr 24th, 2018 at 9:51pm
 
Jovial Monk wrote on Apr 24th, 2018 at 9:42pm:
Using a simple ocean model driven by observed forcing



Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin

Oh Wapo? even funnier.
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Re: Relationship to the truth
Reply #424 - Apr 24th, 2018 at 9:54pm
 
It is probably too advanced for you but do have a go.
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lee
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Re: Relationship to the truth
Reply #425 - Apr 24th, 2018 at 9:56pm
 
Jovial Monk wrote on Apr 24th, 2018 at 9:38pm:
I said there was a glitch and it will be reworked by morning our time. I posted another graph with it—no intent to misrepresent.

Misrepresent is what you do constantly.

You have no sense of humor, obviously. Why not bugger out of this thread?


yes. After you had been queried and you responded "it didn't mean it was wrong"

Once you were queried would have been the time to own up to your "joke".

Mendaciousness is not humorous.
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Re: Relationship to the truth
Reply #426 - Apr 24th, 2018 at 9:58pm
 
Jovial Monk wrote on Apr 24th, 2018 at 9:54pm:
It is probably too advanced for you but do have a go.



I did. Models all the way down. Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin
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Re: Relationship to the truth
Reply #427 - Apr 24th, 2018 at 10:07pm
 
Jovial Monk wrote on Apr 24th, 2018 at 9:42pm:
there are problems at the southern end of it, caused by increased melting of Antarctic glaciers:



Actually; I looked at WaPo. They might actually be onto something.

"One limitation with the current study, however, is that although the researchers have found that deep water is not forming in two key Antarctic regions, they cannot say when a change in these regions occurred. Measurements do not go back far enough for that, study author Silvano said. Thus, it’s possible that deep water formation in these regions shut off a long time ago, well before the modern period of intense climate warming. That would make it harder to pin current events on human-caused climate change."

But that is exactly what you claimed. Disproved by the very study you touted.

Woow. WaPo shoots for goal AND Scores. Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin
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Re: Relationship to the truth
Reply #428 - Apr 24th, 2018 at 10:30pm
 
Cannot say, yet. Scientists are kind of precise in their language,  but they would not have written the paper if they didn’t think it was happening the way they describe.

I think I will put you back on ignore.
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Re: Relationship to the truth
Reply #429 - Apr 24th, 2018 at 10:38pm
 
Jovial Monk wrote on Apr 24th, 2018 at 10:30pm:
Cannot say, yet. Scientists are kind of precise in their language,  but they would not have written the paper if they didn’t think it was happening the way they describe.



Yep And what I quoted is what the scientist said.

"author Silvano said" - WaPo

"Alessandro Silvano" lead Author of the Paper.

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Re: Relationship to the truth
Reply #430 - Apr 24th, 2018 at 11:01pm
 
The Washington Post article:

Quote:
The new research, based on ocean measurements off the coast of East Antarctica, shows that melting Antarctic glaciers are indeed freshening the ocean around them. And this, in turn, is blocking a process in which cold and salty ocean water sinks below the sea surface in winter, forming “the densest water on the Earth,” in the words of study lead author Alessandro Silvano, a researcher with the University of Tasmania in Hobart.

This Antarctic bottom water has stopped forming in two key regions of Antarctica, the research shows — the West Antarctic coast and the coast around the enormous Totten glacier in East Antarctica.

These are two of Antarctica’s fastest-melting regions, and no wonder: When cold surface water no longer sinks into the depths, a deeper layer of warm ocean water can travel across the continental shelf and reach the bases of glaciers, retaining its heat as the cold waters remain above. This warmer water then rapidly melts the glaciers and the large floating ice shelves connected to them.

In other words, the melting of Antarctica’s glaciers appears to be triggering a “feedback” loop in which that melting, through its effect on the oceans, triggers still more melting. The melting water stratifies the ocean column, with cold fresh water trapped at the surface and warmer water sitting below. Then, the lower layer melts glaciers and creates still more melt water — not to mention rising seas as glaciers lose mass.

“What we found is not only a modeling study but is something that we observed in the real ocean,” said Silvano, who conducted the research in Science Advances with colleagues from several other institutions in Australia and Japan. “Our study shows for the first time actual evidence of this mechanism. Our study shows that it is already happening.”

Hansen said that “this study provides a nice small-scale example of processes that we talk about in our paper.”


So, this is something that was observed.

Quote:
Rahmstorf  pointed to additional studies that also suggest Antarctic bottom water formation is changing. In one case, a 2017 study relying on measurements from the Southern Indian Ocean, where Antarctic bottom water travels after leaving the Southern Ocean, found that this deep water has been growing fresher over time, especially in the past decade.

One limitation with the current study, however, is that although the researchers have found that deep water is not forming in two key Antarctic regions, they cannot say when a change in these regions occurred. Measurements do not go back far enough for that, study author Silvano said. Thus, it’s possible that deep water formation in these regions shut off a long time ago, well before the modern period of intense climate warming. That would make it harder to pin current events on human-caused climate change.

Still, the mechanism detected by the study, in which freshening water from glaciers inhibits the sinking of colder waters at the surface, would presumably continue to apply.


https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/energy-environment/wp/2018/04/23/one-of-the-...

Yeah, it will continue and continue to weaken that oceanic overturning. At some time it could well be possible to find out how long this has been happening.

The globe is warming and severe consequences are beginning to become apparent. The Beast from the East and the three North Easters that hit the New England coast this year are minor. Stopping or significantly slowing the overturning circulation is going to cause a lot more damage. The circulation and bringing up of nutrients forms the basis of the pyramid of life in the oceans, something to think about. Save the wales, yeah.
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« Last Edit: Apr 25th, 2018 at 6:28am by Jovial Monk »  

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Re: Relationship to the truth
Reply #431 - Apr 25th, 2018 at 6:55am
 
The corrected graph:

...

Hmmm shows less ice extent than in 2017.
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Re: Relationship to the truth
Reply #432 - Apr 25th, 2018 at 9:20am
 
Copy of a post I made in the Dubyne MRB, put it here for safekeeping:

Quote:
Here we see charts of temperatures rising, polar ice melting, articles on the AMOC slowing etc and what are we discussing? A fantasy ice age happening now.

What a complete waste of a board.

Bobby, resign as Mod and let FD appoint a decent Mod. You are so wrapped up in the Dubyne ice age nonsense you are incapable of moderating properly!

You will be able to post your fantasy videos as always but they should not be the only thing discussed here!
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« Last Edit: Apr 25th, 2018 at 10:01am by Jovial Monk »  

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Re: Relationship to the truth
Reply #433 - Apr 25th, 2018 at 11:58am
 
Jovial Monk wrote on Apr 24th, 2018 at 11:01pm:
So, this is something that was observed.



Yes. They just don't know about the past.

Jovial Monk wrote on Apr 24th, 2018 at 11:01pm:
Thus, it’s possible that deep water formation in these regions shut off a long time ago, well before the modern period of intense climate warming. That would make it harder to pin current events on human-caused climate change.



Jovial Monk wrote on Apr 24th, 2018 at 11:01pm:
Still, the mechanism detected by the study, in which freshening water from glaciers inhibits the sinking of colder waters at the surface, would  presumably continue to apply.



Ah, An assumption. Wink
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Re: Relationship to the truth
Reply #434 - Apr 25th, 2018 at 12:00pm
 
Something that can be monitored.
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