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« Created by: Aussie on: Apr 1st, 2018 at 7:33pm »

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Relationship to the truth (Read 74077 times)
Jovial Monk
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Re: Relationship to the truth
Reply #390 - Apr 24th, 2018 at 4:03pm
 
Nah, you can see the cold water pooling south of Greenland. The high Atlantic Ocean temperatures of the east coast of the US, the marked rise in sea levels there and so on.

We will see how the hurricanes/TCs head for England in future NH summers.
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Jovial Monk
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Re: Relationship to the truth
Reply #391 - Apr 24th, 2018 at 4:04pm
 
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lee
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Re: Relationship to the truth
Reply #392 - Apr 24th, 2018 at 4:11pm
 
Jovial Monk wrote on Apr 24th, 2018 at 4:03pm:
the marked rise in sea levels there


Really? Oh you mean the eastern US subsidence. You do know subsidence is not Sea Level Rise  it is land falling in relation to the ocean. WinkJovial Monk wrote on Apr 24th, 2018 at 4:03pm:
We will see how the hurricanes/TCs head for England in future NH summers.


Another NostraDumbArse.
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Jovial Monk
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Re: Relationship to the truth
Reply #393 - Apr 24th, 2018 at 4:14pm
 
Yes, some of the eastern US is subsiding for various reasons, excessive pumping up of water from quaifers and isostatic adjustment to the disappearance of the great ice sheets of the last major ice age.

But the sea levels off the East coast of the US are also rising and the slowing of the AMOC is a major part of that.
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lee
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Re: Relationship to the truth
Reply #394 - Apr 24th, 2018 at 4:26pm
 
Jovial Monk wrote on Apr 24th, 2018 at 4:14pm:
But the sea levels off the East coast of the US are also rising



is that using the Global Isostatic Adjustments? Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin

Jovial Monk wrote on Apr 24th, 2018 at 4:14pm:
and the slowing of the AMOC is a major part of that.



Is not happening. Read the observations. Roll Eyes
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Jovial Monk
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Reply #395 - Apr 24th, 2018 at 4:45pm
 
It clearly is slowing.
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lee
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Re: Relationship to the truth
Reply #396 - Apr 24th, 2018 at 5:01pm
 
Jovial Monk wrote on Apr 24th, 2018 at 4:45pm:
It clearly is slowing.


Of course it is, it's thousands of years old; mindlessly going round and round. It has to get tired at some point. Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin

I will leave you with your computer game generated stories.

Bye.
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Jovial Monk
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Re: Relationship to the truth
Reply #397 - Apr 24th, 2018 at 5:08pm
 
RAPID project—direct measurement of the AMOC:

http://moocs.southampton.ac.uk/oceans/2014/02/17/the-rapid-project-monitoring-th...

Quote:
A mooring array known as the RAPID-MOCHA array, has been deployed at 26°N between the Bahamas and the Canary Islands and has provided continuous measurements of the strength and variability of this circulation since 2004. The AMOC and its component parts are monitored by combining a transatlantic array of moored instruments with submarine-cable based measurements of the Gulf Stream and satellite derived Ekman transport (Fig. 1 and 2).


For “Ekman transport” read the Broeker article cited above.

Quote:
The time series has recently been extended to October 2012 (Fig. 3) and the results show a downward trend since 2004. From April 2008 to March 2012 the AMOC was an average of 2.7 Sv weaker than in the first four years of observation (95% confidence that the reduction is 0.3 Sv or more). Ekman transport reduced by about 0.2 Sv and the Gulf Stream by 0.5 Sv but most of the change (2.0 Sv) is due to the mid-ocean geostrophic flow. The change of the mid-ocean geostrophic flow represents a strengthening of the subtropical gyre above the thermocline.

The increased southward flow of warm waters is balanced by a decrease in the southward flow of Lower North Atlantic Deep Water below 3000 m. The transport of Lower North Atlantic Deep Water slowed by 7% per year (95% confidence that the rate of slowing is greater than 2.5% per year).


Direct measurement shows its slowing. Oops.
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Jovial Monk
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Re: Relationship to the truth
Reply #398 - Apr 24th, 2018 at 5:09pm
 
So the articles on the clearly slowing AMOC will repay close reading.
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Re: Relationship to the truth
Reply #399 - Apr 24th, 2018 at 5:18pm
 
Jovial Monk wrote on Apr 24th, 2018 at 5:08pm:
http://moocs.southampton.ac.uk/oceans/2014/02/17/the-rapid-project-monitoring-th...



Jovial Monk wrote on Apr 24th, 2018 at 5:09pm:
So the articles on the clearly slowing AMOC will repay close reading.



Or Not

Quote:
Oceanographers have put a stethoscope on the coursing circulatory system of the Atlantic Ocean, and they have found a skittish pulse that’s surprisingly strong in the waters east of Greenland—discoveries that should improve climate models.

The powerful currents known as the Atlantic meridional overturning circulation (AMOC) are an engine in Earth’s climate. The AMOC’s shallower limbs—which include the Gulf Stream—move warm water from the tropics northward, warming Western Europe. In the north, the waters cool and sink, forming deeper limbs that transport the cold water back south—and sequester anthropogenic carbon in the process. This overturning is why the AMOC is sometimes called the Atlantic conveyor belt.

Last week, at the American Geophysical Union’s Ocean Sciences meeting here, scientists presented the first data from an array of instruments moored in the subpolar North Atlantic. The observations reveal unexpected eddies and strong variability in the AMOC currents. They also show that the currents east of Greenland contribute the most to the total AMOC flow. Climate models, on the other hand, have emphasized the currents west of Greenland in the Labrador Sea. “We’re showing the shortcomings of climate models,” says Susan Lozier, a physical oceanographer at Duke University in Durham, North Carolina, who leads the $35 million, seven-nation project known as the Overturning in the Subpolar North Atlantic Program (OSNAP).


http://www.sciencemag.org/news/2018/02/ocean-array-alters-view-atlantic-conveyor...


From February - more data. Nothing about the AMOC slowing.

Don't trust the models. Wink
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Jovial Monk
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Re: Relationship to the truth
Reply #400 - Apr 24th, 2018 at 5:25pm
 
But the AMOC is slowing. That is clear. See the cold pool off S Greenland.

The eddies you should read up more about
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Jovial Monk
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Re: Relationship to the truth
Reply #401 - Apr 24th, 2018 at 5:33pm
 
And Booby joins roach in totally misreading what Barnacle said. Deliberate misrepresentation more like.

IF the sun goes into a GSM, sometime or other, TSI will reduce and that will reduce temperatures for a little while, even before the GSM ends AGW will have recovered the temperature drop in continue warming the globe.

Booby has seen temperature graphs but doesn’t take any notice, believing Liar Dubyne that some local cold weather, or some hail, or a blue aurora or something means that we are in an ice age. Melbourne might suffer 40+°C temperatures next summer but the dupe will still say “ice age!”
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Re: Relationship to the truth
Reply #402 - Apr 24th, 2018 at 5:50pm
 
Jovial Monk wrote on Apr 24th, 2018 at 10:30am:
And roach posts to show how stupid he is.

According to roach Barnacle admits “. . . it's the SUN not CO2 that controls temperature here.  Who'd a thunk it eh? ”

A 0.13°C cooling from a drop in TSI due to a grand solar minimum, recovered in TWO years by AGW.

Yeah, BIG influence the sun, not.



yeah take the sun away and watch temperatures ZOOM. Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin
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Re: Relationship to the truth
Reply #403 - Apr 24th, 2018 at 5:55pm
 
Jovial Monk wrote on Apr 24th, 2018 at 5:25pm:
But the AMOC is slowing. That is clear. See the cold pool off S Greenland.


Let's see summer approaches. Glacial melt as normal. Cold pool of water. Doesn't sound like anything out of the ordinary.
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Re: Relationship to the truth
Reply #404 - Apr 24th, 2018 at 5:58pm
 
And, of course, Lees ads to the nonsense. Nobody is talking about taking the sun. The point is—the sun is a very stable emitter of radiation. Even the occasional dip, a GSM, causes only minor fluctuation in temperatures here.

AGW has so far raised temperatures nearly 10 times the amount even a Maunder Minimum would cool things by.

1.2°C temperature increase v a 0.13°C cooling from a Maunder Minimum level GSM.

AGW has raised temperatures by over twice as much as things cooled in the Little Ice Age, 1.2°C versus a 0.5°C cooler times in the LIA.

That puts the sun in perspective I reckon!
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