Australian Politics Forum - Islam is protective of Christianity.

Grendel

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Re: Islam is protective of Christianity.
Reply #15 - Jan 16^th, 2018 at 7:41am

aussie is honestly deluded. Roll Eyes

Let’s reflect on Muslim nations’ Christian genocide

The Australian
April 3, 2017

Our nation’s newest refugees will soon celebrate their first Easter in Australia. It is a momentous occasion for those who survived Islamic State’s genocide of Christians and have been given a new life in our country.

Yet many Western nations refuse to recognise asylum for Christians fleeing genocide and persecution.

Typically, politicians cite the principle of non-discriminatory immigration to justify policies that result in discrimination against Christian victims of genocide. It is morally reprehensible.

Last year, the US Congress declared that the Islamic State persecution of Christians and other minorities constituted genocide. The term was coined by Raphael Lemkin who recognised the slaughter of Armenians in 1915 as the first genocide of the 20th century. He wrote: “It [genocide] happened to the Armenians and after the Armenians, Hitler took action.”

It is estimated that the Ottomans massacred between 800,000 and 1.5 million Armenians in the genocide, most of whom were Christians. To commemorate its centenary, Pope Francis said: “The first genocide of the 20th century struck your own Armenian people, the first Christian nation.”

Turkey’s Islamist government continues to deny the genocide took place.

Western nations bear a special responsibility to shelter Christians fleeing genocide because they suffer systemic oppression in many Islamic states.

According to not-for-profit group Open Doors,

last year was the worst on record for the persecution of Christians since it began reporting 25 years ago. Each month, an estimated 322 Christians are killed for their faith and 772 suffer serious violence. In addition, 214 Christian churches and properties are destroyed.

Of the 10 countries ranked worst for Christian persecution, nine are Muslim majority nations.

The other is communist state North Korea.

Islamist persecution of Christians is intensifying in African and Southeast Asian countries. Last year, Boko Haram changed its general strategy from attacking anyone classified as an infidel to targeting Christians. Its new leader, Abu Musab al-Barnawi, aligned the group with Islamic State and vowed to “blow up every Church” and “kill every Christian”.

The Islamist tactics used to annihilate Christians extend beyond bombs and guns. Muslim organisations in Nigeria that run camps for people displaced by Islamic State are reserving aid for Muslims only. Christian Bishop William Naga reported to Open Doors UK that: “They will give food to the refugees, but if you are a Christian they will not give you food. They will openly tell you that the relief is not for Christians.”

Christians are also under threat in Southeast Asia where militant Islamism is on the rise. The trial of Jakarta’s Christian governor Basuki Ahok for blasphemy (that is, “insulting” the Koran) is a case in point. On Friday, about 15,000 Muslims marched to demand Ahok be jailed. Associated Press recorded a protester who said: “There’s no room for kaffir to lead in this nation.”

The Hungarian government recognises the persistence of global Christian persecution and the West’s responsibility to become assertive in redressing it. The conservative government led by Viktor Orban reports that

four out of five people killed for their faith are Christians.

It has responded by establishing the world’s first state department dedicated to addressing Christian persecution.

In Australia, Labor and Greens politicians responded negatively to news that the Liberal Coalition has provided asylum to several thousand Christians fleeing Islamic State genocide in its dedicated program for Syrian refugees. Greens senator Nick McKim created a distinction between selecting on “genuine need” and religion in relation to the Syrian intake, and described the latter as “disgusting”. He might need a briefing on the reality of jihadist genocide.

Labor legal affairs spokesman Mark Dreyfus reportedly “expressed concern about the prospect of persecuted Syrian refugees being selected for resettlement in Australia on the basis of religion”. He stated that more Muslims have been killed in the Middle Eastern conflict than members of any other religion.

Some leftists seem wilfully ignorant about Islamic State’s deliberate genocide of Christians and the systemic persecution of Christian people in Muslim majority nations. Thanks to ignorance, rank immorality, Christophobia or some combination thereof, the Western left has denied fair asylum to Christian victims of jihadist genocide for more than a decade.

Majed El Shafie, the Founder of One Free World International, highlighted the problem with “political correctness” in Canada’s humanitarian programs. He stated that among those accepted as refugees from Iraq and Syria: “Most if not all are Muslim Sunnis.” Fox News reported that the Obama administration’s Syrian refugee program produced a questionable result. Of the 10,801 refugees accepted from Syria in 2016, almost all — 10,722 — were Muslims. Only 56 were Christians.

pt1

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Grendel

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Re: Islam is protective of Christianity.
Reply #16 - Jan 16^th, 2018 at 7:41am

pt 2.

NGOs have reported that Christians suffering persecution across the globe face “double discrimination”. They are persecuted for their faith and subsequently experience discrimination in United Nations refugee camps and facilities. The Barnabas Fund charity rescues Christians from Syria and reports they are at risk of violence in “Muslim-majority shelters”.

Catholic Archbishop Jacques Hindo stated that Christians were denied aid in Syria. He told the Vatican’s news service: “We have a hundred Assyrian families who have taken refuge, but they have received no assistance either from the Red Crescent or Syrian government aid workers, perhaps because they are Christians. The UN High Commissioner for Refugees is nowhere to be seen.”

In a column for Fox News, Nina Shea, the director of the Hudson Institute Centre for Religious Freedom, relayed that Christians in Lebanon are too afraid to enter UNHCR refugee camps in the region. There are many emerging reports of Muslim attacks on Christian asylum seekers in transit to Europe and in refugee camps across the continent.

The refugees who escaped the Islamist genocide of Christians to find safe haven in Australia should be welcomed. The coming Easter ritual focuses on the persecution and crucifixion of the world’s first Christian, Jesus Christ. But it culminates in a celebration of new life on Easter Sunday.

All peoples have experienced the relief of finding the light at the end of the tunnel after a long struggle. But in our time, none have struggled more than those who suffered genocide under Islamic State. Make them feel welcome this Easter.

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Yadda

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Re: Islam is protective of Christianity.
Reply #17 - Jan 16^th, 2018 at 10:03am

freediver wrote on Jan 15^th, 2018 at 7:25pm:

polite_gandalf wrote on Jan 15^th, 2018 at 6:58pm:

The reality is that pre-Islamic tribes in arabia were at each others throats all the time. [until Mohammed came along]

They managed to get along. Muhammad put an end to the disagreements by slaughtering anyone who disagreed. This is what Muslims mean by peace.

MINE;
Moslems always 'get along' with peoples that they [come to] subjugate.

And typically, whenever moslems are in authority, in a political state, moslems put an end to 'intractable' disagreements with those who are not moslems, by 'removing'/'disappearing' [slaughtering] anyone who disagrees with their will.

This is what moslems mean by 'peace'.

.

IMAGE...

THOSE PLACARDS, AT A MOSLEM STREET PROTEST, 2006, IN LONDON READ.....

"Slay those who insult Islam"
"Behead those who insult Islam"
"Massacre those who insult Islam"
"Butcher those who mock Islam"
"Europe you will pay, demolition is on its way"
"Europe you will pay, extermination is on its way"
"Exterminate those who slander Islam"
"Europe is the cancer, Islam is the answer"
"Islam will dominate the world"
"Freedom go to hell"
"Europe take some lessons from 9/11"
"Be prepared for the real Holocaust"
"BBC = British Blasphemic Crusaders"

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"....And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead."
Luke 16:31

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polite_gandalf

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Re: Islam is protective of Christianity.
Reply #18 - Jan 16^th, 2018 at 11:34am

freediver wrote on Jan 15^th, 2018 at 7:25pm:

polite_gandalf wrote on Jan 15^th, 2018 at 6:58pm:

freediver wrote on Jan 15^th, 2018 at 5:53pm:

It was in Medina. But not as open as later, on the remaining pagans in the area.

That's why small remnant Jewish and Christian communities managed to survive, but the pagans were wiped out fairly quickly. This is from a society where Jews, Christians and pagans had been living side by side until that point.

FD could probably cite the wiki article he skimmed over and cherry picked to get this - if you're lucky.

The reality is that pre-Islamic tribes in arabia were at each others throats all the time. A few decades before Muhammad was born, Yemen was annexed by a jewish king, who proceeded to slaughter christians in what was probably the largest single massacre in ancient arabic history - estimates between 1000-2000 killed. In Medina, pagan and jewish tribes had nearly wiped each other out from years of fighting at the time Muhammad had arrived.

They managed to get along. Muhammad put an end to the disagreements by slaughtering anyone who disagreed. This is what Muslims mean by peace.

Near continuous war and the large scale massacres = "getting along".

Don't confuse an inability to slaughter all your enemies as a desire to "get along" with them.

To put it in your terms, Muhammad merely had the organizational and leadership skills to succeed where all the preceding warmongers had failed - not that he was morally any worse. Take the continuous war in Medina before Muhammad arrived - no one side succeeding in annhialating the other side - not through lack of trying, but because both sides were evenly matched and probably as incompetent as each other.

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A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
Quote:

Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.

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polite_gandalf

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Re: Islam is protective of Christianity.
Reply #19 - Jan 16^th, 2018 at 11:44am

Baronvonrort wrote on Jan 15^th, 2018 at 7:21pm:

polite_gandalf wrote on Jan 15^th, 2018 at 7:14pm:

They didn't do a very good job Baron.

As FD said- The impotence of muslims should not be mistaken for lack of intent.

The undie and shoe bombers along with the recent bomber in NY show muslims don't always do a good job, i guess with Allah it's the thought that counts.

Impotence? Would you describe carving out the largest empire the world had seen in the shortest period of time including the annhialation of one of the two pre-eminent empires of the time, and the near annhialation of the other - as "impotence"?

FD spends all his time here when he's not defaming muslims, arguing how effective the muslims were in the whole slaughtering and conquering business. Seems a little inconsistent to the "terrifying slaughtering barabarian" meme you guys pedal ad-nauseum - to now say, well they were so impotent they couldn't even slaughter all the defenceless christians under their rule, not even after 1400 years of trying...despite all the unprecedented conquering and slaughtering they were doing everywhere else.

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A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
Quote:

Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.

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freediver

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Re: Islam is protective of Christianity.
Reply #20 - Jan 16^th, 2018 at 12:38pm

polite_gandalf wrote on Jan 16^th, 2018 at 11:34am:

freediver wrote on Jan 15^th, 2018 at 7:25pm:

polite_gandalf wrote on Jan 15^th, 2018 at 6:58pm:

freediver wrote on Jan 15^th, 2018 at 5:53pm:

It was in Medina. But not as open as later, on the remaining pagans in the area.

That's why small remnant Jewish and Christian communities managed to survive, but the pagans were wiped out fairly quickly. This is from a society where Jews, Christians and pagans had been living side by side until that point.

FD could probably cite the wiki article he skimmed over and cherry picked to get this - if you're lucky.

The reality is that pre-Islamic tribes in arabia were at each others throats all the time. A few decades before Muhammad was born, Yemen was annexed by a jewish king, who proceeded to slaughter christians in what was probably the largest single massacre in ancient arabic history - estimates between 1000-2000 killed. In Medina, pagan and jewish tribes had nearly wiped each other out from years of fighting at the time Muhammad had arrived.

They managed to get along. Muhammad put an end to the disagreements by slaughtering anyone who disagreed. This is what Muslims mean by peace.

Near continuous war and the large scale massacres = "getting along".

Don't confuse an inability to slaughter all your enemies as a desire to "get along" with them.

To put it in your terms, Muhammad merely had the organizational and leadership skills to succeed where all the preceding warmongers had failed - not that he was morally any worse. Take the continuous war in Medina before Muhammad arrived - no one side succeeding in annhialating the other side - not through lack of trying, but because both sides were evenly matched and probably as incompetent as each other.

"not that he was morally any worse"

Grin

Wow, what a guy.

Did it occur to you that no-one had managed a precedent to the scale of Muhammad's evil precisely because they had higher moral standards? It's not like it was technically difficult. The lack of hierarchical power in Arabia at the time was the exception, not the norm.

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Auggie

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Re: Islam is protective of Christianity.
Reply #21 - Jan 16^th, 2018 at 12:48pm

freediver wrote on Jan 15^th, 2018 at 7:25pm:

polite_gandalf wrote on Jan 15^th, 2018 at 6:58pm:

freediver wrote on Jan 15^th, 2018 at 5:53pm:

It was in Medina. But not as open as later, on the remaining pagans in the area.

That's why small remnant Jewish and Christian communities managed to survive, but the pagans were wiped out fairly quickly. This is from a society where Jews, Christians and pagans had been living side by side until that point.

FD could probably cite the wiki article he skimmed over and cherry picked to get this - if you're lucky.

The reality is that pre-Islamic tribes in arabia were at each others throats all the time. A few decades before Muhammad was born, Yemen was annexed by a jewish king, who proceeded to slaughter christians in what was probably the largest single massacre in ancient arabic history - estimates between 1000-2000 killed. In Medina, pagan and jewish tribes had nearly wiped each other out from years of fighting at the time Muhammad had arrived.

They managed to get along. Muhammad put an end to the disagreements by slaughtering anyone who disagreed. This is what Muslims mean by peace.

But, you realise that they could get along only if they remained tribal confederations? The moment when someone wishes to establish a centralized authority, then that's when things get prickly. It has happened in all empires throughout history. Muhammad attempted to create a centralized authority within the Arabian peninsula.

You know, as well as anyone, that centralization is key to establishing a civilization.

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Auggie

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Re: Islam is protective of Christianity.
Reply #22 - Jan 16^th, 2018 at 12:49pm

freediver wrote on Jan 16^th, 2018 at 12:38pm:

polite_gandalf wrote on Jan 16^th, 2018 at 11:34am:

freediver wrote on Jan 15^th, 2018 at 7:25pm:

polite_gandalf wrote on Jan 15^th, 2018 at 6:58pm:

freediver wrote on Jan 15^th, 2018 at 5:53pm:

It was in Medina. But not as open as later, on the remaining pagans in the area.

That's why small remnant Jewish and Christian communities managed to survive, but the pagans were wiped out fairly quickly. This is from a society where Jews, Christians and pagans had been living side by side until that point.

FD could probably cite the wiki article he skimmed over and cherry picked to get this - if you're lucky.

The reality is that pre-Islamic tribes in arabia were at each others throats all the time. A few decades before Muhammad was born, Yemen was annexed by a jewish king, who proceeded to slaughter christians in what was probably the largest single massacre in ancient arabic history - estimates between 1000-2000 killed. In Medina, pagan and jewish tribes had nearly wiped each other out from years of fighting at the time Muhammad had arrived.

They managed to get along. Muhammad put an end to the disagreements by slaughtering anyone who disagreed. This is what Muslims mean by peace.

Near continuous war and the large scale massacres = "getting along".

Don't confuse an inability to slaughter all your enemies as a desire to "get along" with them.

To put it in your terms, Muhammad merely had the organizational and leadership skills to succeed where all the preceding warmongers had failed - not that he was morally any worse. Take the continuous war in Medina before Muhammad arrived - no one side succeeding in annhialating the other side - not through lack of trying, but because both sides were evenly matched and probably as incompetent as each other.

"not that he was morally any worse"

Grin

Wow, what a guy.

Did it occur to you that no-one had managed a precedent to the scale of Muhammad's evil precisely because they had higher moral standards? It's not like it was technically difficult. The lack of hierarchical power in Arabia at the time was the exception, not the norm.

Again, no one at the time had attempted to establish centralization in Arabia. If you look at pre-Classical empires like the Neo-Assyrian empire, you'll see precedent.

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freediver

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Re: Islam is protective of Christianity.
Reply #23 - Jan 16^th, 2018 at 12:54pm

Sure, but centralising is also the key to establishing dictatorship. Democracy and freedom rely on separating and dividing power.

I am not claiming Muhammad to be the worst of the historical warmongers. He was one of them, and should have remained so. The problem was that he created a fascist ideology that fused religion and state, in order to give timeless religious sanction to the worst aspects of state violence and any other moral crime he wanted to get away with. The backwardness of the societies that fell under the old Caliphates is a reflection of the backwardness of his ideology.

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Auggie

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Re: Islam is protective of Christianity.
Reply #24 - Jan 16^th, 2018 at 1:03pm

freediver wrote on Jan 16^th, 2018 at 12:54pm:

Sure, but centralising is also the key to establishing dictatorship.

Not necessarily. For example, did the centralization of the power of taxation to the Commonwealth after WW2 without consent by the States necessarily result in dictatorship?

freediver wrote on Jan 16^th, 2018 at 12:54pm:

Democracy and freedom rely on separating and dividing power.

Yes, if you take it to its extreme; but there is no modern example of a nation-state which fully relies on 'separating and dividing power'.

freediver wrote on Jan 16^th, 2018 at 12:54pm:

The problem was that he created a fascist ideology that fused religion and state

Now, you're working backwards, looking at through the prism of recent history. Work forwards instead. Muhammad did what was necessary to protect his community and to protect Islamic monotheism. Who knows what would've happened if he lived another 5 or 10 years??

freediver wrote on Jan 16^th, 2018 at 12:54pm:

in order to give timeless religious sanction to the worst aspects of state violence and any other moral crime he wanted to get away with

But, even you have admitted that there were limitations on the use of such 'state violence'.

freediver wrote on Jan 16^th, 2018 at 12:54pm:

The backwardness of the societies that fell under the old Caliphates is a reflection of the backwardness of his ideology.

The backwardness of the societies that fell under the Ottoman Empire was in large part due to the failure of the Ottoman Empire to exert centralization and coercive institutions in those areas. Why do you think that Iran didn't descend into tribalism?? Because the institutions of centralization and imperial authority had been established entirely within the Iranian plateau. The Ottomans couldn't get to the Arabian peninsula in time.

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polite_gandalf

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Re: Islam is protective of Christianity.
Reply #25 - Jan 16^th, 2018 at 2:47pm

freediver wrote on Jan 16^th, 2018 at 12:38pm:

Did it occur to you that no-one had managed a precedent to the scale of Muhammad's evil precisely because they had higher moral standards? It's not like it was technically difficult. The lack of hierarchical power in Arabia at the time was the exception, not the norm.

It was technically difficult FD. Dhu Nuwaz annexed Yemen in the early 6th century, and proceeded to slaughter as many christians as he could. He was only stopped by the direct intervention of the Abyssinian kingdom. That sounds like a "technical difficulty" preventing the intended annhialation of the Christians don't you think FD?

And here's the tribes of Medina "getting along":

Quote:

Eventually the Banu Aus and the Banu Khazraj became hostile to each other and by the time of Muhammad's Hijra (emigration) to Medina in 622 AD/1 AH, they had been fighting for 120 years and were the sworn enemies of each other.[19] The Banu Nadir and the Banu Qurayza were allied with the Aus, while the Banu Qaynuqa sided with the Khazraj.[20] They fought a total of four wars.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Medina#History

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A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
Quote:

Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.

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Auggie

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Re: Islam is protective of Christianity.
Reply #26 - Jan 16^th, 2018 at 4:00pm

polite_gandalf wrote on Jan 16^th, 2018 at 2:47pm:

freediver wrote on Jan 16^th, 2018 at 12:38pm:

Did it occur to you that no-one had managed a precedent to the scale of Muhammad's evil precisely because they had higher moral standards? It's not like it was technically difficult. The lack of hierarchical power in Arabia at the time was the exception, not the norm.

It was technically difficult FD. Dhu Nuwaz annexed Yemen in the early 6th century, and proceeded to slaughter as many christians as he could. He was only stopped by the direct intervention of the Abyssinian kingdom. That sounds like a "technical difficulty" preventing the intended annhialation of the Christians don't you think FD?

And here's the tribes of Medina "getting along":

Quote:

Eventually the Banu Aus and the Banu Khazraj became hostile to each other and by the time of Muhammad's Hijra (emigration) to Medina in 622 AD/1 AH, they had been fighting for 120 years and were the sworn enemies of each other.[19] The Banu Nadir and the Banu Qurayza were allied with the Aus, while the Banu Qaynuqa sided with the Khazraj.[20] They fought a total of four wars.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Medina#History

Unless I can't read, I cannot find the information of your claim that he attempted to slaughter Christians?

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issuevoter Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 9200 The Great State of Mind Gender:	Re: Islam is protective of Christianity. Reply #27 - Jan 16^th, 2018 at 4:09pm This proposition is indecent. Islam butchers anyone who does not follow the Koran. What do you think Aliakba is all about?
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Brian Ross Gold Member Online Representative of me Posts: 39600	Re: Islam is protective of Christianity. Reply #28 - Jan 16^th, 2018 at 4:43pm issuevoter wrote on Jan 16^th, 2018 at 4:09pm: This proposition is indecent. Islam butchers anyone who does not follow the Koran. What do you think Aliakba is all about? Are you dead yet? Oh, you're not? Dearie, dearie, me, appears Muslims don't butcher everybody, it seems.
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Yadda

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Re: Islam is protective of Christianity.
Reply #29 - Jan 16^th, 2018 at 5:34pm

Brian Ross wrote on Jan 16^th, 2018 at 4:43pm:

issuevoter wrote on Jan 16^th, 2018 at 4:09pm:

This proposition is indecent. Islam butchers anyone who does not follow the Koran. What do you think Aliakba is all about?

Are you dead yet? Oh, you're not?

Dearie, dearie, me, appears Muslims don't butcher everybody, it seems.

What FD and Baron said......
http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1515996181/13#13

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"....And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead."
Luke 16:31

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