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Retreating Glaciers in pictures (Read 32934 times)
lee
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Re: Retreating Glaciers in pictures
Reply #255 - Nov 17th, 2019 at 4:53pm
 
Pho Huc wrote on Nov 17th, 2019 at 4:21pm:
That kind of limits your arguments against AGW to saying that the current warming is caused by historic, non-anthropogenic causes.



How much is natural variation and how much CO2 induced Climate Change AGW?

Pho Huc wrote on Nov 17th, 2019 at 4:21pm:
If its a natural reoccurring forcer which is causing the current trend, why the current warming is so much faster than any previous global historic period?


Is it?

Do you mean the Marcott reconstruction of the last 11,000 years?

...

How about his response to the "uptick?

"Our global paleotemperature reconstruction includes a so-called “uptick” in temperatures during the 20th-century. However, in the paper we make the point that this particular feature is of shorter duration than the inherent smoothing in our statistical averaging procedure, and that it is based on only a few available paleo-reconstructions of the type we used. Thus, the 20th century portion of our paleotemperature stack is not statistically robust, cannot be considered representative of global temperature changes, and therefore is not the basis of any of our conclusions. "

http://www.realclimate.org/index.php/archives/2013/03/response-by-marcott-et-al/

Or perhaps you meant some other paper?
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Johnnie
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Re: Retreating Glaciers in pictures
Reply #256 - Nov 17th, 2019 at 7:22pm
 
The images look pretty convincing, we should be running scared. Gretta is right.
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lee
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Re: Retreating Glaciers in pictures
Reply #257 - Nov 17th, 2019 at 8:03pm
 
Johnnie wrote on Nov 17th, 2019 at 7:22pm:
The images look pretty convincing, we should be running scared. Gretta is right.



So now you are scared of glaciers? Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin

Be afraid be very afraid. The glacier monster is coming to get you. Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin
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Pho Huc
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Re: Retreating Glaciers in pictures
Reply #258 - Nov 17th, 2019 at 9:08pm
 
lee wrote on Nov 17th, 2019 at 4:53pm:
Pho Huc wrote on Nov 17th, 2019 at 4:21pm:
That kind of limits your arguments against AGW to saying that the current warming is caused by historic, non-anthropogenic causes.



How much is natural variation and how much CO2 induced Climate Change AGW?

Pho Huc wrote on Nov 17th, 2019 at 4:21pm:
If its a natural reoccurring forcer which is causing the current trend, why the current warming is so much faster than any previous global historic period?


Is it?

Do you mean the Marcott reconstruction of the last 11,000 years?

https://notrickszone.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/12/Marcott-2013-Uptick-Intervie...

How about his response to the "uptick?

"Our global paleotemperature reconstruction includes a so-called “uptick” in temperatures during the 20th-century. However, in the paper we make the point that this particular feature is of shorter duration than the inherent smoothing in our statistical averaging procedure, and that it is based on only a few available paleo-reconstructions of the type we used. Thus, the 20th century portion of our paleotemperature stack is not statistically robust, cannot be considered representative of global temperature changes, and therefore is not the basis of any of our conclusions. "

http://www.realclimate.org/index.php/archives/2013/03/response-by-marcott-et-al/

Or perhaps you meant some other paper?


To the best of my knowledge there has never been in time in history when the global average temperature has increased by a whole degree in a century. This is the defining difference between current and historic climate shifts. If your aware of period of history which demonstrated the same rapidity of change im all ears.

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lee
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Re: Retreating Glaciers in pictures
Reply #259 - Nov 17th, 2019 at 9:26pm
 
Pho Huc wrote on Nov 17th, 2019 at 9:08pm:
To the best of my knowledge there has never been in time in history when the global average temperature has increased by a whole degree in a century.



You do know proxy data is not that precise don't you? A whole degree? You do know science measures it in Kelvin?

So from 286 Kelvin to 287 Kelvin is pretty damn small.

Edit: Did you also know Phil Jones CRU East Anglia admitted that the Southern Hemisphere temperatures for the ocean was mostly made up. So we have a reasonable coverage of NH and poor coverage of SH up until about 1950 according to Phil and then that is merged to make an average temperature for the earth going back to the 1880's in some cases though some claim 1850's. Wink

"Below is an actual e-mail conversation between the Climate Research Unit’s Phil Jones and climate scientist Tom Wigley.  Phil Jones is the one who is largely responsible for making up the 1850-present temperature data for the Met Office in the UK (HadCRUT).

...
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« Last Edit: Nov 17th, 2019 at 9:47pm by lee »  
 
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Johnnie
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Re: Retreating Glaciers in pictures
Reply #260 - Nov 17th, 2019 at 9:50pm
 
lee wrote on Nov 17th, 2019 at 9:26pm:
Pho Huc wrote on Nov 17th, 2019 at 9:08pm:
To the best of my knowledge there has never been in time in history when the global average temperature has increased by a whole degree in a century.



You do know proxy data is not that precise don't you? A whole degree? You do know science measures it in Kelvin?

So from 286 Kelvin to 287 Kelvin is pretty damn small.

Edit: Did you also know Phil Jones CRU East Anglia admitted that the Southern Hemisphere temperatures for the ocean was mostly made up. So we have a reasonable coverage of NH and poor coverage of SH up until about 1950 according to Phil and then that is merged to make an average temperature for the earth going back to the 1880's in some cases though some claim 1850's. Wink

Now you are just making things up Lee,, Things aren't getting better they are getting worse.
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lee
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Re: Retreating Glaciers in pictures
Reply #261 - Nov 17th, 2019 at 10:03pm
 
Johnnie wrote on Nov 17th, 2019 at 9:50pm:
Now you are just making things up Lee,,



No petal. You just don't want to believe.

Edit: "According to Peterson and Vose (1997), in 1901 the representation of maximum/minimum instrumental temperature stations in the Southern Hemisphere (SH) up through the equatorial regions (South Asia, North Africa, Central America) was negligible.  Only coastal Australia had substantial instrumental representation in the early 20th century.   The rest of the temperature data for the SH and equatorial regions needed to be made up to extend “global” instrumental temperature data back to 1850."

https://notrickszone.com/2017/05/04/there-has-been-no-man-made-global-warming-in-...

Johnnie wrote on Nov 17th, 2019 at 9:50pm:
Things aren't getting better they are getting worse.



What exactly is getting worse petal?

Drought - not global. The IPCC says maybe the Mediterranean Basin.
Cyclones/Hurricanes? Again not according to the IPCC.
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« Last Edit: Nov 17th, 2019 at 10:32pm by lee »  
 
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Pho Huc
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Re: Retreating Glaciers in pictures
Reply #262 - Nov 17th, 2019 at 11:30pm
 
Proxy data is precise enough to be able to identify localized historical weather events that exceeded the global rate of change ( The younger Dryas event for example 15000 years ago).  You can't say its this kind of event is undetectable if we have detected previous instances.
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Re: Retreating Glaciers in pictures
Reply #263 - Nov 18th, 2019 at 7:50am
 
The BalmyUncle's stuff is just Greeny lying fraud.

Glaciers have melted since time began as it is the way Nature maintains the constant ocean levels to make up for evaporation.
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lee
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Re: Retreating Glaciers in pictures
Reply #264 - Nov 18th, 2019 at 1:47pm
 
Pho Huc wrote on Nov 17th, 2019 at 11:30pm:
Proxy data is precise enough to be able to identify localized historical weather events that exceeded the global rate of change ( The younger Dryas event for example 15000 years ago). 



And what is the smoothing applied to get accuracy down to 100 years? 200 years, 500 years? It is all lost in the noise.

Perhaps you have a reference?


Pho Huc wrote on Nov 17th, 2019 at 11:30pm:
You can't say its this kind of event is undetectable if we have detected previous instances.


So where is the paper that detects this at 100 year resolution. Wink
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juliar
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Re: Retreating Glaciers in pictures
Reply #265 - Nov 18th, 2019 at 6:21pm
 
Greenies'  "graphs"  are just lying fabrications designed to fool the gullibles.
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Pho Huc
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Re: Retreating Glaciers in pictures
Reply #266 - Nov 22nd, 2019 at 2:23am
 
lee wrote on Nov 18th, 2019 at 1:47pm:
Pho Huc wrote on Nov 17th, 2019 at 11:30pm:
Proxy data is precise enough to be able to identify localized historical weather events that exceeded the global rate of change ( The younger Dryas event for example 15000 years ago). 



And what is the smoothing applied to get accuracy down to 100 years? 200 years, 500 years? It is all lost in the noise.

Perhaps you have a reference?


Pho Huc wrote on Nov 17th, 2019 at 11:30pm:
You can't say its this kind of event is undetectable if we have detected previous instances.


So where is the paper that detects this at 100 year resolution. Wink



I think your getting confused by your own bullshit Lee. Anyone interested knows ice cores form layers annually, you don't get accuracy down to a century, you get it down a year. Quite a thread, in a few replies you've accepted the planet is getting warmer and had your "the records aint accurate enough" go to excuse kicked out. Ouch.
https://www.igsoc.org/journal/56/200/j10j201.pdf
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lee
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Re: Retreating Glaciers in pictures
Reply #267 - Nov 22nd, 2019 at 11:24am
 
Pho Huc wrote on Nov 22nd, 2019 at 2:23am:
Anyone interested knows ice cores form layers annually, you don't get accuracy down to a century, you get it down a year.



Now that would be a first.

Please show at least one paper with ice core with an annual resolution. Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin

Pho Huc wrote on Nov 22nd, 2019 at 2:23am:
https://www.igsoc.org/journal/56/200/j10j201.pdf



That article dos not mention anything specific about resolution. But Ice core measure CO2 NOT temperature.You do understand the distinction don't you?

So what is this proxy data for temperature that has a resolution of less than 100 years?
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Pho Huc
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Re: Retreating Glaciers in pictures
Reply #268 - Nov 22nd, 2019 at 12:13pm
 
"ice core basics" (for people who rely on disassembly not evidence)

"Ice sheets have one particularly special property. They allow us to go back in time and to sample accumulation, air temperature and air chemistry from another time"

". High rates of snow accumulation provide excellent time resolution, and bubbles in the ice core preserve actual samples of the world’s ancient atmosphere"

http://www.antarcticglaciers.org/glaciers-and-climate/ice-cores/ice-core-basics/


Seems like your understanding of the basics is a bit lacking Lee.
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Re: Retreating Glaciers in pictures
Reply #269 - Nov 22nd, 2019 at 12:17pm
 
Its really cute how Lee demands all assertions be justified with a peer review paper with the same conclusion. Hypocrisy?  naw- Its his game plan. Dissemble. Deny, refuse, make the other person prove their opinions, then retreat back to disassembly. I guess if that's your job that's what you gotta do. How sad would it be if he was just doing it for free?
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