Australian Politics Forum - How many seats have one nation won ?

freediver

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Re: How many seats have one nation won ?
Reply #60 - Nov 26^th, 2017 at 9:42am

cods wrote on Nov 26^th, 2017 at 9:06am:

freediver wrote on Nov 26^th, 2017 at 8:11am:

Lord Herbert wrote on Nov 26^th, 2017 at 8:00am:

How can One Nation come third after the major two and yet still not win a seat?

They've received almost double that of the Greens, and Katter's Australia party has hardly registered a blip.

There's something wrong with the way the system has been structured.

link

It's because single member electorates make it an all or nothing thing. To get a single seat you need to get a majority somewhere.

cods wrote on Nov 26^th, 2017 at 8:06am:

Lord Herbert wrote on Nov 26^th, 2017 at 8:00am:

How can One Nation come third after the major two and yet still not win a seat?

They've received almost double that of the Greens, and Katter's Australia party has hardly registered a blip.

There's something wrong with the way the system has been structured.

link

preferences control the verdict....its total rubbish...its time we grew up and had first past the post.....Katter get two seats.... Roll Eyes

and if it goes as predicted he will have a share of the POWER.. what a joke.

Preferences are not the cause. They go a long way to solving the problem. The problem is much worse in places that do not have preferential voting. Imagine if supporters of Greens, ON, Democrats, etc were made to feel like they were throwing their vote away if they voted for their preferred party. A Greens supporter might help the LNP to get elected ahead of Labor by voting Green. Their effect on the legislative outcome would be the opposite of their intention. A Greens candidate might cause an LNP win if they run, or a Labor win if they withdraw. This is literally what happens in places without preferential voting. It cripples minor parties and usually leave only two viable options. Better than only one viable option, but a long way from genuine democracy and an invitation for corruption.

do not agree..... if it comes down to those with the most votes.....people might take more care with their vote..

as it is no one knows sometimes for weeks what good their voting did????....with out system any tom dick or harry can jump on the bus.....get 1000 votes... never get a seat yet impacts on who get the golden chalice ... no chance harry should never be allowed to run in the first place....... we have more fickle stoopid crap things to sift through, than any other country...

if we had 50 million voters I could understand it...

but we dont in the mean time...every bloody govt State and Fed is forced to make DEALS>.with minorities...who have an axe to grind... Roll Eyes

otherwise they would be with one of the majors. Angry

You have it backwards cods. Preferential voting prevents the presence or absence of minor parties from changing the election outcome. Also, being forced to choose between voting for the party you actually prefer or voting for one of the major parties so you don't waste your vote may force people to be more 'careful', but they are being careful about a flaw in the democratic process, that is all.

The choice between these two methods has nothing at all to do with the requirements for getting your name on the ballot paper.

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cods

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Re: How many seats have one nation won ?
Reply #61 - Nov 26^th, 2017 at 10:24am

freediver wrote on Nov 26^th, 2017 at 9:42am:

ou have it backwards cods. Preferential voting prevents the presence or absence of minor parties from changing the election outcome. Also, being forced to choose between voting for the party you actually prefer or voting for one of the major parties so you don't waste your vote may force people to be more 'careful', but they are being careful about a flaw in the democratic process, that is all.

The choice between these two methods has nothing at all to do with the requirements for getting your name on the ballot paper.

seriously I dont see it that way at all....

I see people getting a seat with someone 3rd 4th even 5th choice...of person they would vote for meaning its someone they WOULD NEVER VOTE FOR...

come on since when do we have any choices in who runs for these jobs???.

we dont

they are mostly hand picked by means we are not told about..

when did you get asked if you wanted Mr or Mrs so and so to run in your electorate??...

you are given a list of names.. told to list them in order ..you then hand them over where more faceless people count them...not once not twice but over and over...until someone reaches a magic number..and that person is declared the winner....how they got there no one truly knows....

we are like sheep and mostly we do whats easiest..

you may well be on top of what you are voting for and well done to you....but so many judging by what we read here... are more interested in who they put last....

thats all that matters to them Roll Eyes

between 1st and last doesnt come into it...yet its those votes that gets someone over the line..

no wonder it can take weeks... and you claim thats fair.. Sad

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Its time Gold Member Offline Boot libs out Posts: 25639 Gender:	Re: How many seats have one nation won ? Reply #62 - Nov 26^th, 2017 at 10:32am One Nation crashed & burned in WA; ran aground in Queensland; has been exposed as a shonky Ponzi scheme; is led by a cynical carpetbagger & hires Dunning-Kruger candidates whose delusions are boundless; yet still a morally bankrupt media treats them as a serious force Best comment ever
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Grendel

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Re: How many seats have one nation won ?
Reply #63 - Nov 26^th, 2017 at 10:37am

freediver wrote on Nov 26^th, 2017 at 8:11am:

Lord Herbert wrote on Nov 26^th, 2017 at 8:00am:

How can One Nation come third after the major two and yet still not win a seat?

They've received almost double that of the Greens, and Katter's Australia party has hardly registered a blip.

There's something wrong with the way the system has been structured.

link

It's because single member electorates make it an all or nothing thing. To get a single seat you need to get a majority somewhere.

cods wrote on Nov 26^th, 2017 at 8:06am:

Lord Herbert wrote on Nov 26^th, 2017 at 8:00am:

How can One Nation come third after the major two and yet still not win a seat?

They've received almost double that of the Greens, and Katter's Australia party has hardly registered a blip.

There's something wrong with the way the system has been structured.

link

preferences control the verdict....its total rubbish...its time we grew up and had first past the post.....Katter get two seats.... Roll Eyes

and if it goes as predicted he will have a share of the POWER.. what a joke.

Preferences are not the cause. They go a long way to solving the problem. The problem is much worse in places that do not have preferential voting. Imagine if supporters of Greens, ON, Democrats, etc were made to feel like they were throwing their vote away if they voted for their preferred party. A Greens supporter might help the LNP to get elected ahead of Labor by voting Green. Their effect on the legislative outcome would be the opposite of their intention. A Greens candidate might cause an LNP win if they run, or a Labor win if they withdraw. This is literally what happens in places without preferential voting. It cripples minor parties and usually leave only two viable options. Better than only one viable option, but a long way from genuine democracy and an invitation for corruption.

LOL
If you want real democracy it should go back to Optional preferential voting.
Cods is right to say your vote may end up with someone you would not vote for.
There might only be 1 Candidate or party you want to vote for, then you should be allowed to do that.
The ALP changed it so in most seats only 1 of the majors will be in.
Independents and small parties must win over 50% of the primary vote.

In the past Hanson has won the Primary vote but lost due to preferences. The majors can control the vote by both putting these sorts of parties and people last in a mandatory preference system.

I hear dopes saying ON gave ALP seats on preferences... ON ran with no preferences allowing supporters to choose their own preferences. Most people already know this and HTVs are simply not required except for sheeple.

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Bias_2012

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Re: How many seats have one nation won ?
Reply #64 - Nov 26^th, 2017 at 11:52am

A big problem with our voting systems is that seats can be changed. They can be made bigger, smaller, or even wiped out by new boundaries. No sooner do the voters get used to their electorate and the potential political heads in their seat, and it abruptly gets changed, sometimes only 2-3 months before an election

Another problem is having to 2nd preference a candidate you abhor when you've only got two candidates running. Then there are the times when you can't stomach voting for any of the candidates running in your seat

A better system of voting would be just voting for a representative in your seat first by "First Past the Post". Then have a State or Federal election for HORs, electing just parties and independents. This would alleviate the problem of preferencing and ensure every party was represented in parliament according to their percentage of votes

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mothra

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Re: How many seats have one nation won ?
Reply #65 - Nov 26^th, 2017 at 12:02pm

Pauline Hanson’s miserable night

Pauline Hanson and One Nation have had a miserable night. But the Queensland election wasn't much better for Malcolm Turnbull or the federal coalition.

One Nation had expected to pick up a number of seats and at least hold the balance of power in the state parliament, thus stamping its resurgence as a political force in Australia.

Federal politicians had been watching the Queensland election to see whether it was the beginning or the end for the party.

At the end of counting on Saturday night, One Nation was yet to win a seat and had lost its two biggest names - state leader and LNP defector Steve Dickson and former senator Malcolm Roberts.

It could be hard for them to rebuild again, although Senator Hanson was putting on a brave face.

"I think we will win some seats, there's no doubt about that," she said.

Federal MPs from Labor and the coalition declared it a disastrous result for One Nation.

The biggest headache for the prime minister from Saturday's election has not been the issue of One Nation, but the failure of the Liberal National Party to cut through and reverse its fortunes in Queensland, especially in the key regional seats.

abinet minister Matt Canavan, a Queensland National, said he was not surprised by the results, especially in the regions.

"There is a lot of anxiety. There is a level of frustration that things are not happening," he told the ABC.

Uncertain results in regional seats had prevented a clear outcome from Saturday's election.

"You get this sort of backlash against a government in regional Queensland as you have seen today when they don't think they are being listened to," Senator Canavan said.

A solid showing on Saturday could have given One Nation a foot in the door for the next federal election in seats such as Herbert, Dawson, Wright, Flynn, Hinkler and Blair, as well as the Senate.

There are benefits in a weakened One Nation for Malcolm Turnbull, as he seeks to restore his own stocks. It will give the coalition a better chance of bolstering its numbers in the Senate.

And it will raise hopes LNP members in regional seats will be able to see off future challenges from the minor party.

However, one of those MPs, Dawson's George Christensen, isn't convinced. He posted on social media a map of a segregated Queensland.

"There are clearly two Queenslands. The case for a separate North Queensland state is strong after tonight."

http://www.sbs.com.au/news/article/2017/11/26/pauline-hansons-miserable-night

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John Smith Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 72349 Gender:	Re: How many seats have one nation won ? Reply #66 - Nov 26^th, 2017 at 12:02pm I've been a bit busy to check this morning .... can anyone tell me if One Nation has won any seats?
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mothra Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 34587 Gender:	Re: How many seats have one nation won ? Reply #67 - Nov 26^th, 2017 at 12:03pm John Smith wrote on Nov 26^th, 2017 at 12:02pm: I've been a bit busy to check this morning .... can anyone tell me if One Nation has won any seats?
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John Smith

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Re: How many seats have one nation won ?
Reply #68 - Nov 26^th, 2017 at 12:04pm

mothra wrote on Nov 26^th, 2017 at 12:02pm:

Pauline Hanson’s miserable night

Pauline Hanson and One Nation have had a miserable night. But the Queensland election wasn't much better for Malcolm Turnbull or the federal coalition.

One Nation had expected to pick up a number of seats and at least hold the balance of power in the state parliament, thus stamping its resurgence as a political force in Australia.

Federal politicians had been watching the Queensland election to see whether it was the beginning or the end for the party.

At the end of counting on Saturday night, One Nation was yet to win a seat and had lost its two biggest names - state leader and LNP defector Steve Dickson and former senator Malcolm Roberts.

It could be hard for them to rebuild again, although Senator Hanson was putting on a brave face.

"I think we will win some seats, there's no doubt about that," she said.

Federal MPs from Labor and the coalition declared it a disastrous result for One Nation.

The biggest headache for the prime minister from Saturday's election has not been the issue of One Nation, but the failure of the Liberal National Party to cut through and reverse its fortunes in Queensland, especially in the key regional seats.

abinet minister Matt Canavan, a Queensland National, said he was not surprised by the results, especially in the regions.

"There is a lot of anxiety. There is a level of frustration that things are not happening," he told the ABC.

Uncertain results in regional seats had prevented a clear outcome from Saturday's election.

"You get this sort of backlash against a government in regional Queensland as you have seen today when they don't think they are being listened to," Senator Canavan said.

A solid showing on Saturday could have given One Nation a foot in the door for the next federal election in seats such as Herbert, Dawson, Wright, Flynn, Hinkler and Blair, as well as the Senate.

There are benefits in a weakened One Nation for Malcolm Turnbull, as he seeks to restore his own stocks. It will give the coalition a better chance of bolstering its numbers in the Senate.

And it will raise hopes LNP members in regional seats will be able to see off future challenges from the minor party.

However, one of those MPs, Dawson's George Christensen, isn't convinced. He posted on social media a map of a segregated Queensland.

"There are clearly two Queenslands. The case for a separate North Queensland state is strong after tonight."

http://www.sbs.com.au/news/article/2017/11/26/pauline-hansons-miserable-night

that can't be right mothra .... hammer was telling me just the other night that ON were going to be a force to be reckoned with, both in QLD and federally. That they were going to become the next major party, replacing labor.

Grin

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I hope that bitch who was running their brothels for them gets raped with a cactus.

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mothra

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Re: How many seats have one nation won ?
Reply #69 - Nov 26^th, 2017 at 12:09pm

John Smith wrote on Nov 26^th, 2017 at 12:04pm:

mothra wrote on Nov 26^th, 2017 at 12:02pm:

Pauline Hanson’s miserable night

Pauline Hanson and One Nation have had a miserable night. But the Queensland election wasn't much better for Malcolm Turnbull or the federal coalition.

One Nation had expected to pick up a number of seats and at least hold the balance of power in the state parliament, thus stamping its resurgence as a political force in Australia.

Federal politicians had been watching the Queensland election to see whether it was the beginning or the end for the party.

At the end of counting on Saturday night, One Nation was yet to win a seat and had lost its two biggest names - state leader and LNP defector Steve Dickson and former senator Malcolm Roberts.

It could be hard for them to rebuild again, although Senator Hanson was putting on a brave face.

"I think we will win some seats, there's no doubt about that," she said.

Federal MPs from Labor and the coalition declared it a disastrous result for One Nation.

The biggest headache for the prime minister from Saturday's election has not been the issue of One Nation, but the failure of the Liberal National Party to cut through and reverse its fortunes in Queensland, especially in the key regional seats.

abinet minister Matt Canavan, a Queensland National, said he was not surprised by the results, especially in the regions.

"There is a lot of anxiety. There is a level of frustration that things are not happening," he told the ABC.

Uncertain results in regional seats had prevented a clear outcome from Saturday's election.

"You get this sort of backlash against a government in regional Queensland as you have seen today when they don't think they are being listened to," Senator Canavan said.

A solid showing on Saturday could have given One Nation a foot in the door for the next federal election in seats such as Herbert, Dawson, Wright, Flynn, Hinkler and Blair, as well as the Senate.

There are benefits in a weakened One Nation for Malcolm Turnbull, as he seeks to restore his own stocks. It will give the coalition a better chance of bolstering its numbers in the Senate.

And it will raise hopes LNP members in regional seats will be able to see off future challenges from the minor party.

However, one of those MPs, Dawson's George Christensen, isn't convinced. He posted on social media a map of a segregated Queensland.

"There are clearly two Queenslands. The case for a separate North Queensland state is strong after tonight."

http://www.sbs.com.au/news/article/2017/11/26/pauline-hansons-miserable-night

that can't be right mothra .... hammer was telling me just the other night that ON were going to be a force to be reckoned with, both in QLD and federally. That they were going to become the next major party, replacing labor.

Grin

I'm afraid it's all true John. Poor Pauline, it seems, is simply not validated by the Australian people.

Not even in Queensland .. Grin

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Its time

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Re: How many seats have one nation won ?
Reply #70 - Nov 26^th, 2017 at 12:18pm

John Smith wrote on Nov 26^th, 2017 at 12:04pm:

mothra wrote on Nov 26^th, 2017 at 12:02pm:

Pauline Hanson’s miserable night

Pauline Hanson and One Nation have had a miserable night. But the Queensland election wasn't much better for Malcolm Turnbull or the federal coalition.

One Nation had expected to pick up a number of seats and at least hold the balance of power in the state parliament, thus stamping its resurgence as a political force in Australia.

Federal politicians had been watching the Queensland election to see whether it was the beginning or the end for the party.

At the end of counting on Saturday night, One Nation was yet to win a seat and had lost its two biggest names - state leader and LNP defector Steve Dickson and former senator Malcolm Roberts.

It could be hard for them to rebuild again, although Senator Hanson was putting on a brave face.

"I think we will win some seats, there's no doubt about that," she said.

Federal MPs from Labor and the coalition declared it a disastrous result for One Nation.

The biggest headache for the prime minister from Saturday's election has not been the issue of One Nation, but the failure of the Liberal National Party to cut through and reverse its fortunes in Queensland, especially in the key regional seats.

abinet minister Matt Canavan, a Queensland National, said he was not surprised by the results, especially in the regions.

"There is a lot of anxiety. There is a level of frustration that things are not happening," he told the ABC.

Uncertain results in regional seats had prevented a clear outcome from Saturday's election.

"You get this sort of backlash against a government in regional Queensland as you have seen today when they don't think they are being listened to," Senator Canavan said.

A solid showing on Saturday could have given One Nation a foot in the door for the next federal election in seats such as Herbert, Dawson, Wright, Flynn, Hinkler and Blair, as well as the Senate.

There are benefits in a weakened One Nation for Malcolm Turnbull, as he seeks to restore his own stocks. It will give the coalition a better chance of bolstering its numbers in the Senate.

And it will raise hopes LNP members in regional seats will be able to see off future challenges from the minor party.

However, one of those MPs, Dawson's George Christensen, isn't convinced. He posted on social media a map of a segregated Queensland.

"There are clearly two Queenslands. The case for a separate North Queensland state is strong after tonight."

http://www.sbs.com.au/news/article/2017/11/26/pauline-hansons-miserable-night

that can't be right mothra .... hammer was telling me just the other night that ON were going to be a force to be reckoned with, both in QLD and federally. That they were going to become the next major party, replacing labor.

Grin

It's safe to say governments from the right are getting the big red rejected stamp

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Bias_2012 Gold Member Online Australian Politics Posts: 10347 Gender:	Re: How many seats have one nation won ? Reply #71 - Nov 26^th, 2017 at 12:19pm One Nation is still the talk of the town though
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Its time Gold Member Offline Boot libs out Posts: 25639 Gender:	Re: How many seats have one nation won ? Reply #72 - Nov 26^th, 2017 at 12:23pm Bias_2012 wrote on Nov 26^th, 2017 at 12:19pm: One Nation is still the talk of the town though For all the wrong reasons
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mothra Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 34587 Gender:	Re: How many seats have one nation won ? Reply #73 - Nov 26^th, 2017 at 12:25pm Bias_2012 wrote on Nov 26^th, 2017 at 12:19pm: One Nation is still the talk of the town though You mean joke? Cautionary tale?
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Mr Hammer Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 25212 Gender:	Re: How many seats have one nation won ? Reply #74 - Nov 26^th, 2017 at 12:26pm Its time wrote on Nov 26^th, 2017 at 12:23pm: Bias_2012 wrote on Nov 26^th, 2017 at 12:19pm: One Nation is still the talk of the town though For all the wrong reasons One Nation isn't the disease leftwinger, it's the symptom.
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