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Racism, sacred cows and political correctness (Read 139192 times)
Big Donger
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Re: Racism, sacred cows and political correctness
Reply #375 - Nov 11th, 2017 at 8:14pm
 
Mr Hammer wrote on Nov 11th, 2017 at 11:48am:
It doesn't matter if the abos want people to walk on it or not. The Hawke government and the abos signed a 99 year contract which allows amongst other things people the right to walk on the rock.  67 years to go. Hopefully after 67 years this rubbish will disappear.


So show it. Go on, stop being such a Jockohomo all your life.

Do what FD does, back up your words with top-shelf sources.

And I don't mean your own questions.
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polite_gandalf
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Re: Racism, sacred cows and political correctness
Reply #376 - Nov 12th, 2017 at 6:52am
 
freediver wrote on Nov 10th, 2017 at 6:12pm:
Your lies about no-one wanting to climb the rock are no less idiotic than saying people are permitted to go to a public pool but aren't allowed to swim in it.


The only idiocy here is this absurd strawman that I said no one wants to climb the rock. Honestly, where did you get that rubbish from? Of course there will be people who want to climb the rock. Just like there are people who want to climb the Opera House, or climb the trees at the Botanical Garden. But we don't say those people are "banned" from visiting just because they are not allowed to climb those things. That is your logical inconsistency.

How about the people who want to visit Uluru, but don't wish to climb it (ie the majority of visitors)? Are they also "banned" from visiting? Do the majority of people who visit Bondi have no intention or desire to sit on the sand and/or go in the surf? Your logic is not only inconsistent, its dishonest.




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Sir Grappler Truth Teller OAM
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Re: Racism, sacred cows and political correctness
Reply #377 - Nov 12th, 2017 at 10:55am
 
polite_gandalf wrote on Nov 12th, 2017 at 6:52am:
freediver wrote on Nov 10th, 2017 at 6:12pm:
Your lies about no-one wanting to climb the rock are no less idiotic than saying people are permitted to go to a public pool but aren't allowed to swim in it.


The only idiocy here is this absurd strawman that I said no one wants to climb the rock. Honestly, where did you get that rubbish from? Of course there will be people who want to climb the rock. Just like there are people who want to climb the Opera House, or climb the trees at the Botanical Garden. But we don't say those people are "banned" from visiting just because they are not allowed to climb those things. That is your logical inconsistency.

How about the people who want to visit Uluru, but don't wish to climb it (ie the majority of visitors)? Are they also "banned" from visiting? Do the majority of people who visit Bondi have no intention or desire to sit on the sand and/or go in the surf? Your logic is not only inconsistent, its dishonest.






If it's really a 'spiritual area' and not just the common and occasional desire of a few blokes Black to climb to the top for the hell of it (as we all do at times), and knowing it's a difficult climb and a test of manhood, they exclude the Nippers and the Sheilas - why don't they just demand the whole area be Whitey Proof Fenced?

Because it ain't a 'spiritual' thing at all other than a few blokes wanting to climb up it for the Hell of it, same as any other bloke might at some interesting hill or mountain, such as Kosciusko (next 'spiritual place/sacred site' to be demanded?) - it's a part of Human Nature, but it's hardly 'spiritual' any more than the desire of anyone else to climb it. 

That's just BS to get control over it.

Please stop trying to compare public buildings with natural objects... hardly anyone wants to climb the Opera House and it is forbidden to do so for safety and ownership rules... natural objects are a different game entirely and are not owned by anyone in National Parks, and nor should they be.

Note the hypocrisy of the 'council' who want to play by 'Captain Cook rules' when it suits them to get something for nothing, but then rubbish 'Captain Cook rules' while taking Captain Cook money hand over fist - bet they still want that money even though they want to close off The Rock itself.  Possibly the worst example of Cargo Cult is the never-ending sudden epiphanies by Indigenous people that certain areas are 'sacred sites' with 'spiritual significance' to them only.  Look at Jervis Bay.... lovely spot - how come it's significant ONLY to the Kaffir?

They missed that one by over two hundred years - time to just enjoy it like everyone else.
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John Smith
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Re: Racism, sacred cows and political correctness
Reply #378 - Nov 12th, 2017 at 11:03am
 
Sir Grappler Truth Teller OAM wrote on Nov 12th, 2017 at 10:55am:
hardly anyone wants to climb the Opera House and it is forbidden to do so for safety and ownership rules



over 35 deaths from people climbing uluru ... I'd say that makes it  a safety issue



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Re: Racism, sacred cows and political correctness
Reply #379 - Nov 12th, 2017 at 11:08am
 
polite_gandalf wrote on Nov 12th, 2017 at 6:52am:
freediver wrote on Nov 10th, 2017 at 6:12pm:
Your lies about no-one wanting to climb the rock are no less idiotic than saying people are permitted to go to a public pool but aren't allowed to swim in it.


The only idiocy here is this absurd strawman that I said no one wants to climb the rock. Honestly, where did you get that rubbish from? Of course there will be people who want to climb the rock. Just like there are people who want to climb the Opera House, or climb the trees at the Botanical Garden. But we don't say those people are "banned" from visiting just because they are not allowed to climb those things. That is your logical inconsistency.

How about the people who want to visit Uluru, but don't wish to climb it (ie the majority of visitors)? Are they also "banned" from visiting? Do the majority of people who visit Bondi have no intention or desire to sit on the sand and/or go in the surf? Your logic is not only inconsistent, its dishonest.






They are banned from Uluru Gandalf. Or they would be, if these racist, sexist aborigines had their way. Perhaps you are confused about what Uluru is. It is not a national park. It is not a general vicinity. It is a rock. I am not saying they are banned from a national park or a general vicinity. I am saying they are banned from Uluru. Being able to take photos from a distance would not change this.

The swimming pool analogy is spot on. It captures perfectly the idiocy of your analogy with a tree in a garden or climbing the opera house. Would you say people are allowed to come and visit your home if they were only allowed to stand out on the foot path and take photos?

John Smith wrote on Nov 12th, 2017 at 11:03am:
Sir Grappler Truth Teller OAM wrote on Nov 12th, 2017 at 10:55am:
hardly anyone wants to climb the Opera House and it is forbidden to do so for safety and ownership rules



over 35 deaths from people climbing uluru ... I'd say that makes it  a safety issue





Nice try John. Better stay at home and wrap yourself in cotton wool.

Did you know that Aborigines have been cutting the safety chains in order to put tourists in danger? Then they have the gall to whine about how terrible they feel when people die and how they must ban the climb for this reason. Racist hypocrites.
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John Smith
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Re: Racism, sacred cows and political correctness
Reply #380 - Nov 12th, 2017 at 11:34am
 
freediver wrote on Nov 12th, 2017 at 11:08am:
Nice try John. Better stay at home and wrap yourself in cotton wool.


I'm not the one who bought up safety FD  Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy

how do you manage to keep your head permanently embedded in the sand and not get sand in your ears?
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John Smith
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Re: Racism, sacred cows and political correctness
Reply #381 - Nov 12th, 2017 at 11:35am
 
freediver wrote on Nov 12th, 2017 at 11:08am:
Did you know that Aborigines have been cutting the safety chains in order to put tourists in danger?



no, did you? or are these the same abo's that are putting up that imaginary fence you mentioned?
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Big Donger
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Re: Racism, sacred cows and political correctness
Reply #382 - Nov 12th, 2017 at 11:45am
 
freediver wrote on Nov 12th, 2017 at 11:08am:
polite_gandalf wrote on Nov 12th, 2017 at 6:52am:
freediver wrote on Nov 10th, 2017 at 6:12pm:
Your lies about no-one wanting to climb the rock are no less idiotic than saying people are permitted to go to a public pool but aren't allowed to swim in it.


The only idiocy here is this absurd strawman that I said no one wants to climb the rock. Honestly, where did you get that rubbish from? Of course there will be people who want to climb the rock. Just like there are people who want to climb the Opera House, or climb the trees at the Botanical Garden. But we don't say those people are "banned" from visiting just because they are not allowed to climb those things. That is your logical inconsistency.

How about the people who want to visit Uluru, but don't wish to climb it (ie the majority of visitors)? Are they also "banned" from visiting? Do the majority of people who visit Bondi have no intention or desire to sit on the sand and/or go in the surf? Your logic is not only inconsistent, its dishonest.






They are banned from Uluru Gandalf. Or they would be, if these racist, sexist aborigines had their way. Perhaps you are confused about what Uluru is. It is not a national park. It is not a general vicinity. It is a rock. I am not saying they are banned from a national park or a general vicinity. I am saying they are banned from Uluru. Being able to take photos from a distance would not change this.

The swimming pool analogy is spot on. It captures perfectly the idiocy of your analogy with a tree in a garden or climbing the opera house. Would you say people are allowed to come and visit your home if they were only allowed to stand out on the foot path and take photos?

John Smith wrote on Nov 12th, 2017 at 11:03am:
Sir Grappler Truth Teller OAM wrote on Nov 12th, 2017 at 10:55am:
hardly anyone wants to climb the Opera House and it is forbidden to do so for safety and ownership rules



over 35 deaths from people climbing uluru ... I'd say that makes it  a safety issue





Nice try John. Better stay at home and wrap yourself in cotton wool.

Did you know that Aborigines have been cutting the safety chains in order to put tourists in danger? Then they have the gall to whine about how terrible they feel when people die and how they must ban the climb for this reason. Racist hypocrites.


Do you uphold the use of porkies in your campaign against the Boong?

A simple yes or no will suffice.
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Re: Racism, sacred cows and political correctness
Reply #383 - Nov 12th, 2017 at 11:52am
 
freediver wrote on Nov 12th, 2017 at 11:08am:
I am not saying they are banned from a national park or a general vicinity. I am saying they are banned from Uluru.


So it has taken you 26 pages to admit that you are just playing silly semantic games

freediver wrote on Nov 12th, 2017 at 11:08am:
The swimming pool analogy is spot on.


The swimming pool analogy is ludicrous.
People go to a swimming pool to swim
People go to Uluru to: look at the natural feature, hike around the base, look at the aboriginal rock art, take scenic flights, experience the red centre of Australia, visit the nearby Olgas, visit the Aboriginal cultural centre and a minority of them may also want to spend a small part of their visit climbing the rock.
I can't believe that you would honestly think that there was any similarity between the two.
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Re: Racism, sacred cows and political correctness
Reply #384 - Nov 12th, 2017 at 11:56am
 
Quote:
People go to Uluru to: look at the natural feature, hike around the base, look at the aboriginal rock art, take scenic flights, experience the red centre of Australia, visit the nearby Olgas, visit the Aboriginal cultural centre and a minority of them may also want to spend a small part of their visit climbing the rock.


It is not for you to say what their reasons are. And I was not playing silly semantic games. I was quite clear from the beginning. They are banned from Uluru. Hence the swimming pool analogy. Of course they can still buy dot print stubbie coolers from the nearby gift shop.
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Re: Racism, sacred cows and political correctness
Reply #385 - Nov 12th, 2017 at 12:01pm
 
freediver wrote on Nov 12th, 2017 at 11:56am:
. They are banned from Uluru.



WRONG ... they are banned from CLIMBING Uluru


why do you persist with your lies?
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Re: Racism, sacred cows and political correctness
Reply #386 - Nov 12th, 2017 at 12:04pm
 
Quote:
WRONG ... they are banned from CLIMBING Uluru


How is this any less idiotic than saying people are not banned from a pool, they just can't swim in it?
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Re: Racism, sacred cows and political correctness
Reply #387 - Nov 12th, 2017 at 12:07pm
 
John Smith wrote on Nov 12th, 2017 at 11:03am:
Sir Grappler Truth Teller OAM wrote on Nov 12th, 2017 at 10:55am:
hardly anyone wants to climb the Opera House and it is forbidden to do so for safety and ownership rules



over 35 deaths from people climbing uluru ... I'd say that makes it  a safety issue





It's a natural object - not a controlled space like a building..... and the track is well worn and easyto see ..... gimme a list of the causes of death... silly old buggars climbing with heart troubles?  Lack of sense in carrying water?  Aboriginal spearing?  Sliptan Fell? 

WHAT did they die of?  Since the 1940's..... lessee now.. that's around 75 years.. one every two years... how many motorists are killed annually on the Harbour Bridge?  How many people suffer heart attacks and such in the Opera House?

60,000 tourists a year..... lessee now - that's 75 x 60k = $4.5m - so 35 deaths is one chance in 128,571 of dying there.... better than the national average, I'd reckon, at 5.4 per thousand.  Yup - 1:1758 or something is the rate annually - MUCH lower at less than 1 per thousand annually.

Safety chains, you say?  Someone has been cutting them?  Where is the stewardship of this natural object, where the ranger checking the chains etc before climbing hours?

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2015-10-28/man-claims-he-cut-chains-on-uluru-to-set-o...

"Senior Aboriginal people in Central Australia are praising the actions of a man who cut a climbing chain on Uluru to try and stop tourists going up the rock, with one saying it could be an opportunity to stop the practice for good."
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Re: Racism, sacred cows and political correctness
Reply #388 - Nov 12th, 2017 at 12:28pm
 
Mr Hammer wrote on Nov 10th, 2017 at 2:28pm:
Turnbull government decides against banning tourists from climbing on Uluru
"Either we can't spell, or they can't read," traditional owner Vince Forrester says of the thousands of tourists who scale Uluru each year, against the wishes of local Aboriginal people. 
"There are all these [signs in] different languages asking 'please don't climb'. I feel disappointed that they really haven't got it yet."
Despite the spiritual significance of Uluru, Environment Minister Greg Hunt has no plans to stop people climbing the rock.
The Turnbull government last week announced the privately run Big Uluru Trek would begin in August - a 100-kilometre five-day desert hike from Amata to Uluru that would provide a new tourist drawcard and boost investment. It raised the prospect that the controversial rock climb might finally be banned.
The climb traces the route taken by the ancestral Mala men on their arrival at Uluru, and traditional owners consider that tourists who take the walk are disrespecting this spiritual significance.
A 2010 plan to manage the Uluru-Kata Tjuta National Park stated authorities would "work towards closure of the climb" for safety, cultural and environmental reasons.
However a spokesman for Environment Minister Greg Hunt on Tuesday said there were "no plans to change current arrangements".
In 2009 when in opposition, Mr Hunt reportedly said closing the rock to walkers "was on Labor's agenda", adding it would "end one of the great tourism experiences in Australia".
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"Big Brother is coming to Uluru to slam the gate closed on an Australian tourism icon, the climb," he said.
His spokesman this week would not say if Mr Hunt still held that view.
The plan of management states the climb should permanently close when any of three conditions are met: fewer than 20 per cent of Uluru visitors make the ascent, enough new "visitor experiences" are established to replace it, or the climb is not the principal reason people choose to come to Uluru.
Climb numbers have fallen steadily over the past few decades. Between 2011 and 2015 the proportion of Uluru visitors scaling the rock "fluctuated" around 20 per cent, according to federal agency Parks Australia - equating to about 55,000 people last year. It did not provide year-on-year figures.
Parks Australia's own research has shown that 98 per cent of visitors would still visit Uluru if the climb closed. It said on Tuesday that more visitor activities would be announced.
People are becoming more aware - now we have to get the politicians and the bureaucrats to understand
Some 36 people have died climbing Uluru – the latest in 2010 – and more have been injured, causing grief to local Indigenous people who believe they have a duty of care to those visiting their country.
Mr Forrester said traditional owners were "very disappointed" the government would continue to allow tourists to keep clambering over Uluru, which he described as "the soul of the country".
"Uluru is sacred. People are becoming more aware - now we have to get the politicians and the bureaucrats to understand," he said, adding "when there's an accident, it turns my guts."
Big Run Events managing director Greg Donovan, who proposed the Big Uluru Trek, backed the push for the climb to eventually cease.
"It's seen to be very intrusive to spirits and stories and special places for people to climb on the rock," he said.
"By taking that away, I don't think it would impact very greatly on tourism at all."



I told you the government has the final say Karnal. Grin Grin Grin


This is an article from 2016. Unless the government makes a similar announcement, it looks like the proposed 2019 ban is still on.
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Re: Racism, sacred cows and political correctness
Reply #389 - Nov 12th, 2017 at 12:30pm
 
Hang ten a week until the rest get the message... did that Bro get Captain Cook time for vandalising their sacred site by cutting chains or just a simple spearing...
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“Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence.”
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