Australian Politics Forum - Ahmadis sentenced to death for blasphemy

freediver

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Re: Ahmadis sentenced to death for blasphemy
Reply #165 - Nov 1^st, 2017 at 12:23pm

polite_gandalf wrote on Oct 31^st, 2017 at 1:02pm:

so your petty attack on me is no longer that I lied about having a source? Merely that I was "slippery" about where the source was?

freediver wrote on Oct 31^st, 2017 at 12:31pm:

As soon as you told me where the original source was, I found it.

If thats true, why did you continue on with the "gandalf's lying about having a source" jihad for several pages after I told you? It went right up until yesterday when you were still whinging about not being able to find any link. This is despite me telling you where the original source was a full 3 days, and 4 pages earlier (post#87)

Can you understand my bemusement when you insinuate that I had no source, complete with your usual petty "slippery muslim" ad-hom routine - right after you directly quoted it? FD do you usually quote something without having a clue as to what its about?

freediver wrote on Oct 31^st, 2017 at 12:31pm:

I could not have been clearer. I quoted you. I asked where you got it from.

You posted a massive quote bomb which contained at least 3 separate claims - and then tried to pass this off as one claim that I lied about having a source for. How could you possible say with a straight face this "could not have been clearer"? One of the things you quoted was my claim about imperialism deaths that I made abundantly clear from the very beginning had no source, and that it was merely a statement of "the bleeding obvious". I explained this at least 2 times for you FD, and still you quoted it as part of your demand for a source. Why was that FD? I even asked you to clarify what specifically in that massive quote bomb you took issue with - and you responded with your usual childish tantrum.

Its almost as if you deliberately set out to be vague and confusing - so that when I inevitably protest at your vagueness, you can just fall back to your standard 'slippery muslim' ad hom. I'm beginning to think this is a deliberate set strategy of yours.

It was crystal clear Gandalf. I quoted the passage I was asking you to back up. How could you possibly be confused about that?

I quoted them several times. You lie again when you accuse me of using a quote bomb that left you unsure which bits I was asking about. I quoted the specific sentences over and over prior to that, and only quoted both posts in their entirety when you lied by claiming the link was in that post. Again, I made it crystal clear that this was the reason for quoting the whole post.

You lied about providing a link in the post. Now, if you provided a link in a different post, which it turns out you did for one of the two quotes I was asking about, the obvious thing to do would be to say so, without doing the slippery Muslim routine for pages and pages. Even better would have been to not pass off the text you copied and pasted as your own words.

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Karnal

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Re: Ahmadis sentenced to death for blasphemy
Reply #166 - Nov 1^st, 2017 at 1:11pm

freediver wrote on Nov 1^st, 2017 at 12:23pm:

polite_gandalf wrote on Oct 31^st, 2017 at 1:02pm:

so your petty attack on me is no longer that I lied about having a source? Merely that I was "slippery" about where the source was?

freediver wrote on Oct 31^st, 2017 at 12:31pm:

As soon as you told me where the original source was, I found it.

If thats true, why did you continue on with the "gandalf's lying about having a source" jihad for several pages after I told you? It went right up until yesterday when you were still whinging about not being able to find any link. This is despite me telling you where the original source was a full 3 days, and 4 pages earlier (post#87)

Can you understand my bemusement when you insinuate that I had no source, complete with your usual petty "slippery muslim" ad-hom routine - right after you directly quoted it? FD do you usually quote something without having a clue as to what its about?

freediver wrote on Oct 31^st, 2017 at 12:31pm:

I could not have been clearer. I quoted you. I asked where you got it from.

You posted a massive quote bomb which contained at least 3 separate claims - and then tried to pass this off as one claim that I lied about having a source for. How could you possible say with a straight face this "could not have been clearer"? One of the things you quoted was my claim about imperialism deaths that I made abundantly clear from the very beginning had no source, and that it was merely a statement of "the bleeding obvious". I explained this at least 2 times for you FD, and still you quoted it as part of your demand for a source. Why was that FD? I even asked you to clarify what specifically in that massive quote bomb you took issue with - and you responded with your usual childish tantrum.

Its almost as if you deliberately set out to be vague and confusing - so that when I inevitably protest at your vagueness, you can just fall back to your standard 'slippery muslim' ad hom. I'm beginning to think this is a deliberate set strategy of yours.

It was crystal clear Gandalf. I quoted the passage I was asking you to back up. How could you possibly be confused about that?

I quoted them several times. You lie again when you accuse me of using a quote bomb that left you unsure which bits I was asking about. I quoted the specific sentences over and over prior to that, and only quoted both posts in their entirety when you lied by claiming the link was in that post. Again, I made it crystal clear that this was the reason for quoting the whole post.

You lied about providing a link in the post. Now, if you provided a link in a different post, which it turns out you did for one of the two quotes I was asking about, the obvious thing to do would be to say so, without doing the slippery Muslim routine for pages and pages. Even better would have been to not pass off the text you copied and pasted as your own words.

That's nice, FD. Are you ready to move on and return to our discussion or would you rather do the slippery Muslim routine for pages and pages?

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polite_gandalf

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Re: Ahmadis sentenced to death for blasphemy
Reply #167 - Nov 1^st, 2017 at 2:06pm

freediver wrote on Nov 1^st, 2017 at 12:23pm:

You lied about providing a link in the post. Now, if you provided a link in a different post, which it turns out you did for one of the two quotes I was asking about, the obvious thing to do would be to say so,

I did say so FD. I never said there was a post that contained a link which wasn't there. I only ever said I sourced my claim in the post I quoted it in. I never said I provided the same source in subsequent posts in which the claim was repeated. Why would I? The problem here is that you originally didn't believe me when I said the claim had been sourced in my post - since your first response was a sarcastic 'did you post it here or some random place in the last 6 months'. At first I simply couldn't believe you didn't know what post I was referring to - given that a) it was literally the only source I had posted on the topic in this thread and b) you yourself had directly quoted it. After it became obvious you really were clueless, I provided the post# in which the claim was made. Now that you are unable to sustain your original insinuation that there was no source, you've just resorted to some really incoherent and sad ranting about lying about this and that, and apparently attempted plagiarizing or some such. All because you refuse to pay attention to what people actually post - to the extent that you will actually quote someone without having any idea what that quote says. And then when your (willful) ignorance is called out, you insist the onus is on someone else to spoon feed to you what you flatly refuse to comprehend yourself.

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A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
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Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.

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polite_gandalf

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Re: Ahmadis sentenced to death for blasphemy
Reply #168 - Nov 1^st, 2017 at 2:12pm

freediver wrote on Nov 1^st, 2017 at 12:23pm:

Now, if you provided a link in a different post, which it turns out you did for one of the two quotes I was asking about

What about the other quote FD? That was the European imperialism death toll remember?

Has it sunk in yet that I explained to you from the very beginning there was no source for that? Do you understand that even after explaining this to you, immediately and clearly, you continued to ask me, while throwing tantrums about me lying about sources?

Do you get what I'm saying about you refusing to listen and comprehend what people actually tell you, which causes you to wrongly fly off into incoherent tantrums about "slippery muslims" who won't explain things clearly to you?

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A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
Quote:

Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.

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Karnal

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Re: Ahmadis sentenced to death for blasphemy
Reply #169 - Nov 1^st, 2017 at 2:55pm

polite_gandalf wrote on Nov 1^st, 2017 at 2:12pm:

freediver wrote on Nov 1^st, 2017 at 12:23pm:

Now, if you provided a link in a different post, which it turns out you did for one of the two quotes I was asking about

What about the other quote FD? That was the European imperialism death toll remember?

Has it sunk in yet that I explained to you from the very beginning there was no source for that? Do you understand that even after explaining this to you, immediately and clearly, you continued to ask me, while throwing tantrums about me lying about sources?

Do you get what I'm saying about you refusing to listen and comprehend what people actually tell you, which causes you to wrongly fly off into incoherent tantrums about "slippery muslims" who won't explain things clearly to you?

Maybe you could ask FD a question about what it actually says, G.

A novel approach, I know.

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freediver

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Re: Ahmadis sentenced to death for blasphemy
Reply #170 - Nov 1^st, 2017 at 7:10pm

polite_gandalf wrote on Nov 1^st, 2017 at 2:12pm:

freediver wrote on Nov 1^st, 2017 at 12:23pm:

Now, if you provided a link in a different post, which it turns out you did for one of the two quotes I was asking about

What about the other quote FD? That was the European imperialism death toll remember?

Has it sunk in yet that I explained to you from the very beginning there was no source for that? Do you understand that even after explaining this to you, immediately and clearly, you continued to ask me, while throwing tantrums about me lying about sources?

Do you get what I'm saying about you refusing to listen and comprehend what people actually tell you, which causes you to wrongly fly off into incoherent tantrums about "slippery muslims" who won't explain things clearly to you?

You are lying again Gandalf. Your first response was to quote some numbers from the Congo and ask me to guess some numbers. The second response was to claim it is stating the bleeding obvious, offering to add the numbers up, then again ask me what the numbers are. This is also the response when you lied about quoting the first source - or is this a vague reference to thefact that it is a direct quote passed off as your own work? Your third response was back to the congo. You did not explain there was no source, though with your slippery Muslim routine it quickly became obvious you were making up nonsense.

Let's consider the claim:

Quote:

On planet earth, in the actual past, western nations killed a lot of muslims to build themselves extraordinarily profitable empires. In fact they occupied virtually all of the muslim world at one point - as well as great swathes of the rest of the world. In the process they directly slaughtered or were responsible for the death of more people than at any time in the history of mankind. Even more than the muslims. This was in pursuit of wealth, not some altruistic campaign against slavery or rape.

I have included the whole paragraph this time. But don't get confused, I have highlighted the bit I am asking you about.

Am I correct that this claim is largely based on you blaming them for diseases that were introduced to the new world, as well as the weather? And that you justify this by characterising the spread of old world diseases through the new world by examples when it was done deliberately? And that you constantly ask me to guess the numbers, but will not say how many you think were killed? It's a bit hard to tell because you cite one or two specific examples as justification for such a sweeping generalisation.

Is the "directly slaughtered" number even significant, or did you just throw this in so it was not so obvious you were comparing the death toll from disease and drought with the Islami prediliction for rape and pillage?

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Justsayno

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Re: Ahmadis sentenced to death for blasphemy
Reply #171 - Nov 1^st, 2017 at 7:18pm

freediver wrote on Nov 1^st, 2017 at 7:10pm:

polite_gandalf wrote on Nov 1^st, 2017 at 2:12pm:

freediver wrote on Nov 1^st, 2017 at 12:23pm:

Now, if you provided a link in a different post, which it turns out you did for one of the two quotes I was asking about

What about the other quote FD? That was the European imperialism death toll remember?

Has it sunk in yet that I explained to you from the very beginning there was no source for that? Do you understand that even after explaining this to you, immediately and clearly, you continued to ask me, while throwing tantrums about me lying about sources?

Do you get what I'm saying about you refusing to listen and comprehend what people actually tell you, which causes you to wrongly fly off into incoherent tantrums about "slippery muslims" who won't explain things clearly to you?

You are lying again Gandalf. Your first response was to quote some numbers from the Congo and ask me to guess some numbers. The second response was to claim it is stating the bleeding obvious, offering to add the numbers up, then again ask me what the numbers are. This is also the response when you lied about quoting the first source - or is this a vague reference to thefact that it is a direct quote passed off as your own work? Your third response was back to the congo. You did not explain there was no source, though with your slippery Muslim routine it quickly became obvious you were making up nonsense.

Let's consider the claim:

Quote:

On planet earth, in the actual past, western nations killed a lot of muslims to build themselves extraordinarily profitable empires. In fact they occupied virtually all of the muslim world at one point - as well as great swathes of the rest of the world. In the process they directly slaughtered or were responsible for the death of more people than at any time in the history of mankind. Even more than the muslims. This was in pursuit of wealth, not some altruistic campaign against slavery or rape.

I have included the whole paragraph this time. But don't get confused, I have highlighted the bit I am asking you about.

Am I correct that this claim is largely based on you blaming them for diseases that were introduced to the new world, as well as the weather? And that you justify this by characterising the spread of old world diseases through the new world by examples when it was done deliberately? And that you constantly ask me to guess the numbers, but will not say how many you think were killed? It's a bit hard to tell because you cite one or two specific examples as justification for such a sweeping generalisation.

Is the "directly slaughtered" number even significant, or did you just throw this in so it was not so obvious you were comparing the death toll from disease and drought with the Islami prediliction for rape and pillage?

I would like an answer to the questions posed as well please Gandalf, if you are amenable.

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Justsayno Go home and have talk to your fictitious autistic son, looser.

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Karnal

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Re: Ahmadis sentenced to death for blasphemy
Reply #172 - Nov 1^st, 2017 at 7:31pm

I would like an answer to the question posed too please, FD. I've tried asking it, repeating it, answering all your questions, agreeing with you, saying ah, saying please, and I've tried repeating the question again.

So far, nothing.

Apart from calling you a jellyfish and having you banned, is there a more effective method?

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Karnal Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 98973	Re: Ahmadis sentenced to death for blasphemy Reply #173 - Nov 1^st, 2017 at 7:37pm Ee-gad, he's gone. Oh well. At least we'll always have you, Matty.
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polite_gandalf

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Re: Ahmadis sentenced to death for blasphemy
Reply #174 - Nov 2^nd, 2017 at 7:03am

freediver wrote on Nov 1^st, 2017 at 7:10pm:

Am I correct that this claim is largely based on you blaming them for diseases that were introduced to the new world, as well as the weather? And that you justify this by characterising the spread of old world diseases through the new world by examples when it was done deliberately? And that you constantly ask me to guess the numbers, but will not say how many you think were killed? It's a bit hard to tell because you cite one or two specific examples as justification for such a sweeping generalisation.

Yes FD, I mentioned the weather didn't I. Roll Eyes

You know what? I think I've been very clear and logical in my point about this, I don't think I'll partake in your little game of 'find novel ways of twisting gandalf's words'. You can either read and understand what I've actually said, and debate like an adult, or stay out of the discussion. And why do you keep accusing me of not wanting to say how many were killed? I have stated at least twice now that I don't know - other than undoubtedly being in the many millions. Do you actually disagree that the number of people killed as a result of European imperialism run into the many millions? You haven't actually said. Presumably because you are terrified of acknowledging the true horror of European colonialism. You don't even have to agree they were morally responsible in all cases (if you really think that inadvertently spreading disease as they raped and pillaged is not their responsibility)

Quote:

the Islami prediliction for rape and pillage?

Do you agree that more people were killed by rape and pillage in just ~300 years of European colonialism than were similarly killed over the entire 1400 years of muslim conquering? Do you reckon the muslims even got close to the 8 million killed by the Spanish in the Americas alone? (and yes I sourced that one)

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A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
Quote:

Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.

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freediver

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Re: Ahmadis sentenced to death for blasphemy
Reply #175 - Nov 2^nd, 2017 at 12:13pm

Quote:

Yes FD, I mentioned the weather didn't I.

Some of the evidence you provided did. Did you read your own evidence Gandalf?

Quote:

You know what? I think I've been very clear and logical in my point about this, I don't think I'll partake in your little game of 'find novel ways of twisting gandalf's words'.

Am I wrong Gandalf, or just putting the wrong spin on it?

Quote:

I have stated at least twice now that I don't know - other than undoubtedly being in the many millions.

And "being in the millions" makes it more deaths than any other period in history? Has it dawned on you how silly this is? Is that why you are being so evasive?

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People who can't distinguish between etymology and entomology bug me in ways I cannot put into words.

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polite_gandalf

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Re: Ahmadis sentenced to death for blasphemy
Reply #176 - Nov 2^nd, 2017 at 3:18pm

freediver wrote on Nov 2^nd, 2017 at 12:13pm:

And "being in the millions" makes it more deaths than any other period in history? Has it dawned on you how silly this is? Is that why you are being so evasive?

So saying I don't know is being evasive is it FD?

Speaking of evasive, can you think of another period in history where so many people were killed by one civilization invading and raping and pillaging so many places? Do you agree that more people died as a result of ~300 years of European invasions and occupations than the number who died as a result of 1400 years of muslim invasions and occupations?

See if you can ignore me again and tell me I'm the evasive one with a straight face.

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A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
Quote:

Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.

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Karnal Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 98973	Re: Ahmadis sentenced to death for blasphemy Reply #177 - Nov 2^nd, 2017 at 5:13pm freediver wrote on Nov 2^nd, 2017 at 12:13pm: Is that why you are being so evasive? Oh, I know.
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Justsayno

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Re: Ahmadis sentenced to death for blasphemy
Reply #178 - Nov 2^nd, 2017 at 7:00pm

polite_gandalf wrote on Nov 2^nd, 2017 at 3:18pm:

Do you agree that more people died as a result of ~300 years of European invasions and occupations

I would be interested to know if you have details on your assertion, if able Gandalf.

As opposed to your belief that .............
polite_gandalf wrote on Nov 2^nd, 2017 at 3:18pm:

invasions and occupations than the number who died as a result of 1400 years of muslim invasions and occupations

Appears to be a tall order, but i look forward to your viewpoint.

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Justsayno Go home and have talk to your fictitious autistic son, looser.

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freediver

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Re: Ahmadis sentenced to death for blasphemy
Reply #179 - Nov 2^nd, 2017 at 7:07pm

Quote:

Speaking of evasive, can you think of another period in history where so many people were killed by on

Given that you won't say how many, I wouldn't know where to begin. But "in the millions" is far from unique, especially for a period spanning centuries. Also, what period of time are you including? After all, we are still occupying Muslim lands, right?

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People who can't distinguish between etymology and entomology bug me in ways I cannot put into words.

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