Australian Politics Forum - The Dole Sink-Holes in Australia ...

Gnads

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Re: The Dole Sink-Holes in Australia ...
Reply #60 - Oct 11^th, 2017 at 12:37pm

mothra wrote on Oct 11^th, 2017 at 12:19pm:

Gnads wrote on Oct 11^th, 2017 at 12:17pm:

Just a pre-empt here before I read any further ...

the Age Pension for someone that has worked most of their life is not.....

WELFARE.

Of course it is, Gnads.

Why would that be a bad thing?

because the tack being taken is to try & say that someone who may be getting a pension ....

is in the same demographic as generational dole bludgers & immigrants that stay on welfare for years & years after arriving here.

Initially a small portion of your tax dollar was put aside in a fund that was used to finance pensions for those that reached retirement age & didn't have superannuation or much savings ......

this fund money was then just thrown into internal revenue for the general welfare budget.

A retired worker being on the Age Pension was not classed as being on welfare/the dole.

Trying to score points by saying these people are living off welfare after they have contributed to it just like paying into Super is not right.

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Gnads

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Re: The Dole Sink-Holes in Australia ...
Reply #61 - Oct 11^th, 2017 at 12:39pm

greggerypeccary wrote on Oct 11^th, 2017 at 12:21pm:

Gnads wrote on Oct 11^th, 2017 at 12:17pm:

Mattyfisk wrote on Oct 9^th, 2017 at 7:51pm:

Lord Herbert wrote on Oct 9^th, 2017 at 5:27pm:

.. link

Blacktown's on the list, and that's because this Sydney outer suburb is stiff with Africans, and in all truth I'm reluctant to call them 'bludgers'. The manufacturing industries have gone off-shore, and so these guys have been left 'warehoused' with not too many job options available to them.

'Auburn' ... ie. Muslim Central.

So! Craigieburn, Victoria. Let's have a look at the demographic, shall we?

Oh no, I didn't expect this at all ... This comes as quite a shock. Cool

Quote: "Language:-

English was stated as the only language spoken at home by 50.1% of persons usually resident in Craigieburn, which is less than the Australian average of 76.8%."

ie 50% don't speak English at home .....

Dear O Dear O Dear ....

Next:

"Religion:-

In the 2011 Census, the most common responses for religious affiliation for persons usually resident in Craigieburn were Catholic 39.8%, No Religion 10.8%, Anglican 6.4%, Eastern Orthodox 5.1% and Islam 14.9%, Compared to Australia as a whole, Craigieburn has more Catholics (39.8% compared to 25.3%), fewer Anglicans (6.4% compared to 17.1%), more Eastern Orthodox (5.1% compared to 2.6%), and more Muslims (14.9% compared to 2.2%)."

Dear O Dear O Dear ... WHY are we not surprised?

Yes ... it's another rat's nest of Muslims over there, just like in Auburn.

No job within 3 years? Deportation.

What income are you on, Herbie?

I'm curious.

Just a pre-empt here before I read any further ...

the Age Pension for someone that has worked most of their life is not.....

WELFARE.

Um, yes it is.

Welfare isn't a bad word.

Ummmm no it's not.

If they have worked & payed tax it is just like paying into Super.

They've earned it.

It's how pensions are funded in the UK & used to be here until useless Politicians stuffed it up.

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"When you are dead, you do not know you are dead. It's only painful and difficult for others. The same applies when you are stupid." ~ Ricky Gervais

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greggerypeccary Gold Member Online Australian Politics Posts: 131666 Gender:	Re: The Dole Sink-Holes in Australia ... Reply #62 - Oct 11^th, 2017 at 12:42pm Gnads wrote on Oct 11^th, 2017 at 12:37pm: A retired worker being on the Age Pension was not classed as being on welfare/the dole. The Age Pension is for people older than the working age. The Dole is for the unemployed. They are both welfare.
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mothra

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Re: The Dole Sink-Holes in Australia ...
Reply #63 - Oct 11^th, 2017 at 12:44pm

Gnads wrote on Oct 11^th, 2017 at 12:37pm:

mothra wrote on Oct 11^th, 2017 at 12:19pm:

Gnads wrote on Oct 11^th, 2017 at 12:17pm:

Just a pre-empt here before I read any further ...

the Age Pension for someone that has worked most of their life is not.....

WELFARE.

Of course it is, Gnads.

Why would that be a bad thing?

because the tack being taken is to try & say that someone who may be getting a pension ....

is in the same demographic as generational dole bludgers & immigrants that stay on welfare for years & years after arriving here.

Initially a small portion of your tax dollar was put aside in a fund that was used to finance pensions for those that reached retirement age & didn't have superannuation or much savings ......

this fund money was then just thrown into internal revenue for the general welfare budget.

A retired worker being on the Age Pension was not classed as being on welfare/the dole.

Trying to score points by saying these people are living off welfare after they have contributed to it just like paying into Super is not right.

Ahhh. So in your mind, some people receiving a government allowance are just better people than other sorts and you would like to change the name of what they receive to reflect that.

What about people receiving the DSP for work related injuries?

What about parents who have been abandoned by their co-parent and left to care for young children with no support?

What about someone laid off and forced to collect benefits?

Would you like separate categories for each of them so we know how to judge them appropriately?

Of course, removing the stigma for welfare is a step beyond us as a species just yet.

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If you can't be a good example, you have to be a horrible warning.

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Gnads

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Re: The Dole Sink-Holes in Australia ...
Reply #64 - Oct 11^th, 2017 at 12:47pm

greggerypeccary wrote on Oct 11^th, 2017 at 12:42pm:

Gnads wrote on Oct 11^th, 2017 at 12:37pm:

A retired worker being on the Age Pension was not classed as being on welfare/the dole.

The Age Pension is for people older than the working age.

The Dole is for the unemployed.

They are both welfare.

Pedantic Peccarhead.

If you reached retirement age & qualified for the Pension it was not classed as welfare and it shouldn't be now.

And I have explained why.

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"When you are dead, you do not know you are dead. It's only painful and difficult for others. The same applies when you are stupid." ~ Ricky Gervais

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greggerypeccary

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Re: The Dole Sink-Holes in Australia ...
Reply #65 - Oct 11^th, 2017 at 12:48pm

Gnads wrote on Oct 11^th, 2017 at 12:39pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Oct 11^th, 2017 at 12:21pm:

Gnads wrote on Oct 11^th, 2017 at 12:17pm:

Mattyfisk wrote on Oct 9^th, 2017 at 7:51pm:

Lord Herbert wrote on Oct 9^th, 2017 at 5:27pm:

.. link

Blacktown's on the list, and that's because this Sydney outer suburb is stiff with Africans, and in all truth I'm reluctant to call them 'bludgers'. The manufacturing industries have gone off-shore, and so these guys have been left 'warehoused' with not too many job options available to them.

'Auburn' ... ie. Muslim Central.

So! Craigieburn, Victoria. Let's have a look at the demographic, shall we?

Oh no, I didn't expect this at all ... This comes as quite a shock. Cool

Quote: "Language:-

English was stated as the only language spoken at home by 50.1% of persons usually resident in Craigieburn, which is less than the Australian average of 76.8%."

ie 50% don't speak English at home .....

Dear O Dear O Dear ....

Next:

"Religion:-

In the 2011 Census, the most common responses for religious affiliation for persons usually resident in Craigieburn were Catholic 39.8%, No Religion 10.8%, Anglican 6.4%, Eastern Orthodox 5.1% and Islam 14.9%, Compared to Australia as a whole, Craigieburn has more Catholics (39.8% compared to 25.3%), fewer Anglicans (6.4% compared to 17.1%), more Eastern Orthodox (5.1% compared to 2.6%), and more Muslims (14.9% compared to 2.2%)."

Dear O Dear O Dear ... WHY are we not surprised?

Yes ... it's another rat's nest of Muslims over there, just like in Auburn.

No job within 3 years? Deportation.

What income are you on, Herbie?

I'm curious.

Just a pre-empt here before I read any further ...

the Age Pension for someone that has worked most of their life is not.....

WELFARE.

Um, yes it is.

Welfare isn't a bad word.

Ummmm no it's not.

It most certainly is.

With all due respect, I don't think you understand what welfare is.

The Age Pension is a welfare payment.

And again, 'welfare' is not a dirty word.

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greggerypeccary

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Re: The Dole Sink-Holes in Australia ...
Reply #66 - Oct 11^th, 2017 at 12:49pm

Gnads wrote on Oct 11^th, 2017 at 12:47pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Oct 11^th, 2017 at 12:42pm:

Gnads wrote on Oct 11^th, 2017 at 12:37pm:

A retired worker being on the Age Pension was not classed as being on welfare/the dole.

The Age Pension is for people older than the working age.

The Dole is for the unemployed.

They are both welfare.

Pedantic Peccarhead.

If you reached retirement age & qualified for the Pension it was not classed as welfare and it shouldn't be now.

And I have explained why.

I'm not being pedantic.

I'm just stating the facts: the Age Pension is welfare.

And, for the third time, 'welfare' is NOT a dirty word.

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Grappler Truth Teller Feller Gold Member Online Australian Politics Posts: 80389 Proud pre-1850's NO Voter Gender:	Re: The Dole Sink-Holes in Australia ... Reply #67 - Oct 11^th, 2017 at 12:51pm Incorrect - the INTENTION of the aged pension is welfare/wellbeing etc - its manifestation is Social Security bought and paid for. Do not confuse the two, this room is full of the lowest kinds just waiting for you to make a slip...
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Gnads

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Re: The Dole Sink-Holes in Australia ...
Reply #68 - Oct 11^th, 2017 at 12:54pm

mothra wrote on Oct 11^th, 2017 at 12:44pm:

Gnads wrote on Oct 11^th, 2017 at 12:37pm:

mothra wrote on Oct 11^th, 2017 at 12:19pm:

Gnads wrote on Oct 11^th, 2017 at 12:17pm:

Just a pre-empt here before I read any further ...

the Age Pension for someone that has worked most of their life is not.....

WELFARE.

Of course it is, Gnads.

Why would that be a bad thing?

because the tack being taken is to try & say that someone who may be getting a pension ....

is in the same demographic as generational dole bludgers & immigrants that stay on welfare for years & years after arriving here.

Initially a small portion of your tax dollar was put aside in a fund that was used to finance pensions for those that reached retirement age & didn't have superannuation or much savings ......

this fund money was then just thrown into internal revenue for the general welfare budget.

A retired worker being on the Age Pension was not classed as being on welfare/the dole.

Trying to score points by saying these people are living off welfare after they have contributed to it just like paying into Super is not right.

Ahhh. So in your mind, some people receiving a government allowance are just better people than other sorts and you would like to change the name of what they receive to reflect that.

What about people receiving the DSP for work related injuries?

What about parents who have been abandoned by their co-parent and left to care for young children with no support?

What about someone laid off and forced to collect benefits?

Would you like separate categories for each of them so we know how to judge them appropriately?

Of course, removing the stigma for welfare is a step beyond us as a species just yet.

Pure assumption.

The DSP is a complete other matter .... & that could happen to someone early in there working life or later on ... much to do with compensation cases.

besides it's also another benefit open to rorting by dole blugers ... & those with alcohol & drug habits.

People laid off are again another matter.....

and no .... no separation for those instances.

Lumping people on the pension - for which they've paid ...

and to which I pay .... even though I also pay into Superannuation ....

is not Welfare .... they've fecken earned it. Roll Eyes

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Grappler Truth Teller Feller

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Re: The Dole Sink-Holes in Australia ...
Reply #69 - Oct 11^th, 2017 at 12:55pm

'welfare' is a dirty word in the hands of the wrong people..... never be mislead. Saying the pension is 'welfare' makes it optional and discretionary and infinitely malleable and available to be curtailed without notice at the hands of the government, rather than the established bought and paid for right that it is.

Now - let us leave pejorative terms such as 'welfare' out of discussion of Social Security Rights.

If a pensioner wants welfare, they go to a charity - Pension is NOT charity.

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“Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence.”
― John Adams

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mothra

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Re: The Dole Sink-Holes in Australia ...
Reply #70 - Oct 11^th, 2017 at 12:56pm

Gnads wrote on Oct 11^th, 2017 at 12:54pm:

Of course, removing the stigma for welfare is a step beyond us as a species just yet.

Pure assumption.

The DSP is a complete other matter .... & that could happen to someone early in there working life or later on ... much to do with compensation cases.

besides it's also another benefit open to rorting by dole blugers ... & those with alcohol & drug habits.

People laid off are again another matter.....

and no .... no separation for those instances.

Lumping people on the pension - for which they've paid ...

and to which I pay .... even though I also pay into Superannuation ....

is not Welfare .... they've fecken earned it. Roll Eyes

[/quote]

Sorry to break it to you, Gnads, but it is indeed welfare.

there is nothing wrong with welfare.

You're just going to have to quietly nurse your prejudices whilst being aware of just how wrong you are.

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If you can't be a good example, you have to be a horrible warning.

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Gnads

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Re: The Dole Sink-Holes in Australia ...
Reply #71 - Oct 11^th, 2017 at 12:59pm

greggerypeccary wrote on Oct 11^th, 2017 at 12:49pm:

Gnads wrote on Oct 11^th, 2017 at 12:47pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Oct 11^th, 2017 at 12:42pm:

Gnads wrote on Oct 11^th, 2017 at 12:37pm:

A retired worker being on the Age Pension was not classed as being on welfare/the dole.

The Age Pension is for people older than the working age.

The Dole is for the unemployed.

They are both welfare.

Pedantic Peccarhead.

If you reached retirement age & qualified for the Pension it was not classed as welfare and it shouldn't be now.

And I have explained why.

I'm not being pedantic.

I'm just stating the facts: the Age Pension is welfare.

And, for the third time, 'welfare' is NOT a dirty word.

BS ... if you've paid into something your whole working life .... just like a savings account ...

when you reach retirement age you're entitled to collect.

It's not fecken welfare .....

they aren't looking after you & they are not being benevolent/charitible.

It has nothing to do with "welfare" being a dirty word or not.

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"When you are dead, you do not know you are dead. It's only painful and difficult for others. The same applies when you are stupid." ~ Ricky Gervais

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greggerypeccary Gold Member Online Australian Politics Posts: 131666 Gender:	Re: The Dole Sink-Holes in Australia ... Reply #72 - Oct 11^th, 2017 at 1:01pm This is a good read: http://parlinfo.aph.gov.au/parlInfo/download/library/prspub/4262560/upload_binar...
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greggerypeccary

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Re: The Dole Sink-Holes in Australia ...
Reply #73 - Oct 11^th, 2017 at 1:04pm

Gnads wrote on Oct 11^th, 2017 at 12:59pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Oct 11^th, 2017 at 12:49pm:

Gnads wrote on Oct 11^th, 2017 at 12:47pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Oct 11^th, 2017 at 12:42pm:

Gnads wrote on Oct 11^th, 2017 at 12:37pm:

A retired worker being on the Age Pension was not classed as being on welfare/the dole.

The Age Pension is for people older than the working age.

The Dole is for the unemployed.

They are both welfare.

Pedantic Peccarhead.

If you reached retirement age & qualified for the Pension it was not classed as welfare and it shouldn't be now.

And I have explained why.

I'm not being pedantic.

I'm just stating the facts: the Age Pension is welfare.

And, for the third time, 'welfare' is NOT a dirty word.

BS ... if you've paid into something your whole working life .... just like a savings account ...

when you reach retirement age you're entitled to collect.

It's not fecken welfare .....

they aren't looking after you & they are not being benevolent/charitible.

It has nothing to do with "welfare" being a dirty word or not.

Answer me this: if you don't work your entire life, are you still entitled to the Age Pension when you reach retirement age?

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mothra Gold Member Online Australian Politics Posts: 34587 Gender:	Re: The Dole Sink-Holes in Australia ... Reply #74 - Oct 11^th, 2017 at 1:06pm greggerypeccary wrote on Oct 11^th, 2017 at 1:04pm: Answer me this: if you don't work your entire life, are you still entitled to the Age Pension when you reach retirement age? I think we need a new classification for those people, Greg. Bludgers just seems so mean.
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