sir prince duke alevine wrote on Sep 7^th, 2017 at 6:42pm:


Not at all. Indian and Jewish Orthodox communities are economic systems.

Perhaps the biggest change to our own society was the inclusion of women in the labour market. This took them out of unpaid labour and onto wages. This had massive consequences, for both women's autonomy and male employment. It impacted on our own shift to a service econony. The structural unemployment of the 80s and 90s was not just about the loss of manufacturing, but the inclusion of women in the labour market.

The debate around this was constructed carefully,  but there was a lot of political and social opposition to this shift - from both the church and disgruntled men.

The Middle East and Central Asia has not made this transition. For them, there was no sexual revolution at all. Sure, it's different in the cities and amongst the growing middle class, but in the rural heartland of countries like India, life goes on as it has for centuries.

FD's inbreeding map doesn't capture this. If its data is true at all, it just describes national averages. This is probably an accurate reflection of a very traditional tribal country like Saudi Arabia, but not of a heterogenous country like Egypt, for example, or India.

Blaming Islam for the preservation of traditional economic functions is as shallow as blaming women's lib for our own economic shift. The expression of religion  - and women's movements - are a reflection of economic change, not the cause.

sir prince duke alevine wrote on Sep 7^th, 2017 at 6:56pm:


One is religious. The other (you can say this) identifies itself as a race.

mothra wrote on Sep 7^th, 2017 at 7:04pm:

I am not insulting anyone. I am being critical of an ideology that people, known by us as Muslims, follow, in the generalised majority of cases. Am I not allowed to be critical of this ideology?

And you can by all means generalise to the term Nazis for describing an ideology or belief that is common amongst Nazis. I don't really see what it has to do with skin colour, as opposed to belief system.   Can black people not be Nazis? Surprisingly, the people that Nazis's rallied against almost the same, if not more, as jews were the Slavs. And yet, there are many nazis in Bulgaria. So, you know, go figure, I'm sure black Nazis exist too.

And you have offended only in your complete lack of understanding.  Well, not so much offended, as much as disappointed.

sir prince duke alevine wrote on Sep 7^th, 2017 at 7:40pm:


Alevine, have you stopped to consider that not all Muslims think how you think they think? That owing to your prejudice, you may just have got it all wrong?

For example, Gandalf is considerably more humble and humane than yourself. Indeed than any of the harsh critics of Islam on this forum. Do you not think his religion may have influenced that? Or do you think a person can only be a decent Muslim despite their religion?

You have utterly failed to understand my meaning. Deliberately i suspect. Unless you accept that by virtue of being a white male, you may be associated with Nazi rapists, you are being a tremendous hypocrite.

I didn't miss it Alevine. You simply do not walk the walk. You heap condemnation on Islam and Muslims with relish. Daily. Nightly.

Have you stopped to consider that you are being offensive? Not to mention quite incorrect.

Do you care?

sir prince duke alevine wrote on Sep 7^th, 2017 at 7:51pm:



Yet there is an example of the result of that ideology right in front of you who is simply more humane, humble, intelligent, compassionate, reasonable and articulate than you and all of those who heap condemnation on him and what he believes.

There a millions of other examples throughout the world who present similarly.

Yet you use the words Islam and Muslim to denigrate .. and when you do so, you denigrate them, despite them being generally nicer people than you.

It is, as i have explained, no different to saying all men are potential rapists (what do we call women who say things like that) or that all white people who have negative views on difference amongst people are Nazis.

sir prince duke alevine wrote on Sep 7^th, 2017 at 7:36pm:


The social structure we're analysing - arranged marriages, dowries, the role of women's labour in child and aged care - predates religion. Hinduism and the teachings of Mohammed were applied to a pre-existing gendered economy.

Importantly, you can still be a Hindu, Muslim or Christian and live in a middle class nuclear family. You can still marry for love, and plenty do. The Middle East and Central Asia is full of urbanized women working in jobs and placing the kids in child care (or hiring nannies). Parts of the Middle East have full equality for women, especially in the public service. Parts of the labour narket are dominated by women, like teaching and medicine. Religion has had nothing to do with this economic transformation. If anything, Muslim capitals like Cairo, Beirut and Istanbul have advanced at a much faster pace than Indian cities like Mumbai and Delhi.