Australian Politics Forum - Rights of children must trump violent parents

mothra Gold Member Online Australian Politics Posts: 36847 Gender:	Re: Rights of children must trump violent parents Reply #30 - May 1^st, 2017 at 12:03pm John Smith wrote on May 1^st, 2017 at 12:00pm: mothra wrote on May 1^st, 2017 at 11:54am: Not according to the laws of this country. those same laws you want changed? Where did i say that, John?
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John Smith Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 78311 Gender:	Re: Rights of children must trump violent parents Reply #31 - May 1^st, 2017 at 12:04pm mothra wrote on May 1^st, 2017 at 12:03pm: John Smith wrote on May 1^st, 2017 at 12:00pm: mothra wrote on May 1^st, 2017 at 11:54am: Not according to the laws of this country. those same laws you want changed? Where did i say that, John? Rights of children must trump violent parents
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mothra

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Re: Rights of children must trump violent parents
Reply #32 - May 1^st, 2017 at 12:07pm

John Smith wrote on May 1^st, 2017 at 12:04pm:

mothra wrote on May 1^st, 2017 at 12:03pm:

John Smith wrote on May 1^st, 2017 at 12:00pm:

mothra wrote on May 1^st, 2017 at 11:54am:

Not according to the laws of this country.

those same laws you want changed?

Where did i say that, John?

Rights of children must trump violent parents

Yet we've established that spankings aren't violent in the eyes of the law of Australia.

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John Smith

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Re: Rights of children must trump violent parents
Reply #33 - May 1^st, 2017 at 12:10pm

mothra wrote on May 1^st, 2017 at 12:02pm:

John Smith wrote on May 1^st, 2017 at 11:59am:

mothra wrote on May 1^st, 2017 at 11:55am:

John Smith wrote on May 1^st, 2017 at 11:53am:

mothra wrote on May 1^st, 2017 at 11:49am:

John Smith wrote on May 1^st, 2017 at 11:48am:

mothra wrote on May 1^st, 2017 at 11:30am:

And did i really need to define "violence" for you John?

Don't you already have an understanding of what that is?

same as my previous comment

How would you define a violent spouse, John?

i wouldn't call someone who spanks their kids on occasion violent, unless they did it for their own pleasure.

We've already covered that. I asked you to define an abusive spouse.

someone who repeatedly and deliberately hits their spouse is probably the simplest definition I can think of at the moment.
I wouldn't call someone who lashes out once or twice, over an extended period of time, in a moment of uncontrolled rage as abusive.

If they respond with violence to "uncontrolled rage", what makes them a safe person to raise a child, who will push our buttons more than any spouse ever will?

I know a guy who when he was first married bashed his wife, twice, and he then spent the next 35- 40 yrs of marriage regretting it. He'll freely admit it if asked, he doesn't pretend it never happened. His kids are now mid 40's and he never once laid a finger on them. I know because we were and still remain best of friends (his kids and I). Over all, he was a pretty good dad to them. What deems him an unsafe person to have raised his kids?

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John Smith

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Re: Rights of children must trump violent parents
Reply #34 - May 1^st, 2017 at 12:13pm

mothra wrote on May 1^st, 2017 at 12:07pm:

John Smith wrote on May 1^st, 2017 at 12:04pm:

mothra wrote on May 1^st, 2017 at 12:03pm:

John Smith wrote on May 1^st, 2017 at 12:00pm:

mothra wrote on May 1^st, 2017 at 11:54am:

Not according to the laws of this country.

those same laws you want changed?

Where did i say that, John?

Rights of children must trump violent parents

Yet we've established that spankings aren't violent in the eyes of the law of Australia.

law also says parents have rights.

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I hope that bitch who was running their brothels for them gets raped with a cactus.

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mothra

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Re: Rights of children must trump violent parents
Reply #35 - May 1^st, 2017 at 12:19pm

John Smith wrote on May 1^st, 2017 at 12:10pm:

mothra wrote on May 1^st, 2017 at 12:02pm:

John Smith wrote on May 1^st, 2017 at 11:59am:

mothra wrote on May 1^st, 2017 at 11:55am:

John Smith wrote on May 1^st, 2017 at 11:53am:

mothra wrote on May 1^st, 2017 at 11:49am:

John Smith wrote on May 1^st, 2017 at 11:48am:

mothra wrote on May 1^st, 2017 at 11:30am:

And did i really need to define "violence" for you John?

Don't you already have an understanding of what that is?

same as my previous comment

How would you define a violent spouse, John?

i wouldn't call someone who spanks their kids on occasion violent, unless they did it for their own pleasure.

We've already covered that. I asked you to define an abusive spouse.

someone who repeatedly and deliberately hits their spouse is probably the simplest definition I can think of at the moment.
I wouldn't call someone who lashes out once or twice, over an extended period of time, in a moment of uncontrolled rage as abusive.

If they respond with violence to "uncontrolled rage", what makes them a safe person to raise a child, who will push our buttons more than any spouse ever will?

I know a guy who when he was first married bashed his wife, twice, and he then spent the next 35- 40 yrs of marriage regretting it. He'll freely admit it if asked, he doesn't pretend it never happened. His kids are now mid 40's and he never once laid a finger on them. I know because we were and still remain best of friends (his kids and I). Over all, he was a pretty good dad to them. What deems him an unsafe person to have raised his kids?

He's lucky she forgave him.

But surely you must admit that this is not a typical story. Generally, violence escalates over time.

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mothra

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Re: Rights of children must trump violent parents
Reply #36 - May 1^st, 2017 at 12:20pm

John Smith wrote on May 1^st, 2017 at 12:13pm:

mothra wrote on May 1^st, 2017 at 12:07pm:

John Smith wrote on May 1^st, 2017 at 12:04pm:

mothra wrote on May 1^st, 2017 at 12:03pm:

John Smith wrote on May 1^st, 2017 at 12:00pm:

mothra wrote on May 1^st, 2017 at 11:54am:

Not according to the laws of this country.

those same laws you want changed?

Where did i say that, John?

Rights of children must trump violent parents

Yet we've established that spankings aren't violent in the eyes of the law of Australia.

law also says parents have rights.

Which must come secondary to the rights of the child.

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mothra

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Re: Rights of children must trump violent parents
Reply #37 - May 1^st, 2017 at 12:25pm

I can't copy and paste from the transcript that Alinta gave the link for but it makes the salient point that had there been a court ordered Mental Health Assessment of Luke Batty's dad, that poor child could still be alive.

This is what i mean to highlight by this thread, not whether you spank your kid or not.

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John Smith

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Re: Rights of children must trump violent parents
Reply #38 - May 1^st, 2017 at 12:28pm

mothra wrote on May 1^st, 2017 at 12:19pm:

He's lucky she forgave him.

But surely you must admit that this is not a typical story. Generally, violence escalates over time.

typical or not (and I'm not convinced that it is as uncommon as you make out), your proposal would label him an abusive and violent husband and have taken his kids away from him

that's why I asked you to be more specific. I don't think 'labels' work. I think each case must be decided on it's own merit.

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mothra

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Re: Rights of children must trump violent parents
Reply #39 - May 1^st, 2017 at 12:29pm

John Smith wrote on May 1^st, 2017 at 12:28pm:

mothra wrote on May 1^st, 2017 at 12:20pm:

John Smith wrote on May 1^st, 2017 at 12:13pm:

mothra wrote on May 1^st, 2017 at 12:07pm:

John Smith wrote on May 1^st, 2017 at 12:04pm:

mothra wrote on May 1^st, 2017 at 12:03pm:

John Smith wrote on May 1^st, 2017 at 12:00pm:

mothra wrote on May 1^st, 2017 at 11:54am:

Not according to the laws of this country.

those same laws you want changed?

Where did i say that, John?

Rights of children must trump violent parents

Yet we've established that spankings aren't violent in the eyes of the law of Australia.

law also says parents have rights.

Which must come secondary to the rights of the child.

mothra wrote on May 1^st, 2017 at 12:19pm:

He's lucky she forgave him.

But surely you must admit that this is not a typical story. Generally, violence escalates over time.

typical or not (and I'm not convinced that it is as uncommon as you make out), your proposal would label him an abusive and violent husband and have taken his kids away from him

that's why I asked you to be more specific. I don't think 'labels' work. I think each case must be decided on it's own merit.

Did you actually read the OP, John?

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John Smith

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Re: Rights of children must trump violent parents
Reply #40 - May 1^st, 2017 at 12:30pm

mothra wrote on May 1^st, 2017 at 12:29pm:

John Smith wrote on May 1^st, 2017 at 12:28pm:

mothra wrote on May 1^st, 2017 at 12:20pm:

John Smith wrote on May 1^st, 2017 at 12:13pm:

mothra wrote on May 1^st, 2017 at 12:07pm:

John Smith wrote on May 1^st, 2017 at 12:04pm:

mothra wrote on May 1^st, 2017 at 12:03pm:

John Smith wrote on May 1^st, 2017 at 12:00pm:

mothra wrote on May 1^st, 2017 at 11:54am:

Not according to the laws of this country.

those same laws you want changed?

Where did i say that, John?

Rights of children must trump violent parents

Yet we've established that spankings aren't violent in the eyes of the law of Australia.

law also says parents have rights.

Which must come secondary to the rights of the child.

mothra wrote on May 1^st, 2017 at 12:19pm:

He's lucky she forgave him.

But surely you must admit that this is not a typical story. Generally, violence escalates over time.

typical or not (and I'm not convinced that it is as uncommon as you make out), your proposal would label him an abusive and violent husband and have taken his kids away from him

that's why I asked you to be more specific. I don't think 'labels' work. I think each case must be decided on it's own merit.

Did you actually read the OP, John?

nope, I'm still working on your thread title. Grin

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I hope that bitch who was running their brothels for them gets raped with a cactus.

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mothra Gold Member Online Australian Politics Posts: 36847 Gender:	Re: Rights of children must trump violent parents Reply #41 - May 1^st, 2017 at 12:30pm And i have made no proposal that children be disallowed from access to a parent. I have said that violence needs to be considered in custody and access cases.
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mothra

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Re: Rights of children must trump violent parents
Reply #42 - May 1^st, 2017 at 12:37pm

John Smith wrote on May 1^st, 2017 at 12:30pm:

mothra wrote on May 1^st, 2017 at 12:29pm:

John Smith wrote on May 1^st, 2017 at 12:28pm:

mothra wrote on May 1^st, 2017 at 12:20pm:

John Smith wrote on May 1^st, 2017 at 12:13pm:

mothra wrote on May 1^st, 2017 at 12:07pm:

John Smith wrote on May 1^st, 2017 at 12:04pm:

mothra wrote on May 1^st, 2017 at 12:03pm:

John Smith wrote on May 1^st, 2017 at 12:00pm:

mothra wrote on May 1^st, 2017 at 11:54am:

Not according to the laws of this country.

those same laws you want changed?

Where did i say that, John?

Rights of children must trump violent parents

Yet we've established that spankings aren't violent in the eyes of the law of Australia.

law also says parents have rights.

Which must come secondary to the rights of the child.

mothra wrote on May 1^st, 2017 at 12:19pm:

He's lucky she forgave him.

But surely you must admit that this is not a typical story. Generally, violence escalates over time.

typical or not (and I'm not convinced that it is as uncommon as you make out), your proposal would label him an abusive and violent husband and have taken his kids away from him

that's why I asked you to be more specific. I don't think 'labels' work. I think each case must be decided on it's own merit.

Did you actually read the OP, John?

nope, I'm still working on your thread title. Grin

Many of your questions will be answered by reading the article, John ... Wink

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John Smith

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Re: Rights of children must trump violent parents
Reply #43 - May 1^st, 2017 at 12:48pm

mothra wrote on May 1^st, 2017 at 12:37pm:

Many of your questions will be answered by reading the article, John ...

nope they weren't ....

"This notion you can be a great father and an abusive partner - it's not possible," says Professor Cathy Humphries, one of a handful of family violence experts who have supported Ms Batty through the harrowing coronial process.

take this guy for example, again they need to be specific on what they mean by 'abusive'. I don't buy the one glove fits all crap. Each case needs to be decided on it's own merits. Sure they should look at any abuse, but 'abuse' in and off itself should never automatically discount the fathers rights

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mothra

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Re: Rights of children must trump violent parents
Reply #44 - May 1^st, 2017 at 12:50pm

John Smith wrote on May 1^st, 2017 at 12:48pm:

mothra wrote on May 1^st, 2017 at 12:37pm:

Many of your questions will be answered by reading the article, John ...

nope they weren't ....

"This notion you can be a great father and an abusive partner - it's not possible," says Professor Cathy Humphries, one of a handful of family violence experts who have supported Ms Batty through the harrowing coronial process.

take this guy for example, again they need to be specific on what they mean by 'abusive'. I don't buy the one glove fits all crap. Each case needs to be decided on it's own merits. Sure they should look at any abuse, but 'abuse' in and off itself should never automatically discount the fathers rights

Look carefully at the terminology, John. She is talking of being a good parent and abusive spouse at the same time.

Are you arguing that if your friend did not immediately see he error of his ways and change he could have been a healthy parent?

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