Australian Politics Forum - lib policies really work!

stunspore

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lib policies really work!
Feb 11^th, 2016 at 7:36pm

http://www.theage.com.au/federal-politics/political-news/work-for-the-dole-has-l...

Now to demonstrate that I look at each policy by merit not party...

This policy has actually improved employment prospects. I'm not sure if it was worth $1B but for those who wouldn't have crossed the line it did for them.

Reminds me the story about the boy throwing starfish back into the sea that many of them got stranded on beach. A passerby said to the boy that his attempts won't make a difference. The boy who just threw one back in to the sea said "yeh but it did for that one".

Well...maybe time for libs to come up with a more effective (less victimisation) policy?

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BatteriesNotIncluded Gold Member Offline MediocrityNET: because people died for this! Posts: 26966	Re: lib policies really work! Reply #1 - Feb 11^th, 2016 at 7:42pm .. is the bad english for a reason?
Back to top	Sure....they're anti competitive as any subsidised job is. It wouldn't be there without the tax payer. Very damned difficult for a brainwashed collectivist to understand that I know.... (swaggy) IP Logged

macman Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 2435 australia Gender:	Re: lib policies really work! Reply #2 - Feb 11^th, 2016 at 7:48pm Just like every other policy these clowns try to push......FAIL.
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Sir Grappler Truth Teller OAM Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 89903 Proud Old White Australian Man Gender:	Re: lib policies really work! Reply #3 - Feb 11^th, 2016 at 7:49pm 'employment prospects' is a long way from 'employment'.... and is judged by a totally different yardstick... "Yeah... YEAH... we pumped that boy full of prospects for employment -- the best that money could buy.... but he still ain't got a job."
Back to top	“Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence.” ― John Adams IP Logged

BatteriesNotIncluded Gold Member Offline MediocrityNET: because people died for this! Posts: 26966	Re: lib policies really work! Reply #4 - Feb 11^th, 2016 at 7:50pm Does anyone have a clear criticism ?
Back to top	Sure....they're anti competitive as any subsidised job is. It wouldn't be there without the tax payer. Very damned difficult for a brainwashed collectivist to understand that I know.... (swaggy) IP Logged

BatteriesNotIncluded

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Re: lib policies really work!
Reply #5 - Feb 11^th, 2016 at 7:55pm

Sir Grappler Truth Teller OAM wrote on Feb 11^th, 2016 at 7:49pm:

'employment prospects' is a long way from 'employment'.... and is judged by a totally different yardstick...

"Yeah... YEAH... we pumped that boy full of prospects for employment -- the best that money could buy.... but he still ain't got a job."

The dole push people thru agencies and the employer knows keeping agencies rich is to their benefit. It is economy I suppose.. Roll Eyes

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*Sure....they're anti competitive as any subsidised job is. It wouldn't be there without the tax payer. Very damned difficult for a brainwashed collectivist to understand that I know.... (swaggy) *

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John Smith Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 78311 Gender:	Re: lib policies really work! Reply #6 - Feb 11^th, 2016 at 9:23pm is anyone actually surprised that work for the dole doesn't achieve anything ?
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oh dear

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Re: lib policies really work!
Reply #7 - Feb 11^th, 2016 at 9:31pm

John Smith wrote on Feb 11^th, 2016 at 9:23pm:

is anyone actually surprised that work for the dole doesn't achieve anything ?

No I'm not but I don't see the value in giving these people unskilled menial tasks. I see a better option in giving these people an opportunity at Tafe where they can learn real and valuable skills.

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John Smith

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Re: lib policies really work!
Reply #8 - Feb 11^th, 2016 at 9:33pm

oh dear wrote on Feb 11^th, 2016 at 9:31pm:

John Smith wrote on Feb 11^th, 2016 at 9:23pm:

is anyone actually surprised that work for the dole doesn't achieve anything ?

No I'm not but I don't see the value in giving these people unskilled menial tasks. I see a better option in giving these people an opportunity at Tafe where they can learn real and valuable skills.

they can't, they've shut down most of the tafe system ... whatever's left is in the pipeline to be sold off

Hokeynomics Cheesy

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Our esteemed leader:
I hope that bitch who was running their brothels for them gets raped with a cactus.

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Sir Grappler Truth Teller OAM

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Re: lib policies really work!
Reply #9 - Feb 11^th, 2016 at 10:05pm

oh dear wrote on Feb 11^th, 2016 at 9:31pm:

John Smith wrote on Feb 11^th, 2016 at 9:23pm:

is anyone actually surprised that work for the dole doesn't achieve anything ?

No I'm not but I don't see the value in giving these people unskilled menial tasks. I see a better option in giving these people an opportunity at Tafe where they can learn real and valuable skills.

.. so they can compete with all the newly unemployed tradesmen and miners etc... all those specialists....

My point is that no matter which way you cook the goose..... there are still too many people who miss out on the meal.... because there are too many people to employ, UNLESS...... (repeat unless).... there is a massive change in direction from 'government' and 'business' here.

What I see is middle order business people founding and building up such things as a ship construction industry in Newcastle - a 'private' replacement for the old State Dockyards (once a prime place to get an apprenticeship).... and those private businesses then being shafted by their own 'government' in its desperate desire to satisfy the 'global economy' long before they even consider their own people......

I'm an old Newcastle boy..... I have relatives and in-laws who worked (once were workers) in the mining industry, ship building, steel and iron etc.. and also in the farming country that once was (once were farmers) before the mines etc .... now they're nothing but statistics....

And this filth of a government wants to play Herod by trading off the solid and indisputable direct and unredeemable cost of building ships offshore against the very real benefits to OUR people and economy of building them here.... and KNOWING that they are fully built to OUR specifications rather than on some slipshod slipway of a third world welding class.......

I guess that makes me a nationalist.......

BOTR!!

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“Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence.”
― John Adams

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Bam

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Re: lib policies really work!
Reply #10 - Feb 11^th, 2016 at 10:15pm

It would be more effective to spend the $1 billion to create full time jobs at the minimum wage of about $34,000 p.a. If we consider that each of those people would each no longer need $14,000 in income support, would be paying $3,000 in taxes and saving about $3,000 a year in job provider fees, it would only cost about $14,000 to create one job.

So $1 billion over 3 years divided by $14,000 would be 23,000 jobs. That would be more people getting into work than the dubious 2% rate that Nash is claiming for WfD.

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You are not entitled to your opinion. You are only entitled to hold opinions that you can defend through sound, reasoned argument.

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BatteriesNotIncluded

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Re: lib policies really work!
Reply #11 - Feb 11^th, 2016 at 10:38pm

John Smith wrote on Feb 11^th, 2016 at 9:33pm:

oh dear wrote on Feb 11^th, 2016 at 9:31pm:

John Smith wrote on Feb 11^th, 2016 at 9:23pm:

is anyone actually surprised that work for the dole doesn't achieve anything ?

No I'm not but I don't see the value in giving these people unskilled menial tasks. I see a better option in giving these people an opportunity at Tafe where they can learn real and valuable skills.

they can't, they've shut down most of the tafe system ... whatever's left is in the pipeline to be sold off

Hokeynomics Cheesy

tafe is shoddy : the price went up for what?

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*Sure....they're anti competitive as any subsidised job is. It wouldn't be there without the tax payer. Very damned difficult for a brainwashed collectivist to understand that I know.... (swaggy) *

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stunspore Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 5097 Gender:	Re: lib policies really work! Reply #12 - Feb 12^th, 2016 at 6:30am Still no lib supporter posts here.... Must be ducking and weaving season.
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bogarde73

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Re: lib policies really work!
Reply #13 - Feb 12^th, 2016 at 7:20am

Would it change your thinking if Lib supporters engaged with you? I doubt it. You've had leftwing & union politics drilled into you with your baby food & nappy changes.

You understand that the entire global economy is experiencing the same structural issues as the result of technological innovation. Only in some low income countries do the formerly widespread opportunities for mass manufacturing employment exist and they will shrink as the bots replace them.

Nobody has yet come up with satisfactory answers as to where we need to go. Job training is only a palliative when the jobs disappear.

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Know the enemies of a civil society by their public behaviour, by their fraudulent claim to be liberal-progressive, by their propensity to lie and, above all, by their attachment to authoritarianism.

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Bam

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Re: lib policies really work!
Reply #14 - Feb 12^th, 2016 at 9:21am

bogarde73 wrote on Feb 12^th, 2016 at 7:20am:

Would it change your thinking if Lib supporters engaged with you? I doubt it. You've had leftwing & union politics drilled into you with your baby food & nappy changes.

Is that how you got your rightwing views? Huh

bogarde73 wrote on Feb 12^th, 2016 at 7:20am:

You understand that the entire global economy is experiencing the same structural issues as the result of technological innovation. Only in some low income countries do the formerly widespread opportunities for mass manufacturing employment exist and they will shrink as the bots replace them.

That is irrelevant. This thread is discussing Work for the Dole and how ineffective it is. If you want to discuss the global economy, start a thread in the Thinking Globally section of the forum.

bogarde73 wrote on Feb 12^th, 2016 at 7:20am:

Nobody has yet come up with satisfactory answers as to where we need to go. Job training is only a palliative when the jobs disappear.

Bring back real full employment.

Remove all the barriers to employment that prevent an unemployed person from finding work.

Mandatory penalty rates for overtime. Get rid of this culture of workers being expected to work for free that sees workers giving companies over $110 billion of free labour a year.

A 35-hour week: if the jobs pie is not big enough, cut it into smaller slices.

Redirect funding for Work for the Dole into job creation programs.

Redirect funding for the wasteful and ineffective JSP network into a reinstated CES with a single national job market.

Eliminate the paternalistic approach to unemployment and give the unemployed back their right of self-determination. It's actually harder for an unemployed person in Australia to take up fruit picking work a few hours from home than it is for a backpacker to come here from Germany to do the same work - and that backpacker also pays a lower effective rate of tax. Unemployed Australians are not permitted to travel to look for work because they are punished harshly for it.

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You are not entitled to your opinion. You are only entitled to hold opinions that you can defend through sound, reasoned argument.

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