Australian Politics Forum - Melting sea ice and water level

Maqqa

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Melting sea ice and water level
Nov 27^th, 2015 at 9:57pm

http://smithplanet.com/stuff/iceandwater.htm

What happens when you apply this to oceans and ice sheets? There's an estimated 1.3 billion cubic kilometers of ocean water. If put into a single cube, this water would be 1090 kilometers (675 miles) on each side and be 1090 kilometers high. It would fill a bath tub the size of Texas that is 30 miles tall! That's a lot of water, though when you consider that the volume of Earth is just over 1 trillion cubic kilometers, ocean water makes up about .1% of Earth's volume (though incredible it covers 70% of it's surface, which shows how shallow the ocean really is)!

There's an estimated 660,000 cubic kilometers of floating sea ice. If put into one block, it would be 87km (54 miles) on each side (about the footprint of the state of Delaware) and 87km high.

If all of that ice were to melt, what impact would it have on the ocean levels? If both the ice and the sea water were both fresh water (or both salt water), it would have no impact at all (excluding all other factors, such as water temperature). But because of the difference in salinity (density) of the sea water and the ice, the increase in volume would be about 2.6% of the volume of the melted ice water, which when added to the volume of the oceans, would raise the ocean level only about 4 centimeters (1.5 inches). Details here.

Note that this only accounts for floating sea ice. The total amount of non-floating Arctic and Antarctic ice is about 50 times higher, and because this is not currently floating (and displacing sea water), if it were all to melt the sea levels would rise significantly.

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Prime Minister for Canyons Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 26906 Canberra Gender:	Re: Melting sea ice and water level Reply #1 - Nov 27^th, 2015 at 9:58pm Note that this only accounts for floating sea ice. The total amount of non-floating Arctic and Antarctic ice is about 50 times higher, and because this is not currently floating (and displacing sea water), if it were all to melt the sea levels would rise significantly. So whats your point?
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Maqqa Gold Member Offline 14% - that low?! Posts: 16000	Re: Melting sea ice and water level Reply #2 - Nov 27^th, 2015 at 9:59pm So if ALL the floating ice melted - seas level would rise by 4cm Fixed ice is 50 times more than floating ice. Would it be reasonable to say if ALL ice melt you would multiply 50 by 4cm?
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Sun Tzu

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Re: Melting sea ice and water level
Reply #3 - Nov 27^th, 2015 at 10:08pm

Maqqa wrote on Nov 27^th, 2015 at 9:59pm:

So if ALL the floating ice melted - seas level would rise by 4cm

Fixed ice is 50 times more than floating ice. Would it be reasonable to say if ALL ice melt you would multiply 50 by 4cm?

No it must be more than that. Floating ice already displaces water. About 10% of the volume of floating ice is above the water. Fixed ice is 100% above water. Therefore fixed ice above the water line should have about ten times the effect.

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Stratos Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 4725	Re: Melting sea ice and water level Reply #4 - Nov 27^th, 2015 at 10:10pm The sea level rise is expected to occur because as things heat they expand, more than because of extra water being added due to melting ice.
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Bobby. Gold Member Online Australian Politics Posts: 117185 Melbourne Gender:	Re: Melting sea ice and water level Reply #5 - Nov 27^th, 2015 at 10:13pm The above is not important. Most of the world's ice is in the Antarctic continent & is about 2 kilometers thick. If that melted we would be in big trouble but it is not likely to do so even in millions of years from now.
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Maqqa

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Re: Melting sea ice and water level
Reply #6 - Nov 27^th, 2015 at 10:15pm

Sun Tzu wrote on Nov 27^th, 2015 at 10:08pm:

Maqqa wrote on Nov 27^th, 2015 at 9:59pm:

So if ALL the floating ice melted - seas level would rise by 4cm

Fixed ice is 50 times more than floating ice. Would it be reasonable to say if ALL ice melt you would multiply 50 by 4cm?

No it must be more than that. Floating ice already displaces water. About 10% of the volume of floating ice is above the water. Fixed ice is 100% above water. Therefore fixed ice above the water line should have about ten times the effect.

The article disagree with you

It says of all melting ice melted the sea would rise 4cm

There are 50 times more fixed ice than floating ice

So would it be reasonable to say the sea would rise 50 x 4cm if ALL ice melted?

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Sun Tzu

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Re: Melting sea ice and water level
Reply #7 - Nov 28^th, 2015 at 12:37am

Maqqa wrote on Nov 27^th, 2015 at 10:15pm:

Sun Tzu wrote on Nov 27^th, 2015 at 10:08pm:

Maqqa wrote on Nov 27^th, 2015 at 9:59pm:

So if ALL the floating ice melted - seas level would rise by 4cm

Fixed ice is 50 times more than floating ice. Would it be reasonable to say if ALL ice melt you would multiply 50 by 4cm?

No it must be more than that. Floating ice already displaces water. About 10% of the volume of floating ice is above the water. Fixed ice is 100% above water. Therefore fixed ice above the water line should have about ten times the effect.

The article disagree with you

It says of all melting ice melted the sea would rise 4cm

There are 50 times more fixed ice than floating ice

So would it be reasonable to say the sea would rise 50 x 4cm if ALL ice melted?

Your articles says melting sea ice contributes about 2.6% to volume.

No. [[50 x 4 x [1/0.026]] +4] = 77 metres because the floating ice has only 2.6% of its volume above water so the volume below water is already accounted for in sea level. The ice above sea level is not immersed in water therefore it will have 38.4 [=1/0.026] times the effect of sea ice.

That is based on your information which appears to underestimate the volume of land ice.

However a web site has calculations which predict a rise of around 68 metre if all ice melted. I am sure I have seen figures with even higher values which includes the thermal effect of expansion of water with increasing temperature which will cause further sea level rise.

http://science.howstuffworks.com/environmental/earth/geophysics/question473.htm

Its average sea depth is about 3,688 meters (12,100 ft), and its maximum depth is 10,994 meters (6.831 mi) at the Mariana Trench. Nearly half of the world's marine waters are over 3,000 meters (9,800 ft) deep. The vast expanses of deep ocean (anything below 200 meters or 660 feet) cover about 66% of Earth's surface.

Volumetric coefficient of expansion for water is 0.000207/K.

Every 1 deg C in temperature rise of water will cause a sea level rise of 0.8 metre.

There may be other effects such as a rise in land level in locations where tall icebergs were melted from.

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« Last Edit: Nov 28^th, 2015 at 9:01am by Sun Tzu »

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Maqqa Gold Member Offline 14% - that low?! Posts: 16000	Re: Melting sea ice and water level Reply #8 - Nov 28^th, 2015 at 12:49am sun then the two articles are in conflict with each other
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Maqqa

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Re: Melting sea ice and water level
Reply #9 - Nov 28^th, 2015 at 12:52am

In 1995 the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change issued a report which contained various projections of the sea level change by the year 2100. They estimate that the sea will rise 50 centimeters (20 inches) with the lowest estimates at 15 centimeters (6 inches) and the highest at 95 centimeters (37 inches). The rise will come from thermal expansion of the ocean and from melting glaciers and ice sheets

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Maqqa

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Re: Melting sea ice and water level
Reply #10 - Nov 28^th, 2015 at 1:06am

Interesting to note in the last 100 years the ocean rose 15cm to 20cm

Their prediction is 15cm to 95cm in the next 100 years

That's a huge margin of error

So what's my point?

Even on an issue such as sea level there are conflicting information and large margin of errors

So why should I or anyone else be called a "denier" when I question the information available out there??!!

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Sun Tzu

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Re: Melting sea ice and water level
Reply #11 - Nov 28^th, 2015 at 9:13am

Maqqa wrote on Nov 28^th, 2015 at 1:06am:

Interesting to note in the last 100 years the ocean rose 15cm to 20cm

Their prediction is 15cm to 95cm in the next 100 years

That's a huge margin of error

So what's my point?

Even on an issue such as sea level there are conflicting information and large margin of errors

So why should I or anyone else be called a "denier" when I question the information available out there??!!

You will be long dead before the effects are evident. The concern is for your children's children.

The greed of today's planetary denizens is risking the future for their progeny.

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The_Barnacle

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Re: Melting sea ice and water level
Reply #12 - Nov 28^th, 2015 at 10:25am

Maqqa wrote on Nov 27^th, 2015 at 10:15pm:

Sun Tzu wrote on Nov 27^th, 2015 at 10:08pm:

Maqqa wrote on Nov 27^th, 2015 at 9:59pm:

So if ALL the floating ice melted - seas level would rise by 4cm

Fixed ice is 50 times more than floating ice. Would it be reasonable to say if ALL ice melt you would multiply 50 by 4cm?

No it must be more than that. Floating ice already displaces water. About 10% of the volume of floating ice is above the water. Fixed ice is 100% above water. Therefore fixed ice above the water line should have about ten times the effect.

The article disagree with you

It says of all meltingif all sea ice melted the sea would rise 4cm

There are 50 times more fixed ice than floating ice

So would it be reasonable to say the sea would rise 50 x 4cm if ALL ice melted?

No it would not be reasonable to say that.
Sea ice is already in the sea and already displaces water.
It is melting land ice as well as thermal expansion of the oceans that is causing sea level rise.

http://www.yaleclimateconnections.org/2014/11/loss-of-land-ice-not-sea-ice-more-...

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Maqqa

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Re: Melting sea ice and water level
Reply #13 - Nov 28^th, 2015 at 1:31pm

The_Barnacle wrote on Nov 28^th, 2015 at 10:25am:

No it would not be reasonable to say that.
Sea ice is already in the sea and already displaces water.
It is melting land ice as well as thermal expansion of the oceans that is causing sea level rise.

http://www.yaleclimateconnections.org/2014/11/loss-of-land-ice-not-sea-ice-more-...

Yes - the fixed ice

The article I posted says there are 50 times more fixed ice than floating ice

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Maqqa

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Re: Melting sea ice and water level
Reply #14 - Nov 28^th, 2015 at 1:33pm

Sun Tzu wrote on Nov 28^th, 2015 at 9:13am:

You will be long dead before the effects are evident. The concern is for your children's children.

The greed of today's planetary denizens is risking the future for their progeny.

And if Australia cuts emissions by 100% - Australia would be stuffed and the planet would still be F#CK3d

So what's the point

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