Australian Politics Forum - "We need fewer guns in society, not more." John Ho

Bobby.

Gold Member

Offline

Australian Politics

Posts: 120859
Melbourne
Gender: male

Re: "We need fewer guns in society, not more." John Ho
Reply #15 - Jan 8^th, 2015 at 8:58pm

Panther wrote on Jan 8^th, 2015 at 8:36pm:

Bobby. wrote on Jan 8^th, 2015 at 8:29pm:

30,000 people die from gun shot wounds every year in the USA.

We don't want that here.

That's totally incorrect.

If your going to quote a statistic, please make sure it's correct.

It's about 10,000 per year on recent average (11,000 high in 2011), which includes criminal upon criminal homicide, criminals shot in a commission of a crime by law enforcement, & 60+% are suicides.

That's compared to 30,000+ killed in motor vehicle accidents each year.

The overwhelming majority of those killed by firearms were killed by criminals in the commission of a crime (suicide is a crime) while using an illegal firearm.

I'll provide you with the actual statistics if you wish.http://www.smileyfaze.tk/slides/cheerskj4.gif

Go on - it's approximately 30,000 regardless of the reason.

Back to top

IP Logged

Baronvonrort

Moderator

Offline

Australian Politics

Posts: 20668
Gender: male

Re: "We need fewer guns in society, not more." John Ho
Reply #16 - Jan 8^th, 2015 at 9:05pm

Bobby. wrote on Jan 8^th, 2015 at 8:58pm:

Panther wrote on Jan 8^th, 2015 at 8:36pm:

Bobby. wrote on Jan 8^th, 2015 at 8:29pm:

30,000 people die from gun shot wounds every year in the USA.

We don't want that here.

That's totally incorrect.

If your going to quote a statistic, please make sure it's correct.

It's about 10,000 per year on recent average (11,000 high in 2011), which includes criminal upon criminal homicide, criminals shot in a commission of a crime by law enforcement, & 60+% are suicides.

That's compared to 30,000+ killed in motor vehicle accidents each year.

The overwhelming majority of those killed by firearms were killed by criminals in the commission of a crime (suicide is a crime) while using an illegal firearm.

I'll provide you with the actual statistics if you wish.http://www.smileyfaze.tk/slides/cheerskj4.gif

Go on - it's approximately 30,000 regardless of the reason.

It's actually around 10,000 if you don't include suicides, 52% of firearm homicides are done by a demographic that is 12% of the population.

This guy decided to end his life on his own terms,suicide is a separate issue to gun crime.
What are your thoughts on this guy deciding to end his own life Bobby, is he guilty of any crime?
www.duckworksmagazine.com/09/reports/bolger/index.htm

Back to top

Leftists and the Ayatollahs have a lot in common when it comes to criticism of Islam, they don't tolerate it.

IP Logged

Bobby. Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 120859 Melbourne Gender:	Re: "We need fewer guns in society, not more." John Ho Reply #17 - Jan 9^th, 2015 at 5:21am It's 30,000 regardless of the reason. I await your apology.
Back to top	IP Logged

Panther

Gold Member

Offline

My Heart beats True for
the Red White & Blue...

Posts: 11939
Gender: male

Re: "We need fewer guns in society, not more." John Ho
Reply #18 - Jan 9^th, 2015 at 6:10am

Bobby. wrote on Jan 9^th, 2015 at 5:21am:

It's 30,000 regardless of the reason.

I await your apology.

Only GUN HOMICIDES will be considered valid & related to this Topic.
Other Homicides are irrelevant, & not related to the OP.

Quote:

Gun homicides (or more specifically, the rate of gun homicides per 100,000 residents) declined by 49 percent between their peak in 1993 and 2010, a period of 17 years. We double-checked the

Pew Research Center's 2013 Report

calculations of the CDC figures and found that they were correct. Between 1993 and 2010, the gun homicide rate fell from 7.02 per 100,000 to 3.59 per 100,000, or a decline of precisely 49 percent.

Minor Corrections were made to my earlier post, where it was found that the numbers were slightly off.

Consider yourself forgiven.

Back to top

« Last Edit: Jan 9^th, 2015 at 6:16am by Panther »

"When the People fear government there is Tyranny;
When government fears the People there is Freedom & Liberty!"

'
Live FREE or DIE!
'

IP Logged

Bobby.

Gold Member

Offline

Australian Politics

Posts: 120859
Melbourne
Gender: male

Re: "We need fewer guns in society, not more." John Ho
Reply #19 - Jan 9^th, 2015 at 6:14am

Forgiven

namaste

http://usconservatives.about.com/od/capitalpunishment/a/Putting-Gun-Death-Statis...

Quote:

There are roughly 32,000 gun deaths per year in the United States. Of those, around 60% are suicides. About 3% are accidental deaths (between 700-800 deaths). About 34% of deaths (just over 11,000 in both 2010 and 2011) make up the remainder of gun deaths and are classified as homicides. Sometimes the 32,000 and 11,000 figures are used interchangeably by gun control advocates. Clearly, the 32,000 figure is a far more dramatic number and it is often used for impact by anti-gun activists. These numbers are also regularly compared to other countries' gun statistics. But is it a fair comparison? Here, we will examine some of the most common gun control arguments used and put those figures into perspective.

Back to top

IP Logged

Phemanderac

Gold Member

Offline

Australian Politics

Posts: 3507
Gender: male

Re: "We need fewer guns in society, not more." John Ho
Reply #20 - Jan 9^th, 2015 at 7:19am

Yadda wrote on Dec 19^th, 2014 at 5:14am:

Yadda wrote on Dec 18^th, 2014 at 10:07pm:

COMMENT BY Yadda;
Of course having firearms in the hands of law abiding citizens has merit, in confronting and preventing criminal violence in our society.
Quote:

There are no good guns. There are no bad guns.

A gun in the hands of a bad man is a bad thing.

A gun in the hands of a good man isn't a threat to anyone .......... except a bad guy!

former sig line of, DreamRyderX

The sentiment expressed in that quote [above], makes perfect sense to me.

QUESTION;
Relating to the lawful right to possess a firearm [that could be extended to individuals], what 'circumstances' would describe the character and nature of 'a good man' OR, of a 'law abiding citizen' ?

Well i have a few simple [and logical] suggestions;

Personally, i believe that everyone over the age of say, 25 years old, who has never had a drink driving conviction, and, who has never had an illicit drug use conviction, and, who has not had a criminal conviction in the last 20 years, should be permitted to own, and keep a firearm in their own home, for the protection of themselves, and their property.

EXPLANATION;
Over 25 years old
- goes to mental maturity and stability.

Never having had a drink driving conviction
- goes to character and recognition [by an individual] of the importance of personal responsibility.

Never having had a conviction for the use of illicit [i.e. psychotropic] drugs
- goes to mental stability and character and recognition [by an individual] of the importance of personal responsibility.

No criminal conviction in the last 20 years
- goes to character and recognition [by an individual] of the importance of personal responsibility.

I would also disallow the possession of a firearm to anyone who is under 'medical care' for any 'mental health' issue, because he/she may be taking mind altering 'medication' [i.e. psychotropic drugs].

COMMENT;
I would wager that under such rules [above], some current police officers would not qualify for possession and use firearms!

Yep, probably a safe bet. Another safe bet though would be wagering that plenty of "baddies" would qualify under those conditions...

Which would be a tad problematic.

Back to top

On the 26th of January you are all invited to celebrate little white penal day...

"They're not rules as such, more like guidelines" Pirates of the Caribbean..

IP Logged

Baronvonrort

Moderator

Offline

Australian Politics

Posts: 20668
Gender: male

Re: "We need fewer guns in society, not more." John Ho
Reply #21 - Jan 9^th, 2015 at 12:09pm

Baronvonrort wrote on Jan 8^th, 2015 at 9:05pm:

What are your thoughts on this guy deciding to end his own life Bobby, is he guilty of any crime?
www.duckworksmagazine.com/09/reports/bolger/index.htm

Would this guys suicide have been more acceptable if he used a rope or jumped from a height instead of using a gun?

Back to top

Leftists and the Ayatollahs have a lot in common when it comes to criticism of Islam, they don't tolerate it.

IP Logged

nasus

Full Member

Offline

Posts: 198
3rd planet

Re: "We need fewer guns in society, not more." John Ho
Reply #22 - Jan 14^th, 2015 at 3:02pm

A most interesting topic. Why is it that when some members of a community wish to indulge in a legal and enjoyable activity, someone is against it for no logical reason, bias or just has no idea? Firearms are not the problem, it's the Nay Sayers& numnuts who believe firearms are a danger to the public who cannot comprehend that if there are fewer firearms in the community, crime rate rises. You better believe it. If it's to hard for you to find supporting evidence, try harder. Roll Eyes

Back to top

"I may not believe in what you say, however I will defend unto death your right to say it". Attributed to Voltaire. Freedom of speech a right we must regain.

IP Logged

Panther

Gold Member

Offline

My Heart beats True for
the Red White & Blue...

Posts: 11939
Gender: male

Re: "We need fewer guns in society, not more." John Ho
Reply #23 - Jan 15^th, 2015 at 5:05am

nasus wrote on Jan 14^th, 2015 at 3:02pm:

A most interesting topic. Why is it that when some members of a community wish to indulge in a legal and enjoyable activity, someone is against it for no logical reason, bias or just has no idea? Firearms are not the problem, it's the Nay Sayers& numnuts who believe firearms are a danger to the public who cannot comprehend that if there are fewer firearms in the community, crime rate rises. You better believe it. If it's to hard for you to find supporting evidence, try harder. Roll Eyes

Absolutely, a proven fact.

Seek, & ye shall find, & find a lot!

Back to top

"When the People fear government there is Tyranny;
When government fears the People there is Freedom & Liberty!"

'
Live FREE or DIE!
'

IP Logged

Dnarever

Gold Member

Offline

Australian Politics

Posts: 61969
Here
Gender: male

Re: "We need fewer guns in society, not more." John Ho
Reply #24 - Jan 15^th, 2015 at 6:02am

Panther wrote on Jan 9^th, 2015 at 6:10am:

Bobby. wrote on Jan 9^th, 2015 at 5:21am:

It's 30,000 regardless of the reason.

I await your apology.

Quote:

Only GUN HOMICIDES will be considered valid & related to this Topic.
Other Homicides are irrelevant, & not related to the OP.

http://i.imgur.com/mhioMep.png

Quote:

Gun homicides (or more specifically, the rate of gun homicides per 100,000 residents) declined by 49 percent between their peak in 1993 and 2010, a period of 17 years. We double-checked the

Pew Research Center's 2013 Report

calculations of the CDC figures and found that they were correct. Between 1993 and 2010, the gun homicide rate fell from 7.02 per 100,000 to 3.59 per 100,000, or a decline of precisely 49 percent.

Quote:

Only GUN HOMICIDES will be considered valid & related to

Untrue. Any gun related death is consistent with this topic. Gun related accidents do not happen without a gun. Undetermined gun related death is almost guaranteed to fall within a category which should be counted.

100% of gun related death relies on the presence of a gun.

Back to top

« Last Edit: Jan 15^th, 2015 at 6:13am by Dnarever »

IP Logged

Dnarever

Gold Member

Offline

Australian Politics

Posts: 61969
Here
Gender: male

Re: "We need fewer guns in society, not more." John Ho
Reply #25 - Jan 15^th, 2015 at 6:10am

nasus wrote on Jan 14^th, 2015 at 3:02pm:

A most interesting topic. Why is it that when some members of a community wish to indulge in a legal and enjoyable activity, someone is against it for no logical reason, bias or just has no idea? Firearms are not the problem, it's the Nay Sayers& numnuts who believe firearms are a danger to the public who cannot comprehend that if there are fewer firearms in the community, crime rate rises. You better believe it. If it's to hard for you to find supporting evidence, try harder. Roll Eyes

numnuts who believe firearms are a danger to the public

Sorry but I disagree, A figure around 180 people in Australia die as a result of gun shot each year, I suspect that this constitutes a danger.

Back to top

IP Logged

nasus

Full Member

Offline

Posts: 198
3rd planet

Re: "We need fewer guns in society, not more." John Ho
Reply #26 - Jan 15^th, 2015 at 8:55am

If someone wants to write that "A figure around 180 people in Australia die as a result of gun shot each year, I suspect that this constitutes a danger." That person should indicate the source of the number. That person should also write that the greatest percentage were suicide. The source of my figures is Age printed, " Australian Institute of Criminology". I use this as the figures I want to quote are to lengthy and bulky.
Hence if firearms are a danger, which in greatly disputed, what about deaths by mothers, using a knife, all other weapons other than firearms. Possibly the greatest number of deaths in Australia today is at the hands of Hospital staff after admission for surgery. The last time I saw the figures it was around 5000 per year. Not a good look I will locate my figures for deaths after admission to hospital and post later.

By Shane Wright
January 3, 2004
Melbourne Age:

Guns killed more than 5000 people in Australia in the past decade. Nine out of 10 of the victims were male and most of them killed themselves.

The number of deaths caused by firearms dropped almost 50 per cent between 1991 and 2001, with the biggest yearly fall in deaths coming after the 1996 Port Arthur massacre.

A report by the Australian Institute of Criminology released yesterday found that the number of deaths caused by guns each year dropped to 333 in 2001 from 629 in 1991.

The biggest single form of firearm death was suicide, accounting for 3930 fatalities out of a total of 5083 studied. The number fell from 505 in 1991 to 261 in 2001.

Men were the victims of 4586 firearm deaths, women were victims of 497 - 261 of which were recorded as homicide.

Homicides dropped to 47 in 2001 from 84 in 1991, accidental deaths dropped to 18 from 29, while other forms of firearm deaths slipped to seven from 11.

The biggest drop in deaths followed Port Arthur, when Martin Bryant murdered 35 people with a military-style weapon.

After the massacre, tough gun laws were enacted across Australia, specifically targeting military-style weapons, which resulted in hundreds of thousands of weapons being destroyed.

In 1996, 521 people died from gun-inflicted wounds, while in 1997 this dropped to 437.

State and federal governments agreed in late 2002 on new laws aimed at restricting access to handguns. Last July import controls were increased.

Hunting rifles consistently accounted for the largest number of deaths, followed by shotguns, while the use of handguns has increased. The number of times a hunting rifle was implicated in a death dropped to 76 in 2001 from 282 in 1991. Shotgun deaths dropped from 133 to 54 but handgun deaths increased from 29 in 1991 to 49 in 2001.

Back to top

"I may not believe in what you say, however I will defend unto death your right to say it". Attributed to Voltaire. Freedom of speech a right we must regain.

IP Logged

nasus

Full Member

Offline

Posts: 198
3rd planet

Re: "We need fewer guns in society, not more." John Ho
Reply #27 - Jan 15^th, 2015 at 9:08am

This is the place it belongs, posted in wrong section, my bad.
Source: Sydney Morning Herald.
HOSPITAL errors claim the lives of 4550 Australians a year, equivalent to the death toll from 13 jumbo jets crashing and killing all on board, says a report to the Government which urges sweeping reforms of the health system.

And savings of $1 billion a year could be made if problems including hospital-borne infections, medication mix-ups, drug side effects and patient falls were only halved.

Such "adverse events" are estimated to have affected about 16 per cent of people admitted.

The Prime Minister, Kevin Rudd, today will release the National Health and Hospitals Reform Commission report which warns that the present system is "unlikely to be sustainable without reform".

hence this is current, a staggering number and all as a result of what, not a firearm in sight, or knife, possibly a pill. Now what. BAN Hospitals. Yea. Or Doctors!

Back to top

"I may not believe in what you say, however I will defend unto death your right to say it". Attributed to Voltaire. Freedom of speech a right we must regain.

IP Logged

greggerypeccary

Gold Member

Online

Australian Politics

Posts: 154214
Gender: male

Re: "We need fewer guns in society, not more." John Ho
Reply #28 - Jan 15^th, 2015 at 9:26am

nasus wrote on Jan 15^th, 2015 at 9:08am:

This is the place it belongs, posted in wrong section, my bad.
Source: Sydney Morning Herald.
HOSPITAL errors claim the lives of 4550 Australians a year, equivalent to the death toll from 13 jumbo jets crashing and killing all on board, says a report to the Government which urges sweeping reforms of the health system.

And savings of $1 billion a year could be made if problems including hospital-borne infections, medication mix-ups, drug side effects and patient falls were only halved.

Such "adverse events" are estimated to have affected about 16 per cent of people admitted.

The Prime Minister, Kevin Rudd, today will release the National Health and Hospitals Reform Commission report which warns that the present system is "unlikely to be sustainable without reform".

hence this is current, a staggering number and all as a result of what, not a firearm in sight, or knife, possibly a pill. Now what. BAN Hospitals. Yea. Or Doctors!

Hospitals and doctors weren't originally designed to kill.

/thread

Back to top

GOP = Guardians Of Paedophiles

IP Logged

Panther

Gold Member

Offline

My Heart beats True for
the Red White & Blue...

Posts: 11939
Gender: male

Re: "We need fewer guns in society, not more." John Ho
Reply #29 - Jan 15^th, 2015 at 11:35am

Dnarever wrote on Jan 15^th, 2015 at 6:10am:

nasus wrote on Jan 14^th, 2015 at 3:02pm:

A most interesting topic. Why is it that when some members of a community wish to indulge in a legal and enjoyable activity, someone is against it for no logical reason, bias or just has no idea? Firearms are not the problem, it's the Nay Sayers& numnuts who believe firearms are a danger to the public who cannot comprehend that if there are fewer firearms in the community, crime rate rises. You better believe it. If it's to hard for you to find supporting evidence, try harder. Roll Eyes

Sorry but I disagree, A figure around 180 people in Australia die as a result of gun shot each year, I suspect that this constitutes a danger.

If that's a fact, I wonder how you feel about how many in Australia die as a result of falls, of motorcycle accidents, of drowning?

How many Australians die of accidents related to alcohol, die of alcohol poisoning, die of homicides committed by those under the influence of alcohol, die of diseases related to the use of alcohol.

When we talk about homicide, how many of your 180 precious lives are forfeit because they are shot by the police while in commission of a crime, or shot in criminals vs. criminal arguments?

How many of those 180 you tout die of self-inflicted gunshot wounds, yes from the cowards way out ..... suicide?

Now, of all those firearm deaths, you never mentioned how many Australians who died, died from wounds inflicted by law abiding citizens, using legal firearms to protect themselves, their families, loved-ones, their mates?

Now how may died from illegal firearms ...... mostly at the hands of a lawless criminal?

Oh, & last but not least, how many Australians die from knives, rocks, pipes, bats (as in baseball or cricket), hammers, screwdrivers, glass bottles?

And don't ever forget about Bare Hands/Fists --- the most deadly weapons on earth.

Now that we have touched the tip of the proverbial iceberg, is the danger of firearms so great that we as a democratic society, do we refuse to allow law abiding, clear thinking, trained, & honest citizens to protect themselves with legal firearms, protect themselves when their lives are threatened, or when their family & mates face mortal danger to defend them?

Why?

Have they no right to protect themselves?

Are their lives less important than your precious 180?

Are ya thinkin' yet?

Or are you so blinded by the baseless rhetoric from the left that firearms are all so, so bad & evil, that your mind can only function in one way ....... as they trained you?

Back to top

« Last Edit: Jan 15^th, 2015 at 11:45am by Panther »

"When the People fear government there is Tyranny;
When government fears the People there is Freedom & Liberty!"

'
Live FREE or DIE!
'

IP Logged