Australian Politics Forum - "We need fewer guns in society, not more." John Ho

Yadda

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"We need fewer guns in society, not more." John Ho
Dec 18^th, 2014 at 10:07pm

"We need fewer guns in society, not more."

- John Howard [on the 7.30 report tonight]

John Howard, in response to Senator Leyonhjelm's expressed view that law abiding citizens don't need to be rendered totally defenceless, by Australian governments.

QUESTIONS;
#1,
If that sentiment, expressed by John Howard is true, then when are state and commonwealth governments going to disarm all police forces and agencies throughout Australia ?

#2,
If that sentiment, expressed by John Howard is true, AND, if law abiding citizens do not need to have any means to defend themselves [from armed criminals], then why don't the police forces throughout Australia, disarm themselves, and simply use harsh language whenever police officers confront armed criminals ?

Google;
Senator Leyonhjelm's call on guns

Google;
"John Howard", on Senator Leyonhjelm's call on guns

COMMENT BY Yadda;
Of course having firearms in the hands of law abiding citizens has merit, in confronting and preventing criminal violence in our society.

Quote:

There are no good guns. There are no bad guns.

A gun in the hands of a bad man is a bad thing.

A gun in the hands of a good man isn't a threat to anyone .......... except a bad guy!

former sig line of, DreamRyderX

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"....And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead."
Luke 16:31

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Dnarever Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 57150 Here Gender:	Re: "We need fewer guns in society, not more." John Ho Reply #1 - Dec 18^th, 2014 at 10:14pm I hate to say that John Howard is right.
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Yadda

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Re: "We need fewer guns in society, not more." John Ho
Reply #2 - Dec 19^th, 2014 at 5:14am

Yadda wrote on Dec 18^th, 2014 at 10:07pm:

COMMENT BY Yadda;
Of course having firearms in the hands of law abiding citizens has merit, in confronting and preventing criminal violence in our society.

Quote:

There are no good guns. There are no bad guns.

A gun in the hands of a bad man is a bad thing.

A gun in the hands of a good man isn't a threat to anyone .......... except a bad guy!

former sig line of, DreamRyderX

The sentiment expressed in that quote [above], makes perfect sense to me.

QUESTION;
Relating to the lawful right to possess a firearm [that could be extended to individuals], what 'circumstances' would describe the character and nature of 'a good man' OR, of a 'law abiding citizen' ?

Well i have a few simple [and logical] suggestions;

Personally, i believe that everyone over the age of say, 25 years old, who has never had a drink driving conviction, and, who has never had an illicit drug use conviction, and, who has not had a criminal conviction in the last 20 years, should be permitted to own, and keep a firearm in their own home, for the protection of themselves, and their property.

EXPLANATION;
Over 25 years old
- goes to mental maturity and stability.

Never having had a drink driving conviction
- goes to character and recognition [by an individual] of the importance of personal responsibility.

Never having had a conviction for the use of illicit [i.e. psychotropic] drugs
- goes to mental stability and character and recognition [by an individual] of the importance of personal responsibility.

No criminal conviction in the last 20 years
- goes to character and recognition [by an individual] of the importance of personal responsibility.

I would also disallow the possession of a firearm to anyone who is under 'medical care' for any 'mental health' issue, because he/she may be taking mind altering 'medication' [i.e. psychotropic drugs].

COMMENT;
I would wager that under such rules [above], some current police officers would not qualify for possession and use firearms!

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"....And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead."
Luke 16:31

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Yadda

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Re: "We need fewer guns in society, not more." John Ho
Reply #3 - Dec 19^th, 2014 at 5:18am

A few more thoughts to ponder, relating to this contentious issue.....

Yadda said....
Quote:

Criminals for Gun Control

http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1239003896/6#6
Quote:

Applying a little simple logic to this contentious issue.....

FEMALE INTERVIEWER:
Don't you admit that shooting rifles is a terribly dangerous activity to be teaching children?

GENERAL COSGROVE:
I don't see how. We will be teaching them proper rifle discipline before they even touch a firearm.

FEMALE INTERVIEWER:
But, you're equipping them to become violent killers.

GENERAL COSGROVE:
Well, Ma' am, you're equipped to be a prostitute, but you're not one, are you?

"rifle discipline" = = firearm safety.

e.g.
At rifle/shooting ranges, anywhere in Australia, a person is ALWAYS taught, that if someone hands YOU a firearm, YOU should always determine 'the condition' of THAT firearm - BEFORE YOU DO ANOTHER THING.

i.e.
If someone hands YOU a firearm, YOU should always OPEN THE BOLT/CHAMBER SLIGHTLY, to visually determine ['the condition'] if there is a round [a 'bullet'] in the chamber of THAT firearm - BEFORE YOU DO ANOTHER THING.

And, YOU ALSO LEARN, that if you do not know how to open the bolt/chamber of that firearm [to determine if the chamber is loaded with a round, or not] - THEN YOU SHOULD NOT BE HANDLING THAT FIREARM !!!!!!

iYadda said....
Quote:

MORE ON THE POLITICS OF FIREARM OWNERSHIP....

I highly recommend to you, these two simple YOUTUBE presentations which LOGICALLY explores both sides of the gun control issue - and LOGICALLY explores the motives of [those] politicians who want to render law abiding CITIZENS 'harmless' - by 'making society safer', by disarming the law abiding CITIZENS.

And these YT's explain why we should all be concerned about, where base political power comes from, and who has the right to wield that base political power.

YOUTUBE

Gun Control

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8RoMqB0VU4U

The 2nd presentation here, explores how base political power has been coveted, and slyly achieved, by some.

In 6 parts, 0-5

1st part,
YOUTUBE

-DVD Version: INTRO - Individualism vs Collectivism

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XMYicq_SN1E

Yadda said....
Quote:

Being a cynic, i suspect that the atrocity committed by Martin Bryant was a 'happy circumstance' for some in our community, social 'progressives' who were waiting for a good excuse to make firearm ownership much more difficult, and enact legislation to effectively disarm many/most Australian citizens.

After 1996, i lost two 12g's and a 22 semi-auto.

[quote author=Yadda link=1315557676/2#2 date=1315630013]

p.s.
Personally, i believe that everyone over the age of say, 25 years old, who has never had a drink driving, or [illicit] drug use conviction, or, a criminal conviction [in the last 20 years], should be permitted to own, and keep a firearm in their own home, for the protection of themselves, and their property.

Which is just reflecting good Australian values. Wink

Google;

Every Man Should Have A Rifle, Henry Lawson

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"....And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead."
Luke 16:31

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Yadda

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Re: "We need fewer guns in society, not more." John Ho
Reply #4 - Dec 19^th, 2014 at 5:53am

Dnarever wrote on Dec 18^th, 2014 at 10:14pm:

I hate to say that John Howard is right.

Two points;

#1,
I don't believe you.

#2,
Would you care to explain why you believe that John Howard is right ?

And if you are certain that John Howard is right, then i repeat my OPEN QUESTION;
Why don't the police forces throughout Australia, disarm themselves, and simply use harsh language whenever police officers confront armed criminals ?

COMMENT BY Yadda;
Creating a circumstance, in a modern society, where only criminals and the servants of a political executive have possession of firearms is insane, imo.

But hey! ....what's new ? Cheesy

Quote:

A simple definition of SANITY/INSANITY.

Typically, an unrestrained sane person will act in ways which are harmless to others, and in ways which are creative, and productive [for himself, others, and society].

And typically, and conversely, an unrestrained INSANE person will act in ways which are harmful and destructive to himself, and, or, others around him.

'Normal' criminal behaviour - in mankind
http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1293669294/0#0

Governments are elected to formulate legislation in parliament which will best serve the interests of the citizens who have elected them.

QUESTION;
Are our political leaders acting in the best interests of their citizens ?

n.b.
Our political leaders are [in fact!] the SERVANTS of the citizens.
WE [THE CITIZENS], PAY THEIR WAGES!

QUESTION;
Is it in the best interests of the citizens of Australia, for the government of Australia, to bring about the circumstances, where only criminals and the servants of the political executive have possession of firearms ?

"A bureaucrat, is said to oppose all change [which govern his lawful actions]. Except when change will increases his own power."

- unknown

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« Last Edit: Dec 19^th, 2014 at 5:59am by Yadda »

"....And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead."
Luke 16:31

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greggerypeccary Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 131469 Gender:	Re: "We need fewer guns in society, not more." John Ho Reply #5 - Dec 19^th, 2014 at 7:22am Yadda wrote on Dec 18^th, 2014 at 10:07pm: "We need fewer guns in society, not more." - John Howard [on the 7.30 report tonight] Well said, John.
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Baronvonrort

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Re: "We need fewer guns in society, not more." John Ho
Reply #6 - Dec 19^th, 2014 at 10:43am

greggerypeccary wrote on Dec 19^th, 2014 at 7:22am:

Yadda wrote on Dec 18^th, 2014 at 10:07pm:

"We need fewer guns in society, not more."

- John Howard [on the 7.30 report tonight]

Well said, John.

Our legal registered firearm numbers are higher than what they were before the gun buyback, so much for the buy back reducing numbers.

Australia has massively increased firearm ownership while firearm crime has decreased, can any anti gun bigot explain how more guns equals less crime in Australia?

More guns in Australia has resulted in less gun crime,Howard is wrong-
http://gameconnsw.org/wp-content/uploads/2013/07/McPhedran_More_Guns_More_or_Les...

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greggerypeccary Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 131469 Gender:	Re: "We need fewer guns in society, not more." John Ho Reply #7 - Dec 19^th, 2014 at 11:49am Baronvonrort wrote on Dec 19^th, 2014 at 10:43am: Howard is wrong- No, he's dead right. "We need fewer guns in society, not more."
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Baronvonrort

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Re: "We need fewer guns in society, not more." John Ho
Reply #8 - Dec 19^th, 2014 at 12:07pm

greggerypeccary wrote on Dec 19^th, 2014 at 11:49am:

Baronvonrort wrote on Dec 19^th, 2014 at 10:43am:

Howard is wrong-

No, he's dead right.

"We need fewer guns in society, not more."

The anti gun bigots claim a reduction in firearm numbers was responsible for our decrease in gun crime.

Our legal firearm numbers have increased to above the levels before Pt Arthur while at the exact same time firearm crime has decreased.

In Australia more legal guns have actually resulted in less firearm crime.

Peccaheads cannot handle the truth. Cool

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greggerypeccary

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Re: "We need fewer guns in society, not more." John Ho
Reply #9 - Dec 19^th, 2014 at 12:24pm

Baronvonrort wrote on Dec 19^th, 2014 at 12:07pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Dec 19^th, 2014 at 11:49am:

Baronvonrort wrote on Dec 19^th, 2014 at 10:43am:

Howard is wrong-

No, he's dead right.

"We need fewer guns in society, not more."

The anti gun bigots claim a reduction in firearm numbers was responsible for our decrease in gun crime.

I don't know who those guys are, but I certainly didn't say that.

What I did say was "Well said, John".

And, "he's dead right": "We need fewer guns in society, not more."

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Baronvonrort

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Re: "We need fewer guns in society, not more." John Ho
Reply #10 - Dec 19^th, 2014 at 1:26pm

greggerypeccary wrote on Dec 19^th, 2014 at 12:24pm:

Baronvonrort wrote on Dec 19^th, 2014 at 12:07pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Dec 19^th, 2014 at 11:49am:

Baronvonrort wrote on Dec 19^th, 2014 at 10:43am:

Howard is wrong-

No, he's dead right.

"We need fewer guns in society, not more."

The anti gun bigots claim a reduction in firearm numbers was responsible for our decrease in gun crime.

I don't know who those guys are, but I certainly didn't say that.

What I did say was "Well said, John".

And, "he's dead right": "We need fewer guns in society, not more."

With Australia increasing the legal numbers of firearms has happened at the exact same time firearm crime has decreased, we have the most guns we have ever had while at the exact same time having our lowest firearm crime rates.

Detective Chief Supt Finch said at the recent senate inquiry into gun violence law abiding firearm owners are not the problem, link to transcripts in gun laws thread.

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|dev|null

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Re: "We need fewer guns in society, not more." John Ho
Reply #11 - Dec 19^th, 2014 at 2:29pm

Different types of guns. Different licensing requirements. Must now show a need. More training for gun owners as well. This seems to have made sure that no gun massacres have taken place.

Gun proliferation without a "need" to be shown and no requirement for training of gun owners/users doesn't seem to have worked out too well in the USA, now has it? Grin

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Panther

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Re: "We need fewer guns in society, not more." John Ho
Reply #12 - Jan 8^th, 2015 at 8:24pm

|dev|null wrote on Dec 19^th, 2014 at 2:29pm:

Different types of guns. Different licensing requirements. Must now show a need. More training for gun owners as well. This seems to have made sure that no gun massacres have taken place.

Gun proliferation without a "need" to be shown and no requirement for training of gun owners/users doesn't seem to have worked out too well in the USA, now has it?

Did you know:

"Need" has nothing to do with an American Citizens right to keep & bear arms.

The U.S. Government, by law, is not permitted to infringe upon an American Citizens right to keep & bear arms.

It's estimated that there are in excess of 300 million firearms in America, but the real number will never be known because firearm registration is virtually non-existent.

There are well in excess of 100 million firearms owners in America registered in gun clubs.

Over 98+% of all legal firearms owned by law abiding American Citizens are never used in the commission of a crime?

I could go on, but I think you need to start ignoring the political rants of the America's Anti-gun Left.

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« Last Edit: Jan 8^th, 2015 at 8:31pm by Panther »

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When government fears the People there is Freedom & Liberty!"

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Bobby. Gold Member Online Australian Politics Posts: 95258 Melbourne Gender:	Re: "We need fewer guns in society, not more." John Ho Reply #13 - Jan 8^th, 2015 at 8:29pm 30,000 people die from gun shot wounds every year in the USA. We don't want that here.
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Panther

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Re: "We need fewer guns in society, not more." John Ho
Reply #14 - Jan 8^th, 2015 at 8:36pm

Bobby. wrote on Jan 8^th, 2015 at 8:29pm:

30,000 people die from gun shot wounds every year in the USA.

We don't want that here.

That's totally incorrect.

If your going to quote a statistic, please make sure it's correct.

* It's about 12,000+ per year on recent average (12,700+ high in 2006), 6,000+ are suicides. The total number also includes criminal upon criminal homicide, & criminals shot in a commission of a crime by law enforcement.

That's compared to 30,000+ killed in motor vehicle accidents each year.

The overwhelming majority of those killed by firearms were killed by criminals in the commission of a crime (suicide is a crime) while using an illegal firearm.

I'll provide you with the actual statistics if you wish.

* Edit:Corrections

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« Last Edit: Jan 9^th, 2015 at 6:08am by Panther »

"When the People fear government there is Tyranny;
When government fears the People there is Freedom & Liberty!"

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