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spineless apologetics (Read 371931 times)
Lastone
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Re: spineless apologetics
Reply #2205 - Oct 5th, 2017 at 12:52am
 
moses wrote on Oct 4th, 2017 at 6:15pm:
Lastone wrote Reply #2198 - Yesterday at 7:42pm
Quote:
If you walk in My statutes and keep My commandments, and perform them … you shall eat your bread to the full, and dwell in your land safely. I will give you peace in the land, and you shall lie down, and none will make you afraid; I will rid the land of evil beasts, and the sword will not go through your land. You will chase your enemies, and they shall fall by the sword before you. Five of you shall chase a hundred, and a hundred of you shall put ten thousand to flight; your enemies shall fall by the sword before you.” Leviticus 26:3


It's funny how the apologists always use three and a half thousand year old text which was superseded 2017 years ago:
Luke 16:16  The law and the prophets were until John: since that time the kingdom of God is preached , and every man presseth into it.

You see the ancient law was done away with by Christ:

Rom 3:20  Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.

Rom 3:28  Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.


Gal 2:16  Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.


Gal 3:11  But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith.

Your excuse is two thousand and seventeen years out of  date.


Wonderful how do we let those Christians still advocating for Leviticus 20:13 know that it no longer applies? I assume you voted yes for marriage equality?
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I am yet to see a trickle down lift anyone up
 
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moses
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Re: spineless apologetics
Reply #2206 - Oct 5th, 2017 at 7:23pm
 
Lastone wrote:
Quote:
Wonderful how do we let those Christians still advocating for Leviticus 20:13 know that it no longer applies? I assume you voted yes for marriage equality?


If you want to tell them, quote the verses I gave you.

Other than that, our law tells these people they are wrong.

Civilized societies do not allow this sort of behaviour.

There are people, Christian and non Christian, who are opposed to the act of homosexuality, I would hope they all have enough understanding to know that people can't help they way they are born.
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moses
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Re: spineless apologetics
Reply #2207 - Oct 5th, 2017 at 7:24pm
 
karnal wrote: Reply #2202 - Yesterday at 6:55pm

Quote:
That's what I said. You want people to hate, ban and kill Muslims. You post here with this sole intention.

I can't see how your stance is any different to Muslim haters - a hater is a hater.


Oh please cut the deceitful hysteria.

Where have I ever advocated hate ban and kill? Why do you rely on lies karnal?

I have continuously, over the years, called for an exhaustive review of the evil in the doctrine of islam. This is the only way to defeat islamic terrorism. You know it, I know it, however we also know this will destroy islam as it destructs the muslim doctrine of an infallible unchangeable qur'an. You just prefer the status quo of death bloodshed and destruction, to islam addressing the evil in the qur'an which is the sole cause and motivation of the atrocities committed by muslims who obey the qur'an to the letter.    

Quote:
Prophet Yehesua never mentioned Roman or Gentile or Jewish hypocrites, He just said that not all who go in His name will enter the Kingdom. The central tenant of His teaching was love for all and the avoidance of hatred.

No exclusions, no exceptions. He even advised us to love our worst enemies. He used his own life to model this.

It's impossible to conceive that prophet Yeheshua would suggest that we hate Muslims, but this is your sole message here. You reserve a special hatred for those who suggest forgiveness or tolerance or any form of mercy for Muslims.

I don't think anyone here has said you shouldn't have the right to promote your hatred. Some of us just question your decision to do so. After all, why? No Muslim's ever bothered you.

It reads as mere hatred for hatred's sake, but I'm curious.

Why not try the way of your prophet?


Question the spirit, was a pretty good piece of advice for everyday living from Christ.

So I ask, why does karnal carry on like this?

You lie, you make excuses for islamic atrocities, then you berate people who reject islam.

Why do you prefer the evil of islam goes unhindered in our society?

There is absolutely nothing in the teachings of Christ which urges people to be like you.

In fact the very opposite is the case.

Oh by the way you can only see hate in my methodology of derision and exposure of the stupidity and degeneracy of islam.

Do you have the same feeling about all those people who do exactly the same thing to the Christians?

Or are you a lying hypocrite karnal?
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Brian Ross
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Re: spineless apologetics
Reply #2208 - Oct 5th, 2017 at 7:40pm
 
Why do you avoid the idea of an exhaustive review of the evil in Christianity, Moses?

Oh, that's right, you don't recognise any evil in the Christian religion, do you?  Tsk, tsk, I'm sure all the Paedophiles take heart from your support...    Roll Eyes
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It seems that I have upset a Moderator and are forbidden from using memes. So much for Freedom of Speech. Tsk, tsk, tsk...   Roll Eyes Roll Eyes
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moses
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Re: spineless apologetics
Reply #2209 - Oct 5th, 2017 at 7:50pm
 
Already done 2017 years ago:
Luke 16:16  The law and the prophets were until John: since that time the kingdom of God is preached , and every man presseth into it.

Then they had the reformation, plus various implementations of the freedom of religion law, resulting in today 2017 our societies which have their roots in the Judaic/Christian ideals, are light years ahead of anybody else on the planet (particularly muslims).
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Karnal
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Re: spineless apologetics
Reply #2210 - Oct 5th, 2017 at 8:10pm
 
moses wrote on Oct 5th, 2017 at 7:24pm:
karnal wrote: Reply #2202 - Yesterday at 6:55pm

Quote:
That's what I said. You want people to hate, ban and kill Muslims. You post here with this sole intention.

I can't see how your stance is any different to Muslim haters - a hater is a hater.


Oh please cut the deceitful hysteria.

Where have I ever advocated hate ban and kill? Why do you rely on lies karnal?

I have continuously, over the years, called for an exhaustive review of the evil in the doctrine of islam. This is the only way to defeat islamic terrorism. You know it, I know it, however we also know this will destroy islam as it destructs the muslim doctrine of an infallible unchangeable qur'an. You just prefer the status quo of death bloodshed and destruction, to islam addressing the evil in the qur'an which is the sole cause and motivation of the atrocities committed by muslims who obey the qur'an to the letter.    

Quote:
Prophet Yehesua never mentioned Roman or Gentile or Jewish hypocrites, He just said that not all who go in His name will enter the Kingdom. The central tenant of His teaching was love for all and the avoidance of hatred.

No exclusions, no exceptions. He even advised us to love our worst enemies. He used his own life to model this.

It's impossible to conceive that prophet Yeheshua would suggest that we hate Muslims, but this is your sole message here. You reserve a special hatred for those who suggest forgiveness or tolerance or any form of mercy for Muslims.

I don't think anyone here has said you shouldn't have the right to promote your hatred. Some of us just question your decision to do so. After all, why? No Muslim's ever bothered you.

It reads as mere hatred for hatred's sake, but I'm curious.

Why not try the way of your prophet?


Question the spirit, was a pretty good piece of advice for everyday living from Christ.

So I ask, why does karnal carry on like this?

You lie, you make excuses for islamic atrocities, then you berate people who reject islam.

Why do you prefer the evil of islam goes unhindered in our society?

There is absolutely nothing in the teachings of Christ which urges people to be like you.

In fact the very opposite is the case.

Oh by the way you can only see hate in my methodology of derision and exposure of the stupidity and degeneracy of islam.

Do you have the same feeling about all those people who do exactly the same thing to the Christians?

Or are you a lying hypocrite karnal?


No, Moses, I see a difference between you sowing the seeds of hatred and division, and ISIS, say, killing or enslaving Christians and Christian communities. I think what ISIS have done is unimaginable. I literally can't imagine that kind of systematic cruelty and destruction. I agree with Tony Abbott's argument that this is, perhaps, worse than the Nazis, who tried to cover up their genocide. ISIS publicly celebrate theirs.

Your hatred, however, spawns the ISIS variety. It's the source of all human evil. This was the teaching of your prophet. It's the teaching of many prophets through the ages.

No one can ban or eradicate Islam. By this you mean banning and eradicating Muslims. You call for their banning, and you celebrate every attack on Muslims I've seen you discuss here. You call for hatred and division, which is precisely the opposite of Yeheshua's message, and you know this too.

Christianity does not support your views - hence your distance from it here. This is why I claim hypocrisy on your part.

If you can be specific on my hypocrisy, let me know. My words and actions are consistent with my views.

I don't preach hatred against anyone, including the haters. I'd like to see ISIS brought to justice. I'd like to see their victim's communities restored.

And I'd like to see you uphold the teachings of the one you profess to be your saviour.
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Karnal
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Re: spineless apologetics
Reply #2211 - Oct 5th, 2017 at 8:13pm
 
moses wrote on Oct 5th, 2017 at 7:50pm:
Already done 2017 years ago:
Luke 16:16  The law and the prophets were until John: since that time the kingdom of God is preached , and every man presseth into it.

Then they had the reformation, plus various implementations of the freedom of religion law, resulting in today 2017 our societies which have their roots in the Judaic/Christian ideals, are light years ahead of anybody else on the planet (particularly muslims).


Moses is right. Christianity is about love, the actions of Christians notwithstanding.
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Brian Ross
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Re: spineless apologetics
Reply #2212 - Oct 5th, 2017 at 8:55pm
 
moses wrote on Oct 5th, 2017 at 7:50pm:
Already done 2017 years ago:
Luke 16:16  The law and the prophets were until John: since that time the kingdom of God is preached , and every man presseth into it.

Then they had the reformation, plus various implementations of the freedom of religion law, resulting in today 2017 our societies which have their roots in the Judaic/Christian ideals, are light years ahead of anybody else on the planet (particularly muslims).



Yet all those Christians who are Paedophiles disagree with you, Moses.  How unsurprising...   Roll Eyes
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It seems that I have upset a Moderator and are forbidden from using memes. So much for Freedom of Speech. Tsk, tsk, tsk...   Roll Eyes Roll Eyes
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Frank
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Re: spineless apologetics
Reply #2213 - Oct 5th, 2017 at 9:13pm
 
Brian Ross wrote on Oct 5th, 2017 at 7:40pm:
Why do you avoid the idea of an exhaustive review of the evil in Christianity, Moses?

Oh, that's right, you don't recognise any evil in the Christian religion, do you?  Tsk, tsk, I'm sure all the Paedophiles take heart from your support...    Roll Eyes

Because it is a smokescreen up by idiots like you, to avoid the spotlight being shone on the evils of Islam perpetrated TODAY, not 300 years ago, you devious, dishonest squishy old stupid hag.
Do you follow? Then, now, time difference, change, current situation? Or are going to insist on being a resolutely moronic spineless old enemy of the West?
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Estragon: I can’t go on like this.
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Frank
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Re: spineless apologetics
Reply #2214 - Oct 5th, 2017 at 9:14pm
 
Brian Ross wrote on Oct 5th, 2017 at 8:55pm:
moses wrote on Oct 5th, 2017 at 7:50pm:
Already done 2017 years ago:
Luke 16:16  The law and the prophets were until John: since that time the kingdom of God is preached , and every man presseth into it.

Then they had the reformation, plus various implementations of the freedom of religion law, resulting in today 2017 our societies which have their roots in the Judaic/Christian ideals, are light years ahead of anybody else on the planet (particularly muslims).



Yet all those Christians who are Paedophiles disagree with you, Moses.  How unsurprising...   Roll Eyes

I have always suspected you, Bwian, big of you to own up.

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Estragon: I can’t go on like this.
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Brian Ross
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Re: spineless apologetics
Reply #2215 - Oct 5th, 2017 at 9:31pm
 
Frank wrote on Oct 5th, 2017 at 9:13pm:
Brian Ross wrote on Oct 5th, 2017 at 7:40pm:
Why do you avoid the idea of an exhaustive review of the evil in Christianity, Moses?

Oh, that's right, you don't recognise any evil in the Christian religion, do you?  Tsk, tsk, I'm sure all the Paedophiles take heart from your support...    Roll Eyes

Because it is a smokescreen up by idiots like you, to avoid the spotlight being shone on the evils of Islam perpetrated TODAY, not 300 years ago, you devious, dishonest squishy old stupid hag.
Do you follow? Then, now, time difference, change, current situation? Or are going to insist on being a resolutely moronic spineless old enemy of the West?


...

Oh, dearie, dearie, me.  Move along folks, it's just Soren showing his usual ad hominem arguments.  Be oh, so protective of his pet religion it seems.  Tsk, tsk.    Roll Eyes
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It seems that I have upset a Moderator and are forbidden from using memes. So much for Freedom of Speech. Tsk, tsk, tsk...   Roll Eyes Roll Eyes
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Karnal
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Re: spineless apologetics
Reply #2216 - Oct 5th, 2017 at 9:35pm
 
Frank wrote on Oct 5th, 2017 at 9:14pm:
Brian Ross wrote on Oct 5th, 2017 at 8:55pm:
moses wrote on Oct 5th, 2017 at 7:50pm:
Already done 2017 years ago:
Luke 16:16  The law and the prophets were until John: since that time the kingdom of God is preached , and every man presseth into it.

Then they had the reformation, plus various implementations of the freedom of religion law, resulting in today 2017 our societies which have their roots in the Judaic/Christian ideals, are light years ahead of anybody else on the planet (particularly muslims).



Yet all those Christians who are Paedophiles disagree with you, Moses.  How unsurprising...   Roll Eyes

I have always suspected you, Bwian, big of you to own up.



The old boy's saying you've confessed to being a paedophile, Brian.

Tsk tsk tsk.
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Brian Ross
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Re: spineless apologetics
Reply #2217 - Oct 5th, 2017 at 10:24pm
 
Frank wrote on Oct 5th, 2017 at 9:14pm:
Brian Ross wrote on Oct 5th, 2017 at 8:55pm:
moses wrote on Oct 5th, 2017 at 7:50pm:
Already done 2017 years ago:
Luke 16:16  The law and the prophets were until John: since that time the kingdom of God is preached , and every man presseth into it.

Then they had the reformation, plus various implementations of the freedom of religion law, resulting in today 2017 our societies which have their roots in the Judaic/Christian ideals, are light years ahead of anybody else on the planet (particularly muslims).



Yet all those Christians who are Paedophiles disagree with you, Moses.  How unsurprising...   Roll Eyes

I have always suspected you, Bwian, big of you to own up.


...

Oh, dearie, dearie, me.  Move along folks, nothing original here, just Soren showing off his usual ad hominem arguments.   Tsk, tsk.   Roll Eyes
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It seems that I have upset a Moderator and are forbidden from using memes. So much for Freedom of Speech. Tsk, tsk, tsk...   Roll Eyes Roll Eyes
WWW  
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Lastone
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Re: spineless apologetics
Reply #2218 - Oct 5th, 2017 at 10:42pm
 
moses wrote on Oct 5th, 2017 at 7:23pm:
Lastone wrote:
Quote:
Wonderful how do we let those Christians still advocating for Leviticus 20:13 know that it no longer applies? I assume you voted yes for marriage equality?


If you want to tell them, quote the verses I gave you.

Other than that, our law tells these people they are wrong.

Civilized societies do not allow this sort of behaviour.

There are people, Christian and non Christian, who are opposed to the act of homosexuality, I would hope they all have enough understanding to know that people can't help they way they are born.


There in lies the problem. They believe that Homosexuals choose to be so.
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I am yet to see a trickle down lift anyone up
 
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polite_gandalf
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Re: spineless apologetics
Reply #2219 - Oct 6th, 2017 at 9:36am
 
Frank wrote on Oct 4th, 2017 at 6:57pm:
polite_gandalf wrote on Oct 3rd, 2017 at 3:28pm:
And yet it is undeniable that the US kills significantly more people - it is undeniable that the US creates signficantly more suffering.

You are confusing greater military efficiency with moral superiority. Frankly, the US doesn't have to "try" to maximise casualties to achieve their economic and political objectives. In fact mostly its counter-productive. But whatever atrocities you commit during war, it was the Americans themselves who identified, more than 70 years ago, the 'supreme crime' - the crime from which all other war crimes spawn from. And that of course is the act of aggressive war - ie invading another country without just cause. And we can see the wisdom of that logic playing out today right before our very eyes: all the atrocities and horrors that spawned from the single act of unnecessarily invading Iraq. So seriously did the WWII Allies take the idea that aggressive war was the supreme crime, that they executed 24 of Germany's top brass because of their role in enacting aggressive war. Not because of any involvement they may have had in the holocaust, or any other acts of mass murder during the war - but because they kicked the whole thing off, and made all the subsequent atrocities possible. The holocaust simply wouldn't have happened if these guys didn't help commit the crime of aggressive war.

So alevine, next time you find yourself thinking how morally superior the US government is to ISIS, just remember that they committed what they themselves described 70 years earlier as the supreme crime, and kicked off all the hell we see in Iraq and Syria today - including the rise of ISIS.



What was the "just cause" of the Muslim invasion and take-over of the Roman Empire? Ottoman invasion of Europe? Of India? Raiding Europe to kidnap and sell into slavery over a million people, capturing and trading countless African slaves? What was the 'just cause'?

Please explain.


Sorry Frank, you seem to be under the illusion that my arguments about the destruction wrought by the US in the last half century or so is part of some cunning ploy to apologise for 1400 years of muslim military activity. It is not.
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A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
Quote:
Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.
 
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