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So I am either just "blatantly making sh*t up" or insisting Abu is MUhammed? It couldn't possibly be that I am just trying to make sense of all the double speak from Muslims?

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No I don't. Like I said, either way, Islam looks bad. It just reinforces the lack of any real contribution that Muslims would cling to such a dubious contribution that lead nowhere, except a poem about the supposed inventor breaking his neck.

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The primary evidence is a single poem mocking the guy in a 700 year period. You spent about a dozen pages insisting I do proper academic referencing. Is this what you meant? Inventing the story of a flying machine from a 700 year old poem?

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Because my original point was that Islam stifles basic science.

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Let's stick to one at a time, shall we? I haven't looked into that one, and don't feel any great urge to unearth yet another Islamic folly.

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My point was that it is an absurd stretch to equate maths and physics in order to make a claim that Islam does not stifle basic science.

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They are unnecessary. Same with Newton's laws, which are usually introduced by explanation rather than by equation. Pick up a physics textbook. It might help you figure out the difference between physics and maths.

Quite. The exploitation of the ubermenschen for the war effort is just one example.

The extermination of said underlings another.

Shurely shome mishtake, eh?

freediver wrote on Mar 5^th, 2013 at 9:11pm:


There's no comparison. The posterboys of fundamentalist Islam, the Taliban, are so different to the modernist putsch that was Nazism, it's apples and oranges.

Think - Nazism was tribalism in jackboots. Teutonic ritual in military formation. It was a modern eugenic movement borrowing from the past. It was centralized, systematic and hi-tech. Nazism was the essence of the modern corporate state.

The Taliban ARE the past. The only modern thing about the Taliban are rocket launchers, satellite phones and Kalishnikovs. From what I understand, their organizational structure is essentially tribal.

Values are clearly important in both movements. Obviously, I'd argue against both sets of values, although there's elements of each movement that are positive. The Taliban is a rejection of modernity, consumerism, greed and imperialism. It values simplicity - family values, religious values (to a degree - many in the Taliban are illiterate and uneducated and would never read a Koran - hence the religious imperative to blow things up).

The Nazis liked blowing things up too. They believed war had a social "cleansing" function. War mobilized the population and brought them into the present. For Nazism to work, there had to be a clear and ever-present enemy.

Old boys Nazis argue this all the time. They love Islam because it's an ever-present enemy. The cheese-dealer has argued that Islam is the enemy. It's very purpose is to be the enemy - a very self-serving argument, but one that values war for its own sake.

Perhaps the more fundamentalist schools of Islam share this with Nazism through external jihad. Their's is a "spiritual" battle. For the Nazis, the battle was social and racial. It was about purifying and improving upon the human species - well, the "German blood", anyway. The ignorant view of jihad believes in martyrdom for its own sake - slave morality at its most basic. Both treat individuals as cells in a living body. Both value the willingness to give up your own life for an abstracted and mediated social good. Both cheapen human life and will, if not commodify it.

But as movements, they share very little in terms of objectives or world views.

I don't think "off the rails" islamic youth is essentially a westie problem. They seem to be robbing the shite out of the wealthier suburbs. You can ignore it all you want. They won't embrace "OUR" system and thus are poorly educated. But still want what everybody has except they don't want to work for it. That's why so many muslim lebanese youth are into crime.

polite_gandalf wrote on Mar 6^th, 2013 at 3:34pm:



gotta get the goodies to the kiddies before they can be brainwashed.
a national curiculum of decadence

Mattyfisk wrote on Mar 6^th, 2013 at 3:55pm:

I suppose houses getting shot up is a myth too Karnal.

Annie Anthrax wrote on Mar 6^th, 2013 at 4:53pm:
  My post was directed at "off the rails islamic youth". Can't you read. Did I write 'the whole islamic community"?