Australian Politics Forum - Muslims want 'freedom'?

abu_rashid

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Re: Muslims want 'freedom'?
Reply #15 - Mar 18^th, 2012 at 8:39pm

Avram Horowitz wrote on Mar 18^th, 2012 at 8:32pm:

many does not speak to us in Hebrew,,

As i also say even in Arabic they causes problems and has very rude behavior.

I do not speak of the Israeli Arabs in Tel Aviv.

Well I guess they consider it the language of occupation, hence their reluctance to give it any validity whatsoever.

Who could blame them?

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Avram Horowitz Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 3153 Australia Gender:	Re: Muslims want 'freedom'? Reply #16 - Mar 18^th, 2012 at 8:44pm If they does not like the checkpoints the Palestinians can know that the security fence construction helps to make them less so,, So is crazy to keep making threats on this constructions of it.
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Avram Horowitz

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Re: Muslims want 'freedom'?
Reply #17 - Mar 18^th, 2012 at 8:51pm

abu_rashid wrote on Mar 18^th, 2012 at 8:39pm:

Avram Horowitz wrote on Mar 18^th, 2012 at 8:32pm:

many does not speak to us in Hebrew,,

As i also say even in Arabic they causes problems and has very rude behavior.

I do not speak of the Israeli Arabs in Tel Aviv.

Well I guess they consider it the language of occupation, hence their reluctance to give it any validity whatsoever.

Who could blame them?

It is they who is to blame,,

Hebron is good example. They knows total the rules that cannot enter streets blocked off by IDF because of security and go toward settlements of Jewish land. They must have the ID pass to do so,, so they know is not occupation -- its is rules enforced by army.

Palestinians knows this, this is times when we call to them in Hebrew and they makes pretence that they cannot understand us,

So blame,, is not to us in Hebron as example.

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freediver Gold Member Offline www.ozpolitic.com Posts: 50283 At my desk.	Re: Muslims want 'freedom'? Reply #18 - Mar 18^th, 2012 at 9:16pm Hate to change the topic on you guys. Abu, do you see Islam as a rejection of freedom, or just a different 'interpretation' of it?
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falah

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Re: Muslims want 'freedom'?
Reply #19 - Mar 19^th, 2012 at 9:38am

Avram Horowitz wrote on Mar 18^th, 2012 at 7:39pm:

freediver wrote on Mar 18^th, 2012 at 7:35pm:

Avram Horowitz wrote on Mar 18^th, 2012 at 7:23pm:

freediver wrote on Mar 18^th, 2012 at 7:19pm:

Do they try to redefine Hebrew words for you so that they can say nice things about Islam in Hebrew without lying?

They never learns Hebrew but we learns their Arabic

That must be hard for you. It is difficult enough trying to get a straight answer from a Muslim in English when we are both native speakers.

It is for security points, when aske the questions in Hebrew they does not answer to me,

So we do Arabic too but you know too they answer rude and no cooperate many times so slows process and makes the I d more difficult

You occupy their country, steal their homes and farmland, force them to go through checkpoints and they are rude to you?

Do you think that they are being ungrateful?

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« Last Edit: Mar 19^th, 2012 at 11:00am by falah »

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bobbythefap1 Gold Member Offline Posts: 7026 Listen now to the rain	Re: Muslims want 'freedom'? Reply #20 - Mar 19^th, 2012 at 9:55am Western society keeps billions of people in economic chains to use them as slaves, which is actually a lot more effective than direct captivity. As a result of this billions suffer their entire lives and billions die due to poverty and other things as a result. But I am sure this would not bother any of you.
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freediver

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Re: Muslims want 'freedom'?
Reply #21 - Mar 19^th, 2012 at 12:53pm

bobbythefap1 wrote on Mar 19^th, 2012 at 9:55am:

Western society keeps billions of people in economic chains to use them as slaves, which is actually a lot more effective than direct captivity.
As a result of this billions suffer their entire lives and billions die due to poverty and other things as a result.

But I am sure this would not bother any of you.

Does this mean you would be in favour of an Islamic style return to the legalisation of slavery? Or would you change your tune pretty quickly once the reality sunk in?

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abu_rashid

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Re: Muslims want 'freedom'?
Reply #22 - Mar 19^th, 2012 at 6:16pm

Avram Horowitz wrote on Mar 18^th, 2012 at 8:44pm:

If they does not like the checkpoints the Palestinians can know that the security fence construction helps to make them less so,,

So is crazy to keep making threats on this constructions of it.

Sorry, but if you waltzed into my country, put up checkpoints and started making my life hell, I'd make sure you suffered every second of it.

Get the hell outta their land, and then they will have no problem with you, I'm sure.

When you're back in Czechoslovakia or wherever you said you hail from, then I'm sure Palestinians would have no problem with you at all. Whilst you're putting up checkpoints in their country, making their lives a misery, then you can expect a little resistance.

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abu_rashid

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Re: Muslims want 'freedom'?
Reply #23 - Mar 19^th, 2012 at 6:50pm

Avram Horowitz wrote on Mar 18^th, 2012 at 8:51pm:

So blame,, is not to us in Hebron as example.

Ah yes Khalil.. As we can see in this video, the encroaching vermin that are taking over Khalil leave the Palestinians with no choice but to board up their homes to prevent them seeping in through the cracks.

One of these soldiers are you? Enforcing this kind of despicable behaviour? I can see now why you're proud...

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abu_rashid

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Re: Muslims want 'freedom'?
Reply #24 - Mar 19^th, 2012 at 6:52pm

freediver wrote on Mar 18^th, 2012 at 9:16pm:

Hate to change the topic on you guys.

Abu, do you see Islam as a rejection of freedom, or just a different 'interpretation' of it?

First define precisely what you mean when you say "freedom". I'm quite sure each and every one of us here has a different set of delimiters for what they mean when they say "freedom" without a clear context.

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Jan

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Re: Muslims want 'freedom'?
Reply #25 - Mar 19^th, 2012 at 7:00pm

Avram Horowitz wrote on Mar 18^th, 2012 at 8:13pm:

abu_rashid wrote on Mar 18^th, 2012 at 8:09pm:

Avram Horowitz wrote on Mar 18^th, 2012 at 7:23pm:

freediver wrote on Mar 18^th, 2012 at 7:19pm:

Do they try to redefine Hebrew words for you so that they can say nice things about Islam in Hebrew without lying?

They never learns Hebrew but we learns their Arabic

You're seriously not in touch with reality are you? The vast majority of Palestinians speak Hebrew, all of those living within the occupied territories do, and those in the West Bank usually know enough to speak fluently, whilst those in Gaza probably don't know so much, but can still understand basics, although less so nowadays that they've been locked up in a big open air concentration camp.

I am very reality touched,, i live this experience,,

i tell you 100% that most, big most majority, does not reply to us or answer when we speaks to them in Hebrew,

In Hebron, they never answers to us in Hebrew,, never.

Your a stooge avram! If you're such a good linguist, why don't you learns de english gooder.

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Avram Horowitz Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 3153 Australia Gender:	Re: Muslims want 'freedom'? Reply #26 - Mar 19^th, 2012 at 7:36pm English is my 3. Language jan, tell me how is your Hebrew? Have you Hebrew better than I write English,,
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Avram Horowitz

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Re: Muslims want 'freedom'?
Reply #27 - Mar 19^th, 2012 at 7:43pm

abu_rashid wrote on Mar 19^th, 2012 at 6:16pm:

Avram Horowitz wrote on Mar 18^th, 2012 at 8:44pm:

If they does not like the checkpoints the Palestinians can know that the security fence construction helps to make them less so,,

So is crazy to keep making threats on this constructions of it.

Sorry, but if you waltzed into my country, put up checkpoints and started making my life hell, I'd make sure you suffered every second of it.

Get the hell outta their land, and then they will have no problem with you, I'm sure.

When you're back in Czechoslovakia or wherever you said you hail from, then I'm sure Palestinians would have no problem with you at all. Whilst you're putting up checkpoints in their country, making their lives a misery, then you can expect a little resistance.

No you are wrong, I can not leave my own country, I am Israeli it is my home,

Czech? No this is not my homeland, is country of grandparentage before land of Israel homeland,

We can not leave because is our land.

"Take this land for I am the LORD, this land shall be given to the children of Abraham and of Isaac. Take this land in my name."

Exodus

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freediver

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Re: Muslims want 'freedom'?
Reply #28 - Mar 19^th, 2012 at 7:50pm

abu_rashid wrote on Mar 19^th, 2012 at 6:52pm:

freediver wrote on Mar 18^th, 2012 at 9:16pm:

Hate to change the topic on you guys.

Abu, do you see Islam as a rejection of freedom, or just a different 'interpretation' of it?

First define precisely what you mean when you say "freedom". I'm quite sure each and every one of us here has a different set of delimiters for what they mean when they say "freedom" without a clear context.

Abu I am not going to attempt a precise definition for you as this is merely another attempt by you to change the subject. I am not asking you whether Islam conforms to my concept of freedom, or to anyone else's. I am asking you whether you think Islam rejects freedom - obviously this means your own view of freedom. I think it will be bleeding obvious from this whether your 'interpretation' of freedom is actually slavery (or submission). I was actually hoping you might be honest enough to admit that Islam is a rejection of freedom.

The 'delimiters' to freedom do not imply a different definition of freedom - just a different view on where one person's freedom starts to infringe on someone else's. Two people arguing about this do not have different meanings for freedom. All this is a very long way from Islam's outright rejection of freedom.

You can either be honest about Islam and admit it rejects freedom in a fundamentaln way, or you can attempt some rediculous mental gymnastics and try to argue it is merely a different interpretation of where one person's freedom should be delimited in the interest of other people's freedom. None of this requires a precise definition of freedom.

Or perhaps you should leave it to Falah, who professed to personally want freedom for humanity, then ran away when questioned on it. I don't see much point in arguing about what freedom is with someone who does not claim to want it.

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« Last Edit: Mar 19^th, 2012 at 7:58pm by freediver »

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bobbythefap1

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Re: Muslims want 'freedom'?
Reply #29 - Mar 19^th, 2012 at 7:59pm

freediver wrote on Mar 19^th, 2012 at 12:53pm:

bobbythefap1 wrote on Mar 19^th, 2012 at 9:55am:

Western society keeps billions of people in economic chains to use them as slaves, which is actually a lot more effective than direct captivity.
As a result of this billions suffer their entire lives and billions die due to poverty and other things as a result.

But I am sure this would not bother any of you.

Does this mean you would be in favour of an Islamic style return to the legalisation of slavery? Or would you change your tune pretty quickly once the reality sunk in?

The only difference here is that one society admits it and the other lies about it..
Both seem bad but I would rather we admit it

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