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Legalisation of pot? (Read 112033 times)
Emma
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Re: Legalisation of pot?
Reply #585 - Apr 17th, 2013 at 1:35am
 
a fair question from someone of your purported innocence.

You haven't seen or understood what prohibition does in the world outside your haven.

So you are entitled to wonder.  I could repeat myself,  but.. it should be obvious..and I've argued it too much .. I just hope that one day the benefits will be acknowledged,  rather than the negatives being actively encouraged.

if you wonder... go back a few doz pages and read what I and others have said.

Or don't...  but .. either way .  .. informed .. or  not..  your comments are always welcome. Smiley

Do you live in a city.??
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miketrees
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Re: Legalisation of pot?
Reply #586 - Apr 17th, 2013 at 9:12pm
 
I am happy to answer your questions.

I live outer metropolitan semi rural Perth.

If I wanted to grow pot, I have the land the expertise, in fact I also have the drive to be the best at whatever I do, or die trying.
If I was a dope grower I would be gold medal.

Forgive me for not reading the tome of posts previous.
That does not leave me totally deficient of knowledge however.

I get into trouble for thinking differently to "normal" people.
That also served me well in making a living, I see "left handed" thinking as an asset.

So can you think of any unforeseen consequences of legalising dope?

Probably not because by definition they are unforeseen, however lets crank up your random thought generator and think of a few. (most people have their random thought generator beaten out of them by school and education)

In the meantime could you answer my question from last post. (Why the missionary zeal?)
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Emma
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Re: Legalisation of pot?
Reply #587 - Apr 17th, 2013 at 10:42pm
 
fair enough.. 

I  s'pose I stand up for myself.. and what I consider to be right.
I consider legalisation as preferred option and prohibition to be wrong.
I have lived in this society,.. and seen the division and disunity in our society as a result of these ludicrous laws..
the incredible harm this policy  CREATES.

Yes  I have been quite personally involved n the process,  off and on over the yrs......

and ..there has to be a better way,  and yes... I often feel outraged at the wrong path our society has chosen to go down.   so I express myself.!!

hope that answers, in some small degree, your curiosity.  Smiley

So can you think of any unforeseen consequences of legalising dope?

Probably not because by definition they are unforeseen, however lets crank up your random thought generator and think of a few. (most people have their random thought generator beaten out of them by school and education)


Ah this is often true  ... but I'm not one of them.

I don't think like  'normal' people either.  Wink

any unforeseen consequences of legalising dope?

that is a rather broad question.... 
Can I foresee unforeseen consequences of....... ?

Probably not because by definition they are unforeseen,

OK OK  .. yes I think I understand you... 

you ask whether I consider those 'consequences',.... perhaps already hi-lighted in media, or ignored by media,  need to be looked at in greater depth.

I absolutely agree Mickeytrees..  Smiley
It is not something to be summarised in a few short sentences...  and so I'll consider your request,  and ...

DO YOU  have some unforeseen 'consequences' in mind.?





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miketrees
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Re: Legalisation of pot?
Reply #588 - Apr 18th, 2013 at 7:51am
 
Yes, but better not to cloud your view.

(supplementary question without notice)

Are there any drugs or substances that should remain prohibited?
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Emma
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Re: Legalisation of pot?
Reply #589 - Apr 18th, 2013 at 8:16pm
 
another hard question.

I would prefer... personally
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Emma
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Re: Legalisation of pot?
Reply #590 - Apr 18th, 2013 at 8:29pm
 
ooops 

ahh its the red wine don't you know. ??

that man-made synthetic 'party' drugs remained illegal...  the hope being that access to formerly illicit drugs would wipe out the market for things such as ice, ecstasy..   other amphetamines and hallucinogenic's. 
There are after all plenty of substances not made in a lab, available.

My preference is based on the abhorrence I feel at the trafficking of such synthetic, one-off, who know's what it is?.. drug industry,.. which  is wholely harmful in the nature of the substances ingested and the criminals who benefit from that trafficking.

I do concede however,  that by doing so,  a black market would remain in those remaining illicit substances.  It seems to be human  base instinct to gain from using your fellows.

So...  overall,  only poisons should be illegal.

It is entirely clear, that as a species,  we will seek 'other' experiences...  perhaps only once or twice in a lifetime..
and sometimes as part of a person's  being.... and everything in between .  To try to govern this with punitive law is doomed to fail.







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miketrees
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Re: Legalisation of pot?
Reply #591 - Apr 19th, 2013 at 7:59pm
 
In the resource industries you need to be drug tested from time to time.
THC can be detected quite a while after its use, this has led to the use of some of those real nasty drugs like Kronic.
That is nasty poo.

OK I digress

My guess is that if THC were legal, many more work places would random drug test.
Like alcohol is legal you still cant have it in your system doing lots of jobs.

^^^^ That may be an unintended consequence?.

What are my drug dealing friends going to do if they cant ply their trade as dope dealers?
I guess they will find some alternate substances to sell.
Becoming a law abiding worker is probably not on the radar.
Perhaps selling dope to people not old enough to legally purchase THC.

I am just throwing in a few possibilities
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Lionel Edriess
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Re: Legalisation of pot?
Reply #592 - Apr 20th, 2013 at 12:52pm
 
After reading some 10 pages of comment on this topic, I thought I might make a comment or two.

Have I had any experience with the drug? Well ,yes, a 40 year acquaintance and a bit of dabbling in other mind-altering substances.

First off, I'd have to say that I am not in favour of legalisation, rather that I am in favour of decriminalisation. The 'War on Drugs' is an un-winnable one, just as Prohibition was all those years ago in the States. Everybody is aware of the amount of money generated, the violence involved and the corruption that has become so entrenched throughout both police and politics.

What if we were to decriminalise marijuana use? The personal possession of say, a quarter of an ounce, though still liable for confiscation, would not be a classified as a criminal offence. If you could grow your own, say two plants per adult per household, still liable for confiscation but not a criminal offence. No 'dealing' permitted - minimum 5 years. Criminal organisations, and/or its members involved in whole production and distribution - minimum 25 years.

Society currently allows other drugs, like alcohol and tobacco, despite the huge amount of research and statistics that illustrate both the personal damage and the damage to others in society. It will be long time before Government legislates away the taxes it gains from the sales of both these drugs. And I see no reason to provide government with another tax stream when they have already demonstrated their irresponsibility with that from other drugs.

The hydroponic varieties available today as opposed to what was available 40 years ago is like comparing moonshine to beer. Small wonder we witness the effects on the young of today, they continue to push the envelope just as the young always have.

Hopefully, by decriminalisation, the market for weed would shrivel to such an extent that criminals would not continue to make the effort.

As to its increased usage, I see very little difference between its use and that of alcohol. Its overuse will attract the same sort of condemnation from society as that of the overuse of alcohol. It will remain unacceptable to be under the influence in the workplace, just as it already is with alcohol.

Just sayin'.
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miketrees
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Re: Legalisation of pot?
Reply #593 - Apr 20th, 2013 at 6:50pm
 
I find it unhelpful to bring alcohol and nicotine into the debate about THC.

Its a bit like saying hey I slashed my face with broken glass but its ok because I just got a barbed wire suppository as well.

No matter how bad alcohol or nicotine are they will not alter the safety or otherwise of THC.
(not that it matters but I hate  what alcohol and nicotine has done to our society)
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Lionel Edriess
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Re: Legalisation of pot?
Reply #594 - Apr 20th, 2013 at 7:50pm
 
miketrees wrote on Apr 20th, 2013 at 6:50pm:
I find it unhelpful to bring alcohol and nicotine into the debate about THC. ...


Why? What's the difference? Aren't they both addictive, physically dangerous drugs that are sold, with some restrictions about the age of users, with the full approval of Government who then merrily accepts both the human toll and the taxes that the sales of these products generate?

Any statistics on the number of family breakdowns/domestic violence caused by pot use (in moderation)?

miketrees wrote on Apr 20th, 2013 at 6:50pm:
... Its a bit like saying hey I slashed my face with broken glass but its ok because I just got a barbed wire suppository as well.


It's not really hard to imagine that many tobacco smokers might give up tobacco in favour of the weed. After all, cigarettes are bad for you. How many drinkers/smokers do you see who already combine the legalised habits? You can brew your own beer, why not grow your own pot? The same type of restrictions already in place could apply to decriminalised THC use and production.

miketrees wrote on Apr 20th, 2013 at 6:50pm:
... No matter how bad alcohol or nicotine are they will not alter the safety or otherwise of THC.
(not that it matters but I hate  what alcohol and nicotine has done to our society)


We have to factor into this discussion some recognition of the Homo Sapiens species predilection for getting off their face! It's not gonna stop! Booze and smokes have been around since we learned to congregate in caves.

But to think that the newer general population will ever surrender this choice of a cleaner, healthier alternative is naive.

All that remains is a nod from Government.


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Emma
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Re: Legalisation of pot?
Reply #595 - Apr 20th, 2013 at 10:10pm
 
some fair comments there.. Lion Ed...

If your idea of Decriminalisation embraced a licensing system for those grow-your-own-ers .. I could consider it has some advantages to open slather..  to continue punitive police action on these people is criminal in itself.

I intend to answer Mickyt's challenge,  but I think the country can only benefit from a radical change in this area of Law.

The best way ??  not my job..  but I have ideas. Of course the answer 's I supply are consequences/outcomes I can fore see... not guaranteed by anyone... including me. Smiley

To wit ..

Mickyt

I think the question is a paradox...  if your question had been what consequences do you foresee ??? ..that's different ....
so allow me to elucidate.. on that basis.

These are both long and short term ...  and I'll put them in simple point form...  but in no particular order of preference, or timeline.

- many many more police officers would be able to pursue real crime and criminals.

- Courts of Law would be able to address serious issues of Law,  rather than being swamped with these matters, and the backlog in our Courts would disappear in a short time.

- Property crimes, thefts , robberies would be greatly reduced.

- Drunk and drug driving would decrease significantly.

-The Prison population would decrease significantly .

- Domestic violence incidents would decrease.

- Overall.. the level of alcoholism and dependence on tobacco would decrease.. over time. 

- The savings from the above outcomes would become available for the protection and care of the disadvantaged and unwell.

- Depending on how the govt taxed the new approach...
potentially the National Deficit would reduce to Nil and produce a Surplus in a yr or two.

- Farmers would be rejuvenated, and be able to grow legitimate crops that are much  easier on the environment
and allow a resurgence in rural Australia.

- Agricultural focus will look to the uses and benefits and come out ahead. Smiley

- Medicine would  be advanced, with the stigma removed,  the benefits for health ..overall  would be eye-opening,  and the opportunities for medical and scientific research would open.

- Medical therapies already available in Australia...  thru stealth and going against societal norms .. would become freely and legally available..  And CHEAPLY. 


SO  MICKYT

there  are a few of the consequences I can fore see. 
I have more..  Smiley

but perhaps you 'd like to comment ...?

cheers







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Lionel Edriess
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Re: Legalisation of pot?
Reply #596 - Apr 21st, 2013 at 4:52pm
 
Emma wrote on Apr 20th, 2013 at 10:10pm:
... If your idea of Decriminalisation embraced a licensing system for those grow-your-own-ers .. I could consider it has some advantages to open slather..  to continue punitive police action on these people is criminal in itself. ...


Totally agree.

You can drink booze 'til it runs out your ears - but share a spliff with a few friends around a BBQ on a Saturday and, if caught, you are judged a criminal.

As far as I'm concerned, there's not a great deal of difference in the substance you're imbibing - it's the difference in the penalties that matter.
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miketrees
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Re: Legalisation of pot?
Reply #597 - Apr 22nd, 2013 at 5:50pm
 
Farmers would be rejuvenated, and be able to grow legitimate crops that are much  easier on the environment
and allow a resurgence in rural Australia.

- Agricultural focus will look to the uses and benefits and come out ahead

I cant see this.

Need to see how you arrived at this.
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Re: Legalisation of pot?
Reply #598 - Apr 22nd, 2013 at 5:58pm
 
Lionel Edriess wrote on Apr 20th, 2013 at 7:50pm:
Any statistics on the number of family breakdowns/domestic violence caused by pot use (in moderation)?




Be about the same as alcohol being 'used in moderation' I would think.

Most things 'used in moderation' tend to not be too deleterious, being that is the definition of moderation.


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Emma
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Re: Legalisation of pot?
Reply #599 - Apr 22nd, 2013 at 10:31pm
 
miketrees wrote on Apr 22nd, 2013 at 5:50pm:
Farmers would be rejuvenated, and be able to grow legitimate crops that are much  easier on the environment
and allow a resurgence in rural Australia.

- Agricultural focus will look to the uses and benefits and come out ahead

I cant see this.

Need to see how you arrived at this.


How can you not see this??

  For one example/
- People who once needed thousands or even millions of square miles of  irrigated land to produce cotton.or rice..... could use a fraction of the space and inputs to produce a crop at least as valuable, Roll Eyes ...and enable the rest of the land to be rehabilitated and/or put to other , better crops, or better landcare usage.
Such as other hemp varieties,  which our elders discovered, had many many uses,  and ..  does not leave an indelible mark  like plastics and synthetic materials.
Nor require the high levels of use of pesticides, insecticides and fertiliser...  all anathema to a healthy environment.

A hardy plant..  in fact.. capable of becoming a weed.. it offers much to producers.
Another example... all those Dairy farmers struggling and about to lose all,  could turn their very fertile, unviable
dairy farm  into an organically grown wealth of riches... not bow down and die before Coles and Woolworths,  if they CHOSE.

Entirely fore-seeable.  Smiley
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