Australian Politics Forum

locutius

Gold Member

Offline

You can't fight in here!
It's the War Room

Posts: 1817
Queensland
Gender: male

Re: Ban the Burqa
Reply #30 - Jun 23^rd, 2010 at 10:47am

Equitist wrote on Jun 23^rd, 2010 at 10:22am:

Sprintcyclist wrote on Jun 23^rd, 2010 at 10:01am:

thy - you may well be rightere. I'm happy to give you the benefit of the doubt.

however, your argument is a fallacy
ie, fred niles history has no bearing on this topic.
by proving the man "wrong" in the past, it has no bearing on this proposal

On the contrary, based on previous form, Fred Nile's agenda is far more likely driven by religious bigotry against an opposing faith, than it is a concern for either 'security' or 'women's rights'!

If he has a problem with Muslims per se, then he should bloody well say so - rather than hide his true agenda under false pretenses which contradict his previous anti-women's rights pet projects...

PS I will make no secret that I despise Fred Nile - primarily on the grounds that he's a patently draconian and chauvanistic bigot! That said, I also point out that: I find many Muslim (and other religious and political) leaders equally repulsive for similar reasons; and I do NOT support the external imposition of dress rules on women, however, I support the right of individual women to CHOOSE to cover up - or not!

Absolutely spot on!!!

Back to top

I dream of a better tomorrow, where chickens can cross the road and not be questioned about their motives.

IP Logged

Soren

Gold Member

Offline

Posts: 25654
Gender: male

Re: Ban the Burqa
Reply #31 - Jun 23^rd, 2010 at 10:49am

Equitist wrote on Jun 23^rd, 2010 at 10:22am:

If he has a problem with Muslims per se, then he should bloody well say so -

Check his party's name and take a wild guess.
Also:

Nile wants stop to Muslim migrants
Simon Kearney From: The Australian March 12, 2007 THE most successful Christian political party in NSW is calling for a moratorium on Muslim immigration to Australia, replacing them with persecuted Christians from the Middle East.

Christian Democratic Party leader Fred Nile, the longest-serving MP in the NSW upper house, who made an unsuccessful bid for the federal Senate in 2004, said the moratorium should be in place to allow a study of the effects of Muslim migration.

Back to top

IP Logged

locutius Gold Member Offline You can't fight in here! It's the War Room Posts: 1817 Queensland Gender:	Re: Ban the Burqa Reply #32 - Jun 23^rd, 2010 at 11:12am That's not actually the point Thy was making by the way I read it. Fact is Fred missed his true calling by 700 years. Fred is no friend to many more than just the Muslims..
Back to top	I dream of a better tomorrow, where chickens can cross the road and not be questioned about their motives. IP Logged

Equitist

Gold Member

Offline

Australian Politics

Posts: 9632
NSW

Re: Ban the Burqa
Reply #33 - Jun 23^rd, 2010 at 11:13am

Sprintcyclist wrote on Jun 23^rd, 2010 at 10:41am:

thy - his agenda could well be driven by a religious bigotry against an opposing faith.
that's immaterial to what his proposal should be judged on.
the proposal has to be judged/voted on its own merits.

play the ball, not the man

yoou are aware of the study of fallacies ?

Err...ummnnn...perhaps I failed to explain...that I am rallying against the bizarre fallacy that the chauvanistic bigot Fred Nile is concerned about women's rights, period!

PS I also point out the irony that he habitually plays the wo/man and that his agenda is anything but 'open', 'free' and 'democratic' - it is fundamentally narrow and OPPRESSIVE!

Back to top

« Last Edit: Jun 23^rd, 2010 at 11:45am by Equitist »

Lamenting the shift in the Australian psyche, away from the egalitarian ideal of the fair-go - and the rise of short-sighted pollies, who worship the 'Growth Fairy' and seek to divide and conquer!

IP Logged

Equitist

Gold Member

Offline

Australian Politics

Posts: 9632
NSW

Re: Ban the Burqa
Reply #34 - Jun 23^rd, 2010 at 11:19am

Soren wrote on Jun 23^rd, 2010 at 10:49am:

Equitist wrote on Jun 23^rd, 2010 at 10:22am:

If he has a problem with Muslims per se, then he should bloody well say so -

Check his party's name and take a wild guess.
Also:

Nile wants stop to Muslim migrants
Simon Kearney From: The Australian March 12, 2007 THE most successful Christian political party in NSW is calling for a moratorium on Muslim immigration to Australia, replacing them with persecuted Christians from the Middle East.

Christian Democratic Party leader Fred Nile, the longest-serving MP in the NSW upper house, who made an unsuccessful bid for the federal Senate in 2004, said the moratorium should be in place to allow a study of the effects of Muslim migration.

LOL...I, for one, would denounce his choice of party name as patently (even paternalistically) oxymoronic!

That said, I do not disagree with the gist of what you stated here (except that to formally impose such a policy would be inherently divisive and largely unwarranted as regards Burqa-wearing): -

Quote:

The garment should not be banned. However, obscuring one's identity by any means in public spaces, on religious grounds should be disallowed. Turn it around - if no religion is to be established, then the public space (public thoroughfare, school, offices, courts etc) are also not to be fragmented by claims of special religious privileges either.

Back to top

Lamenting the shift in the Australian psyche, away from the egalitarian ideal of the fair-go - and the rise of short-sighted pollies, who worship the 'Growth Fairy' and seek to divide and conquer!

IP Logged

perceptions_now Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 11694 Perth WA Gender:	Re: Ban the Burqa Reply #35 - Jun 23^rd, 2010 at 11:56am I have no problem, in getting rid of the Burka, especially if we get rid a few other trappings, such as the Monks Abbott, I mean Habit and the Judges robes etc. Actually, the Burka, from outside perspective, seems more an issue of retention of power, by men over women!
Back to top	IP Logged

muso

Gold Member

Offline

Posts: 13151
Gladstone, Queensland
Gender: male

Re: Ban the Burqa
Reply #36 - Jun 23^rd, 2010 at 12:02pm

mozzaok wrote on Jun 23^rd, 2010 at 12:33am:

It is a bloody mask for christs sake.

Nobody is demanding they wear micro bikinis and pole dance on the steps of the town hall, we are just asking that they show enough respect for the society they have chosen to be a part of, to meet it face to face.

It's not about wearing a mask. At least be honest and say it like Sprint has. You object to the fact that they are Muslims.

This ban on 'masks' that you want to legislate. How are you going to enforce it? What about people of other religions, such as certain Christians who wear masks? What about halloween, or fancy dress parties? Should it be illegal to wear anything that masks your identity during street parades? - or would you need a special licence to wear a mask?

What you are seeking to do is to restrict the freedom of people. In that respect, you're no better than the Reverend Fred W Nile (W for Wowser)

Back to top

1523 people like this. The remaining 7,134,765,234 do not

IP Logged

Equitist

Gold Member

Offline

Australian Politics

Posts: 9632
NSW

Re: Ban the Burqa
Reply #37 - Jun 23^rd, 2010 at 12:04pm

muso wrote on Jun 23^rd, 2010 at 12:02pm:

mozzaok wrote on Jun 23^rd, 2010 at 12:33am:

It is a bloody mask for christs sake.

Nobody is demanding they wear micro bikinis and pole dance on the steps of the town hall, we are just asking that they show enough respect for the society they have chosen to be a part of, to meet it face to face.

It's not about wearing a mask. At least be honest and say it like Sprint has. You object to the fact that they are Muslims.

This ban on 'masks' that you want to legislate. How are you going to enforce it? What about people of other religions, such as certain Christians who wear masks? What about halloween, or fancy dress parties? Should it be illegal to wear anything that masks your identity during street parades? - or would you need a special licence to wear a mask?

What you are seeking to do is to restrict the freedom of people. In that respect, you're no better than the Reverend Fred W Nile (W for Wowser)

Cute kid, poignant pic!

Back to top

Lamenting the shift in the Australian psyche, away from the egalitarian ideal of the fair-go - and the rise of short-sighted pollies, who worship the 'Growth Fairy' and seek to divide and conquer!

IP Logged

muso Gold Member Offline Posts: 13151 Gladstone, Queensland Gender:	Re: Ban the Burqa Reply #38 - Jun 23^rd, 2010 at 1:22pm It's not what you think it is. It's a traditional religious festival in Spain or Portugal.
Back to top	1523 people like this. The remaining 7,134,765,234 do not IP Logged

Equitist Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 9632 NSW	Re: Ban the Burqa Reply #39 - Jun 23^rd, 2010 at 2:41pm muso wrote on Jun 23^rd, 2010 at 1:22pm: It's not what you think it is. It's a traditional religious festival in Spain or Portugal. Perhaps so - but my comments stand!?
Back to top	Lamenting the shift in the Australian psyche, away from the egalitarian ideal of the fair-go - and the rise of short-sighted pollies, who worship the 'Growth Fairy' and seek to divide and conquer! IP Logged

Sprintcyclist

Gold Member

Offline

OzPolitic

Posts: 41678
Gender: male

Re: Ban the Burqa
Reply #40 - Jun 23^rd, 2010 at 3:11pm

muso - Quote:

It's not about wearing a mask. At least be honest and say it like Sprint has. You object to the fact that they are Muslims.

This ban on 'masks' that you want to legislate. How are you going to enforce it? What about people of other religions, such as certain Christians who wear masks? What about halloween, or fancy dress parties? Should it be illegal to wear anything that masks your identity during street parades? - or would you need a special licence to wear a mask?

yes, it's because muslims do not assimilate.
in the most tolerant countries in europe they are banning minarets and burquas.
muslims are a problem.
they want to take our secular democracy and turn it into islam.
no other belief has the goal of taking over countries and making everyone subservient to their own belief.
it's not jast a religion, it is a legal, system, it is the cultural ways, it;s the clothes tyou wear, it's public beheadings, it's state control, it's what foot you put on the floor first every morning.

islam can bugger off.

/rant off/

Back to top

Modern Classic Right Wing

IP Logged

muso Gold Member Offline Posts: 13151 Gladstone, Queensland Gender:	Re: Ban the Burqa Reply #41 - Jun 23^rd, 2010 at 3:25pm Sprint - This one is for you. (Watch it until the end) http://www.fashionising.com/pictures/p--Liaison-Dangereuse-Lingerie-Commercial-4...
Back to top	1523 people like this. The remaining 7,134,765,234 do not IP Logged

Soren

Gold Member

Offline

Posts: 25654
Gender: male

Re: Ban the Burqa
Reply #42 - Jun 23^rd, 2010 at 3:32pm

muso wrote on Jun 23^rd, 2010 at 12:02pm:

What about people of other religions, such as certain Christians who wear masks? What about halloween, or fancy dress parties? Should it be illegal to wear anything that masks your identity during street parades? - or would you need a special licence to wear a mask?

What you are seeking to do is to restrict the freedom of people. In that respect, you're no better than the Reverend Fred W Nile (W for Wowser)

http://images.theglobeandmail.com/archives/RTGAM/images/20070406/wwip0407/SPAINH...

Are you serioiusly suggesting that you are unable to distinguish between the burqa/niqab and all the 'what abouts' that you have listed? You are really saying that to your mind a burqa/niqab is categorically the same thing as fancy dress?

How about some clear thinking instead of the reflexive equivocation? Don't kid yourself and us.

Back to top

IP Logged

muso

Gold Member

Offline

Posts: 13151
Gladstone, Queensland
Gender: male

Re: Ban the Burqa
Reply #43 - Jun 23^rd, 2010 at 3:36pm

Soren wrote on Jun 23^rd, 2010 at 3:32pm:

muso wrote on Jun 23^rd, 2010 at 12:02pm:

What about people of other religions, such as certain Christians who wear masks? What about halloween, or fancy dress parties? Should it be illegal to wear anything that masks your identity during street parades? - or would you need a special licence to wear a mask?

What you are seeking to do is to restrict the freedom of people. In that respect, you're no better than the Reverend Fred W Nile (W for Wowser)

http://images.theglobeandmail.com/archives/RTGAM/images/20070406/wwip0407/SPAINH...

Are you serioiusly suggesting that you are unable to distinguish between the burqa/niqab and all the 'what abouts' that you have listed? You are really saying that to your mind a burqa/niqab is categorically the same thing as fancy dress?

How about some clear thinking instead of the reflexive equivocation? Don't kid yourself and us.

That was in response to Mozz trying to kid us that it was just for security reasons (the mask argument). We all know the real reason.

Back to top

1523 people like this. The remaining 7,134,765,234 do not

IP Logged

gizmo_2655

Gold Member

Offline

Australian Politics

Posts: 16010
South West NSW
Gender: male

Re: Ban the Burqa
Reply #44 - Jun 23^rd, 2010 at 3:54pm

muso wrote on Jun 23^rd, 2010 at 3:25pm:

Sprint - This one is for you. (Watch it until the end)

http://www.fashionising.com/pictures/p--Liaison-Dangereuse-Lingerie-Commercial-4...

Nice one muso.....

I don't have a problem with the burqa, per se...but there do need to be changes made, for 'security' reasons......like there were with motorcycle helmets, balaclavas etc...

There are SOME places where wearing a face covering can be a problem, like banks, some shops and the RTA licence photos/driving a car.....

Back to top

"I just get sick of people who place a label on someone else with their own definition.

It's similar to a strawman fallacy"
Bobbythebat

IP Logged