Australian Politics Forum

muso Gold Member Offline Posts: 13151 Gladstone, Queensland Gender:	Re: Ban the Burqa Reply #15 - Jun 22^nd, 2010 at 4:32pm Bobby. wrote on Jun 22^nd, 2010 at 4:24pm: Am I allowed to wear my batman costume in public? No. It's disgusting wearing your underwear outside your pants.
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freediver Gold Member Online www.ozpolitic.com Posts: 47369 At my desk.	Re: Ban the Burqa Reply #16 - Jun 22^nd, 2010 at 5:42pm It has nothing to do with freedom of religion. It is about freedom to wear what you want. Do you really want to take that away?
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John S

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Re: Ban the Burqa
Reply #17 - Jun 22^nd, 2010 at 8:53pm

locutius wrote on Jun 22^nd, 2010 at 9:41am:

What does the Constitution actually state? Do you have it handy?

This is what I could quickly find.

http://www.dfat.gov.au/facts/religion.html

Quote:

Australia has no official state religion and people are free to practise any religion they choose, as long they obey the law. Australians are also free not to have a religion.

Australia is a predominantly Christian country, with around 64 per cent of all Australians identifying as Christians. However, most other major religious faiths are also practised, reflecting Australia’s culturally diverse society.

Religious freedom is safeguarded by section 116 of the Australian Constitution, which prohibits the federal government from making any law establishing any religion, imposing any religious observance, or prohibiting the free exercise of any religion. Individuals are free to express a diversity of views, as long as they do not incite religious hatred.

While I personally find the Burqa draconian and reflective of a misogynistic culture. I don't think it requires banning at a general level at this stage. I certainly think there are areas that are sensitive for security reasons where it should not be allowed. Areas where identification is a requirement for instance.

sorry locutius i took so long to get back to you, but this is what I found in the constitution

116. The Commonwealth shall not make any law for establishing any religion, or for imposing any religious observance, or for prohibiting the free exercise of any religion, and no religious test shall be required as a qualification for any office or public trust under the Commonwealth.

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Soren

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Re: Ban the Burqa
Reply #18 - Jun 22^nd, 2010 at 9:00pm

The garment should not be banned. However, obscuring one's identity by any means in public spaces, on religious grounds should be disallowed. Turn it around - if no religion is to be established, then the public space (public thoroughfare, school, offices, courts etc) are also not to be fragmented by claims of special religious privileges either.

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Bobby. Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 95298 Melbourne Gender:	Re: Ban the Burqa Reply #19 - Jun 22^nd, 2010 at 11:45pm muso wrote on Jun 22^nd, 2010 at 4:32pm: Bobby. wrote on Jun 22^nd, 2010 at 4:24pm: Am I allowed to wear my batman costume in public? No. It's disgusting wearing your underwear outside your pants. If they can wear a burqua then I can wear my batman costume with my underwear on the outside - fair is fair
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mozzaok Gold Member Offline OzPolitic Posts: 6741 Melbourne Gender:	Re: Ban the Burqa Reply #20 - Jun 23^rd, 2010 at 12:33am It is a bloody mask for christs sake. Nobody is demanding they wear micro bikinis and pole dance on the steps of the town hall, we are just asking that they show enough respect for the society they have chosen to be a part of, to meet it face to face.
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Bobby. Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 95298 Melbourne Gender:	Re: Ban the Burqa Reply #21 - Jun 23^rd, 2010 at 12:52am What about those guys who wear their thong beach wear like Borat? Is that acceptable in the main street?
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Soren

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Re: Ban the Burqa
Reply #22 - Jun 23^rd, 2010 at 9:03am

This just in:

Mr Nile introduced his private member's bill, seeking to ban the wearing of the burqa and other face veils in public, shortly after 8pm (AEST) on Tuesday.

[Greens first off the rank shouting 'racists' ]
...
Mr Nile has denied the bill is racist, saying his concern lay with issues of security and women's rights.

The bill has been adjourned until September 2010.

Watch the Christian Democratic vote increase in the outer suburbs at the March '11 state elections.

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Equitist

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Re: Ban the Burqa
Reply #23 - Jun 23^rd, 2010 at 9:46am

Soren wrote on Jun 23^rd, 2010 at 9:03am:

This just in:

Mr Nile introduced his private member's bill, seeking to ban the wearing of the burqa and other face veils in public, shortly after 8pm (AEST) on Tuesday.

[Greens first off the rank shouting 'racists' ]
...
Mr Nile has denied the bill is racist, saying his concern lay with issues of security and women's rights.

The bill has been adjourned until September 2010.

Watch the Christian Democratic vote increase in the outer suburbs at the March '11 state elections.

Forgive me if I'm wrong, but since when has Fred Nile ever been pro-women's rights!?

Has he been as vocal, about the right to CHOOSE what to do with their insides (i.e. contraception and abortion) as he is about what they wear on the outside of their bodies!?

Has he been as vocal, about the rights of women to receive equal incomes and Superannuation subsidies, to achieve financial independence and acquire equal wealth over the lifespan!?

If anyone can find any evidence of his staunch pro-women advocacy in the past, I'd be keen to see it...

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Equitist

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Re: Ban the Burqa
Reply #24 - Jun 23^rd, 2010 at 9:54am

Equitist wrote on Jun 23^rd, 2010 at 9:46am:

Soren wrote on Jun 23^rd, 2010 at 9:03am:

This just in:

Mr Nile introduced his private member's bill, seeking to ban the wearing of the burqa and other face veils in public, shortly after 8pm (AEST) on Tuesday.

[Greens first off the rank shouting 'racists' ]
...
Mr Nile has denied the bill is racist, saying his concern lay with issues of security and women's rights.

The bill has been adjourned until September 2010.

Watch the Christian Democratic vote increase in the outer suburbs at the March '11 state elections.

Forgive me if I'm wrong, but since when has Fred Nile ever been pro-women's rights!?

Has he been as vocal, about the right to CHOOSE what to do with their insides (i.e. contraception and abortion) as he is about what they wear on the outside of their bodies!?

Has he been as vocal, about the rights of women to receive equal incomes and Superannuation subsidies, to achieve financial independence and acquire equal wealth over the lifespan!?

If anyone can find any evidence of his staunch pro-women advocacy in the past, I'd be keen to see it...

FFS, Ol' Fred Nile has even actively campaigned against the rights of women who choose to escape dysfunctional and/or violent domestic situations (with their kids)...

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Sprintcyclist Gold Member Offline OzPolitic Posts: 39515 Gender:	Re: Ban the Burqa Reply #25 - Jun 23^rd, 2010 at 10:01am thy - you may well be rightere. I'm happy to give you the benefit of the doubt. however, your argument is a fallacy ie, fred niles history has no bearing on this topic. by proving the man "wrong" in the past, it has no bearing on this proposal
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locutius

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Re: Ban the Burqa
Reply #26 - Jun 23^rd, 2010 at 10:20am

Bobby. wrote on Jun 22^nd, 2010 at 11:45pm:

muso wrote on Jun 22^nd, 2010 at 4:32pm:

Bobby. wrote on Jun 22^nd, 2010 at 4:24pm:

Am I allowed to wear my batman costume in public?

No. It's disgusting wearing your underwear outside your pants. Tongue

If they can wear a burqua then I can wear my batman costume
with my underwear on the outside - fair is fair

Not only do I think Batman costumes are "way cool" it should be our National Dress. The new Monaro should be ..... you guessed it, a fully combat ready BatMobile.

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Equitist

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Re: Ban the Burqa
Reply #27 - Jun 23^rd, 2010 at 10:22am

Sprintcyclist wrote on Jun 23^rd, 2010 at 10:01am:

thy - you may well be rightere. I'm happy to give you the benefit of the doubt.

however, your argument is a fallacy
ie, fred niles history has no bearing on this topic.
by proving the man "wrong" in the past, it has no bearing on this proposal

On the contrary, based on previous form, Fred Nile's agenda is far more likely driven by religious bigotry against an opposing faith, than it is a concern for either 'security' or 'women's rights'!

If he has a problem with Muslims per se, then he should bloody well say so - rather than hide his true agenda under false pretenses which contradict his previous anti-women's rights pet projects...

PS I will make no secret that I despise Fred Nile - primarily on the grounds that he's a patently draconian and chauvanistic bigot! That said, I also point out that: I find many Muslim (and other religious and political) leaders equally repulsive for similar reasons; and I do NOT support the external imposition of dress rules on women, however, I support the right of individual women to CHOOSE to cover up - or not!

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Lamenting the shift in the Australian psyche, away from the egalitarian ideal of the fair-go - and the rise of short-sighted pollies, who worship the 'Growth Fairy' and seek to divide and conquer!

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Sprintcyclist Gold Member Offline OzPolitic Posts: 39515 Gender:	Re: Ban the Burqa Reply #28 - Jun 23^rd, 2010 at 10:41am thy - his agenda could well be driven by a religious bigotry against an opposing faith. that's immaterial to what his proposal should be judged on. the proposal has to be judged/voted on its own merits. play the ball, not the man yoou are aware of the study of fallacies ?
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locutius Gold Member Offline You can't fight in here! It's the War Room Posts: 1817 Queensland Gender:	Re: Ban the Burqa Reply #29 - Jun 23^rd, 2010 at 10:41am Soren wrote on Jun 23^rd, 2010 at 9:03am: This just in: Mr Nile introduced his private member's bill, seeking to ban the wearing of the burqa and other face veils in public, shortly after 8pm (AEST) on Tuesday. [Greens first off the rank shouting 'racists' ] ... . Hard to know who is worse!
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