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Plimer (Read 6065 times)
Grendel
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Re: Plimer
Reply #30 - Jul 10th, 2009 at 11:22am
 
Quote:
So go on then, Prof. What makes you sure that you’re right and all those scientists out there saying the opposite are wrong? ‘I’m a geologist. We geologists have always recognised that climate changes over time. Where we differ from a lot of people pushing AGW is in our understanding of scale. They’re only interested in the last 150 years. Our time frame is 4,567 million years. So what they’re doing is the equivalent of trying to extrapolate the plot of Casablanca from one tiny bit of the love scene. And you can’t. It doesn’t work.’

What Heaven And Earth sets out to do is restore a sense of scientific perspective to a debate which has been hijacked by ‘politicians, environmental activists and opportunists’. It points out, for example, that polar ice has been present on earth for less than 20 per cent of geological time; that extinctions of life are normal; that climate changes are cyclical and random; that the CO2 in the atmosphere — to which human activity contributes the tiniest fraction — is only 0.001 per cent of the total CO2 held in the oceans, surface rocks, air, soils and life; that CO2 is not a pollutant but a plant food; that the earth’s warmer periods — such as when the Romans grew grapes and citrus trees as far north as Hadrian’s Wall — were times of wealth and plenty.

All this is scientific fact — which is more than you can say for any of the computer models turning out doomsday scenarios about inexorably rising temperatures, sinking islands and collapsing ice shelves. Plimer doesn’t trust them because they seem to have little if any basis in observed reality.
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muso
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Re: Plimer
Reply #31 - Jul 10th, 2009 at 4:15pm
 
Grendel wrote on Jul 10th, 2009 at 11:22am:
Quote:
So go on then, Prof. What makes you sure that you’re right and all those scientists out there saying the opposite are wrong? ‘I’m a geologist. We geologists have always recognised that climate changes over time. Where we differ from a lot of people pushing AGW is in our understanding of scale. They’re only interested in the last 150 years. Our time frame is 4,567 million years. So what they’re doing is the equivalent of trying to extrapolate the plot of Casablanca from one tiny bit of the love scene. And you can’t. It doesn’t work.’


Irrelevant. The crux of this issue is the effects on the human population. We all know that mass extinctions have occurred over geological time. We're talking about the most rapid temperature change and the most rapid CO2 increase since all the time that human beings have existed on this planet.  


Quote:
What Heaven And Earth sets out to do is ........ It points out, for example, that polar ice has been present on earth for less than 20 per cent of geological time; that extinctions of life are normal; that climate changes are cyclical and random; that the CO2 in the atmosphere — to which human activity contributes the tiniest fraction — is only 0.001 per cent of the total CO2 held in the oceans, surface rocks, air, soils and life; that CO2 is not a pollutant but a plant food; that the earth’s warmer periods — such as when the Romans grew grapes and citrus trees as far north as Hadrian’s Wall — were times of wealth and plenty.

All this is scientific fact — which is more than you can say for any of the computer models turning out doomsday scenarios about inexorably rising temperatures, sinking islands and collapsing ice shelves. Plimer doesn’t trust them because they seem to have little if any basis in observed reality.
[/quote]

If I could post outside a proxy server I'd provide a more detailed rebuttal.

The Roman period was not warmer than today on a global basis.

This video addresses the issue better than I can. This is for the benefit of all those other than the 'faithful denialists'


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vrKfz8NjEzU

I don't know how anybody other than the faithful can accept anything that Plimer writes given that we're up to 30 pages of errors in "Heaven and Earth" and counting.

Check the link in the other thread. Some of the 'errors' (hmmmm - what do you call an error if it's deliberate again?) are so fundamental that it doesn't take a scientist to verify that they are wrong.
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« Last Edit: Jul 10th, 2009 at 4:23pm by muso »  

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Re: Plimer
Reply #32 - Jul 10th, 2009 at 4:32pm
 
This one is not bad on CO2 - for the non faithful only:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WPA-8A4zf2c&feature=channel
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« Last Edit: Jul 10th, 2009 at 5:56pm by muso »  

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Soren
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Re: Plimer
Reply #33 - Jul 10th, 2009 at 9:18pm
 
muso wrote on Jul 10th, 2009 at 4:32pm:
This one is not bad on CO2 - for the non faithful only:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WPA-8A4zf2c&feature=channel



Sorry, Muso, the (mental) tide turned about two years ago. Antropogenic climate change is what tree hugging was 20 years ago. ANd globa cooling 40 years ago. Nobody is listening any more.


Get rid of the pony tail, the goatie and the hemp jumper and get with the progam.
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Re: Plimer
Reply #34 - Jul 10th, 2009 at 10:55pm
 
muso wrote on Jul 10th, 2009 at 4:32pm:
This one is not bad on CO2 - for the non faithful only:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WPA-8A4zf2c&feature=channel



Keep peddling what you like but it is quiet irrelevant what you say exept may be for your income.

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עַם יִשְרָאֵל חַי
 
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muso
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Re: Plimer
Reply #35 - Jul 11th, 2009 at 7:24am
 
Soren wrote on Jul 10th, 2009 at 9:18pm:
muso wrote on Jul 10th, 2009 at 4:32pm:
This one is not bad on CO2 - for the non faithful only:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WPA-8A4zf2c&feature=channel



Sorry, Muso, the (mental) tide turned about two years ago. Antropogenic climate change is what tree hugging was 20 years ago. ANd globa cooling 40 years ago. Nobody is listening any more.


Get rid of the pony tail, the goatie and the hemp jumper and get with the progam.


If you think I'm a hippy, you're way off.  I'm about as conservative as they come. Actually virtually 'everybody' is listening outside of the blogosphere. Every country in the world is taking it seriously, and that includes Stephen Harper's Canada, and even the Czech Republic where smokers are welcome to die early and benefit the rest of the population by taking up fewer resources Smiley

http://www.ec.gc.ca/cc/default.asp?lang=En&n=9C2CF393-1

Every single scientific institude or academy of national or international standing is behind the moves that are already happening while you bury your head in the sand.

As with most issues, the man on the street is concerned with other more fundamental and personal issues.

So Soren, your ideas are more in the 'way out' or fringe category than mine. How's the pony tail, the goatie and the hemp sweater coming along?

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Soren
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Re: Plimer
Reply #36 - Jul 11th, 2009 at 8:51pm
 
Yes I must have been fooled once again.

I have noticed that everyone is TALKING about it. Looking from where you are sitting, obviously everyone is also implementing serious measures to counter antropogenic climate change. They even have webpages dedicated to climate change. That must cost, what, $40 a month?
From where I am sitting, however, it looks like it's not serious enough for anyone to actually do anything beyond the urgent webpages - other than speak in cliches, with a conderned voice, brow knotted.

It is all pretence to placate the likes of you.

And I am sure you are avery decent and agreeable man and I have no antipathy on a personal level.





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muso
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Re: Plimer
Reply #37 - Jul 14th, 2009 at 1:21pm
 
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